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Hello Everyone,
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I have a 1990 425 that I bought about a year ago. I'm not new to sailing, but am new to boat ownership. I noticed that the bilge keeps getting wet so I wiped it dry and disconnected the bilge pump for several days. I vacuumed out the water this morning with a ShopVac to accurately measure the amount of water. I'm getting about 4 gallons per day. That's a heck of a lot.
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All that I have been able to see this far is that there is a small leak from around the Jabsco electric toilet, and a small puddle underneath the stuffing box. Neither of these seem to be very threatening at all, but there is also a trail of wetness coming from a hole that goes from the stuffing box area towards the aft vis-a-vis underneath the companion way step, into the Racor filter compartment which then leads to a larger hole that leads to ??. These are just trails of wet with very small amounts of actual water. It's hard for me to fathom that these trails would produce 4 gallons of water per day in the bilge.
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I am in Montego Bay, Jamaica, where there is no hope of reliable services nor a marine parts outlet. I feel stuck and need to get out of here. I'm hesitant to sail to a US port until I believe the boat is ready to safely sail for several days at a time.
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Thank you for reading this far and for any help and thoughts you can offer.
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Best regards,
Augustin
VE7OXS
SV Rhapsody S425
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Augustin, You should check to see if the water in the bilge is salt water or fresh water. ?If it is fresh water, do you have a lot of rain daily. I would check water coming down the mast. Check the mast collar for leaks or openings in the mast. ?You should also check your water tanks or hoses for leaks. ?
If it the water is salty, then it is a leak into the boat from the ocean. After you vacuum the water out of the bilge watch where the water is coming from and then trace it back to its origin.
Regards,
David Jaworski Sabre 362 Windwalker Severna Park, MD
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On Apr 22, 2025, at 9:40?AM, Augustin via groups.io <classical@...> wrote:
? Hello Everyone,
?
I have a 1990 425 that I bought about a year ago. I'm not new to sailing, but am new to boat ownership. I noticed that the bilge keeps getting wet so I wiped it dry and disconnected the bilge pump for several days. I vacuumed out the water this morning with a ShopVac to accurately measure the amount of water. I'm getting about 4 gallons per day. That's a heck of a lot.
?
All that I have been able to see this far is that there is a small leak from around the Jabsco electric toilet, and a small puddle underneath the stuffing box. Neither of these seem to be very threatening at all, but there is also a trail of wetness coming from a hole that goes from the stuffing box area towards the aft vis-a-vis underneath the companion way step, into the Racor filter compartment which then leads to a larger hole that leads to ??. These are just trails of wet with very small amounts of actual water. It's hard for me to fathom that these trails would produce 4 gallons of water per day in the bilge.
?
I am in Montego Bay, Jamaica, where there is no hope of reliable services nor a marine parts outlet. I feel stuck and need to get out of here. I'm hesitant to sail to a US port until I believe the boat is ready to safely sail for several days at a time.
?
Thank you for reading this far and for any help and thoughts you can offer.
?
Best regards,
Augustin
VE7OXS
SV Rhapsody S425
?
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Suggest you also check the rudder stuffing box for leaking. Also all the thru hull fittings. Wrap with toilet tissue. Come back in 24 hours. Sabres also take on a lot of water down the mast in rain storms.? Len Bertaux? S38mkii
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On Apr 22, 2025, at 10:32?AM, David Jaworski via groups.io <djjaworski@...> wrote:
? Augustin, You should check to see if the water in the bilge is salt water or fresh water. ?If it is fresh water, do you have a lot of rain daily. I would check water coming down the mast. Check the mast collar for leaks or openings in the mast. ?You should also check your water tanks or hoses for leaks. ?
If it the water is salty, then it is a leak into the boat from the ocean. After you vacuum the water out of the bilge watch where the water is coming from and then trace it back to its origin.
Regards,
David Jaworski Sabre 362 Windwalker Severna Park, MD On Apr 22, 2025, at 9:40?AM, Augustin via groups.io <classical@...> wrote:
? Hello Everyone,
?
I have a 1990 425 that I bought about a year ago. I'm not new to sailing, but am new to boat ownership. I noticed that the bilge keeps getting wet so I wiped it dry and disconnected the bilge pump for several days. I vacuumed out the water this morning with a ShopVac to accurately measure the amount of water. I'm getting about 4 gallons per day. That's a heck of a lot.
?
