开云体育

C102

[email protected] #33 Hi all... I have a problematic C102 Cassette deck. The chip that opens and closes the drawer keeps burning out. The drawer motor is fine though... Just the chip keeps burning out. I've designed a small dual relay circuit to replace this chip. The drive motor for tape transport is shot, I have one on order, and I discovered that it's not a very good motor either. The motor is made by matsushita (panasonic). Now I discovered that the sound output is very very low. I'm getting quite annoyed with this thing at this point. Is it worth repairing? I'm actually quite shoked at the poor quality construction of the C102. I own an SAE 1800 EQ, a 2100L Amp (which seriously rocks!), and a P102 Preamp (which I finally worked all the bugs out of). I'm quite happy with the other stuff, but the C102 is just one of these things that is bothering me. I hate to give up on things...but this one might be the first thing I actually cannot fix. Any pointers? Any Suggestions (other than using it as a boat anchor)? Thanks. -=Jeff Gross=-
gurriesm #34 jgross@... wrote: From: jgross@... I have a problematic C102 Cassette deck. The chip that opens and closes the drawer keeps burning out. The drawer motor is fine though... Just the chip keeps burning out. I've designed a small dual relay circuit to replace this chip. The drive motor for tape transport is shot, I have one on order, and I discovered that it's not a very good motor either. The motor is made by panasonic. Now I discovered that the sound output is very very low. I'm getting quite annoyed with this thing at this point. Is it worth repairing? I'm actually quite shoked at the poor quality construction of the C102. I own an SAE 1800 EQ, a 2100L Amp (which seriously rocks!), and a P102 Preamp (which I finally worked all the bugs out of). I'm quite happy with the other stuff, but the C102 is just one of these things that is bothering me. I hate to give up on things...but this one might be the first thing I actually cannot fix. Any pointers? Any Suggestions (other than using it as a boat anchor)? Thanks. In answer to your specific question. I personally am not aware of any part sources or documentation sources for your tape deck. So unless someone has any other information to share, at this point I not sure anyone on this list can help you. But if you do learn anything, please share it on this list with us so others can benefit. Do you have a service manual or schematics of some type? If you do, we might be talking to you soon about making scans of the manual for others to use. Read on.. Some of us on this list are actively pooling our existing resources and trying to locate additional information and data on any SAE products. We also want to build a knowledge data base about repairs and upgrades. Finding parts sources is even more elusive. We believe we have secured a lot of information about the SAE products up to but NOT including the "01" series and plan to put together a new SAE website, based on the exiting website, with all this information for down load. Check the SAE_TALK onelist website links area for the existing web site address and other cool websites like for GAS. The goal of our effort here is SAE preservation. However, depending on the series, the newer the SAE unit is the less information we got!!! I to am in search of some parts. I have purchased 3 D102 CD players. The first one was a bad gamble on my part. It had a bad LED track/index/Time display. I thought, LED's. I can fix that. But my worse fear came true. The LED display is a custom module with a "Chip On Board" mounted on the back side of this double sided PCB. The part number looks like something I could buy if I could find out who made it. (Funny thing is, all the other LED's I can fix.) Anyway, chances are even if I could find the display, it might be a custom part that is not made anymore and SAE got them all. Today I am waiting for information, like you, about the history of SAE, names and contacts hopefully. This was one of the reasons I started this SAE_TALK list. But I do not hold much hope for finding a part. Anyway, I now consider this D102 a part supply box and have since then purchased 2 more D102 to use with needless to say, working LED displays. One to replace the first "parts box" CD and the other because I needed 2 anyway. In terms of SAE construction, if you never looked at the outside of this box, there is nothing on the inside that would tell you that this was a SAE product. Some thoughts of my own. Starting with SAE "01" (T101, C101, ect) series and later and worse the lower cost "02" (D102, C102, ect) represent a shift in design and production of the components that I believe the start of the end for SAE. Specifically the products made by Inkel in Korea, which includes the SAE TWO series, represented a deviation from the SAE heritage and to me the start of a long slow fall for SAE. Do not get me wrong. I own a lot of these Inkel era products only because they addressed holes in offering a