Just saw a YouTube that recommended NOT using windshield wash.
His formula was water, ,8 oz I think, 6 drops of dishwasher rinse and a similar volume of glycerine.
The dishwasher rinse acts as a surfactant.
On Thu, Feb 13, 2025 at 2:52 PM, J. Kindraka via groups.io <kindrakaj@...> wrote: Tom: Glycerine is a carbohydrate, not an oil.? I believe it is in a group of what are called "sugar alcohols".? It is completely soluble in water.? Google it!?? Google probably has a more succinct explanation than this
wobbly bodied, shaking hands, poor visioned, S-Scale, model building microbiologist can provide... ?.
BTW, I sent a private note to Mike S.? I would hardly call his Frisco model "just another boxcar" - really nice work Mike! Jim Kindraka Grand Rapids, MI On Thu, Feb 13, 2025 at 1:51?PM Tom Lennon wrote:
I jest Mike, but isn't glycerine an oil? Is it water soluble?
I also watched a YouTube video that recommended using windshield washer fluid. Took me a couple of hours to disassemble the airbrush and clean out the solidified acrylic...but I'm still having fun. Tommy?
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And it’s hard to argue with success, and Lionel together with O have more success and product than S.
For 50 years we have been pushing the size of S and decrying being held back by Flyer - what if embracing hi-rail and and simply pushing for more new product was the real answer? There isn’t a detail that people do in S that isn’t common in modern HO, clearly what drives the more successful scales is variety of product. Not just new paint schemes, although those were slow to come in S as well.? Whole new models.
Someone has to invest, is one issue. But Andre’s point is rather than pushing for “more scale, no big flanges” it is possible that scale-looking models with easier to re-rail flanges and rail would have drawn more people to S than attempts to be “more scale too”.
On Thursday, February 13, 2025, 9:41 AM, Rich Gajnak via groups.io <rustytraque@...> wrote: On Thu, Feb 13, 2025 at 04:51 AM, Pieter Roos wrote:
As did their O gauge EP-5 electric, with EMD four wheel instead of six wheel trucks (Flyers was more accurate). Then again, an in-accurate Flyer Virginian might have generated more sales for AC Gilbert, and could have been painted New Haven orange.
Accuracy never deterred Lionel...
?
Rich G(ajnak)
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Re: Different coupler types on the same layout
<The Flyer couplers don’t close at slow speeds whereas KD’s do, so realistic switching is not an option with Flyer.> ? Flyer link couplers do close at very low speeds, that’s one of the reasons I prefer them to Flyer knuckle couplers.? You are quite correct about the knuckle coupler.? Another reason I like link couplers is that they are close coupling, the spaces between cars is more prototypical.? Same reason I prefer Kadee #5s over their 208s.? On my layout you will find Kadee #5s, Flyer link, and some Flyer knuckle with multiple conversion cars.? Oh, and Hi-rail, Flyer, and scale wheels. Tom Stoltz in Maine
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Re: LATEST PROJECT ON MILFORD VALLEY RR
So Fred, Do you just 0-5-0 cars up to the section? Does it have a dedicated set of cars to push around up there? I'd say you're well on your way with the photo stuff. Jamie Bothwell Bethlehem, PA
On Thu, Feb 13, 2025 at 10:49?AM Tom Nebelsick via <tnebelsick= [email protected]> wrote:
On Wed, Feb 12, 2025 at 7:06?PM Fred SCHLEGEL via <fredschlegel7= [email protected]> wrote: I had an eight inch x 8 foot space on the back side wall of my layout that needed to be filled to connect the Hudson Coal Co. mine to the Reinmiller Cattle Co at the other end of the layout. It is 31/2 inches taller than the layout? below it. I didn't want to connect it to the main layout because of the ramp it would take and no room to do it, so I just made it into a switching module to transfer coal cars and cattle?cars back and?forth. I am running it deadrail so no wiring was necessary. I have been having fun using my deadrail Bluenami equipped?SHS S1? CB&Q switcher to switch the area.? I also sent some pictures to Webmaster Peter for possible publication of which he said the phone pictures were to small to blow up for the website. So I down loaded?Brook Stovers layout photography article and bought a couple of LED photo lamps on tripods and set my Fugi?point and shoot camera on tripod and his setting suggestions. There is a lot to learn to get to his quality of photos but I feel I got a good start. I did send a few pictures to Terry Okelly? to see if they were good enough quality for the Dispatch. Will wait to see what he has to say. Here are a few shots of the switching module if just?finished from the coal mine.? There is a lot to learn and time consuming in trying to get a good picture but kind of a fun?project. Fred Schlegel
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DCC has had two ways to synchronize chuffs.? But I don't know if all decoders offered this.
