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Re: Thaedra boards
James Bongiorno
Dear Paul,
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I doubt whether you have any Thaedra II boards in the unit. Also, with the exception of the first 100 units which had a head amp servo that was designed by Bascom King, and subsequently turned out to be totally unacceptable (of which I had to completely redesign) there were NO pc board changes while I owned GAS. The first 100 units were all replaced. James Paul Anthony Bigelow wrote: Hello James, |
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Thaedra boards
Paul Anthony Bigelow
Hello James,
The boards in my Thaedra are numbered as follows: Head Amp: 324C Phono 2 : 523 Line : 522 Mode/Fil: 327D Tape Sw : 325C Power : 321C Since it would appear that the boards have gone through revisions, are these boards the latest boards? It it possible to assemble a "best of" Thaedra from other Thaedras? Is it possible that boards from Thaedra II have been mixed with your original Thaedra? Hopefully mine is not "mixed"! Best regards, Paul Bigelow |
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Re: SAE P250 amplifier
James Bongiorno
Dear Joel,
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The P250 is the commercial version of the similar 2500. Basically only cosmetic differences but it still uses my fundamental circuit design. As far as mods go, I have attached my modernization and upgrade schedule for your perusal. All electronic equipment needs to be refurbished after a long aging period. No different than any other product in the world. James Bongiorno Joel Tatelman wrote: I'm awaiting delivery of an SAE P250 which I purchased mainly based |
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SAE P250 amplifier
Joel Tatelman
I'm awaiting delivery of an SAE P250 which I purchased mainly based
on another's raves about his SAE P500. Does anybody have any experience/ comments/opinions regarding the P250? I'd also like to obtain a schematic/service manual for this model, if anyone has any leads. Finally, if anyone has any suggestions for tweaks or upgrades, beyond the obvious ones of new input and output connectors, I'd be most grateful for details. Thanks very much. Joel Tatelman. |
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Re: Early Transistor Sound
James Bongiorno
Dear Paul,
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You hit the nail right on the head. I've felt AND said for years that this industry in certain regards is taking giant steps backwards. Mostly, it is because these idiots do not HAVE A CLUE as to what's happening. They couldn't come up with any new circuit concepts if their lives depended on it. These single ended nutcases belong in an asylum as far as I'm concerned. How can anyone in their right mind believe that some or a lot of distortion is in any way acceptable? This just doesn't make any rational sense. According to these morons, all the last 40 years of scientific work and endeavors have been a waste of time. They want us to go back to 1925 which was even before feedback was discovered. Is there anyone alive today that could tell us all how "wonderful" things sounded in 1925. Shades of the most awful speakers and cartridges and electronics known to man. Give me a break. When I get my web page up shortly, a whole lot of this nonsense is going to be debunked. Stay tuned. James Paul Anthony Bigelow wrote: Dear James, |
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Re: Thaedra / SAE Mk VI display
James Bongiorno
Dear Paul,
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Yes, all "inputs" on the Thaedra are shorted when not selected by the selector switch EXCEPT the tape copy and monitor inputs and output, for obvious reasons. James Paul Anthony Bigelow wrote: Dear James, |
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Thaedra / SAE Mk VI display
Paul Anthony Bigelow
Dear James,
Does the Thaedra short out the unused inputs? (I could easily measure and confirm but I haven't -- yet) What was noticed was that the Mk VI FM audio display disappeared when the Thaedra was switched from tuner input to aux input (the tuner was left unchanged and the only connection is from the tuner's L-R outputs to the Thaedra's A-B tuner input). The display would return if: 1) The Thaedra was switched back to tuner input 2) The tuner was disconneded from the Thaedra If the inputs are shorted, that's another testament to the Thaedra's well thought out design. Best regards, Paul Bigelow |
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Re: Early Transistor Sound
Paul Anthony Bigelow
Dear James,
My apologies. I do not mean to give the impression that I am prying for a real technical, indepth discussion or any information that would be proprietary. I am just interested in audio history and current rage with single-ended-triode amps vs. ultralinear vs. transistors appears to resemble the early transistor days with transistors vs. tubes, germanium vs. silicon, etc. The SET world is just abuzz with terms such as directly heated, indirctly heated, tetrodes in triode mode, single plate, etc. I have even seen solid state amps with ONE output device in single-ended mode costing thousands of dollars! The point of all of this is I'm just wondering if there is really progress being made or if it's going back full circle with people trying to design transistorized products like tube amps and, perhaps, making the same mistakes. I'll leave it at that. Best regards, Paul Bigelow --- In SAE_Talk@..., James Bongiorno <sstinc@e...