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After Shapeways has passed away it seems I have to install my kadee couplers the regular way for the time being. The model was designed in a time when there was only Kadee #5 available. For free movement of the trucks I'd prefer to use the small SHS couplers. Having no coupler gauge here in Germany I ask myself if the coupler height will be correct or if I need an additional shim. Has someone done the conversion on the Trainmaster recently and remembers how it went? It IS a beautiful Diesel and deserves to come with scale couplers. Next challenge will be the installment of a DCC decoder.
Greetings from Middle Franconia, Hans
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The Train Master is designed for the Kadee 802's. They fit just fine. Just use the center and rear mounting holes.
Rich G(ajnak)
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On Sun, Jul 14, 2024 at 11:36 AM, Hans von Draminski wrote:
The model was designed in a time when there was only Kadee #5 available.
Just curious, why not simply use the Kadee #5 ? Generally speaking, they reportedly work well with the S Kadees. ? -- Ed Loizeaux Los Altos, CA
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Just a comment about #5's and AM. I got into S in 1985 and while AM's initial products (mainly boxcars, reefers and open hoppers) were designed for the #5's, I have always used the 802's and 808's (and occasionally the On3 803) from the beginning. I don't recall when Kadee started offering the 802's but it was somewhere around the mid-1980's.
The Train Masters were introduced in 2002. E8's and SD60's in 2001. It seems everything AM introduced at least after 2001 are set up for the 802.
Rich G(ajnak)
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Friends,
Not that it's super important, but in
some cases I've gone back to the #5s.? When I laid my first circle
of track on my layout, t was adjusting track and coupler heights
of cars I was also building, so it was a see-saw thing in coupler
heights.?
I had finally gotten that pretty much
taken care of when the AM streamline cars arrived where those
nice, but long cars caused some adjustments at one particular
short segment of track right near a tunnel portal on a curve
nonetheless.? So I did buy into the 802's and now the newer San
Juan version--problem solved with the help of a couple of shims
under the track for height adjustment.?
So with the popularity of wider
mounting pads I added more of the 800's on 'normal cars'.? But
when I built about 50 PRS boxcars, reefers and grain hoppers I dug
out my stash of the Bortz modified #5 couplers and life was good.?
Later I recycled some of the 800's for under some brass
purchases.? With #5's under SHS/PRS&SSA cars. So whatever
works, I guess!
Now, I did buy a Trainmaster missing
some parts, used then I ordered new printed coupler pockets but
still haven't found a way onto the engine.? I'm almost thinking a
successful way might be used to fabricate some styrene plugs to
fill the too wide hi-rail openings.? Mine is a C&NW colored
version so matching paint shouldn't be an issue for that era--(I
have a photo where the yellow hoods came in three flavors but
green only one!)
Bob Werre
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Just a comment about #5's and AM. I got into S in 1985 and while
AM's initial products (mainly boxcars, reefers and open hoppers)
were designed for the #5's, I have always used the 802's and 808's
(and occasionally the On3 803) from the beginning. I don't recall
when Kadee started offering the 802's but it was somewhere around
the mid-1980's.
The Train Masters were introduced in 2002. E8's and SD60's in
2001. It seems everything AM introduced at least after 2001 are
set up for the 802.
Rich G(ajnak)
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@Rich Gajnak: That is the Wabash version I'd bought if I wouldn't have found that Demonstrator I was searching for a long while. That bold dark blue is, in a word, great. That an 802/808 fits without modfication surprises me. Maybe I'm blind but I could not see that second hole you were using to fix the coupler box. And I ask myself, which type of screw you were using that is big enough to fit in the Trainmaster's pre-drilled hole without damaging the box. Or did you use some kind of a tube to equalize the diameters?
Anyway I have to order a few new sets of 808s. In Germany we have exactly one (1!!!!) mailorder dealer that sells s scale Kadee couplers. And that dealer exactly has one (!) set in stock. If I order those Kadees in the States it's 50 Euros just for shipping. So I keep buying in Germany, knowing that it's consuming a lot more time but less money...
Greetings from Middle Franconia, Hans
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@Rich Gajnak Seems you used a shim my Trainmaster hadn't when I received it. Is that the socket AM sells for use with budd cars?