One is a "chuff" input that you connect to a switch that is triggered by a cam on a driver axle (and as I recall, that is how PFM did it, as well as how Keller's "Onboard" system did it).? Of course, you have to have the cam and switch and the added wire.? Some have used on optical switch and the "cam" has black and white bands on it.
The newest scheme is better and uses Back EMF from the motor and a CV that relates to the ratio of motor RPM to driver RPM.? With BEMF the decoder knows the speed of the motor, and since it has a specific relationship to driver RPM, the decoder can just "do the math."? No cam.? No switch.? No wire.
Here is a YouTube showing an example of setting it.
Charles E. "Chuck" Kinzer
On Thursday, February 13, 2025 at 02:31:49 PM PST, Fred Tolhurst via groups.io <gftolhurst@...> wrote:
100% agree. The sound quality from the PFM system, in terms of both whistle and exhaust, for my money greatly surpassed anything I’ve heard from DCC. And, the steam exhaust was synchronized to the drivers’ rotation. Have to admit the lack of synchronicity between the audible chuffs and the visible motion of pistons and wheels with DCC systems drives me a little bonkers.? Fred Tolhurst
On Feb 11, 2025, at 10:03?PM, Bud Rindfleisch via groups.io <BlackDiamondRR@...> wrote:
?Andre, ? My apologies if my post was misunderstood but Bob W was talking about diode lighting and mentioned the “PFM system” this got me reminiscing about the old PFM throttle “system” and the fact that I liked the way the whistle could be played. I guess a different “system” altogether! This is supposed to be fun right? ? ? ? Bud Rindfleisch
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I have two Lionel K5 Pacifics that I got from my afore mentioned Uncle that have two wheel pilot trucks.? My AC Gilbert Pacific has the appropriate 4 wheel pilot truck.
Andrew Parker
As did their O gauge EP-5 electric, with EMD four wheel instead of six wheel trucks (Flyers was more accurate). Then again, an in-accurate Flyer Virginian might have generated more sales for AC Gilbert, and could have been painted New Haven orange.
On Wednesday, February 12, 2025, 7:37 PM, Charles Kinzer <ckinzer@...> wrote:
After Lionel stopped using Rivarossi, they did contract with Athearn.? And Athearn had the "Hi-F" drive for a while, and I think were the only ones that had it.? Athearn also bought the HObbyline (John English) diesel shell so some of the "Lionel" HO was a bit of a mashup.? The Virginian Rectifier that Athearn provided was interesting because it came on rather incorrect EMD Blomberg trucks from Athearn's "GP9.".
Charles E. "Chuck" Kinzer
On Wednesday, February 12, 2025 at 04:15:39 PM PST, ken garber via groups.io <garber.ken@...> wrote:
On Wed, Feb 12, 2025 at 6:56?PM Andrew Parker via <andriaart1= [email protected]> wrote:
Part of what I received was a Lionel HO gauge train set.? ?New Haven F units and passenger cars.? The traction was provided by spinning roods with rubber bands between the motor and the trucks.
Drive could have been made by Athearn.? ?The Athearn RDC and the Hustler (and maybe a few others) were rubber band drives.
At high speed they were guaranteed to fly off on a curve.
Ken G.
?