All that I have been able to see this far is that there is a small leak from around the Jabsco electric toilet, and a small puddle underneath the stuffing box. Neither of these seem to be very threatening at all, but there is also a trail of wetness coming from a hole that goes from the stuffing box area towards the aft vis-a-vis underneath the companion way step, into the Racor filter compartment which then leads to a larger hole that leads to ??. These are just trails of wet with very small amounts of actual water. It's hard for me to fathom that these trails would produce 4 gallons of water per day in the bilge.
?
I am in Montego Bay, Jamaica, where there is no hope of reliable services nor a marine parts outlet. I feel stuck and need to get out of here. I'm hesitant to sail to a US port until I believe the boat is ready to safely sail for several days at a time.
?
Thank you for reading this far and for any help and thoughts you can offer.
?
Best regards,
Augustin
VE7OXS
SV Rhapsody S425
?
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The question if this is fresh or salt water is crucial. I had a water tank leak and recognized it immediately by the smell of water treatment I use. Sabres like to leak rain water, but 4 gallons a day is A LOT. Also, check your keel bolts (if it's salt water). I had a keel bolt leak once - its an easy fix.?
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Thanks to all. The water is salt. The bilge has several compartments. The forward ones generally don't get water until the one below the engine reaches a certain level. This tells me it's not any of the forward keel bolts since the engine compartments fills first. However, there are some bolts there too so those might be a source. But there is also water aft of the engine, aft of the drive shaft stuffing box, and aft of the racor filter. I'm trying to make my way back there.
There has not been any rain here since I wiped the bilge 100% dry last week. I saw puddling around the mast once last year after a heavy rain, but a waterproof wrap around mast boot seems to have corrected that. I drained my water tanks for cleaning during these past few days, so I doubt it's a leaky tank issue, but I'm not dismissing that such an problem might exist and will be checked later. Once I resolve the seawater leak I will use the water pressure to test the tanks.
I also don't think it's a fuel tank leak because I'm not detecting any diesel and such a large amount would be obvious. I am now standing in the aft cabin and as I work my way further aft I will be lifting the bunk boards to look at AirCon connections, watermaker connections, then scupper connections and rudder stuffing box. Would there be anything else back there to check?
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Thanks again.
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I had some salt water intake (extremely small but a contributor) through the strut bolts. ?The ?32 nd of an inch play on the strut caused a hairline crack in the epoxy filler covering where the strut bolts to the hull. ?Raw water impeller leak? ?Through hulls leak? Transducer leak? ?Good luck!
Dave Gerhardt Serenade 1983 S 34-1 #184
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Thanks to all. The water is salt. The bilge has several compartments. The forward ones generally don't get water until the one below the engine reaches a certain level. This tells me it's not any of the forward keel bolts since the engine compartments fills first. However, there are some bolts there so those might be a source, but there is also water aft of the engine, aft of the drive shaft stuffing box, and aft of the racor filter. I'm trying to make my way back there.
There has not been any rain here since I wiped the bilge 100% dry last week. I saw puddling around the mast once last year after a heavy rain, but a waterproof wrap around mast boot seems to have corrected that. I drained my water tanks for cleaning during these past few days, so I doubt it's a leaky tank issue, but I'm not dismissing that such an problem might exist to be checked later. Once I resolve the seawater leak I will use water pressure to test the tanks.
I also don't think it's a fuel tank leak because I'm not detecting and diesel and such a large amount would be obvious. I am now standing in the aft cabin and as I work my way further aft I will be lifting the bunk boards to look at AirCon connections, watermaker connections, then scupper connections and rudder stuffing box. Would there be anything else back there to check?
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Thanks again.
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Hi David. I replaced the impeller last year and should still be like new. I don't know 'strut bolt.' Is that the chain plate?
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Augustin, the strut, which is commonly made of bronze, connects the prop shaft to the hull.
Dave G
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[Edited Message Follows]
Hi David. I replaced the impeller last year and should still be like new. I don't know 'strut bolt.' Is that the chain plate?
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Also check the wet exhaust muffler box/tank.
Franz Alvarez
SV Tranquility - S38MKII
Mamaroneck, NY?
Get
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[Edited Message Follows]
Thanks to all. The water is salt. The bilge has several compartments. The forward ones generally don't get water until the one below the engine reaches a certain level. This tells me it's not any of the forward keel bolts since the engine compartments
fills first. However, there are some bolts there too so those might be a source. But there is also water aft of the engine, aft of the drive shaft stuffing box, and aft of the racor filter. I'm trying to make my way back there.
