|
Looking for options to add collets to my very old SB 15x8 lathe.? I have seen the recent posts on using a backplate and ebay/amazon ER40 chuck.? Wondering what was the original taper in the tube of my SB model 37?? Is it morse or what I believe is SB propietary?? If morse, then I would need a drawbar and nut for the tube.? As close as I can tell the threads are 2-1/4x6, not 2-1/4x8 like the newer lathes.
I have multiple chucks and backplates if I want to go the ER40 route.? I am a beginner as to working with lathes.? Shop class 55 years ago.?
|
Feel for you, Bro. My first class was in 1973, and only a semester (or maybe a quarter) long. Finally got desperate in 2008, and bought a Harbor Freight 93212 7x10 Mini-Lathe. Same one they carry in the stores now. Not a terrible machine, really, but I was a terrible machinist, and couldn't figure out why. Until my wife got tired of listening to whine, and told me to take another class. Started the class in February, 2015, finished in May of 2022. Should normally take 8-9 months, if you go full-time. Long story short, I was a crappy machinist because I could not accurately measure anything. There is a sense of touch you need to get the caliper or micrometer consistently tight enough to get the correct reading. I lost that sometime between 1973 & 2008. Only took a few hours sitting in class with a set of Jo-blocks and my mikes and calipers, and I had it. I've got more than one lathe, though the 7x10 is now gone, and the one I've spent the most time on lately is an Atlas TH42, which now sports and ER32 collet chuck on it's 1-1/2"x8tpi spindle. MT3 taper.? I traded the 7x10 for a couple of Unimats, an SL1000 and a DB200, which are essentially the same machine. They can be configured as either a lathe or milling machine with minimal accessories. I've made an ER25 collet chuck for one, of them, though I haven't gotten to test it. Also, I made it on the big machines at school. A Clausing Colchester 13, that being the closest thing they had to my smaller machines.?
As a restoration project, there is a 1941 South Bend Heavy 10L sitting in the back of the shop, too. 2-1/4"-8tpi spindle on it. They have a proprietary insert that adapts to, in the case of mine, an MT3, IIRC. Might be MT4.? I've heard it said that the insert is about a Morse 4.5, but can't swear it's accurate. If you can get measurements of the taper, you can make all the inserts you want! Those inserts are not held in by a drawbar, BTW. I guess they're a self-holding taper just as the normal Morse Tapers are.?
The tailstock is definitely an MT3, though. Steve Wells' site has a lot of the old catalogs and machine forms, so you might be able to find out more about your machine there. If you have the serial number, you can get a copy of the serial number card from Grizzly. It will at least tell you how it was originally equipped, and when it was shipped to the first owner. Gets you the correct model number, too. Can be useful looking at those forms and catalogs.?
I've not tried for an ER40 yet, as none of my functional machines can make full use of that size collet. But someday!
HTH!
Bill in OKC
William R. Meyers, MSgt, USAF(Ret.)
Aphorisms to live by: Good judgement comes from experience. Experience comes from bad judgement.? SEMPER GUMBY!
On Saturday, February 11, 2023 at 08:53:28?PM CST, Rick Swineford <terrapinsystems@...> wrote:
Looking for options to add collets to my very old SB 15x8 lathe.? I have seen the recent posts on using a backplate and ebay/amazon ER40 chuck.? Wondering what was the original taper in the tube of my SB model 37?? Is it morse or what I believe is SB propietary?? If morse, then I would need a drawbar and nut for the tube.? As close as I can tell the threads are 2-1/4x6, not 2-1/4x8 like the newer lathes.
I have multiple chucks and backplates if I want to go the ER40 route.? I am a beginner as to working with lathes.? Shop class 55 years ago.?
|
??? ??? ???? One thing that helps me a ton when using a mic is if
I'm measuring loose parts I put my mic in my Panavise the one with
the heavy base . I'm better at measuring things with a mic when
their in a chuck on the lathe . If one half? is stable that helps
alot with the other half . While I don't have a HF mini lathe I
have a couple Craftsman 109 lathes , one missing a tailstock &
It was suggested since those lathes are pretty poor as a? lathe
that it would make a good rotary 5th axis on my milling machine .
That has opened up all sorts on possibilities ( at least in my
mind )? for some
future projects .
animal
On 2/11/2023 7:39 PM, Bill in OKC too
via groups.io wrote:
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
Feel for you, Bro. My first
class was in 1973, and only a semester (or maybe a quarter)
long. Finally got desperate in 2008, and bought a Harbor
Freight 93212 7x10 Mini-Lathe. Same one they carry in the
stores now. Not a terrible machine, really, but I was a
terrible machinist, and couldn't figure out why. Until my
wife got tired of listening to whine, and told me to take
another class. Started the class in February, 2015, finished
in May of 2022. Should normally take 8-9 months, if you go
full-time. Long story short, I was a crappy machinist
because I could not accurately measure anything. There is a
sense of touch you need to get the caliper or micrometer
consistently tight enough to get the correct reading. I lost
that sometime between 1973 & 2008. Only took a few hours
sitting in class with a set of Jo-blocks and my mikes and
calipers, and I had it. I've got more than one lathe, though
the 7x10 is now gone, and the one I've spent the most time
on lately is an Atlas TH42, which now sports and ER32 collet
chuck on it's 1-1/2"x8tpi spindle. MT3 taper.? I traded the
7x10 for a couple of Unimats, an SL1000 and a DB200, which
are essentially the same machine. They can be configured as
either a lathe or milling machine with minimal accessories.
I've made an ER25 collet chuck for one, of them, though I
haven't gotten to test it. Also, I made it on the big
machines at school. A Clausing Colchester 13, that being the
closest thing they had to my smaller machines.?
As a restoration project,
there is a 1941 South Bend Heavy 10L sitting in the back of
the shop, too. 2-1/4"-8tpi spindle on it. They have a
proprietary insert that adapts to, in the case of mine, an
MT3, IIRC. Might be MT4.? I've heard it said that the insert
is about a Morse 4.5, but can't swear it's accurate. If you
can get measurements of the taper, you can make all the
inserts you want! Those inserts are not held in by a
drawbar, BTW. I guess they're a self-holding taper just as
the normal Morse Tapers are.?
The tailstock is definitely
an MT3, though. Steve Wells' site has a lot of the old
catalogs and machine forms, so you might be able to find out
more about your machine there. If you have the serial
number, you can get a copy of the serial number card from
Grizzly. It will at least tell you how it was originally
equipped, and when it was shipped to the first owner. Gets
you the correct model number, too. Can be useful looking at
those forms and catalogs.?
I've not tried for an ER40
yet, as none of my functional machines can make full use of
that size collet. But someday!
HTH!
Bill in OKC
William R. Meyers, MSgt, USAF(Ret.)
|
??? ??? Verify your spindle threads & there is plans in the
files section to make a ER40 collet chuck . Nice thing a one piece
ER thread on collet chuck is it cut's down on the length of
stickout on the spindle & you can also feed stock through the
spindle , but make sure you have a outboard spyder if you have
long material .
??? ??? animal
On 2/11/2023 6:53 PM, Rick Swineford
wrote:
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
Looking for options to add collets to my very old SB 15x8 lathe.?
I have seen the recent posts on using a backplate and ebay/amazon
ER40 chuck.? Wondering what was the original taper in the tube of
my SB model 37?? Is it morse or what I believe is SB propietary??
If morse, then I would need a drawbar and nut for the tube.? As
close as I can tell the threads are 2-1/4x6, not 2-1/4x8 like the
newer lathes.