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100% agree. The sound quality from the PFM system, in terms of both whistle and exhaust, for my money greatly surpassed anything I’ve heard from DCC. And, the steam exhaust was synchronized to the drivers’ rotation. Have to admit the lack of synchronicity between the audible chuffs and the visible motion of pistons and wheels with DCC systems drives me a little bonkers.? Fred Tolhurst
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On Feb 11, 2025, at 10:03?PM, Bud Rindfleisch via groups.io <BlackDiamondRR@...> wrote:
?Andre, ? My apologies if my post was misunderstood but Bob W was talking about diode lighting and mentioned the “PFM system” this got me reminiscing about the old PFM throttle “system” and the fact that I liked the way the whistle could be played. I guess a different “system” altogether! This is supposed to be fun right? ? ? ? Bud Rindfleisch
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Re: The Death of S Scale: An Outsider's Opinion
Jim,
I'm looking forward to seeing what you come up with in terms of a switching layout!? I'm sure it will be inspirational!
?
My experience has been that smaller does not have to mean less engaging!
Brooks
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Re: Different coupler types on the same layout
The Flyer couplers don’t close at slow speeds whereas KD’s do, so realistic switching is not an option with Flyer.
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Re: The Death of S Scale: An Outsider's Opinion
Jim:
?
Congrats on still being an active model railroader at 80 years of age!
?
What you're describing is SO important to us as we age. Namely: GOALS which gives?us things to ACCOMPLISH.
?
When our dreams n' schemes stop, I think a lot of the fun of living stops.
?
In your case, you're not only downsizing, but also looking at new horizons. I see both of those as good things.
?
As for changing rail size:
?
IF I already had an S scale layout, as long as it was still clicking the boxes for me, I would sit tight and enjoy it as long as practical. I suspect the larger size of S, be it on scale sized rail or Hi Rail, is a good thing when it comes to aging.
?
In my case, I am beginning to perceive that it will seem?HO will feel like it's?getting smaller as time goes by. As I continue to age (hopefully I will continue to age!), there may come a time that the Hassle Factor will rise above?the Fun Factor. If/when that happens, it will be time for me to make a decision.
?
I think that Hassle Factor vs Fun Factor is a reason for layouts to start to languish?and?start collecting dust: The H Factor supassed the F Factor, and thus the owner no long enjoys working therein.
?
That HF vs FF scale plays a role in any interest/hobby.
?
Andre Ming
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----- Original Message -----
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] The Death of S Scale: An Outsider's Opinion
I'm enjoying the thread that Andre's posting has generated. I too am accumulating orbits of the sun. I'll be 80 in a few weeks. I am not increasing my rail size but I have decreased my layout. There will be more about that in a future Dispatch, but I recently gave away more than half my Dover Branch layout while keeping its supporting benchwork in place. My original Port Dover waterfront sections remain and I am building a train turntable so that I can operate it as a small switching layout. The remaining empty benchwork is now inspiring me to possibly attempt a few new different layout themes.? We'll see. Onward!
Cheers
Jim Martin?
?
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Re: Different coupler types on the same layout
Conversion cars are nothing new. Back when I was a child with AF, I had some cars?with a knuckle coupler on one end and a link coupler on the other end.?
I seem to remember a prototype narrow gauge hopper (ballast) car with a?full size coupler on one end and a 3/4MCB?coupler on the other end. On my layout, I have a dual gauge conversion car so I can run standard and 3' gauge cars in the same train on three-rail dual gauge track. Yes there are prototypes for this and Rio Grande Models made a kit for them.
Dave Heine
On Thu, Feb 13, 2025 at 3:56?PM Jim & Cheryl Martin via <themartins= [email protected]> wrote:
Roger Haag wrote:
One yard has Flyer couplers and the other yard has Kadee?
HI Roger.
If you want to run both Flyer and Kadee couplers on your layout, you will benefit from an idea from the Old Days when several different coupler types were vying for popularity in HO. Kadee won out of course, but for a while there were also the X2F, Baker, Mantua and other variations of hook and loop.
What you need are two coupler conversion cars, each with a Flyer coupler on one end and a Kadee on the other. Either car would allow a Kadee equipped loco to pull a string of Flyer equipped cars, or vice versa, a Flyer loco to haul Kadee equipped cars.
Or hook the two cars altogether...Kadee to Kadee, and run them in a train of Flyer cars...or Flyer to Flyer to operate in a string of Kadee-equipped cars. Maximum flexibility.
