RandomGram@groups.io

Re: Slashed zero Font???

?Dan,

To print slashed zeros try the following fonts:

Courier
Lucida
Console
Consolas
Terminal

BTW, when you submit your copied groups always type them by hitting the "0" number key on the keyboard. Scandinavian letter O and the diameter symbol are not substitutes for numeral zero.

73,
Drew/AF2Z

Show quoted text

On Fri, Apr 5, 2024 at 04:35 PM, Dan W9DLN wrote:

Is there a font I can print the list in that will tell the difference between 0 and O???

Slashed zero Font???

#234

Is there a font I can print the list in that will tell the difference between 0 and O???

Re: Event #12 - Tue Apr 9th #event_notice

#233

Bummer,
I'll be on the road during this event. I can listen in from the mobile so y'all have fun and make lots of noise i can listen to.?

Randy_KB4QQJ

Re: Which event type(s) do you prefer? #poll-notice

#232

Hi Randy,

Yes, that's a drawback of shorter events-- they must necessarily be at a
time that is inconvenient to many, or that gets eaten up by some interruption.

I would definitely like to have a long event again at some point but I
think it should wait until there are more participants.

73,
Drew/AF2Z

Show quoted text

On 4/2/2024 08:25, Randy KO4WTM wrote:

If I may weigh in on this, I would like a longer event at least once in
a while. Twice I have been unable to participate due to south Florida
thunderstorms (with the usual lightning). A longer event would give time
for storms to pass and provide a window of opportunity for participation.

Randy
KO4WTM <>

On Sun, Mar 31, 2024 at 12:02 Drew AF2Z <pubx1@...
<mailto:pubx1@...>> wrote:

Hi Vern,

Longer events would definitely not have a 25 or 10 group limit.

A longer event is not out of the question but I think we'll stick
with the 2-hour format for a while, at least until there are a
greater number of participants.

Drew/AF2Z

On Sun, Mar 31, 2024 at 11:43 AM, Vern NJ8L wrote:

You might want to have a vote as to how long the RG will be.
IMHO the unlimited RG favors a > 2 hr event while the shorter
RGs tend to favor the 2 hr time. I’d like the 10/25 RG be 2 hr
while the unlimited RG would be 4-5 hrs.
--
NJ8L 13613S Vern

Re: Which event type(s) do you prefer? #poll-notice

#231

If I may weigh in on this, I would like a longer event at least once in a while. Twice I have been unable to participate due to south Florida thunderstorms (with the usual lightning). A longer event would give time for storms to pass and provide a window of opportunity for participation.?

Randy

Show quoted text

On Sun, Mar 31, 2024 at 12:02 Drew AF2Z <pubx1@...> wrote:

Hi Vern,

Longer events would definitely not have a 25 or 10 group limit.

A longer event is not out of the question but I think we'll stick with the 2-hour format for a while, at least until there are a greater number of participants.

Drew/AF2Z

On Sun, Mar 31, 2024 at 11:43 AM, Vern NJ8L wrote:

You might want to have a vote as to how long the RG will be. IMHO the unlimited RG favors a > 2 hr event while the shorter RGs tend to favor the 2 hr time. I’d like the 10/25 RG be 2 hr while the unlimited RG would be 4-5 hrs.?
--
NJ8L 13613S Vern

Re: Which event type(s) do you prefer? #poll-notice

#230

Hi Jim,

That would require a stricter submission format: five groups per line,
or per log entry. Currently there is no real format for submitting
copied groups, other than that they be typed data, not image files.

Also, with a 5-gram event there would be no partial credit for getting 3
or 4 groups correct; it would be all five or nothing.

People in marginal areas might find it pretty tough.

73,
Drew/AF2Z

Show quoted text

On 3/31/2024 19:23, Jim KK0U wrote:

Indeed. I like the variety, and would like to see an event where 5x5L
groups are sent each QSO.

7e, Jim KK0U

Re: Revised Procedure for Multiple Same-band Contacts [was RG operating procedures and joining teams]

#229

I agree. Thanks, Drew.

Re: Event #12 - Tue Apr 9th #event_notice

#228

I forgot to mention in the RG #12 notice posted earlier...

