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Friends,
Attached are two pages from my copy of the famous Western Pacific Circular 157-E, a list of all the customers served by the WP, SN, TS, and their local interchange connections (SP, ATSF, etc.). The Circular was an internal document frequently updated. Although not dated, my copy is missing all references to the SN in Oakland, which was abandoned in February 1957. AFAIK, the original of my Circular, which I purchased from the CSRM Library, is the edition of the Circular to still exist. (I have seen copies of this document for sale by vendors, but they appear to have been made from the CSRM document, right down to the penciled "SN Yardmasters" notation on the cover.)
I have been looking for a digital Sanborn Fire Insurance Map of Yuba City to?match up these industries. The most recent I have found online is 1909, which doesn't show the SN yard area at all. Maps for 1927 exist, but the Library of Congress hasn't digitized them. I don't know if there are any later maps for YC.
The big problem with the SN and Sanborn maps is that after 1910 they did not show "trolley" trackage, even for major freight companies like the SN. Right-of-way is shown as a blank space, though any adjacent industrial buildings will be shown.?
Can anybody here contribute to this discussion with a map?
General questions?
Yours Aye,
Garth Groff ??
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My father collected AAA maps that showed all the right of ways I think until 1978 when they quit showing all railroads on the maps. AAA may still have outdated maps but otherwise I can see if can find a way to copy them. ?
Friends,
Attached are two pages from my copy of the famous Western Pacific Circular 157-E, a list of all the customers served by the WP, SN, TS, and their local interchange connections (SP, ATSF, etc.). The Circular was an internal document frequently updated. Although not dated, my copy is missing all references to the SN in Oakland, which was abandoned in February 1957. AFAIK, the original of my Circular, which I purchased from the CSRM Library, is the edition of the Circular to still exist. (I have seen copies of this document for sale by vendors, but they appear to have been made from the CSRM document, right down to the penciled "SN Yardmasters" notation on the cover.)
I have been looking for a digital Sanborn Fire Insurance Map of Yuba City to?match up these industries. The most recent I have found online is 1909, which doesn't show the SN yard area at all. Maps for 1927 exist, but the Library of Congress hasn't digitized them. I don't know if there are any later maps for YC.
The big problem with the SN and Sanborn maps is that after 1910 they did not show "trolley" trackage, even for major freight companies like the SN. Right-of-way is shown as a blank space, though any adjacent industrial buildings will be shown.?
Can anybody here contribute to this discussion with a map?
General questions?
Yours Aye,
Garth Groff ??
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Justin,
Ah, the problem with an AAA map is that it isn't going to show the industries the SN served, and depending on scale, only a single track line and junctions without spurs or sidings. If you find the maps, and they?show us anything useful, by all means feel free to share them.
Buildings and other features are what the Sanborn maps were all about, and they are in a scale large enough to show at least a footprint of the buildings, are color-coded to show building materials, and often have notations about features.
Attached is a partial sheet from Folsom in 1891 to show you what I mean. (This is the town where I grew up, and some of those buildings along "historic" Sutter Street are still there.) If this were an SN map, we wouldn't see the "trolley" tracks, but most likely would see all the associated buildings. If we had a Sanborn map of Yuba City, or several maps to compare, we could probably pinpoint many of the businesses, or earlier users, listed on Circular 167-E (not 157-E; I made a typo earlier).
Yours Aye,
?Garth Groff ??
My father collected AAA maps that showed all the right of ways I think until 1978 when they quit showing all railroads on the maps. AAA may still have outdated maps but otherwise I can see if can find a way to copy them. ? Friends,
Attached are two pages from my copy of the famous Western Pacific Circular 157-E, a list of all the customers served by the WP, SN, TS, and their local interchange connections (SP, ATSF, etc.). The Circular was an internal document frequently updated. Although not dated, my copy is missing all references to the SN in Oakland, which was abandoned in February 1957. AFAIK, the original of my Circular, which I purchased from the CSRM Library, is the edition of the Circular to still exist. (I have seen copies of this document for sale by vendors, but they appear to have been made from the CSRM document, right down to the penciled "SN Yardmasters" notation on the cover.)
I have been looking for a digital Sanborn Fire Insurance Map of Yuba City to?match up these industries. The most recent I have found online is 1909, which doesn't show the SN yard area at all. Maps for 1927 exist, but the Library of Congress hasn't digitized them. I don't know if there are any later maps for YC.
The big problem with the SN and Sanborn maps is that after 1910 they did not show "trolley" trackage, even for major freight companies like the SN. Right-of-way is shown as a blank space, though any adjacent industrial buildings will be shown.?
Can anybody here contribute to this discussion with a map?
General questions?
Yours Aye,
Garth Groff ??
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Garth
?
The Sutter County Museum has a document referencing the 1927 Sanborn with 1945 revisions ...
ref pages 17 - 18.?
?