Greetz, Hans
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Hans, I mounted my couplers on the talgo arms molded with the truck sideframe assemblies. As I don't run them often, mounting couplers to the frame has been a low priority for me.
However, I am given to understand the mounting pads (they were included with my U25B's but not with the FM's) are the same as the ones for the Budd cars.
Rich G(ajnak)
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Thanks Rich, that shows me a path to go until I shall find a 3D printing service to modify (close) the pilots in the way Bill Lane did. At the moment my RS11 (the other Demonstrator I own) is on the tracks. Have to do some tests with those Inventive/Sergent couplers.
?
Greetings from the nocturnal Fürth, Hans
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On Mon, Jul 15, 2024 at 11:03 AM, Hans von Draminski wrote:
I wouldn't have found that Demonstrator I was searching for
Hello Hans..........Are you aware that the Trainmaster demo paint scheme had two different versions for the roof?? There was the plain red roof which American Models used.? There is also rather fancy black/yellow artistic roof artwork which has not been modeled in S scale -- except for the two units I own.? As usual, they are for sale if anyone is interested.? Photos upon request.? Cheers.........Ed L.
?
--
Ed Loizeaux
Los Altos, CA
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From:?Ed Loizeaux
Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2024 15:11:22 PDT?
. . . Hello Hans. . .
The Fairbanks-Morse Train Master is a favorite of mine. ?It is a model H-24-66 (a Hood unit of 2,400 horsepower on a pair of 6-wheel trucks).
Attached are two photos:
SP 4815 in San Francisco, showing how huge it was (because of its opposed-piston engine).
SP 4804 (and two others) hauling freight in the El Paso area. — Bill Roberts
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Hello Ed,
?
although it saddens me seeing you selling all your stuff, pictures of your Trainmaster locos were welcome. Did you digitize them or are they still DC? My copy is bound to get a decoder when autumn comes. At the moment I'm too busy for bigger actions with my stuff.?
?
Kind regards and heartful greetings from summery Middle Franconia, Hans
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@Bill, those old b&w pics are amazing. If I recapitulate history right, FM didn't produce many different models. There is the C type Rivarossi did in O scale, the big Trainmaster many modelmakers did and the Baby Trainmaster. Regarding the last, a few of them survived, but not the big brother H-24-66. Correct me if I'm wrong. Here in Germany there is also no correct soundfile available. ESU's latest incarnation of the Loksound is a stunning decoder, but you won't find a file for the Trainmaster. Rumor has it the last ones were scrapped before someone got the idea of recording the prime mover sound...
?
Greetings, Hans
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Guys: I seem to recall another listing here on this group where the differences between the kadee HO #5 couplers and the 800 series On3 and S Scale couplers were discussed and what I recall was someone? ( I think Dick Karnes ) explaining that the 802 style couplers were slightly more forgiving for longer cars and locos with the vertical uncoupling problem when the grades are changing too quickly on our model railroad. This seems to be backed up with the shims Bob Werre explained had to be added to his roadbed to cure the problems he was having on a curve near a tunnel entrance. Has anyone ever experimented with easements for vertical ( up and down ) grades with s scale models?
Seems this would be an interesting experiment which could solve many models interfacing with layout grade issues so many seem to share. Some charts and graphs about easements in the vertical grades would be a great resource for the layout builder. I think Mallory may have touched on this in his trackkwork handbook years ago - but that was pretty specific I think to HO scale. It would be nice to see some suggestions showing what is needed for all the different currently available s scale cars and locomotives running on s scale layouts so that when building a layout this can be handled well in the first place. Many are now using helix risers and I think it would have to be important to cover vertical grades easements for doing a helix which is usually built with a fairly steep grade as far as modeling goes.
Bill Morris
NEPrototypes? S Scale ONLY decals
PO Box 4-4-2
Rutland, MA 01543-0442 USA
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One H24-66 still exists in Canada (CPR 8905) at the Canadian railway Museum in Saint-Constant, Quebec.
?
?
The so-called "Baby" Train Master (it's more a railfan term) didn't exist in the FM catalog.? It was simply the H16-66.
?
Rich G(ajnak)
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Bill,? I had mentions that issue with 5s on any trackage that has slight rollercoaster in the roadbed. The longer the car the more movement on the coupler allowing disengagement. That’s why in that thread I promoted the 802 over the 5.? Mike Swederska?