There has not been any rain here since I wiped the bilge 100% dry last week. I saw puddling around the mast once last year after a heavy rain, but a waterproof wrap around mast boot seems to have corrected that. I drained my water tanks for cleaning during
these past few days, so I doubt it's a leaky tank issue, but I'm not dismissing that such an problem might exist and will be checked later. Once I resolve the seawater leak I will use the water pressure to test the tanks.
I also don't think it's a fuel tank leak because I'm not detecting any diesel and such a large amount would be obvious. I am now standing in the aft cabin and as I work my way further aft I will be lifting the bunk boards to look at AirCon connections, watermaker
connections, then scupper connections and rudder stuffing box. Would there be anything else back there to check?
?
Thanks again.
-- Franz Alvarez S/V Tranquility - S38MKII
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I had a bit of work done around the engine last week and everything looked ok. The only leakage I get is for the first several minutes when I start the engine there is a filter on top of the riser elbow valve that leaks seawater. This only amounts to a few ounces and only occurs when the engine is running. I also had the DC refrigeration compressor resealed and charged so there was some fiddling done in the? engine compartment and everything looked good.
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That should be the breather element - basically a check valve. Make sure that it’s working properly. That $10 part can total your engine according to Westerbeke. There should be no leakage.
Get
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I had a bit of work done around the engine last week and everything looked ok. The only leakage I get is for the first several minutes when I start the engine there is a filter on top of the riser elbow valve that leaks seawater. This only amounts to a
few ounces and only occurs when the engine is running. I also had the DC refrigeration compressor resealed and charged so there was some fiddling done in the? engine compartment and everything looked good.
-- Franz Alvarez S/V Tranquility - S38MKII
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Also check the wet exhaust muffler box/tank.
Franz Alvarez
SV Tranquility - S38MKII
Mamaroneck, NY?
Get
[Edited Message Follows]
Thanks to all. The water is salt. The bilge has several compartments. The forward ones generally don't get water until the one below the engine reaches a certain level. This tells me it's not any of the forward keel bolts since the engine compartments
fills first. However, there are some bolts there too so those might be a source. But there is also water aft of the engine, aft of the drive shaft stuffing box, and aft of the racor filter. I'm trying to make my way back there.
There has not been any rain here since I wiped the bilge 100% dry last week. I saw puddling around the mast once last year after a heavy rain, but a waterproof wrap around mast boot seems to have corrected that. I drained my water tanks for cleaning during
these past few days, so I doubt it's a leaky tank issue, but I'm not dismissing that such an problem might exist and will be checked later. Once I resolve the seawater leak I will use the water pressure to test the tanks.
I also don't think it's a fuel tank leak because I'm not detecting any diesel and such a large amount would be obvious. I am now standing in the aft cabin and as I work my way further aft I will be lifting the bunk boards to look at AirCon connections, watermaker
connections, then scupper connections and rudder stuffing box. Would there be anything else back there to check?
?
Thanks again.
-- Franz Alvarez S/V Tranquility - S38MKII
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One way to discover is to use chalk, kids chalk.? Draw lines, circles, around any spot that you can see.??
Edward P. Flanagan
585-330-6154
The question if this is fresh or salt water is crucial. I had a water tank leak and recognized it immediately by the smell of water treatment I use. Sabres like to leak rain water, but 4 gallons a day is A LOT. Also, check your keel bolts (if it's salt water). I had a keel bolt leak once - its an easy fix.?
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Augustin -
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As mentioned here, if it is salt water in the bilge you have the following sources to consider:
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- All Seacocks
- Heat exchanger - end caps can crack and gaskets can leak, also there is a drain valve and the anode that can leak
- Raw water feed to the raw water pump and heat exchanger
- Muffler housing
- Wet exhaust hose
- Prop shaft/stuffing box
- Prop shaft mounting bolts
- Rudder shaft stuffing box
- Do you draw sea water for your toilet? ?If so check all of those connections.
- Speed/depth sensor thru-hulls
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With the amount of water you are describing and the difficulty to find the source, I would look closely at your rudder shaft stuffing box. ?Last season my S32 was firing the bilge pump under sail every 30 minutes or so, as the rudder post stuffing box flax packing had failed. ?The leak was not obvious and it drive me nuts trying to find it, the path from the stuffing box done the center of the boat is difficult to trace to say the least. ?I dropped the rudder in the fall to service everything and it is all sealed up and ready for this year. ?