I have multiple chucks and backplates if I want to go the ER40
route.? I am a beginner as to working with lathes.? Shop class 55
years ago.?
|
I have the Grizzly serial number info.? I have attached the file. ?The thread is definitely 2-1/4x6.? I may have a nose insert.? My dad had purchased this back in the 70’s.? He had it torn down and he repainted it.? It was previously owned by a gunsmith.? Has tons of tooling that a lot of it we cannot identify.? I have a very good friend who is a machinist by trade and he is not sure what some of it is.? It sat for over 30 years at my dad’s in Ohio.? I moved it to Florida in early 2000’s.? I have done some very minor work with it, but it is currently buried.? I am renovating the shop and putting in storage cabinets.? I have a HF 7x12, a small Atlas (needs the drive section) and another small lathe unidentified with a lever operated tailstock, may have been used for turning starter armatures.? Again, renovating the shop so that I can get to the machines.? Also have an old B&S horizontal mill and an Atlas shaper, it too missing the drive section.? I retired 2 years ago and immediately got shoulder replacement which set me back for about 6 months.? Then family medical issues with pneumonia, RSV then covid, all last year.? Slowly catching up on normal household repairs and getting to the shop.? I have plenty of projects to keep me busy. Rick ?
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
From: [email protected] < [email protected]> On Behalf Of Bill in OKC too via groups.io Sent: Saturday, February 11, 2023 10:39 PM To: [email protected]Subject: Re: [SouthBendLathe] Collets for 1922 SB model 37 15" lathe ? Feel for you, Bro. My first class was in 1973, and only a semester (or maybe a quarter) long. Finally got desperate in 2008, and bought a Harbor Freight 93212 7x10 Mini-Lathe. Same one they carry in the stores now. Not a terrible machine, really, but I was a terrible machinist, and couldn't figure out why. Until my wife got tired of listening to whine, and told me to take another class. Started the class in February, 2015, finished in May of 2022. Should normally take 8-9 months, if you go full-time. Long story short, I was a crappy machinist because I could not accurately measure anything. There is a sense of touch you need to get the caliper or micrometer consistently tight enough to get the correct reading. I lost that sometime between 1973 & 2008. Only took a few hours sitting in class with a set of Jo-blocks and my mikes and calipers, and I had it. I've got more than one lathe, though the 7x10 is now gone, and the one I've spent the most time on lately is an Atlas TH42, which now sports and ER32 collet chuck on it's 1-1/2"x8tpi spindle. MT3 taper.? I traded the 7x10 for a couple of Unimats, an SL1000 and a DB200, which are essentially the same machine. They can be configured as either a lathe or milling machine with minimal accessories. I've made an ER25 collet chuck for one, of them, though I haven't gotten to test it. Also, I made it on the big machines at school. A Clausing Colchester 13, that being the closest thing they had to my smaller machines.? As a restoration project, there is a 1941 South Bend Heavy 10L sitting in the back of the shop, too. 2-1/4"-8tpi spindle on it. They have a proprietary insert that adapts to, in the case of mine, an MT3, IIRC. Might be MT4.? I've heard it said that the insert is about a Morse 4.5, but can't swear it's accurate. If you can get measurements of the taper, you can make all the inserts you want! Those inserts are not held in by a drawbar, BTW. I guess they're a self-holding taper just as the normal Morse Tapers are.? The tailstock is definitely an MT3, though. Steve Wells' site has a lot of the old catalogs and machine forms, so you might be able to find out more about your machine there. If you have the serial number, you can get a copy of the serial number card from Grizzly. It will at least tell you how it was originally equipped, and when it was shipped to the first owner. Gets you the correct model number, too. Can be useful looking at those forms and catalogs.? I've not tried for an ER40 yet, as none of my functional machines can make full use of that size collet. But someday! William R. Meyers, MSgt, USAF(Ret.) Good judgement comes from experience. Experience comes from bad judgement.? Improvise, Adapt, and Overcome.
Physics doesn't care about your schedule.
The only reason I know anything is because I've done it wrong enough times to START to know better ? Looking for options to add collets to my very old SB 15x8 lathe.? I have seen the recent posts on using a backplate and ebay/amazon ER40 chuck.? Wondering what was the original taper in the tube of my SB model 37?? Is it morse or what I believe is SB propietary?? If morse, then I would need a drawbar and nut for the tube.? As close as I can tell the threads are 2-1/4x6, not 2-1/4x8 like the newer lathes.
I have multiple chucks and backplates if I want to go the ER40 route.? I am a beginner as to working with lathes.? Shop class 55 years ago.?
|
That's an old one! And yeah, we seem to resemble each other a lot!
I have the SB Heavy 10L, restorable and needing LOTS of restoration. It spent about 5 years in a leaky barn before my friend Bill Hinkle realized he wouldn't likely live long enough to restore it, and sold it to me. I've also got the vintage 1946 Atlas TH42 I mentioned, and my brother insisted on buying me a 1997 vintage Smithy CB-1220XL 3in-1 machine. Paint is pretty good on it, but all the lube is now varnish. B÷n scrubbing it down to, hop to get it running again soon. Got one of John Dammeyer's Electronic Lead Screw controllers on the way for it. Also an Atlas MF horizontal mill, an HF mini-mill, a Lewis Shaper, a trio of drill presses, two of which actually work!?
Got a bad back and iffy knees, disabled wife, and my youngest child & SO moved in with us a couple months ago. Which displaced a couple cubic yards into my workshop area, a former back porch, from the former garage. None of us got Covid, but I lost my job over it, and instead of competing with all the kids I'd been working with I retired, too. Working on the house takes up the rest of my so-called spare time. Started pulling the water heater out yesterday before taking SWMBO out for an MRI and lunch. Pretty much wiped out the rest of the day.
William R. Meyers, MSgt, USAF(Ret.)
Aphorisms to live by: Good judgement comes from experience. Experience comes from bad judgement.? SEMPER GUMBY! Improvise, Adapt, and Overcome. Physics doesn't care about your schedule. The only reason I know anything is because I've done it wrong enough times to START to know better
On Sunday, February 12, 2023 at 06:22:40 AM CST, Rick Swineford <terrapinsystems@...> wrote:
I have the Grizzly serial number info. I have attached the file. The thread is definitely 2-1/4x6. I may have a nose insert. My dad had purchased this back in the 70’s. He had it torn down and he repainted it. It was previously owned by a gunsmith. Has tons of tooling that a lot of it we cannot identify. I have a very good friend who is a machinist by trade and he is not sure what some of it is. It sat for over 30 years at my dad’s in Ohio. I moved it to Florida in early 2000’s. I have done some very minor work with it, but it is currently buried. I am renovating the shop and putting in storage cabinets. I have a HF 7x12, a small Atlas (needs the drive section) and another small lathe unidentified with a lever operated tailstock, may have been used for turning starter armatures. Again, renovating the shop so that I can get to the machines. Also have an old B&S horizontal mill and an Atlas shaper, it too missing the drive section. I retired 2 years ago and immediately got shoulder replacement which set me back for about 6 months. Then family medical issues with pneumonia, RSV then covid, all last year. Slowly catching up on normal household repairs and getting to the shop. I have plenty of projects to keep me busy.
Rick
?
Sent: Saturday, February 11, 2023 10:39 PM Subject: Re: [SouthBendLathe] Collets for 1922 SB model 37 15" lathe
?
Feel for you, Bro. My first class was in 1973, and only a semester (or maybe a quarter) long. Finally got desperate in 2008, and bought a Harbor Freight 93212 7x10 Mini-Lathe. Same one they carry in the stores now. SNIP
|
Is there a plate with catalog no. 37 stamped on it? Why I ask is this is about the time period they changed the 15” base catalog number to 67. If your spindle is a 2-1/4-6tpi, it’s usually dated after Dec. of 1924, and the approximant time of the model change. The older model 37 usually had a 2-1/4-8tpi spindle. The taper is the same .602, the large end of the taper is 1.325. The 14-1/2-inch lathe prior to Sept. of 1948 had the same spindle thread and taper dimensions. They held a No. 3 MT center with a spindle adapter sleeve. They used a No. 4 SBL Collet with a collet adapter sleeve. Hope that helps, Steve ?