complete audiophile product line for SAE and do still represent style statement. Rack mounting to me was and still is high on my list of "must have" when purchasing an audio product. How many rack mount CD players and tape decks could you find in the late 80's or even today excluding pro-only products But when Inkel started to make the PreAmps and EQ and I guess some amps, that was it. SAE started to become just another "Japanese" product in terms of construction and design philosophy. The good part about going with outside manufacture was to address the things that SAE could not make. In general I do not believe any US manufacture could make a competitive CD or Tape deck that would compete with the Japanese product. Even if it did, there is a learning curve about mechanisms and technology that a US company like SAE would have to learn. In other words, I do not think SAE could build a better CD or Tape Deck by itself and make money and I think SAE new that. Recognizing that limitation was smart. The question is finding the best CD or Tape Deck manufacture to make this stuff would be a critical choice for it would reflect back on the SAE reputation in the market place. I cannot Inkel was good or bad decision. I can say that the construction of the unit was not cheap and it not fall prey to the cheap plastic audio box construction of that period. You have to remember, Audio had fallen to second class consumer high technology position as the IBM PC took off. So for Tape Decks and CD players, it was an acceptable decision. But PreAmps, EQ, tuners, and Amps that where the heart and soul of SAE should have always remained 100% made in USA with SAE design philosophy behind it. So what does this all mean for your tape deck and for my CD players? I do not expect one should assume SAE quality and reputation for products that the SAE that we really know could not possibly make on its own. Also given the age and reliability of the technology at the time, problems are going to show up and all the equipment including mine will someday be unrepairable. But as long as there are traditional multiple sourced op-amps, bipolar transistors and such, the Amps, EQ's, PreAmps, and Tuners that were made in the USA should live a longer life than the Inkel stuff. My worse fear for older SAE stuff is finding linear slide pots and push buttons for the PreAmps and EQ's. I see a growing need for Part Boxes in the future. Best Regards, Mark Gurries ---------------------------------------------------------- Battery Charging and Power Systems Application Engineer Linear Technology,1630 McCarthy Blvd, Milpitas, CA, 95035 WRK(408) 954-8400 x3864 Email: gurriesm@... FAX(408) 428-9413 WebSite: ---------------------------------------------------------- Work & Hobby Related Website Info: Smart Battery Charging Systems: Model Railroad Club: ----------------------------------------------------------
gurriesm #35 jgross@... wrote: From: jgross@... Hi all... I have a problematic C102 Cassette deck. Hi Jeff. Got the first message. This list is a little slow in response becuase the membership is still low and the list is still very new. It all volunteer responses on anyones part. FYI. Thanks. Best Regards, Mark Gurries ---------------------------------------------------------- Battery Charging and Power Systems Application Engineer Linear Technology,1630 McCarthy Blvd, Milpitas, CA, 95035 WRK(408) 954-8400 x3864 Email: gurriesm@... FAX(408) 428-9413 WebSite: ---------------------------------------------------------- Work & Hobby Related Website Info: Smart Battery Charging Systems: Model Railroad Club: ----------------------------------------------------------
Wardsweb #36 Where shall I jump in here? Well, I plan on posting pdf's for most all the 01/02 series owners manuals, some white papers and sales literature. I collect almost exclusively the 01/02 Computer Direct-Line gear. My only other gear at present are a 4000 and 4200. The LED module used on most the 01/02 are plug-in. Mark, you most likely figured it out, when you remove the face plate pcb, the modules are glued to the face plate. Most times I find the led has a burnt out segment and you can just plug in another. That is, if you have a hanger queen to rob from. I pick up most any non-working units I can, just to have for future parts needs. I'm trying to get Morris to remember who the parts manager was when the company was sold to "?". When the company "?" sold to DAK they started the SAE TWO mass market gear. Anyone correct me on this. Anyway, as the company went thru different hand, so did the inventory and parts. Someone somewhere has this stuff crated sitting on a shelf. As James has pointed out, a really big problem is going to be the original output transistors in the XX00 gear. All the major manufacturers have stopped producing in this case. Luther toggle quoted message Show quoted text ----- Original Message ----- From: gurriesm To: $SAE Sent: Friday, January 28, 2000 5:02 PM Subject: Re: [SAE_Talk] C102 From: gurriesm <gurriesm@...