Hello members - my first posting, be kind... :) I am not a mechanic, just a hobbyist with limited knowledge but wanting to be more self-reliant. I've seen that this group is made up of many very talented, knowledgeable members. Thanks in advance for any help you can offer.
My issue: '87 Vanagon, updated the engine to a Subaru Legacy 1990-1994 model, end of 2022. ODB1. The engine has generally performed brilliantly compared to the older waterboxer (speed! climbing hills!). However, one show stopper has kept me from enjoying this performance increase. During cold weather (defined as anything colder than about 45 degrees), the engine will not start. It turns over effortlessly, but never "catches", for lack of a better description. As the temperature rises to somewhere above this, it starts easily.?
I have a video - about 197 mb - that demonstrates the problem. I think that is too large for this message system. Any way to get the video out to interested members?
I have checked the grounding, it appears solid. The original team who did the conversion - name withheld for now - recently changed the MAF sensor, put a different computer in, and checked fuel pressure, which was ok. No improvement. If anything it starts a bit rougher, much lower idle than before the changes. Perhaps they modified the idle system, or the computer is now affecting something else. I am not sure. Now they are thinking to check the crank shaft sensor. I will be taking it to them again (6 hour drive from my house!) next week for round two. It is REALLY hard to test as the company I am working with is in San Diego area which doesn't often get the cold weather to test against. And now spring is here. But the intention is to be able to visit more extreme areas (mountains, deserts, etc) and I simply can't take the vehicle into these areas currently.?
I am hoping to learn where we should be looking. My thought is that a sensor or two or three may be feeding the ECU incorrect or incomplete information after a cold night in the elements. Anywhere else we should be considering? Many thanks for any input you are willing to share.?
-Terry
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Re: code 24 . ECU is disabling some injectors to reduce RPM .
This may not apply, but on my 2.5l the engine?would seemingly cut? off and back on at about 65 mph forcing me to drive below that speed. Kept getting VSS codes. Finally found a VSS wire was out of position and rubbed through, bad signal affected the ECU. Repaired the wire. No more troubles.
Hello,
I had a very similar issue ("when I came off the hwy into a short exit - heavy downshifting/high rpm's) and it turned out to be the vehicle speed sensor was not aligned properly after I had some mechanical repairs performed.
I performed the electrical test (wiring harness, AICV resistance, etc), cleaned then replaced the AICV, purge value, performed a smoke test, etc, etc.
When I went under the vehicle, there was 2-3" gap between the vehicle speed sensor and the sensing ring on the cv flange.
After proper adjustment 1/16", the issue was resolved.
Best,
Todd N-haus
Great diagnostic work and write up Mark. If you are POSITIVE that the IAC is clean then I¡¯d suggest a wire by wire check of the harness wires connecting the IAC to the ECU. That and more driving cycles to see if it recurs.? I did have a vacuum leak on my 1999 Phase 1 2.5 which manifested itself with a wavering idle and failed smog checks (Oregon). Replaced every vacuum hose and a leaking Pressure Sources Switching Solenoid Valve and, Bobs your uncle, passed smog and idle settled down to expected behavior.? On Apr 5, 2023, at 11:43 PM, Dr Mark <mark@...> wrote:
?Hi . im slowly breaking in my newly restored drive train ( 1994 AT 2.2 LEGACY OBD1? donor in a 86 syncro? westy) and after a 150 mile stretch all i got for codes was the normal AT neutral codes that neve affected me for 100k . startup (without touching the gas pedal0 always goes to 2k and gradually drops to 1.125k . Ill admit i did a ton of low mileage runs and diagnostic reads using evo scan an B10 . anyway that long run was great and motor is strong .. today i did a 20 mile highway run and as i came off the exit i got a rough running engine and a flashing check engine signal , my first thought was i had a plug wire come loose . pulled over let everything cool down (happened to be at costco so .. hotdog) . getting really used to reading the codes so i did. saw a code 24 . used my handy dandy code sheet I have taped on to the ECU. . .? said? ECU turns off 1 or 2 injectors to reduce idle speed for certain RPMs, speed, and throttle?
OK explains rough running so i decide to wipe codes before opening the engine hatch. and voila no more code or rough running .. for me that's a worst case scenario . i donno what happened or why its "fixed" . got home no issues? I have mentioned weird throttle position sensor readings here before but that never got much traction & i get good readings from it . looking at my files i also see code 24? described as?