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
From: [email protected] < [email protected]> On Behalf Of Rick Swineford Sent: Saturday, February 11, 2023 9:53 PM To: [email protected]Subject: [SouthBendLathe] Collets for 1922 SB model 37 15" lathe ? Looking for options to add collets to my very old SB 15x8 lathe.? I have seen the recent posts on using a backplate and ebay/amazon ER40 chuck.? Wondering what was the original taper in the tube of my SB model 37?? Is it morse or what I believe is SB propietary?? If morse, then I would need a drawbar and nut for the tube.? As close as I can tell the threads are 2-1/4x6, not 2-1/4x8 like the newer lathes.
I have multiple chucks and backplates if I want to go the ER40 route.? I am a beginner as to working with lathes.? Shop class 55 years ago.?
|
It looks like there might be a mistake in the South Bend Spindle spec sheets I have. The real end date of the 2-1/4-8tpi spindle in the 15-inch might be 6-22-1922 instead of the listed 12-16-1924. They shortened the spindle nose on the 2-1/4-6 by a ?-inch and that was on 6-22-1922. And I see it is a model 37. So the older date looks correct, with the serial no. The bed serial no. appears to have been stamped in 1920, Interesting! ? Steve ?
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
From: [email protected] < [email protected]> On Behalf Of Rick Swineford Sent: Sunday, February 12, 2023 7:23 AM To: [email protected]Subject: Re: [SouthBendLathe] Collets for 1922 SB model 37 15" lathe ? I have the Grizzly serial number info.? I have attached the file. ?The thread is definitely 2-1/4x6.? I may have a nose insert.? My dad had purchased this back in the 70’s.? He had it torn down and he repainted it.? It was previously owned by a gunsmith.? Has tons of tooling that a lot of it we cannot identify.? I have a very good friend who is a machinist by trade and he is not sure what some of it is.? It sat for over 30 years at my dad’s in Ohio.? I moved it to Florida in early 2000’s.? I have done some very minor work with it, but it is currently buried.? I am renovating the shop and putting in storage cabinets.? I have a HF 7x12, a small Atlas (needs the drive section) and another small lathe unidentified with a lever operated tailstock, may have been used for turning starter armatures.? Again, renovating the shop so that I can get to the machines.? Also have an old B&S horizontal mill and an Atlas shaper, it too missing the drive section.? I retired 2 years ago and immediately got shoulder replacement which set me back for about 6 months.? Then family medical issues with pneumonia, RSV then covid, all last year.? Slowly catching up on normal household repairs and getting to the shop.? I have plenty of projects to keep me busy. Rick ? ? Feel for you, Bro. My first class was in 1973, and only a semester (or maybe a quarter) long. Finally got desperate in 2008, and bought a Harbor Freight 93212 7x10 Mini-Lathe. Same one they carry in the stores now. Not a terrible machine, really, but I was a terrible machinist, and couldn't figure out why. Until my wife got tired of listening to whine, and told me to take another class. Started the class in February, 2015, finished in May of 2022. Should normally take 8-9 months, if you go full-time. Long story short, I was a crappy machinist because I could not accurately measure anything. There is a sense of touch you need to get the caliper or micrometer consistently tight enough to get the correct reading. I lost that sometime between 1973 & 2008. Only took a few hours sitting in class with a set of Jo-blocks and my mikes and calipers, and I had it. I've got more than one lathe, though the 7x10 is now gone, and the one I've spent the most time on lately is an Atlas TH42, which now sports and ER32 collet chuck on it's 1-1/2"x8tpi spindle. MT3 taper.? I traded the 7x10 for a couple of Unimats, an SL1000 and a DB200, which are essentially the same machine. They can be configured as either a lathe or milling machine with minimal accessories. I've made an ER25 collet chuck for one, of them, though I haven't gotten to test it. Also, I made it on the big machines at school. A Clausing Colchester 13, that being the closest thing they had to my smaller machines.? As a restoration project, there is a 1941 South Bend Heavy 10L sitting in the back of the shop, too. 2-1/4"-8tpi spindle on it. They have a proprietary insert that adapts to, in the case of mine, an MT3, IIRC. Might be MT4.? I've heard it said that the insert is about a Morse 4.5, but can't swear it's accurate. If you can get measurements of the taper, you can make all the inserts you want! Those inserts are not held in by a drawbar, BTW. I guess they're a self-holding taper just as the normal Morse Tapers are.? The tailstock is definitely an MT3, though. Steve Wells' site has a lot of the old catalogs and machine forms, so you might be able to find out more about your machine there. If you have the serial number, you can get a copy of the serial number card from Grizzly. It will at least tell you how it was originally equipped, and when it was shipped to the first owner. Gets you the correct model number, too. Can be useful looking at those forms and catalogs.? I've not tried for an ER40 yet, as none of my functional machines can make full use of that size collet. But someday! William R. Meyers, MSgt, USAF(Ret.) Good judgement comes from experience. Experience comes from bad judgement.? Improvise, Adapt, and Overcome.
Physics doesn't care about your schedule.
The only reason I know anything is because I've done it wrong enough times to START to know better ? Looking for options to add collets to my very old SB 15x8 lathe.? I have seen the recent posts on using a backplate and ebay/amazon ER40 chuck.? Wondering what was the original taper in the tube of my SB model 37?? Is it morse or what I believe is SB propietary?? If morse, then I would need a drawbar and nut for the tube.? As close as I can tell the threads are 2-1/4x6, not 2-1/4x8 like the newer lathes.
I have multiple chucks and backplates if I want to go the ER40 route.? I am a beginner as to working with lathes.? Shop class 55 years ago.?
|
I have attached the ID info from Grizzly.? Mine is a manual gear change, not the quick change which I think is the 67.? There is no plate with 37, only the serial number. I will verify the 2-1/4x6 with a machinist friend.? I recently purchased some backplates with that dimension but have not tried to put them on the lathe.? It is currently buried.? I am renovating the shop and everything is piled up in front of it and all the accessories. Thank you for the info. Rick ?
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Show quoted text
From: [email protected] < [email protected]> On Behalf Of Steve Wells Sent: Sunday, February 12, 2023 12:44 PM To: [email protected]Subject: Re: [SouthBendLathe] Collets for 1922 SB model 37 15" lathe ? Is there a plate with catalog no. 37 stamped on it? Why I ask is this is about the time period they changed the 15” base catalog number to 67. If your spindle is a 2-1/4-6tpi, it’s usually dated after Dec. of 1924, and the approximant time of the model change. The older model 37 usually had a 2-1/4-8tpi spindle. The taper is the same .602, the large end of the taper is 1.325. The 14-1/2-inch lathe prior to Sept. of 1948 had the same spindle thread and taper dimensions. They held a No. 3 MT center with a spindle adapter sleeve They used a No. 4 SBL Collet with a collet adapter sleeve. Hope that helps, Steve ? ? Looking for options to add collets to my very old SB 15x8 lathe.? I have seen the recent posts on using a backplate and ebay/amazon ER40 chuck.? Wondering what was the original taper in the tube of my SB model 37?? Is it morse or what I believe is SB propietary?? If morse, then I would need a drawbar and nut for the tube.? As close as I can tell the threads are 2-1/4x6, not 2-1/4x8 like the newer lathes.