> Some of us on this list are actively pooling our existing resources and trying to locate additional information and data on any SAE products. We also want to build a knowledge data base about repairs and upgrades. Finding parts sources is even more elusive. We believe we have secured a lot of information about the SAE products up to but NOT including the "01" series and plan to put together a new SAE website, based on the exiting website, with all this information for down load. Check the SAE_TALK onelist website links area for the existing web site address and other cool websites like for GAS. The goal of our effort here is SAE preservation. However, depending on the series, the newer the SAE unit is the less information we got!!! .....snip..... So what does this all mean for your tape deck and for my CD players? I do not expect one should assume SAE quality and reputation for products that the SAE that we really know could not possibly make on its own. Also given the age and reliability of the technology at the time, problems are going to show up and all the equipment including mine will someday be unrepairable. But as long as there are traditional multiple sourced op-amps, bipolar transistors and such, the Amps, EQ's, PreAmps, and Tuners that were made in the USA should live a longer life than the Inkel stuff. My worse fear for older SAE stuff is finding linear slide pots and push buttons for the PreAmps and EQ's. I see a growing need for Part Boxes in the future. Best Regards, Mark Gurries ---------------------------------------------------------- Battery Charging and Power Systems Application Engineer Linear Technology,1630 McCarthy Blvd, Milpitas, CA, 95035 WRK(408) 954-8400 x3864 Email: gurriesm@... FAX(408) 428-9413 WebSite: ---------------------------------------------------------- Work & Hobby Related Website Info: Smart Battery Charging Systems: Model Railroad Club: ---------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Please click above to support our sponsor ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Community email addresses: Post message: SAE_Talk@... Subscribe: SAE_Talk-subscribe@... Unsubscribe: SAE_Talk-unsubscribe@... List owner: SAE_Talk-owner@... Shortcut URL to this page:
gurriesm #37 Hi Luther From: "Wardsweb" <wardsweb@...> Where shall I jump in here? Well, I plan on posting pdf's for most all the 01/02 series owners manuals, some white papers and sales literature. I collect almost exclusively the 01/02 Computer Direct-Line gear. My only other gear at present are a 4000 and 4200. I have some O1 and 02 literature to share. I will make a list and send it to you. I was going half to do that anyway. I own a T101 turner and I like it a lot. James thinks that might be the best SAE tuner. The C101 I have is not a Nakamichi, but it is nice. I have the original service manual for the C101. I also have the E101. That works nice except there is a level left right level imbalance when it inserted into the audio path with all flat settings (Default). In other words, you here difference when you active it or bypass it with the Line EQ button. I liked the E101 because it effects both left and right channels exactly the same at the same time with one adjustment. The Older 2800 type have separate left and right controls. They look cool, but how often does one need to have separate controls for left and right. I rather have more parametric controls for both than duplicate controls for left and right. I buy the 01 and 02 stuff also because it takes less rack space. So as much as I criticize it, I still buy it. The LED module used on most the 01/02 are plug-in. Mark, you most likely figured it out, when you remove the face plate pcb, the modules are glued to the face plate. Most times I find the led has a burnt out segment and you can just plug in another. That is, if you have a hanger queen to rob from. I pick up most any non-working units I can, just to have for future parts needs. Yep, that what I have to do. I'm trying to get Morris to remember who the parts manager was when the company was sold to "?". When the company "?" sold to DAK they started the SAE TWO mass market gear. Anyone correct me on this. Anyway, as the company went thru different hand, so did the inventory and parts. Someone somewhere has this stuff crated sitting on a shelf. Hopefully we can find that "holy grail" of parts. I be willing to go in on a buy of parts if we could locate them. As James has pointed out, a really big problem is going to be the original output transistors in the XX00 gear. All the major manufacturers have stopped producing in this case. True. But you can modify the equipment to work with the newer transistors. The problem is the new ones are faster than the old ones. It can lead to high frequency instability. You half to compensate for the speed in the feedback and drive circuitry. James has already figured out what to do. I have some parts in stock at home that will work as a direct substitutes for 200W or less amps