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- Air control valve or circuit (exc. Justy); Idle speed control solenoid valve (Justy)
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and?
Code 24
With the IAC code 24 thrown, the ECU will use what is called 'fuel cut' to reduce excessive engine RPM. It turns off 1 or 2 injectors to maintain idle speed, for certain values of RPM, vehicle speed, and throttle position. This can result in a rough idle, and poor idle exhaust emissions values.
Most often with the IAC code, the IAC valve just needs to be cleaned. These are the best resources I have found for IAC cleaning:
(Note: this last one is for the EJ20K engine, but has some good tips)
On some early EJ22s, there is an idle adjustment/air bypass screw on the intake body, which is used to adjust the idle air only to the point that the IAC duty cycle remains in range.
.now i know i will get the clean the IAC comment ..but i can tell you its clean .. can it be too clean ? i used california "organic" brake cleaner .. i can't see any way to lube anything . possibly just too old .. Probably 220k miles .? i am suspicious of vacuum hoses ..but its a guess. does anyone have a lived experience to share . thanks .? ?m?
--
Todd Niedringhaus
267.275.5780
?
|
Re: code 24 . ECU is disabling some injectors to reduce RPM .
Hello,
I had a very similar issue ("when I came off the hwy into a short exit - heavy downshifting/high rpm's) and it turned out to be the vehicle speed sensor was not aligned properly after I had some mechanical repairs performed.
I performed the electrical test (wiring harness, AICV resistance, etc), cleaned then replaced the AICV, purge value, performed a smoke test, etc, etc.
When I went under the vehicle, there was 2-3" gap between the vehicle speed sensor and the sensing ring on the cv flange.
After proper adjustment 1/16", the issue was resolved.
Best,
Todd N-haus
Great diagnostic work and write up Mark. If you are POSITIVE that the IAC is clean then I¡¯d suggest a wire by wire check of the harness wires connecting the IAC to the ECU. That and more driving cycles to see if it recurs.? I did have a vacuum leak on my 1999 Phase 1 2.5 which manifested itself with a wavering idle and failed smog checks (Oregon). Replaced every vacuum hose and a leaking Pressure Sources Switching Solenoid Valve and, Bobs your uncle, passed smog and idle settled down to expected behavior.? On Apr 5, 2023, at 11:43 PM, Dr Mark <mark@...> wrote:
?Hi . im slowly breaking in my newly restored drive train ( 1994 AT 2.2 LEGACY OBD1? donor in a 86 syncro? westy) and after a 150 mile stretch all i got for codes was the normal AT neutral codes that neve affected me for 100k . startup (without touching the gas pedal0 always goes to 2k and gradually drops to 1.125k . Ill admit i did a ton of low mileage runs and diagnostic reads using evo scan an B10 . anyway that long run was great and motor is strong .. today i did a 20 mile highway run and as i came off the exit i got a rough running engine and a flashing check engine signal , my first thought was i had a plug wire come loose . pulled over let everything cool down (happened to be at costco so .. hotdog) . getting really used to reading the codes so i did. saw a code 24 . used my handy dandy code sheet I have taped on to the ECU. . .? said? ECU turns off 1 or 2 injectors to reduce idle speed for certain RPMs, speed, and throttle?
OK explains rough running so i decide to wipe codes before opening the engine hatch. and voila no more code or rough running .. for me that's a worst case scenario . i donno what happened or why its "fixed" . got home no issues? I have mentioned weird throttle position sensor readings here before but that never got much traction & i get good readings from it . looking at my files i also see code 24? described as?
|
- Air control valve or circuit (exc. Justy); Idle speed control solenoid valve (Justy)
|
and?
Code 24
With the IAC code 24 thrown, the ECU will use what is called 'fuel cut' to reduce excessive engine RPM. It turns off 1 or 2 injectors to maintain idle speed, for certain values of RPM, vehicle speed, and throttle position. This can result in a rough idle, and poor idle exhaust emissions values.
Most often with the IAC code, the IAC valve just needs to be cleaned. These are the best resources I have found for IAC cleaning:
(Note: this last one is for the EJ20K engine, but has some good tips)
On some early EJ22s, there is an idle adjustment/air bypass screw on the intake body, which is used to adjust the idle air only to the point that the IAC duty cycle remains in range.