I have multiple chucks and backplates if I want to go the ER40 route.? I am a beginner as to working with lathes.? Shop class 55 years ago.?
|
I wish it was 2-1/4x8.? Much more plentiful accessories.? My friend will have to cut 2-1/4x6 threads for me when I need mods done like backplates for my recent chucks I purchased.? Beyond my expertise.? He sent me info on the 3-wire measuring system to verify my threads but haven’t been able to get close to the lathe to remove the chuck and try it.? I’d love an easy way to measure internal threads for this as I have another known chuck with the correct backplate that I could measure. Rick ?
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
From: [email protected] < [email protected]> On Behalf Of Steve Wells Sent: Sunday, February 12, 2023 1:06 PM To: [email protected]Subject: Re: [SouthBendLathe] Collets for 1922 SB model 37 15" lathe ? It looks like there might be a mistake in the South Bend Spindle spec sheets I have The real end date of the 2-1/4-8tpi spindle in the 15-inch might be 6-22-1922 instead of the listed 12-16-1924. They shortened the spindle nose on the 2-1/4-6 by a ?-inch and that was on 6-22-1922. And I see it is a model 37. So the older date looks correct, with the serial no. The bed serial no. appears to have been stamped in 1920, Interesting! ? Steve ? ? I have the Grizzly serial number info.? I have attached the file. ?The thread is definitely 2-1/4x6.? I may have a nose insert.? My dad had purchased this back in the 70’s? He had it torn down and he repainted it.? It was previously owned by a gunsmith.? Has tons of tooling that a lot of it we cannot identify.? I have a very good friend who is a machinist by trade and he is not sure what some of it is.? It sat for over 30 years at my dad’s in Ohio.? I moved it to Florida in early 2000’s.? I have done some very minor work with it, but it is currently buried.? I am renovating the shop and putting in storage cabinets.? I have a HF 7x12, a small Atlas (needs the drive section) and another small lathe unidentified with a lever operated tailstock, may have been used for turning starter armatures.? Again, renovating the shop so that I can get to the machines.? Also have an old B&S horizontal mill and an Atlas shaper, it too missing the drive section.? I retired 2 years ago and immediately got shoulder replacement which set me back for about 6 months.? Then family medical issues with pneumonia, RSV then covid, all last year.? Slowly catching up on normal household repairs and getting to the shop.? I have plenty of projects to keep me busy. Rick ? ? Feel for you, Bro. My first class was in 1973, and only a semester (or maybe a quarter) long. Finally got desperate in 2008, and bought a Harbor Freight 93212 7x10 Mini-Lathe. Same one they carry in the stores now. Not a terrible machine, really, but I was a terrible machinist, and couldn't figure out why. Until my wife got tired of listening to whine, and told me to take another class. Started the class in February, 2015, finished in May of 2022. Should normally take 8-9 months, if you go full-time. Long story short, I was a crappy machinist because I could not accurately measure anything. There is a sense of touch you need to get the caliper or micrometer consistently tight enough to get the correct reading. I lost that sometime between 1973 & 2008. Only took a few hours sitting in class with a set of Jo-blocks and my mikes and calipers, and I had it. I've got more than one lathe, though the 7x10 is now gone, and the one I've spent the most time on lately is an Atlas TH42, which now sports and ER32 collet chuck on it's 1-1/2"x8tpi spindle. MT3 taper.? I traded the 7x10 for a couple of Unimats, an SL1000 and a DB200, which are essentially the same machine. They can be configured as either a lathe or milling machine with minimal accessories. I've made an ER25 collet chuck for one, of them, though I haven't gotten to test it. Also, I made it on the big machines at school. A Clausing Colchester 13, that being the closest thing they had to my smaller machines.? As a restoration project, there is a 1941 South Bend Heavy 10L sitting in the back of the shop, too. 2-1/4"-8tpi spindle on it. They have a proprietary insert that adapts to, in the case of mine, an MT3, IIRC. Might be MT4.? I've heard it said that the insert is about a Morse 4.5, but can't swear it's accurate. If you can get measurements of the taper, you can make all the inserts you want! Those inserts are not held in by a drawbar, BTW. I guess they're a self-holding taper just as the normal Morse Tapers are.? The tailstock is definitely an MT3, though. Steve Wells' site has a lot of the old catalogs and machine forms, so you might be able to find out more about your machine there. If you have the serial number, you can get a copy of the serial number card from Grizzly. It will at least tell you how it was originally equipped, and when it was shipped to the first owner. Gets you the correct model number, too. Can be useful looking at those forms and catalogs.? I've not tried for an ER40 yet, as none of my functional machines can make full use of that size collet. But someday! William R. Meyers, MSgt, USAF(Ret.) Good judgement comes from experience Experience comes from bad judgement.? Improvise, Adapt, and Overcome.
Physics doesn't care about your schedule.
The only reason I know anything is because I've done it wrong enough times to START to know better ? Looking for options to add collets to my very old SB 15x8 lathe.? I have seen the recent posts on using a backplate and ebay/amazon ER40 chuck.? Wondering what was the original taper in the tube of my SB model 37?? Is it morse or what I believe is SB propietary?? If morse, then I would need a drawbar and nut for the tube.? As close as I can tell the threads are 2-1/4x6, not 2-1/4x8 like the newer lathes.
I have multiple chucks and backplates if I want to go the ER40 route.? I am a beginner as to working with lathes.? Shop class 55 years ago.?
|
Thank you Rick, Your right, it would be a 37, my brain is foggy…lol ? Steve ?
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From: [email protected] < [email protected]> On Behalf Of Rick Swineford Sent: Sunday, February 12, 2023 1:34 PM To: [email protected]Subject: Re: [SouthBendLathe] Collets for 1922 SB model 37 15" lathe ? I have attached the ID info from Grizzly.? Mine is a manual gear change, not the quick change which I think is the 67.? There is no plate with 37, only the serial number. I will verify the 2-1/4x6 with a machinist friend.? I recently purchased some backplates with that dimension but have not tried to put them on the lathe.? It is currently buried.? I am renovating the shop and everything is piled up in front of it and all the accessories. Thank you for the info. Rick ? ? Is there a plate with catalog no. 37 stamped on it? Why I ask is this is about the time period they changed the 15” base catalog number to 67. If your spindle is a 2-1/4-6tpi, it’s usually dated after Dec. of 1924, and the approximant time of the model change. The older model 37 usually had a 2-1/4-8tpi spindle. The taper is the same .602, the large end of the taper is 1.325. The 14-1/2-inch lathe prior to Sept. of 1948 had the same spindle thread and taper dimensions. They held a No. 3 MT center with a spindle adapter sleeve They used a No. 4 SBL Collet with a collet adapter sleeve. Hope that helps, Steve ? ? Looking for options to add collets to my very old SB 15x8 lathe.? I have seen the recent posts on using a backplate and ebay/amazon ER40 chuck.? Wondering what was the original taper in the tube of my SB model 37?? Is it morse or what I believe is SB propietary?? If morse, then I would need a drawbar and nut for the tube.? As close as I can tell the threads are 2-1/4x6, not 2-1/4x8 like the newer lathes.
I have multiple chucks and backplates if I want to go the ER40 route.? I am a beginner as to working with lathes.? Shop class 55 years ago.?
|
?This would get you the correct major diameter, and any decent ruler would let you count the number of threads per inch. Standard 1/8" rule, the top of the threads would align with the 8th inch graduations. If you don't get that alignment, and it is 6tpi, you'd get about 11/64th between peak.?
Sorry about the far too detailed and probably obvious explanation, but I've had to check some crazy threads on stuff I've worked on. The Japanese used some very odd threads on sewing machine hardware they made post-WWII, with odd fractional inch threads and metric lengths on the screws. ;)
Bill in OKC
William R. Meyers, MSgt, USAF(Ret.)
Aphorisms to live by: Good judgement comes from experience. Experience comes from bad judgement.? SEMPER GUMBY!