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On Jul 16, 2024, at 4:12?PM, William Morris via groups.io <classicaudioservice@...> wrote:
? Guys: I seem to recall another listing here on this group where the differences between the kadee HO #5 couplers and the 800 series On3 and S Scale couplers were discussed and what I recall was someone? ( I think Dick Karnes ) explaining that the 802 style couplers were slightly more forgiving for longer cars and locos with the vertical uncoupling problem when the grades are changing too quickly on our model railroad. This seems to be backed up with the shims Bob Werre explained had to be added to his roadbed to cure the problems he was having on a curve near a tunnel entrance. Has anyone ever experimented with easements for vertical ( up and down ) grades with s scale models?
Seems this would be an interesting experiment which could solve many models interfacing with layout grade issues so many seem to share. Some charts and graphs about easements in the vertical grades would be a great resource for the layout builder. I think Mallory may have touched on this in his trackkwork handbook years ago - but that was pretty specific I think to HO scale. It would be nice to see some suggestions showing what is needed for all the different currently available s scale cars and locomotives running on s scale layouts so that when building a layout this can be handled well in the first place. Many are now using helix risers and I think it would have to be important to cover vertical grades easements for doing a helix which is usually built with a fairly steep grade as far as modeling goes.
Bill Morris
NEPrototypes? S Scale ONLY decals
PO Box 4-4-2
Rutland, MA 01543-0442 USA
--
Mike Swederska
Meramec Valley Lines
Modeling Mopac equipment in 3/16
Don't let perfection get in the way of good enough! Keep model railroading fun!
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Also there is a stuffed one, down at
the RR Museum in Galveston, Texas.? Since it's been underwater a
couple of times, it's not in super shape, but still has a UP paint
scheme.???
The Milwaukee Road had many of the
H6-66' as they were good on marginal track.? One was featured in a
old Kalmbach video about 1st Generation Engines.? Also both the
Milwaukee Road and the Chicago & Northwestern serviced the FM
factory in Beloit.? so I guess it's good to patronize your own
clients!
Bob Werre
PhotoTraxx
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One H24-66 still exists in Canada (CPR 8905) at the Canadian
railway Museum in Saint-Constant, Quebec.
?
?
The so-called "Baby" Train Master (it's more a railfan term)
didn't exist in the FM catalog.? It was simply the H16-66.
?
Rich G(ajnak)
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Galveston is an H20-44 switcher.
?
Illinois Railway Museum has three FM units: A former UP H20-44(ex-1366) still in Southwest Portland Cement 409, Santa Fe H12-44 terminal switcher 543 and Milwaukee Road H10-44(the very first FM locomotive) 760.
?
Only the 760 is operable.
?
A listing of preserved FM locomotives can be found here:
http://www.thedieselshop.us/PRSVDfm.HTML
?
In case you guys haven't guessed, I sorta have a "thing" for FM diesels.
?
Rich G(ajnak)
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Only people who didn't like them?were the engine?workers. opposing?cylinder engines had to be removed from?the locomotive to repair them.? older Pete
From:?Ed Loizeaux
Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2024 15:11:22 PDT?
. . . Hello Hans. . .
The Fairbanks-Morse Train Master is a favorite of mine.? It is a model H-24-66 (a Hood unit of 2,400 horsepower on a pair of 6-wheel trucks).
Attached are two photos:
SP 4815 in San Francisco, showing how huge it was (because of its opposed-piston engine).
SP 4804 (and two others) hauling freight in the El Paso area. — Bill Roberts
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On Fri, Jul 19, 2024 at 07:15 AM, Pete Silcox wrote:
Only people who didn't like them?were the engine?workers. opposing?cylinder engines had to be removed from?the locomotive to repair them.? older Pete
Must not have bothered the Virginian Railway, they dieselized 99.99% FM.? (They had one GE 44 tonner....)
?
Fortunately, we as model railroaders don't have to concern ourselves with silly things like prototype maintenance.? :-)
?
BTW, the Illinois Central considered buying a whopping 75 Train Masters, but backed off when a proxy fight at FM occurred.
?
Rich G(ajnak)
?
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Bob Werre
Pete Silcox