.now i know i will get the clean the IAC comment ..but i can tell you its clean .. can it be too clean ? i used california "organic" brake cleaner .. i can't see any way to lube anything . possibly just too old .. Probably 220k miles .? i am suspicious of vacuum hoses ..but its a guess. does anyone have a lived experience to share . thanks .? ?m?
-- Todd Niedringhaus
267.275.5780
?
|
Re: code 24 . ECU is disabling some injectors to reduce RPM .
Great diagnostic work and write up Mark. If you are POSITIVE that the IAC is clean then I¡¯d suggest a wire by wire check of the harness wires connecting the IAC to the ECU. That and more driving cycles to see if it recurs.? I did have a vacuum leak on my 1999 Phase 1 2.5 which manifested itself with a wavering idle and failed smog checks (Oregon). Replaced every vacuum hose and a leaking Pressure Sources Switching Solenoid Valve and, Bobs your uncle, passed smog and idle settled down to expected behavior.?
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On Apr 5, 2023, at 11:43 PM, Dr Mark <mark@...> wrote:
?Hi . im slowly breaking in my newly restored drive train ( 1994 AT 2.2 LEGACY OBD1? donor in a 86 syncro? westy) and after a 150 mile stretch all i got for codes was the normal AT neutral codes that neve affected me for 100k . startup (without touching the gas pedal0 always goes to 2k and gradually drops to 1.125k . Ill admit i did a ton of low mileage runs and diagnostic reads using evo scan an B10 . anyway that long run was great and motor is strong .. today i did a 20 mile highway run and as i came off the exit i got a rough running engine and a flashing check engine signal , my first thought was i had a plug wire come loose . pulled over let everything cool down (happened to be at costco so .. hotdog) . getting really used to reading the codes so i did. saw a code 24 . used my handy dandy code sheet I have taped on to the ECU. . .? said? ECU turns off 1 or 2 injectors to reduce idle speed for certain RPMs, speed, and throttle?
OK explains rough running so i decide to wipe codes before opening the engine hatch. and voila no more code or rough running .. for me that's a worst case scenario . i donno what happened or why its "fixed" . got home no issues? I have mentioned weird throttle position sensor readings here before but that never got much traction & i get good readings from it . looking at my files i also see code 24? described as?
|
- Air control valve or circuit (exc. Justy); Idle speed control solenoid valve (Justy)
|
and?
Code 24
With the IAC code 24 thrown, the ECU will use what is called 'fuel cut' to reduce excessive engine RPM. It turns off 1 or 2 injectors to maintain idle speed, for certain values of RPM, vehicle speed, and throttle position. This can result in a rough idle, and poor idle exhaust emissions values.
Most often with the IAC code, the IAC valve just needs to be cleaned. These are the best resources I have found for IAC cleaning:
(Note: this last one is for the EJ20K engine, but has some good tips)
On some early EJ22s, there is an idle adjustment/air bypass screw on the intake body, which is used to adjust the idle air only to the point that the IAC duty cycle remains in range.
.now i know i will get the clean the IAC comment ..but i can tell you its clean .. can it be too clean ? i used california "organic" brake cleaner .. i can't see any way to lube anything . possibly just too old .. Probably 220k miles .? i am suspicious of vacuum hoses ..but its a guess. does anyone have a lived experience to share . thanks .? ?m?
|
code 24 . ECU is disabling some injectors to reduce RPM .
Hi . im slowly breaking in my newly restored drive train ( 1994 AT 2.2 LEGACY OBD1? donor in a 86 syncro? westy) and after a 150 mile stretch all i got for codes was the normal AT neutral codes that neve affected me for 100k . startup (without touching the gas pedal0 always goes to 2k and gradually drops to 1.125k . Ill admit i did a ton of low mileage runs and diagnostic reads using evo scan an B10 . anyway that long run was great and motor is strong .. today i did a 20 mile highway run and as i came off the exit i got a rough running engine and a flashing check engine signal , my first thought was i had a plug wire come loose . pulled over let everything cool down (happened to be at costco so .. hotdog) . getting really used to reading the codes so i did. saw a code 24 . used my handy dandy code sheet I have taped on to the ECU. . .? said? ECU turns off 1 or 2 injectors to reduce idle speed for certain RPMs, speed, and throttle?