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The next source I would look at is the heat exchanger. ?Since the raw water system post the raw water pump is pressurized, even the smallest leak can equate to large amounts of water.
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Lastly, look at your stuffing box for your prop shaft. ?When my boat was docked, my stuffing box either slightly dripped or did not leak at all. ?When underway, however, it ran like a faucet. ?Replaced the packing with Gore-GFO packing and no more leaks.
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I hope this helps and you find your leak.
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--
Tim Dokken
1985 Sabre 32 #59
Bayfield, WI
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Hi Frank. thank you! I have been concerned about it since I bought the boat. Because I noticed that it only leaked for a few minutes then stopped, I decided it was not so serious. However, I did look around for a new elbow and couldn't find one. I have the W46 (2nd version). Do you happen to know where I can get the whole elbow/valve ensemble? I'm pretty sure the elbow on now is not OEM.
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Augustin
SV Rhapsody S425
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David G., thank you for the picture. I would love to take a look below the waterline, but here in Montego Bay, there is close to zero services including no haul out. To do that I would need to get a cruising permit to motor 100 miles (24hrs) to Port Antonio where they have a travel lift and chocks, but that's all. No service! That is the bigger part of my problem and why I need to prove that the boat is seaworthy so that I can sail to Panama or, preferably, Eastern US for haul out and service.
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And the nearest chandlery (if you can call it that) is also 100 miles away and ridiculously expensive. I paid $600 USD for a new motor for the Jabsco toilet. This is a frustrating situation that I find myself in.
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Dave G. The exhaust elbow seems to be dry, but it is a concern because it doesn't look like any elbow I can see on any W46 pictures. I would like to look into this further.
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Hi Tim. Thank you for the check list.
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- All Seacocks.
They are all seized in the open position. I want to get the boat out of the water to free them, but I don't think they are the source of the leak. They seem dry enough.
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- Heat exchanger - end caps can crack and gaskets can leak, also there is a drain valve and the anode that can leak
????????? I had the exchanger removed and cleaned last year and it has been operating very well and looks dry
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- Raw water feed to the raw water pump and heat exchanger
- Muffler housing
- Wet exhaust hose
????????? These looked dry when checked last week
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???????? This drips 2-3 drops per minute. Not great, but it's not a problem at this time. I will replace it with a dripless one when it's time.
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- Prop shaft mounting bolts
- Rudder shaft stuffing box
???????? I'm still working my way aft to get to this area
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- Do you draw sea water for your toilet? ?If so check all of those connections.
????????? Yes and there is leaking from there, but it ends up in the shower sump. The Perko filter needs servicing with new gaskets and rods (struts?) Also, the leaking it's not so serious at this time.
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- Speed/depth sensor thru-hulls
????????? I located the speed thru-hull, but not the depth. There is a lot to go through with this boat and since I live in Canada, I only spend moderate pockets of time (1 month per trip) in Jamaica where I bought the boat.
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Thank you for this!
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I believe I have found the source or at least, found another source. I found that a large canister holding a carbon filter belonging to the watermaker is in serious need of a new cap gasket. The amount of water coming through is closer to a small dribble than just drips. I think that over the span of 24 hours it is conceivable that it could amount to a few gallons. I saw that there was related a ball valve seacock left in the open position. I closed it and am monitoring it to see if that did the trick. The setup is a bit perplexing because it looks like the aircon is inline with the output of the same seacock. I will need to figure it out and not use the aircon until I know what's going on. The aircon could explain why the valve was left open even though the watermaker was not in use.
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I'm only here for a few more weeks and I hope this problem is solved. Thank you to all. You've been tremendously helpful and generous with your time.
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Augustin
VE7OXS
SV Rhapsody S425 (1990)
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According to the internet, one drip each second adds up to about 5 gallons in 24 hours.
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On 4/22/2025 12:06 PM, Augustin via groups.io wrote: I believe I have found the source or at least, found another source. I found that a large canister holding a carbon filter belonging to the watermaker is in serious need of a new cap gasket. The amount of water coming through is closer to a small dribble than just drips. I think that over the span of 24 hours it is conceivable that it could amount to a few gallons.
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Augustin
Len Bertaux
David Gerhardt
Tim Dokken