Cheers Jim Martin
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Re: The Death of S Scale: An Outsider's Opinion
I'm enjoying the thread that Andre's posting has generated. I too am accumulating orbits of the sun. I'll be 80 in a few weeks. I am not increasing my rail size but I have decreased my layout. There will be more about that in a future Dispatch, but I recently gave away more than half my Dover Branch layout while keeping its supporting benchwork in place. My original Port Dover waterfront sections remain and I am building a train turntable so that I can operate it as a small switching layout. The remaining empty benchwork is now inspiring me to possibly attempt a few new different layout themes.? We'll see. Onward!
Cheers Jim Martin?
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Re: Different coupler types on the same layout
Roger Haag wrote:
One yard has Flyer couplers and the other yard has Kadee?
HI Roger.
If you want to run both Flyer and Kadee couplers on your layout, you will benefit from an idea from the Old Days when several different coupler types were vying for popularity in HO. Kadee won out of course, but for a while there were also the X2F, Baker, Mantua and other variations of hook and loop.
What you need are two coupler conversion cars, each with a Flyer coupler on one end and a Kadee on the other. Either car would allow a Kadee equipped loco to pull a string of Flyer equipped cars, or vice versa, a Flyer loco to haul Kadee equipped cars.
Or hook the two cars altogether...Kadee to Kadee, and run them in a train of Flyer cars...or Flyer to Flyer to operate in a string of Kadee-equipped cars. Maximum flexibility.
Cheers Jim Martin
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Hard to believe that any HO mfg'er would be proud of that mess of a drive design.
?
LOL!
?
Andre
?
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----- Original Message -----
?
Well, not quite, more of a hybrid.? See attached...
?
Athearn used the rubber band drive for years.? Their RDC's and Hustlers never had gear drive.? My first Athearn set had rubber band drive.
?
BTW: Flyer HO also used Mantua streamline passenger cars and used a modified Mantua General set for the HO Frontiersman set.
?
Rich G(ajnak)
?
?
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While Gilbert did use the Mantua/Tyco General set for their FY&P old timer in HO, it is just the opposite as to the streamline passenger cars.? Actually Mantua/Tyco used Gilbert streamline passenger bodies on their own chassis in 1959.?? Mantua was phasing out their shorty aluminum cars and didn't have their own plastic versions ready to go yet.? These 1959 Mantua/Tyco by Gilbert are longer cars by about one window than the later Mantua manufactured cars.? For full details see
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On 2/13/2025 11:31 AM, Rich Gajnak via groups.io wrote: BTW: Flyer HO also used Mantua streamline passenger cars and used a modified Mantua General set for the HO Frontiersman set.
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Tom: Glycerine is a carbohydrate, not an oil.? I believe it is in a group of what are called "sugar alcohols".? It is completely soluble in water.? Google it!?? Google probably has a more succinct explanation than this
wobbly bodied, shaking hands, poor visioned, S-Scale, model building microbiologist can provide... ?.
BTW, I sent a private note to Mike S.? I would hardly call his Frisco model "just another boxcar" - really nice work Mike! Jim Kindraka Grand Rapids, MI
On Thu, Feb 13, 2025 at 1:51?PM Tom Lennon wrote:
I jest Mike, but isn't glycerine an oil? Is it water soluble?
I also watched a YouTube video that recommended using windshield washer fluid. Took me a couple of hours to disassemble the airbrush and clean out the solidified acrylic...but I'm still having fun. Tommy?
|
Then definitely not "Hi-F."? However, the earlier Athearn metal RDC's did have gear drive.? Vertical motor on the front truck.? But I think we are spinning off on a topic more suited to the VintageHO group.
Charles E "Chuck" Kinzer
On Thursday, February 13, 2025 at 11:31:20 AM PST, Rich Gajnak via groups.io <rustytraque@...> wrote:
On Thu, Feb 13, 2025 at 11:09 AM, JGG KahnSr wrote:
The High-F drive was an attempt to cut costs to bring more budget-conscious people into the scale; it was not a success, and?
they soon returned to a decent geared drive.
?
Well, not quite, more of a hybrid.? See attached...
?