On Sunday, February 12, 2023 at 12:42:51?PM CST, Rick Swineford <terrapinsystems@...> wrote:
I wish it was 2-1/4x8.? Much more plentiful accessories.? My friend will have to cut 2-1/4x6 threads for me when I need mods done like backplates for my recent chucks I purchased.? Beyond my expertise.? He sent me info on the 3-wire measuring system to verify my threads but haven’t been able to get close to the lathe to remove the chuck and try it.? I’d love an easy way to measure internal threads for this as I have another known chuck with the correct backplate that I could measure. Rick ?
From: [email protected] < [email protected]> On Behalf Of Steve Wells Sent: Sunday, February 12, 2023 1:06 PM To: [email protected]Subject: Re: [SouthBendLathe] Collets for 1922 SB model 37 15" lathe ? It looks like there might be a mistake in the South Bend Spindle spec sheets I have The real end date of the 2-1/4-8tpi spindle in the 15-inch might be 6-22-1922 instead of the listed 12-16-1924. They shortened the spindle nose on the 2-1/4-6 by a ?-inch and that was on 6-22-1922. And I see it is a model 37. So the older date looks correct, with the serial no. The bed serial no. appears to have been stamped in 1920, Interesting! ? Steve ? ? I have the Grizzly serial number info.? I have attached the file. ?The thread is definitely 2-1/4x6.? I may have a nose insert.? My dad had purchased this back in the 70’s? He had it torn down and he repainted it.? It was previously owned by a gunsmith.? Has tons of tooling that a lot of it we cannot identify.? I have a very good friend who is a machinist by trade and he is not sure what some of it is.? It sat for over 30 years at my dad’s in Ohio.? I moved it to Florida in early 2000’s.? I have done some very minor work with it, but it is currently buried.? I am renovating the shop and putting in storage cabinets.? I have a HF 7x12, a small Atlas (needs the drive section) and another small lathe unidentified with a lever operated tailstock, may have been used for turning starter armatures.? Again, renovating the shop so that I can get to the machines.? Also have an old B&S horizontal mill and an Atlas shaper, it too missing the drive section.? I retired 2 years ago and immediately got shoulder replacement which set me back for about 6 months.? Then family medical issues with pneumonia, RSV then covid, all last year.? Slowly catching up on normal household repairs and getting to the shop.? I have plenty of projects to keep me busy. Rick ? ? Feel for you, Bro. My first class was in 1973, and only a semester (or maybe a quarter) long. Finally got desperate in 2008, and bought a Harbor Freight 93212 7x10 Mini-Lathe. Same one they carry in the stores now. Not a terrible machine, really, but I was a terrible machinist, and couldn't figure out why. Until my wife got tired of listening to whine, and told me to take another class. Started the class in February, 2015, finished in May of 2022. Should normally take 8-9 months, if you go full-time. Long story short, I was a crappy machinist because I could not accurately measure anything. There is a sense of touch you need to get the caliper or micrometer consistently tight enough to get the correct reading. I lost that sometime between 1973 & 2008. Only took a few hours sitting in class with a set of Jo-blocks and my mikes and calipers, and I had it. I've got more than one lathe, though the 7x10 is now gone, and the one I've spent the most time on lately is an Atlas TH42, which now sports and ER32 collet chuck on it's 1-1/2"x8tpi spindle. MT3 taper.? I traded the 7x10 for a couple of Unimats, an SL1000 and a DB200, which are essentially the same machine. They can be configured as either a lathe or milling machine with minimal accessories. I've made an ER25 collet chuck for one, of them, though I haven't gotten to test it. Also, I made it on the big machines at school. A Clausing Colchester 13, that being the closest thing they had to my smaller machines.? As a restoration project, there is a 1941 South Bend Heavy 10L sitting in the back of the shop, too. 2-1/4"-8tpi spindle on it. They have a proprietary insert that adapts to, in the case of mine, an MT3, IIRC. Might be MT4.? I've heard it said that the insert is about a Morse 4.5, but can't swear it's accurate. If you can get measurements of the taper, you can make all the inserts you want! Those inserts are not held in by a drawbar, BTW. I guess they're a self-holding taper just as the normal Morse Tapers are.? The tailstock is definitely an MT3, though. Steve Wells' site has a lot of the old catalogs and machine forms, so you might be able to find out more about your machine there. If you have the serial number, you can get a copy of the serial number card from Grizzly. It will at least tell you how it was originally equipped, and when it was shipped to the first owner. Gets you the correct model number, too. Can be useful looking at those forms and catalogs.? I've not tried for an ER40 yet, as none of my functional machines can make full use of that size collet. But someday! William R. Meyers, MSgt, USAF(Ret.) Good judgement comes from experience Experience comes from bad judgement.? Improvise, Adapt, and Overcome.
Physics doesn't care about your schedule.
The only reason I know anything is because I've done it wrong enough times to START to know better ? Looking for options to add collets to my very old SB 15x8 lathe.? I have seen the recent posts on using a backplate and ebay/amazon ER40 chuck.? Wondering what was the original taper in the tube of my SB model 37?? Is it morse or what I believe is SB propietary?? If morse, then I would need a drawbar and nut for the tube.? As close as I can tell the threads are 2-1/4x6, not 2-1/4x8 like the newer lathes.
I have multiple chucks and backplates if I want to go the ER40 route.? I am a beginner as to working with lathes.? Shop class 55 years ago.?
|
I can't speak for the 37, but my 1922 34 is morse 4 in the headstock (1"
ID bore) and morse 3 in the tailstock. I.e. not SB proprietary.
|
??? ??? A thread pitch gage ? This one goes down to 4 TPI
??? ???
??? ??? animal
On 2/12/2023 10:42 AM, Rick Swineford
wrote:
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
I wish it was 2-1/4x8.? Much more plentiful
accessories.? My friend will have to cut 2-1/4x6 threads for
me when I need mods done like backplates for my recent chucks
I purchased.? Beyond my expertise.? He sent me info on the
3-wire measuring system to verify my threads but haven’t been
able to get close to the lathe to remove the chuck and try
it.? I’d love an easy way to measure internal threads for this
as I have another known chuck with the correct backplate that
I could measure.
Rick
?
?
It looks like there might be a mistake in
the South Bend Spindle spec sheets I have
The real end date of the 2-1/4-8tpi spindle
in the 15-inch might be 6-22-1922 instead of the listed
12-16-1924.
They shortened the spindle nose on the
2-1/4-6 by a ?-inch and that was on 6-22-1922.
And I see it is a model 37. So the older
date looks correct, with the serial no.
The bed serial no. appears to have been
stamped in 1920, Interesting!
?
Steve
?
?
I have the Grizzly serial number info.? I
have attached the file. ?The thread is definitely 2-1/4x6.? I
may have a nose insert.? My dad had purchased this back in the
70’s? He had it torn down and he repainted it.? It was
previously owned by a gunsmith.? Has tons of tooling that a
lot of it we cannot identify.? I have a very good friend who
is a machinist by trade and he is not sure what some of it
is.? It sat for over 30 years at my dad’s in Ohio.? I moved it
to Florida in early 2000’s.? I have done some very minor work
with it, but it is currently buried.? I am renovating the shop
and putting in storage cabinets.? I have a HF 7x12, a small
Atlas (needs the drive section) and another small lathe
unidentified with a lever operated tailstock, may have been
used for turning starter armatures.? Again, renovating the
shop so that I can get to the machines.? Also have an old
B&S horizontal mill and an Atlas shaper, it too missing
the drive section.? I retired 2 years ago and immediately got
shoulder replacement which set me back for about 6 months.?
Then family medical issues with pneumonia, RSV then covid, all
last year.? Slowly catching up on normal household repairs and
getting to the shop.? I have plenty of projects to keep me
busy.
Rick
?
?