-Someone- there had access to the whole Sanborn map...? '45 may be as close to '57 as you will get.
?
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Richard Brennan - San Leandro
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At 07:09 AM 10/27/2023 -0400, Garth Groff and Sally Sanford wrote:
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Show quoted text
<snip>
I have been looking for a digital Sanborn Fire Insurance Map of Yuba City to?match up these industries. The most recent I have found online is 1909, which doesn't show the SN yard area at all. Maps for 1927 exist, but the Library of Congress hasn't digitized them. I don't know if there are any later maps for YC.
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Richard,
Thanks for the tip. A 1945 map would be great, but unfortunately I couldn't get this site to load completely. I got the surrounds, but only a big gray box in the center of the screen.
Yours Aye,
Garth Groff ??
On Fri, Oct 27, 2023 at 1:43?PM Richard Brennan < rbrennan@...> wrote:
Garth
?
The Sutter County Museum has a document referencing the 1927 Sanborn with 1945 revisions ...
ref pages 17 - 18.?
?
-Someone- there had access to the whole Sanborn map...? '45 may be as close to '57 as you will get.
?
--------
Richard Brennan - San Leandro
?
?
At 07:09 AM 10/27/2023 -0400, Garth Groff and Sally Sanford wrote:
I have been looking for a digital Sanborn Fire Insurance Map of Yuba City to?match up these industries. The most recent I have found online is 1909, which doesn't show the SN yard area at all. Maps for 1927 exist, but the Library of Congress hasn't digitized them. I don't know if there are any later maps for YC.
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In case you haven't gotten any copies yet, I'm attaching the two Yuba City pages from the 157-E Circular.
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My apologies for posting the exact same pages of the circular. But I do have access to the 1927 Sanborn Maps. I'm attaching the Key Index Sheet from 1927 and the 1934 sheet with updates. I am happy to download and share whatever pages you wish.
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And here are screenshots of the two sheets, which might be more readable.
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toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
Friends,
Attached are two pages from my copy of the famous Western Pacific Circular 157-E, a list of all the customers served by the WP, SN, TS, and their local interchange connections (SP, ATSF, etc.). The Circular was an internal document frequently updated. Although not dated, my copy is missing all references to the SN in Oakland, which was abandoned in February 1957. AFAIK, the original of my Circular, which I purchased from the CSRM Library, is the edition of the Circular to still exist. (I have seen copies of this document for sale by vendors, but they appear to have been made from the CSRM document, right down to the penciled "SN Yardmasters" notation on the cover.)
I have been looking for a digital Sanborn Fire Insurance Map of Yuba City to?match up these industries. The most recent I have found online is 1909, which doesn't show the SN yard area at all. Maps for 1927 exist, but the Library of Congress hasn't digitized them. I don't know if there are any later maps for YC.
The big problem with the SN and Sanborn maps is that after 1910 they did not show "trolley" trackage, even for major freight companies like the SN. Right-of-way is shown as a blank space, though any adjacent industrial buildings will be shown.?
Can anybody here contribute to this discussion with a map?
General questions?
Yours Aye,
Garth Groff ??
|
George and Friends,
In looking at the updated index for 1934/1945, these map sheets might be the most useful. The various industries listed under "Specials" would be shown on sheets 8-15. At least some of these companies were still in business on the 1957 list, and others might be continuations of earlier customers under new names/ownership.
I would like to take these map sheets, ID the industries from 1957, and as much as possible draw in the missing SN track (the TIP sheets in my collection would help here, and I have some other resources). It would be a project that might take some time, but would be of immense interest to members of this group. And hey! I'm retired and have too much time on my hands.
We might be able to expand this project to other locations. Back in the 1990s I photographed all the industries at Sutter, both operating and derelict, and reconstructed the?missing track for a possible model railroad scene (a greatly expanded "Timesaver" track plan). I don't know if I still have the track diagram I made, but I could probably reconstruct?it and could share the research here. I certainly have the?photos. (Sutter turned out to be a largely seasonal station where all the industries except the lumber dealer would have similar traffic, so I dropped my plan to model it.)
Yours Aye,
Garth Groff ??
On Sun, Oct 29, 2023 at 6:48?PM George Pepper via <geomajors= [email protected]> wrote: And here are screenshots of the two sheets, which might be more readable.
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I'm attaching the pdfs of the requested sheets. I can upload screenshots if you can't use these files. I hope they are helpful! I didn't have time this morning to rename the maps.
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George,
Thank you very much for the scans. This is going to be an interesting project.
Yours Aye,
Garth Groff ??
On Mon, Oct 30, 2023 at 10:13?AM George Pepper via <geomajors= [email protected]> wrote: I'm attaching the pdfs of the requested sheets. I can upload screenshots if you can't use these files. I hope they are helpful! I didn't have time this morning to rename the maps.
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Richard Brennan
George Pepper
Philip Schmierer