depending on the model. I purchased some MJ15003 and MJ15004 a while back. It the 2n6XXX darlingtons in my MK 31B that worries me the most. I have not looked to see if I can still buy those. My 31B (XXX1B) that is my favorite. I modified it a lot. I upgraded the bridge rectifier, added 40000uF to get a awesome 60000uF of low ESR capacitance for the +/- 40V supplies using 12AWG wire soldered directly to the output transistors. I removed the current limiting. Installed speaker fuses. Put polystyrene caps in parallel with the input AL caps. Upgraded the floating regulator cap. This amp got guts and clean highs. Everyone who has hear is surprised how powerful and clean it is. ----- Original Message ----- From: gurriesm To: $SAE Sent: Friday, January 28, 2000 5:02 PM Subject: Re: [SAE_Talk] C102 From: gurriesm <gurriesm@...> Some of us on this list are actively pooling our existing resources and trying to locate additional information and data on any SAE products. We also want to build a knowledge data base about repairs and upgrades. Finding parts sources is even more elusive. We believe we have secured a lot of information about the SAE products up to but NOT including the "01" series and plan to put together a new SAE website, based on the exiting website, with all this information for down load. Check the SAE_TALK onelist website links area for the existing web site address and other cool websites like for GAS. The goal of our effort here is SAE preservation. However, depending on the series, the newer the SAE unit is the less information we got!!! .....snip..... So what does this all mean for your tape deck and for my CD players? I do not expect one should assume SAE quality and reputation for products that the SAE that we really know could not possibly make on its own. Also given the age and reliability of the technology at the time, problems are going to show up and all the equipment including mine will someday be unrepairable. But as long as there are traditional multiple sourced op-amps, bipolar transistors and such, the Amps, EQ's, PreAmps, and Tuners that were made in the USA should live a longer life than the Inkel stuff. My worse fear for older SAE stuff is finding linear slide pots and push buttons for the PreAmps and EQ's. I see a growing need for Part Boxes in the future. Best Regards, Mark Gurries Best Regards, Mark Gurries ---------------------------------------------------------- Battery Charging and Power Systems Application Engineer Linear Technology,1630 McCarthy Blvd, Milpitas, CA, 95035 WRK(408) 954-8400 x3864 Email: gurriesm@... FAX(408) 428-9413 WebSite: ---------------------------------------------------------- Work & Hobby Related Website Info: Smart Battery Charging Systems: Model Railroad Club: ----------------------------------------------------------
sstinc:"First sstinc:Last" #41 Dear folks, To be sure, I am very proud of the 31B amp that I designed. It was the first dual-differential full-complementary amp in the world. It was the model for all that followed. I believe if my memory serves me correctly that SAE made around 50,000 units. It has miraculously proven to be exceedingly reliable. As far as the output devices go, I wouldn't worry to much about them. If they haven't failed by this time, they will probably last forever. Motorola (now "ON" semiconductor) does have a much newer and much stronger set of devices that can be used if necessary however, the old saying still applies ie: if it ain't broke, don't fix it. I would also strongly recommend that anyone into upgrading these amps seriously consider replacing all of the comp caps with dipped silvered mica types. Also, replace all of the ceramic bypass caps with high frequency dipped polyesters. Also, replace the input and output jacks with gold types. Finally and most important, REFURBISH ALL OF THE GROUNDS and check for cold or poor solder joints. These things creep up on you over time. All for now. James Bongiorno gurriesm wrote: toggle quoted message Show quoted text From: gurriesm <gurriesm@...> Hi Luther From: "Wardsweb" <wardsweb@...> Where shall I jump in here? Well, I plan on posting pdf's for most all the 01/02 series owners manuals, some white papers and sales literature. I collect almost exclusively the 01/02 Computer Direct-Line gear. My only other gear at present are a 4000 and 4200. I have some O1 and 02 literature to share. I will make a list and send it to you. I was going half to do that anyway. I own a T101 turner and I like it a lot. James thinks that might be the best SAE tuner. The C101 I have is not a Nakamichi, but it is nice. I have the original service manual for the C101. I also have the E101. That works nice except there is a level left right level imbalance when it inserted into the audio path with all flat settings (Default). In other words, you here difference when you active it or bypass it with the Line EQ button. I liked the E101 because it effects both left and right channels exactly the same at the same time with one