We will be using alpha-numeric groups for this event. Previous events used alpha characters only. If you hand write your copied groups (for later typing) you will probably want to make sure you distinguish between 0 and O, and between I and 1. Not all groups will have numerals. Also, some groups could resemble call signs.

73,
Drew/AF2Z
RG Mgr

Event #12 - Tue Apr 9th #event_notice

#227
Edited

Welcome to RandomGram Event Nr. 12

Date/Time: Apr 9th @ 15:00 - 17:00 UTC. That is Tuesday morning or afternoon for most.

Please note, there is a new procedure for making multiple same-band contacts. Info HERE. Please give it a try this event!
Also, we will be using alpha-numeric code groups for this event. (Previous events used alpha character groups only.)

New TX Lists (code groups) are available now for this event. Code groups from previous events are not valid and will not score. Obtain a registered TX List by emailing your call sign to the Group Owner email address at? [email protected]

Objective: This is a "25 group" event. Each participant is limited to one Tx List of 25 code groups. The top tier for TX scores is 50 points (2-pts per group). You will probably want to loop through your transmit list more than once and resend your groups to ensure they all get logged and reported by other stations. RX points and total score are unlimited: log as many groups as you can in additional QSOs and SWL intercepts..

Teams: Teams are listed in the Roster & Results message post for this event (see below). Additional teams are available by request. Team membership is open to all and is completely optional. Operating on a team is no different than otherwise. Team scores are the sum of individual members' scores. If you're interested in joining a team for this event just email your call sign and team preference to [email protected]

Suggested Frequencies: 50-60 kHz above the bottom of non-WARC HF bands, conditions permitting. Other frequencies in the band may prove better depending on your region or QRM from other ongoing events. 7028 kHz is popular in some regions.

Suggested Spotting Page: RG participants are invited to use the SKCC SkedPage at (SKCC Members who post or self-spot on the SkedPage-- please be prepared to provide an SKCC style exchange for callers who request it.)

Operating Tips:

- A transmitted group earns 2-points; a received group is 1-point (if accurately transmitted, copied and reported);
- Work the same stations on the same band multiple times and exchange additional code groups (see new procedure here )
- Transmit one new code group with every contact;
- For additional points monitor other stations: log and submit code groups they exchange (SWL/intercept);
- Submit your updated log or list of received code groups to obtain your current score.

For additional operating info see the RandomGram FAQ? HERE.

SWL Entries: Even if you don't transmit any code groups you can still earn Rx points by submitting groups you have logged while monitoring other stations. Your confirmation of other stations' transmitted groups helps them to earn Tx points.

Deadline for submitting your copied groups: the sooner, the better. Other operators depend on your confirmation of their transmitted groups.

Roster & Results for this event are posted HERE.

Have fun!

73,
Drew - AF2Z
RandomGram Mgr

Event #12 - Roster & Results #scores

#226
Edited

Roster & Results for RG Event Nr. 12

Tuesday Apr 9th @ 15:00 - 17:00 UTC (2 hours)

There is a limit of 25 code groups per Tx List & one list per operator for this event. Please see the event description posted HERE

------------------------------------------------
RandomGram Scores (Updated: 2024/04/11 17:58 UTC)