Feel
for you, Bro. My first class was in 1973, and only a
semester (or maybe a quarter) long. Finally got
desperate in 2008, and bought a Harbor Freight 93212
7x10 Mini-Lathe. Same one they carry in the stores
now. Not a terrible machine, really, but I was a
terrible machinist, and couldn't figure out why. Until
my wife got tired of listening to whine, and told me
to take another class. Started the class in February,
2015, finished in May of 2022. Should normally take
8-9 months, if you go full-time. Long story short, I
was a crappy machinist because I could not accurately
measure anything. There is a sense of touch you need
to get the caliper or micrometer consistently tight
enough to get the correct reading. I lost that
sometime between 1973 & 2008. Only took a few
hours sitting in class with a set of Jo-blocks and my
mikes and calipers, and I had it. I've got more than
one lathe, though the 7x10 is now gone, and the one
I've spent the most time on lately is an Atlas TH42,
which now sports and ER32 collet chuck on it's
1-1/2"x8tpi spindle. MT3 taper.? I traded the 7x10 for
a couple of Unimats, an SL1000 and a DB200, which are
essentially the same machine. They can be configured
as either a lathe or milling machine with minimal
accessories. I've made an ER25 collet chuck for one,
of them, though I haven't gotten to test it. Also, I
made it on the big machines at school. A Clausing
Colchester 13, that being the closest thing they had
to my smaller machines.?
As
a restoration project, there is a 1941 South Bend
Heavy 10L sitting in the back of the shop, too.
2-1/4"-8tpi spindle on it. They have a proprietary
insert that adapts to, in the case of mine, an MT3,
IIRC. Might be MT4.? I've heard it said that the
insert is about a Morse 4.5, but can't swear it's
accurate. If you can get measurements of the taper,
you can make all the inserts you want! Those inserts
are not held in by a drawbar, BTW. I guess they're a
self-holding taper just as the normal Morse Tapers
are.?
The
tailstock is definitely an MT3, though. Steve Wells'
site has a lot of the old catalogs and machine forms,
so you might be able to find out more about your
machine there. If you have the serial number, you can
get a copy of the serial number card from Grizzly. It
will at least tell you how it was originally equipped,
and when it was shipped to the first owner. Gets you
the correct model number, too. Can be useful looking
at those forms and catalogs.?
I've
not tried for an ER40 yet, as none of my functional
machines can make full use of that size collet. But
someday!
William
R. Meyers, MSgt, USAF(Ret.)
Good
judgement comes from experience Experience
comes from bad judgement.?
Improvise,
Adapt, and Overcome.
Physics doesn't care about your schedule.
The only reason I know anything is because
I've done it wrong enough times to START to
know better
?
Looking
for options to add collets to my very old SB 15x8
lathe.? I have seen the recent posts on using a
backplate and ebay/amazon ER40 chuck.? Wondering
what was the original taper in the tube of my SB
model 37?? Is it morse or what I believe is SB
propietary?? If morse, then I would need a drawbar
and nut for the tube.? As close as I can tell the
threads are 2-1/4x6, not 2-1/4x8 like the newer
lathes.
I have multiple chucks and backplates if I want to
go the ER40 route.? I am a beginner as to working
with lathes.? Shop class 55 years ago.?
|
Thank you Mike.? I have other thread gauges but had not found one that went that large of pitch.? It is ordered and on its way. Rick ?
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
From: [email protected] < [email protected]> On Behalf Of mike allen Sent: Sunday, February 12, 2023 5:15 PM To: [email protected]Subject: Re: [SouthBendLathe] Collets for 1922 SB model 37 15" lathe ? ??? ??? A thread pitch gage ? This one goes down to 4 TPI ??? ??? ??? ??? animal On 2/12/2023 10:42 AM, Rick Swineford wrote: I wish it was 2-1/4x8.? Much more plentiful accessories.? My friend will have to cut 2-1/4x6 threads for me when I need mods done like backplates for my recent chucks I purchased.? Beyond my expertise.? He sent me info on the 3-wire measuring system to verify my threads but haven’t been able to get close to the lathe to remove the chuck and try it.? I’d love an easy way to measure internal threads for this as I have another known chuck with the correct backplate that I could measure. Rick ? ? It looks like there might be a mistake in the South Bend Spindle spec sheets I have The real end date of the 2-1/4-8tpi spindle in the 15-inch might be 6-22-1922 instead of the listed 12-16-1924. They shortened the spindle nose on the 2-1/4-6 by a ?-inch and that was on 6-22-1922. And I see it is a model 37. So the older date looks correct, with the serial no. The bed serial no. appears to have been stamped in 1920, Interesting! ? Steve ? ? I have the Grizzly serial number info.? I have attached the file. ?The thread is definitely 2-1/4x6.? I may have a nose insert.? My dad had purchased this back in the 70’s? He had it torn down and he repainted it.? It was previously owned by a gunsmith.? Has tons of tooling that a lot of it we cannot identify.? I have a very good friend who is a machinist by trade and he is not sure what some of it is.? It sat for over 30 years at my dad’s in Ohio.? I moved it to Florida in early 2000’s.? I have done some very minor work with it, but it is currently buried.? I am renovating the shop and putting in storage cabinets.? I have a HF 7x12, a small Atlas (needs the drive section) and another small lathe unidentified with a lever operated tailstock, may have been used for turning starter armatures.? Again, renovating the shop so that I can get to the machines.? Also have an old B&S horizontal mill and an Atlas shaper, it too missing the drive section.? I retired 2 years ago and immediately got shoulder replacement which set me back for about 6 months.? Then family medical issues with pneumonia, RSV then covid, all last year.? Slowly catching up on normal household repairs and getting to the shop.? I have plenty of projects to keep me busy. Rick ? ? Feel for you, Bro. My first class was in 1973, and only a semester (or maybe a quarter) long. Finally got desperate in 2008, and bought a Harbor Freight 93212 7x10 Mini-Lathe. Same one they carry in the stores now. Not a terrible machine, really, but I was a terrible machinist, and couldn't figure out why. Until my wife got tired of listening to whine, and told me to take another class. Started the class in February, 2015, finished in May of 2022. Should normally take 8-9 months, if you go full-time. Long story short, I was a crappy machinist because I could not accurately measure anything. There is a sense of touch you need to get the caliper or micrometer consistently tight enough to get the correct reading. I lost that sometime between 1973 & 2008. Only took a few hours sitting in class with a set of Jo-blocks and my mikes and calipers, and I had it. I've got more than one lathe, though the 7x10 is now gone, and the one I've spent the most time on lately is an Atlas TH42, which now sports and ER32 collet chuck on it's 1-1/2"x8tpi spindle. MT3 taper.? I traded the 7x10 for a couple of Unimats, an SL1000 and a DB200, which are essentially the same machine. They can be configured as either a lathe or milling machine with minimal accessories. I've made an ER25 collet chuck for one, of them, though I haven't gotten to test it. Also, I made it on the big machines at school. A Clausing Colchester 13, that being the closest thing they had to my smaller machines.? As a restoration project, there is a 1941 South Bend Heavy 10L sitting in the back of the shop, too. 2-1/4"-8tpi spindle on it. They have a proprietary insert that adapts to, in the case of mine, an MT3, IIRC. Might be MT4.? I've heard it said that the insert is about a Morse 4.5, but can't swear it's accurate. If you can get measurements of the taper, you can make all the inserts you want! Those inserts are not held in by a drawbar, BTW. I guess they're a self-holding taper just as the normal Morse Tapers are.? The tailstock is definitely an MT3, though. Steve Wells' site has a lot of the old catalogs and machine forms, so you might be able to find out more about your machine there. If you have the serial number, you can get a copy of the serial number card from Grizzly. It will at least tell you how it was originally equipped, and when it was shipped to the first owner. Gets you the correct model number, too. Can be useful looking at those forms and catalogs.? I've not tried for an ER40 yet, as none of my functional machines can make full use of that size collet. But someday! William R. Meyers, MSgt, USAF(Ret.) Good judgement comes from experience Experience comes from bad judgement.? Improvise, Adapt, and Overcome.