OK explains rough running so i decide to wipe codes before opening the engine hatch. and voila no more code or rough running .. for me that's a worst case scenario . i donno what happened or why its "fixed" . got home no issues? I have mentioned weird throttle position sensor readings here before but that never got much traction & i get good readings from it . looking at my files i also see code 24? described as?
|
- Air control valve or circuit (exc. Justy); Idle speed control solenoid valve (Justy)
|
and?
Code 24
With the IAC code 24 thrown, the ECU will use what is called 'fuel cut' to reduce excessive engine RPM. It turns off 1 or 2 injectors to maintain idle speed, for certain values of RPM, vehicle speed, and throttle position. This can result in a rough idle, and poor idle exhaust emissions values.
Most often with the IAC code, the IAC valve just needs to be cleaned. These are the best resources I have found for IAC cleaning:
(Note: this last one is for the EJ20K engine, but has some good tips)
On some early EJ22s, there is an idle adjustment/air bypass screw on the intake body, which is used to adjust the idle air only to the point that the IAC duty cycle remains in range.
.now i know i will get the clean the IAC comment ..but i can tell you its clean .. can it be too clean ? i used california "organic" brake cleaner .. i can't see any way to lube anything . possibly just too old .. Probably 220k miles .? i am suspicious of vacuum hoses ..but its a guess. does anyone have a lived experience to share . thanks .? ?m?
|
OK so (Brents and Waynes posts together...) on Vanagon Syncro : 1. attach bottom char can hose to air intake (atmosphere)? 2. and the top one to gas tank (vapors) ??
But what about the bottom fuel rail that I have had capped forever ? Or is that a split T hose to the gas tank vapors ?
Gas tank hose is not avail to see so Im guessing Ill have to fish it our from the top of the tank area.
? - -? Sean G
On Sunday, April 2, 2023 at 10:51:19 AM MST, Brent Weide <brent.weide@...> wrote:
Bottom hose on suby can runs back to suby gas tank. Bottom hose on VW can dumps into frame rail (atmosphere).?
On Apr 2, 2023, at 8:57 AM, SEAN GARRETT via groups.io <doit.outdoors@...> wrote: I have a syncro so am unsure about whats stated below. Ill research more y to o see if i can make sense of the description you give.?? My current char can has a bottom hose emptying into engine bay with no attachment, not sure where the top one goes¡ i will trace it today .
? - -? SeanG? On Mar 31, 2023, at 6:16 PM, Wayne Sitarz <wesitarz@...> wrote:
92-94 canister? One to tank, one to bottom fuel rail, one to air intake (instead of open to air at the rail)
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Bottom hose on suby can runs back to suby gas tank. Bottom hose on VW can dumps into frame rail (atmosphere).?
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On Apr 2, 2023, at 8:57 AM, SEAN GARRETT via groups.io <doit.outdoors@...> wrote:
? I have a syncro so am unsure about whats stated below. Ill research more y to o see if i can make sense of the description you give. ?
My current char can has a bottom hose emptying into engine bay with no attachment, not sure where the top one goes¡ i will trace it today . SeanG? On Mar 31, 2023, at 6:16 PM, Wayne Sitarz <wesitarz@...> wrote:
?92-94 canister? One to tank,one to bottom fuel rail,one to air intake (instead of open to air at the rail)
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I have a syncro so am unsure about whats stated below. Ill research more y to o see if i can make sense of the description you give. ?
My current char can has a bottom hose emptying into engine bay with no attachment, not sure where the top one goes¡ i will trace it today . SeanG?
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On Mar 31, 2023, at 6:16 PM, Wayne Sitarz <wesitarz@...> wrote:
?92-94 canister? One to tank,one to bottom fuel rail,one to air intake (instead of open to air at the rail)
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My syncros char can is still there but the lines have all been butchered. Ill try and get on brents site from a library computer and see his diagrams.
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On Apr 1, 2023, at 10:03 PM, Wayne Sitarz <wesitarz@...> wrote:
?From Brent's site:
<cannister.jpg> <canister1.jpg>
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Tsorel1600 do you have s diagram ?
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On Apr 1, 2023, at 7:29 AM, todd s via groups.io <tsorel1600@...> wrote:
?I reused the Vanagon canister, set up with the original routing, on my 3.3 conversion in California. It passes SMOG that way.
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I reused the Vanagon canister, set up with the original routing, on my 3.3 conversion in California. It passes SMOG that way.
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92-94 canister? One to tank,one to bottom fuel rail,one to air intake (instead of open to air at the rail)
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Terry Cline
Brent Weide
Dr Mark