> wrote: Dear Paul,least) 40 years worth of acquired knowledge.Why on earth should I tell theworld what I've learned over the years so they can design products with theadvantage of free engineering. I've often thought about writing a book on thesubject of Audio design/ART and Science. However, it still comes back to thesame problem. After all, my circuit topologies up to the moment have to be themost copied in history along with the original Williamson tube amp. There's muchmore here than meets the eye and yes you'd better believe that there are somesecrets to great analog design. But to be quite frank and honest, I prefer tokeep these secrets just that.dead yet and I will be coming out with new products shortly and I can be very surethat again they will copied extentsively.Model T not.Fordtoday with its planatary drive and spark advance, etc. I think midTheearly years of solid state from the mid 50's through about the had60's wasa long learning curve. During that time the only two guys that designtheir acttogether were Bart Locanthi at JBL and of course the great SidSmith atMarantz. All the rest of the so called engineers couldn't learnedtheircollective way out of the toilet because they had not yet on ahow tothink "solid state". The semiconductor manufacturers were also wereverysteep learning curve and it wasn't until the mid 70's that we ---------------------------------------------------------------------able toget devices that were really decent. that---Get your money connected @ OnMoney.com - the first Web site ---------------------------------------------------------------------letsyou see and manage all of your finances all in one place. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ --- savingWould you like to save big on your phone bill -- and keep on Long Distancemore each month? Join beMANY! Our huge buying group gives you ---------------------------------------------------------------------rates which fall monthly, plus an extra $60 in FREE calls! ---
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Re: Early Transistor Sound
James Bongiorno
Dear Paul,
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The problem that I can see here is one of giving away (for me at least) 40 years worth of acquired knowledge.Why on earth should I tell the world what I've learned over the years so they can design products with the advantage of free engineering. I've often thought about writing a book on the subject of Audio design/ART and Science. However, it still comes back to the same problem. After all, my circuit topologies up to the moment have to be the most copied in history along with the original Williamson tube amp. There's much more here than meets the eye and yes you'd better believe that there are some secrets to great analog design. But to be quite frank and honest, I prefer to keep these secrets just that. I know that this is not what you want to "hear" however, I'm not dead yet and I will be coming out with new products shortly and I can be very sure that again they will copied extentsively. James Bongiorno Paul Anthony Bigelow wrote: Dear James, |
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Re: Early Transistor Sound
Paul Anthony Bigelow
Dear James,
Thank you for the response. I would certainly agree that a learning curve was necessary to bring the transisitorized equipment to a high level of performance but what my inquiry was about what needed to be learned and what was missed. Just because these companies were on a learning curve, it sure didn't stop them from developing and turing out the equipment. For example, did the early designers think of transistors as low voltage tubes and design accordingly, simply "dropping" the transistor into existing tube designs and eliminating the ouput transformer (when applicable)? I'm reminded of the early days of radio. Scads of regenerative receivers and other exotic designs hit the market with wildly differing performance until the superhet quickly became the norm and raised radio performance to another level. Best regards, Paul Bigelow -- In SAE_Talk@..., James Bongiorno <sstinc@e...> wrote: Dear Paul,Ford today with its planatary drive and spark advance, etc. I think not.The early years of solid state from the mid 50's through about the mid60's was a long learning curve. During that time the only two guys that hadtheir act together were Bart Locanthi at JBL and of course the great SidSmith at Marantz. All the rest of the so called engineers couldn't designtheir collective way out of the toilet because they had not yet learnedhow to think "solid state". The semiconductor manufacturers were also on avery steep learning curve and it wasn't until the mid 70's that we wereable to get devices that were really decent.--------------------------------------------------------------------- --- letsGet your money connected @ OnMoney.com - the first Web site that ---------------------------------------------------------------------you see and manage all of your finances all in one place. ---
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Re: Early Transistor Sound
James Bongiorno
Dear Paul,
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I hate to belabor the point, but would you like to drive a Model T Ford today with its planatary drive and spark advance, etc. I think not. The early years of solid state from the mid 50's through about the mid 60's was a long learning curve. During that time the only two guys that had their act together were Bart Locanthi at JBL and of course the great Sid Smith at Marantz. All the rest of the so called engineers couldn't design their collective way out of the toilet because they had not yet learned how to think "solid state". The semiconductor manufacturers were also on a very steep learning curve and it wasn't until the mid 70's that we were able to get devices that were really decent. James Paul Anthony Bigelow wrote: Dear James, |