Physics doesn't care about your schedule.
The only reason I know anything is because I've done it wrong enough times to START to know better ? Looking for options to add collets to my very old SB 15x8 lathe.? I have seen the recent posts on using a backplate and ebay/amazon ER40 chuck.? Wondering what was the original taper in the tube of my SB model 37?? Is it morse or what I believe is SB propietary?? If morse, then I would need a drawbar and nut for the tube.? As close as I can tell the threads are 2-1/4x6, not 2-1/4x8 like the newer lathes.
I have multiple chucks and backplates if I want to go the ER40 route.? I am a beginner as to working with lathes.? Shop class 55 years ago.?
|
Bill, that looks to me like a mic for measuring minor, not major diameters. An ordinary flat anvil jobbie does the major.
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
------ Original Message ------
From: "Bill in OKC too via groups.io" <wmrmeyers@...>
To: "[email protected]" <[email protected]>
Sent: Sunday, 12 Feb, 23 At 19:03
Subject: Re: [SouthBendLathe] Collets for 1922 SB model 37 15" lathe
This would get you the correct major diameter, and any decent ruler would let you count the number of threads per inch. Standard 1/8" rule, the top of the threads would align with the 8th inch graduations. If you don't get that alignment, and it is 6tpi, you'd get about 11/64th between peak.
Sorry about the far too detailed and probably obvious explanation, but I've had to check some crazy threads on stuff I've worked on. The Japanese used some very odd threads on sewing machine hardware they made post-WWII, with odd fractional inch threads and metric lengths on the screws. ;)
Bill in OKC
William R. Meyers, MSgt, USAF(Ret.)
Aphorisms to live by: Good judgement comes from experience. Experience comes from bad judgement. SEMPER GUMBY!
On Sunday, February 12, 2023 at 12:42:51?PM CST, Rick Swineford <terrapinsystems@...> wrote:
I wish it was 2-1/4x8. Much more plentiful accessories. My friend will have to cut 2-1/4x6 threads for me when I need mods done like backplates for my recent chucks I purchased. Beyond my expertise. He sent me info on the 3-wire measuring system to verify my threads but haven’t been able to get close to the lathe to remove the chuck and try it. I’d love an easy way to measure internal threads for this as I have another known chuck with the correct backplate that I could measure. Rick It looks like there might be a mistake in the South Bend Spindle spec sheets I have The real end date of the 2-1/4-8tpi spindle in the 15-inch might be 6-22-1922 instead of the listed 12-16-1924. They shortened the spindle nose on the 2-1/4-6 by a ?-inch and that was on 6-22-1922. And I see it is a model 37. So the older date looks correct, with the serial no. The bed serial no. appears to have been stamped in 1920, Interesting! Steve I have the Grizzly serial number info. I have attached the file. The thread is definitely 2-1/4x6. I may have a nose insert. My dad had purchased this back in the 70’s He had it torn down and he repainted it. It was previously owned by a gunsmith. Has tons of tooling that a lot of it we cannot identify. I have a very good friend who is a machinist by trade and he is not sure what some of it is. It sat for over 30 years at my dad’s in Ohio. I moved it to Florida in early 2000’s. I have done some very minor work with it, but it is currently buried. I am renovating the shop and putting in storage cabinets. I have a HF 7x12, a small Atlas (needs the drive section) and another small lathe unidentified with a lever operated tailstock, may have been used for turning starter armatures. Again, renovating the shop so that I can get to the machines. Also have an old B&S horizontal mill and an Atlas shaper, it too missing the drive section. I retired 2 years ago and immediately got shoulder replacement which set me back for about 6 months. Then family medical issues with pneumonia, RSV then covid, all last year. Slowly catching up on normal household repairs and getting to the shop. I have plenty of projects to keep me busy. Rick Feel for you, Bro. My first class was in 1973, and only a semester (or maybe a quarter) long. Finally got desperate in 2008, and bought a Harbor Freight 93212 7x10 Mini-Lathe. Same one they carry in the stores now. Not a terrible machine, really, but I was a terrible machinist, and couldn't figure out why. Until my wife got tired of listening to whine, and told me to take another class. Started the class in February, 2015, finished in May of 2022. Should normally take 8-9 months, if you go full-time. Long story short, I was a crappy machinist because I could not accurately measure anything. There is a sense of touch you need to get the caliper or micrometer consistently tight enough to get the correct reading. I lost that sometime between 1973 & 2008. Only took a few hours sitting in class with a set of Jo-blocks and my mikes and calipers, and I had it. I've got more than one lathe, though the 7x10 is now gone, and the one I've spent the most time on lately is an Atlas TH42, which now sports and ER32 collet chuck on it's 1-1/2"x8tpi spindle. MT3 taper. I traded the 7x10 for a couple of Unimats, an SL1000 and a DB200, which are essentially the same machine. They can be configured as either a lathe or milling machine with minimal accessories. I've made an ER25 collet chuck for one, of them, though I haven't gotten to test it. Also, I made it on the big machines at school. A Clausing Colchester 13, that being the closest thing they had to my smaller machines. As a restoration project, there is a 1941 South Bend Heavy 10L sitting in the back of the shop, too. 2-1/4"-8tpi spindle on it. They have a proprietary insert that adapts to, in the case of mine, an MT3, IIRC. Might be MT4. I've heard it said that the insert is about a Morse 4.5, but can't swear it's accurate. If you can get measurements of the taper, you can make all the inserts you want! Those inserts are not held in by a drawbar, BTW. I guess they're a self-holding taper just as the normal Morse Tapers are. The tailstock is definitely an MT3, though. Steve Wells' site has a lot of the old catalogs and machine forms, so you might be able to find out more about your machine there. If you have the serial number, you can get a copy of the serial number card from Grizzly. It will at least tell you how it was originally equipped, and when it was shipped to the first owner. Gets you the correct model number, too. Can be useful looking at those forms and catalogs. I've not tried for an ER40 yet, as none of my functional machines can make full use of that size collet. But someday! William R. Meyers, MSgt, USAF(Ret.) Good judgement comes from experience Experience comes from bad judgement. Improvise, Adapt, and Overcome.
Physics doesn't care about your schedule.
The only reason I know anything is because I've done it wrong enough times to START to know better Looking for options to add collets to my very old SB 15x8 lathe. I have seen the recent posts on using a backplate and ebay/amazon ER40 chuck. Wondering what was the original taper in the tube of my SB model 37? Is it morse or what I believe is SB propietary? If morse, then I would need a drawbar and nut for the tube. As close as I can tell the threads are 2-1/4x6, not 2-1/4x8 like the newer lathes.
I have multiple chucks and backplates if I want to go the ER40 route. I am a beginner as to working with lathes. Shop class 55 years ago.
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You're right!? My brain must not have been braining!
Bill in OKC
William R. Meyers, MSgt, USAF(Ret.)
Aphorisms to live by: Good judgement comes from experience. Experience comes from bad judgement.? SEMPER GUMBY!
On Monday, February 13, 2023 at 04:03:21?AM CST, eddie.draper@... via groups.io <eddie.draper@...> wrote:
Bill, that looks to me like a mic for measuring minor, not major diameters. An ordinary flat anvil jobbie does the major.