adjustment. The Older 2800 type have separate left and right controls. They look cool, but how often does one need to have separate controls for left and right. I rather have more parametric controls for both than duplicate controls for left and right. I buy the 01 and 02 stuff also because it takes less rack space. So as much as I criticize it, I still buy it. The LED module used on most the 01/02 are plug-in. Mark, you most likely figured it out, when you remove the face plate pcb, the modules are glued to the face plate. Most times I find the led has a burnt out segment and you can just plug in another. That is, if you have a hanger queen to rob from. I pick up most any non-working units I can, just to have for future parts needs. Yep, that what I have to do. I'm trying to get Morris to remember who the parts manager was when the company was sold to "?". When the company "?" sold to DAK they started the SAE TWO mass market gear. Anyone correct me on this. Anyway, as the company went thru different hand, so did the inventory and parts. Someone somewhere has this stuff crated sitting on a shelf. Hopefully we can find that "holy grail" of parts. I be willing to go in on a buy of parts if we could locate them. As James has pointed out, a really big problem is going to be the original output transistors in the XX00 gear. All the major manufacturers have stopped producing in this case. True. But you can modify the equipment to work with the newer transistors. The problem is the new ones are faster than the old ones. It can lead to high frequency instability. You half to compensate for the speed in the feedback and drive circuitry. James has already figured out what to do. I have some parts in stock at home that will work as a direct substitutes for 200W or less amps depending on the model. I purchased some MJ15003 and MJ15004 a while back. It the 2n6XXX darlingtons in my MK 31B that worries me the most. I have not looked to see if I can still buy those. My 31B (XXX1B) that is my favorite. I modified it a lot. I upgraded the bridge rectifier, added 40000uF to get a awesome 60000uF of low ESR capacitance for the +/- 40V supplies using 12AWG wire soldered directly to the output transistors. I removed the current limiting. Installed speaker fuses. Put polystyrene caps in parallel with the input AL caps. Upgraded the floating regulator cap. This amp got guts and clean highs. Everyone who has hear is surprised how powerful and clean it is. ----- Original Message ----- From: gurriesm To: $SAE Sent: Friday, January 28, 2000 5:02 PM Subject: Re: [SAE_Talk] C102 From: gurriesm <gurriesm@...> Some of us on this list are actively pooling our existing resources and trying to locate additional information and data on any SAE products. We also want to build a knowledge data base about repairs and upgrades. Finding parts sources is even more elusive. We believe we have secured a lot of information about the SAE products up to but NOT including the "01" series and plan to put together a new SAE website, based on the exiting website, with all this information for down load. Check the SAE_TALK onelist website links area for the existing web site address and other cool websites like for GAS. The goal of our effort here is SAE preservation. However, depending on the series, the newer the SAE unit is the less information we got!!! .....snip..... So what does this all mean for your tape deck and for my CD players? I do not expect one should assume SAE quality and reputation for products that the SAE that we really know could not possibly make on its own. Also given the age and reliability of the technology at the time, problems are going to show up and all the equipment including mine will someday be unrepairable. But as long as there are traditional multiple sourced op-amps, bipolar transistors and such, the Amps, EQ's, PreAmps, and Tuners that were made in the USA should live a longer life than the Inkel stuff. My worse fear for older SAE stuff is finding linear slide pots and push buttons for the PreAmps and EQ's. I see a growing need for Part Boxes in the future. Best Regards, Mark Gurries Best Regards, Mark Gurries ---------------------------------------------------------- Battery Charging and Power Systems Application Engineer Linear Technology,1630 McCarthy Blvd, Milpitas, CA, 95035 WRK(408) 954-8400 x3864 Email: gurriesm@... FAX(408) 428-9413 WebSite: ---------------------------------------------------------- Work & Hobby Related Website Info: Smart Battery Charging Systems: Model Railroad Club: ---------------------------------------------------------- --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa. ZERO. Rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, no hidden fees, and much more. Get NextCard today and get the credit you deserve. Apply now! Get your NextCard Visa at <a href=" ">Click Here</a> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Community email addresses: Post message: SAE_Talk@... 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