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Re: Late '60's early '70's "High End"
James Bongiorno
Dear Armin,
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Forget about HK. I wouldn't hit a dog in the #$% with the stuff that they made. Their emphasis has always been Japanese through and through. The only thing that they ever did in the last 25 years that held any prospect of performance was the Citation 23 tuner but not in its delivered form. They are a CHEAP organization and although they paid be big bucks to completely redesign the unit, which I did, and the results were quite spectacular, they opted not to make it because it cost too much and had too many "adjustments". When are people going to learn that you can NOT make a great tuner without adjustments. Its not ever going to happen. James Armin Paya wrote: Some of the HK Citation product line was pretty decent as well. I don't |
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Re: Late '60's early '70's "High End"
James Bongiorno
Dear Paul,
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Actually, you are right about Marantz. They did stop designing tube stuff in 1965. However, that's when Sidney was developing the very nice Marantz model 15 power amp (1966) of which I was the cleanup engineer on. Even by today's standards, this amp would hold its own although it's only 70 watts/channel. If I do my upgrade on one, it becomes quite formidable. James Paul Anthony Bigelow wrote: Hello James and Armin, |
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Re: Marantz A/V9000, Rotel RSP-985
James Bongiorno
Dear Bob,
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If you can wait a bit, ATI (SAE's successor company) is coming out with an A/V processor that will have a built in LCD color TV monitor. Pretty slick. James Bongiorno desertfox wrote: Hi! Guys. |
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Early Transistor Sound
Paul Anthony Bigelow
Dear James,
Most early solid state equipment, as a class, seems to be viewed with much disdain by current audiophiles. If early solid state is as bad as many audiophiles state, what do you think were the problems with early solid state and what did the designers miss? Was it a design problem? Problems with the devices? Or Both? Best regards, Paul Bigelow |
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Re: Late '60's early '70's "High End"
Paul Anthony Bigelow
Hello James and Armin,
To me, anyway, there seemed to be a point in the very early 70's where Marantz sort of stopped being "high end" and more "consumer grade". It also seemed to me at about this time the "high end" as we know it started to be born. At this point, I think Marantz had stopped using tubes and McIntosh was just about to stop. At this crossover SAE and Audio Research started up soon to be joined by GAS. It is this period I am referring to and the other companies that may have been started. The early days of tube are quite heavily documented. Early solid state, in my opinion, is sparsely documented. Best regards, Paul Bigelow --- In SAE_Talk@..., Armin Paya <apaya@s...> wrote: Some of the HK Citation product line was pretty decent as well. Idon't really think Threshold has been around since late days of tube era.--------------------------------------------------------------------- --- ---------------------------------------------------------------------Earn free CDs from Amazon & CDNow? True! New site needs ---
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Re: Late '60's early '70's "High End"
Some of the HK Citation product line was pretty decent as well. I don't
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really think Threshold has been around since late days of tube era. Armin Paya Paul Anthony Bigelow wrote:
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Marantz A/V9000, Rotel RSP-985
desertfox
Hi! Guys.
I was thinking about buying a Marantz A/V 9000, or a Rotel RSP-985 A/V Preamp for my home theater system. I would like to get everyones opinion on these two models as to quality. Or any other A/V Preamp that comes in black, that would match my SAE equipment. Thanks, Bob. |
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Re: Late '60's early '70's "High End"
Paul- Late 60's was pretty much McIntosh, Marantz, Crown, perhaps Fisher to
a point - by 72-73 SAE, Phase Linear and Audio Research were there- - but the Japanese were opening up the consumer market and creating a $ gap that forced the older American companies either out or to the orient- that started a new low volume American response with companies like Threshold and Gas to get into the market by mid 70's. Sony was the only true Japanese company making "high end" separates at the time and Marantz was owned by Superscope- the Sony tape distributer in the US at that time- They had moved all their production to the orient by then. I owned high end shop during that period and to my best memory that is a simplified answer. Am sure I missed someone and didn't include numerous "esoteric" small companies that proiduced some interesting equipment but never really got into the market Andy On Tue, 02 May 2000 20:53:16 -0000, SAE_Talk@... wrote: Hello, _______________________________________________________ Get 100% FREE Internet Access powered by Excite Visit |
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Re: Late '60's early '70's "High End"
James Bongiorno
Dear Paul,
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Substitute Marantz (tubes) for Mackintosh. James Paul Anthony Bigelow wrote: Hello, |
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