Athearn used the rubber band drive for years.? Their RDC's and Hustlers never had gear drive.? My first Athearn set had rubber band drive.
?
BTW: Flyer HO also used Mantua streamline passenger cars and used a modified Mantua General set for the HO Frontiersman set.
?
Rich G(ajnak)
?
?
|
On Thu, Feb 13, 2025 at 11:09 AM, JGG KahnSr wrote:
The High-F drive was an attempt to cut costs to bring more budget-conscious people into the scale; it was not a success, and?
they soon returned to a decent geared drive.
?
Well, not quite, more of a hybrid.? See attached...
?
Athearn used the rubber band drive for years.? Their RDC's and Hustlers never had gear drive.? My first Athearn set had rubber band drive.
?
BTW: Flyer HO also used Mantua streamline passenger cars and used a modified Mantua General set for the HO Frontiersman set.
?
Rich G(ajnak)
?
?
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As I recall (being a long-time HO modeler until I went to O scale forty-five years ago), AF also
used the Varney hoppers and tank cars.
The High-F drive was an attempt to cut costs to bring more budget-conscious people into the scale; it was not a success, and?
they soon returned to a decent geared drive.
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Show quoted text
And a bit more useless trivia--in HO, Gilbert used the Varney F unit as their's.? I don't know if it was the entire unit or just the shell.? I think it was also mentioned that a couple of the freight cars came from other sources too.
I was always admiring Gilbert's version of the North Coast Limited.? The S version with it's PA's just didn't float!? The North Coast Limited was one of a very few passenger consists i'd ever seen 1:1
Bob Werre
After Lionel stopped using Rivarossi, they did contract with Athearn.? And Athearn had the "Hi-F" drive for a while, and I think were the only ones that had it.? Athearn also bought the HObbyline (John English) diesel shell so some of the "Lionel" HO was a
bit of a mashup.? The Virginian Rectifier that Athearn provided was interesting because it came on rather incorrect EMD Blomberg trucks from Athearn's "GP9.".
Charles E. "Chuck" Kinzer
On Wednesday, February 12, 2025 at 04:15:39 PM PST, ken garber via groups.io
<garber.ken@...>?wrote:
On Wed, Feb 12, 2025 at 6:56?PM Andrew Parker via ?<andriaart1= [email protected]> wrote:
Part of what I received was a Lionel HO gauge train set.? ?New Haven F units and passenger cars.? The traction was provided by spinning roods with rubber bands between the motor and the trucks.
Drive could have been made by Athearn.? ?The Athearn RDC and the Hustler (and maybe a few others) were rubber band drives.
At high speed they were guaranteed to fly off on a curve.
Ken G.
?
|
And a bit more useless trivia--in HO,
Gilbert used the Varney F unit as their's.? I don't know if it was
the entire unit or just the shell.? I think it was also mentioned
that a couple of the freight cars came from other sources too.
I was always admiring Gilbert's version
of the North Coast Limited.? The S version with it's PA's just
didn't float!? The North Coast Limited was one of a very few
passenger consists i'd ever seen 1:1
Bob Werre
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
After Lionel stopped using
Rivarossi, they did contract with Athearn.? And Athearn had
the "Hi-F" drive for a while, and I think were the only ones
that had it.? Athearn also bought the HObbyline (John English)
diesel shell so some of the "Lionel" HO was a bit of a
mashup.? The Virginian Rectifier that Athearn provided was
interesting because it came on rather incorrect EMD Blomberg
trucks from Athearn's "GP9.".
Charles E. "Chuck" Kinzer
On Wednesday, February 12, 2025 at 04:15:39 PM PST, ken
garber via groups.io <garber.ken@...>
wrote:
On
Wed, Feb 12, 2025 at 6:56?PM Andrew Parker via
<andriaart1= [email protected]>
wrote:
Part of what I received was a
Lionel HO gauge train set.? ?New Haven F
units and passenger cars.? The traction was
provided by spinning roods with rubber bands
between the motor and the trucks.
Drive could have been made by Athearn.? ?The
Athearn RDC and the Hustler (and maybe a few
others) were rubber band drives.
At high speed they were guaranteed to fly off
on a curve.
Ken G.
?
|
Bob Werre