------ Original Message ------
From: "Bill in OKC too via groups.io" <wmrmeyers@...>
To: "[email protected]" <[email protected]>
Sent: Sunday, 12 Feb, 23 At 19:03
Subject: Re: [SouthBendLathe] Collets for 1922 SB model 37 15" lathe
This would get you the correct major diameter, and any decent ruler would let you count the number of threads per inch. Standard 1/8" rule, the top of the threads would align with the 8th inch graduations. If you don't get that alignment, and it is 6tpi, you'd get about 11/64th between peak.
Sorry about the far too detailed and probably obvious explanation, but I've had to check some crazy threads on stuff I've worked on. The Japanese used some very odd threads on sewing machine hardware they made post-WWII, with odd fractional inch threads and metric lengths on the screws. ;)
Bill in OKC
William R. Meyers, MSgt, USAF(Ret.)
Aphorisms to live by: Good judgement comes from experience. Experience comes from bad judgement. SEMPER GUMBY!
On Sunday, February 12, 2023 at 12:42:51?PM CST, Rick Swineford <terrapinsystems@...> wrote:
I wish it was 2-1/4x8. Much more plentiful accessories. My friend will have to cut 2-1/4x6 threads for me when I need mods done like backplates for my recent chucks I purchased. Beyond my expertise. He sent me info on the 3-wire measuring system to verify my threads but haven’t been able to get close to the lathe to remove the chuck and try it. I’d love an easy way to measure internal threads for this as I have another known chuck with the correct backplate that I could measure. Rick It looks like there might be a mistake in the South Bend Spindle spec sheets I have The real end date of the 2-1/4-8tpi spindle in the 15-inch might be 6-22-1922 instead of the listed 12-16-1924. They shortened the spindle nose on the 2-1/4-6 by a ?-inch and that was on 6-22-1922. And I see it is a model 37. So the older date looks correct, with the serial no. The bed serial no. appears to have been stamped in 1920, Interesting! Steve I have the Grizzly serial number info. I have attached the file. The thread is definitely 2-1/4x6. I may have a nose insert. My dad had purchased this back in the 70’s He had it torn down and he repainted it. It was previously owned by a gunsmith. Has tons of tooling that a lot of it we cannot identify. I have a very good friend who is a machinist by trade and he is not sure what some of it is. It sat for over 30 years at my dad’s in Ohio. I moved it to Florida in early 2000’s. I have done some very minor work with it, but it is currently buried. I am renovating the shop and putting in storage cabinets. I have a HF 7x12, a small Atlas (needs the drive section) and another small lathe unidentified with a lever operated tailstock, may have been used for turning starter armatures. Again, renovating the shop so that I can get to the machines. Also have an old B&S horizontal mill and an Atlas shaper, it too missing the drive section. I retired 2 years ago and immediately got shoulder replacement which set me back for about 6 months. Then family medical issues with pneumonia, RSV then covid, all last year. Slowly catching up on normal household repairs and getting to the shop. I have plenty of projects to keep me busy. Rick Feel for you, Bro. My first class was in 1973, and only a semester (or maybe a quarter) long. Finally got desperate in 2008, and bought a Harbor Freight 93212 7x10 Mini-Lathe. Same one they carry in the stores now. Not a terrible machine, really, but I was a terrible machinist, and couldn't figure out why. Until my wife got tired of listening to whine, and told me to take another class. Started the class in February, 2015, finished in May of 2022. Should normally take 8-9 months, if you go full-time. Long story short, I was a crappy machinist because I could not accurately measure anything. There is a sense of touch you need to get the caliper or micrometer consistently tight enough to get the correct reading. I lost that sometime between 1973 & 2008. Only took a few hours sitting in class with a set of Jo-blocks and my mikes and calipers, and I had it. I've got more than one lathe, though the 7x10 is now gone, and the one I've spent the most time on lately is an Atlas TH42, which now sports and ER32 collet chuck on it's 1-1/2"x8tpi spindle. MT3 taper. I traded the 7x10 for a couple of Unimats, an SL1000 and a DB200, which are essentially the same machine. They can be configured as either a lathe or milling machine with minimal accessories. I've made an ER25 collet chuck for one, of them, though I haven't gotten to test it. Also, I made it on the big machines at school. A Clausing Colchester 13, that being the closest thing they had to my smaller machines. As a restoration project, there is a 1941 South Bend Heavy 10L sitting in the back of the shop, too. 2-1/4"-8tpi spindle on it. They have a proprietary insert that adapts to, in the case of mine, an MT3, IIRC. Might be MT4. I've heard it said that the insert is about a Morse 4.5, but can't swear it's accurate. If you can get measurements of the taper, you can make all the inserts you want! Those inserts are not held in by a drawbar, BTW. I guess they're a self-holding taper just as the normal Morse Tapers are. The tailstock is definitely an MT3, though. Steve Wells' site has a lot of the old catalogs and machine forms, so you might be able to find out more about your machine there. If you have the serial number, you can get a copy of the serial number card from Grizzly. It will at least tell you how it was originally equipped, and when it was shipped to the first owner. Gets you the correct model number, too. Can be useful looking at those forms and catalogs. I've not tried for an ER40 yet, as none of my functional machines can make full use of that size collet. But someday! William R. Meyers, MSgt, USAF(Ret.) Good judgement comes from experience Experience comes from bad judgement. Improvise, Adapt, and Overcome.
Physics doesn't care about your schedule.
The only reason I know anything is because I've done it wrong enough times to START to know better Looking for options to add collets to my very old SB 15x8 lathe. I have seen the recent posts on using a backplate and ebay/amazon ER40 chuck. Wondering what was the original taper in the tube of my SB model 37? Is it morse or what I believe is SB propietary? If morse, then I would need a drawbar and nut for the tube. As close as I can tell the threads are 2-1/4x6, not 2-1/4x8 like the newer lathes.
I have multiple chucks and backplates if I want to go the ER40 route. I am a beginner as to working with lathes. Shop class 55 years ago.
|
If you plan on making or adapting a collet chuck, it does not matter what is your taper because the collet chucks thread on the spindle nose.?
Using the chucks with the Morse taper will extend far out in front of the spindle and introduce their own additional runout.
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I can't speak for the 37, but my 1922 34 is morse 4 in the headstock (1"
ID bore) and morse 3 in the tailstock.? I.e. not SB proprietary.
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See if this works for your lathe. There are collet chucks with all sorts of lathe attachment options.?
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Looking for options to add collets to my very old SB 15x8 lathe.? I have seen the recent posts on using a backplate and ebay/amazon ER40 chuck.? Wondering what was the original taper in the tube of my SB model 37?? Is it morse or what I believe is SB propietary??
If morse, then I would need a drawbar and nut for the tube.? As close as I can tell the threads are 2-1/4x6, not 2-1/4x8 like the newer lathes.
I have multiple chucks and backplates if I want to go the ER40 route.? I am a beginner as to working with lathes.? Shop class 55 years ago.?
|
I found this on ebay: ? ? Comes with a backplate that can bored out to my 2-1/4”.? It’s not the fine adjustable, but would save a lot of work. Rick
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From: [email protected] < [email protected]> On Behalf Of Andrei Sent: Monday, February 13, 2023 12:15 PM To: [email protected]Subject: Re: [SouthBendLathe] Collets for 1922 SB model 37 15" lathe ? See if this works for your lathe. There are collet chucks with all sorts of lathe attachment options.?
Looking for options to add collets to my very old SB 15x8 lathe.? I have seen the recent posts on using a backplate and ebay/amazon ER40 chuck.? Wondering what was the original taper in the tube of my SB model 37?? Is it morse or what I believe is SB propietary?? If morse, then I would need a drawbar and nut for the tube.? As close as I can tell the threads are 2-1/4x6, not 2-1/4x8 like the newer lathes.
I have multiple chucks and backplates if I want to go the ER40 route.? I am a beginner as to working with lathes.? Shop class 55 years ago.?
|
Rick Swineford
Bill in OKC too