Call ? ? ?Team ? ? ? ? ? ? TX ? ? ?RX ? ? ?Tot
------ ? ?----------- ? ?---- ? ?---- ? ?-----
K0RO ? ? ?StraightKey ? ? ?50 ? ? ?61 ? ? ?111
W9DLN ? ? StraightKey ? ? ?50 ? ? ?61 ? ? ?111
W0BZ ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? 48 ? ? ?69 ? ? ?117
WM4Q ? ? ?Bug ? ? ? ? ? ? ?48 ? ? ?39 ? ? ? 87
AF2Z ? ? ?Sideswiper ? ? ? 46 ? ? ?61 ? ? ?107
K5KV ? ? ?Bug ? ? ? ? ? ? ?46 ? ? ?47 ? ? ? 93
K1DJ ? ? ?CWops ? ? ? ? ? ?46 ? ? ?42 ? ? ? 88
K9VKY ? ? Bug ? ? ? ? ? ? ?46 ? ? ?19 ? ? ? 65
WA9AQN ? ?Bug ? ? ? ? ? ? ?44 ? ? ?66 ? ? ?110
ND9M ? ? ?Sideswiper ? ? ? 42 ? ? ?61 ? ? ?103
NJ8L ? ? ?Sideswiper ? ? ? 26 ? ? ?35 ? ? ? 61
N8DNA ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?22 ? ? ?43 ? ? ? 65
KN4HAQ ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? 20 ? ? ?39 ? ? ? 59
AI9IN ? ? StraightKey ? ? ?20 ? ? ?24 ? ? ? 44
N3KRX ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?14 ? ? ?52 ? ? ? 66
VE3WH ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?14 ? ? ?35 ? ? ? 49
W5LA ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? 14 ? ? ?15 ? ? ? 29
K7SHR ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?12 ? ? ? 6 ? ? ? 18
N7RCS ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?10 ? ? ? - ? ? ? 10
K4ARQ ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? 8 ? ? ?14 ? ? ? 22
AC2C ? ? ?Sideswiper ? ? ? ?6 ? ? ?13 ? ? ? 19
K4CTF ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? 6 ? ? ? - ? ? ? ?6
VE6VIC ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?4 ? ? ?10 ? ? ? 14
KD9KHA ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?4 ? ? ? 9 ? ? ? 13
OE1WYC ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?4 ? ? ? 2 ? ? ? ?6
OE7FTJ ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?4 ? ? ? 2 ? ? ? ?6
VE4STG ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?4 ? ? ? 2 ? ? ? ?6
K0FL ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?4 ? ? ? - ? ? ? ?4
KF6NCX ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?2 ? ? ? 4 ? ? ? ?6
N5DCH ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? 2 ? ? ? 1 ? ? ? ?3
KC6D ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?2 ? ? ? - ? ? ? ?2
VE2KM ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? 2 ? ? ? - ? ? ? ?2
W4QDV ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? - ? ? ?13 ? ? ? 13

Team ? ? ? ? ? Mbrs ? ? Avg ? ? ?Tot
----------- ? ?---- ? ?---- ? ?-----
StraightKey ? ? ? 3 ? ?? 89 ? ?? 266
Bug ? ? ? ? ? ? ? 4 ? ? ?89 ? ? ?355
Sideswiper ? ? ? ?4 ? ? ?73 ? ? ?290
CWops ? ? ? ? ? ? 1 ? ? ?88 ? ? ? 88

TX = Transmit points (2-pts per code group)
RX = Copy points (1-pt per code group)
Mbrs = Nr of members on team
Avg = Average score per team member
------------------------------------------------

-end-

Re: Which event type(s) do you prefer? #poll-notice

#225

Indeed. I like the variety, and would like to see an event where 5x5L groups are sent each QSO.?

7e, Jim KK0U

Re: Which event type(s) do you prefer? #poll-notice

#224

I've said it in the sked chat, I really like the variety.? Tbh even more variety would be fun.? It's a random gram after all :)

Re: Which event type(s) do you prefer? #poll-notice

#223

Hi Vern,

Longer events would definitely not have a 25 or 10 group limit.

A longer event is not out of the question but I think we'll stick with the 2-hour format for a while, at least until there are a greater number of participants.

Drew/AF2Z

Show quoted text

On Sun, Mar 31, 2024 at 11:43 AM, Vern NJ8L wrote:

You might want to have a vote as to how long the RG will be. IMHO the unlimited RG favors a > 2 hr event while the shorter RGs tend to favor the 2 hr time. I’d like the 10/25 RG be 2 hr while the unlimited RG would be 4-5 hrs.?
--
NJ8L 13613S Vern

Re: Revised Procedure for Multiple Same-band Contacts [was RG operating procedures and joining teams]

#222

Good clarification

Re: Which event type(s) do you prefer? #poll-notice

#221

You might want to have a vote as to how long the RG will be. IMHO the unlimited RG favors a > 2 hr event while the shorter RGs tend to favor the 2 hr time. I’d like the 10/25 RG be 2 hr while the unlimited RG would be 4-5 hrs.?
--
NJ8L 13613S Vern

Which event type(s) do you prefer? #poll-notice

#220

Up till now we've been alternating between three RG event types, based on how many code groups are distributed to participants: 10 groups, 25 groups, or unlimited groups. Each event type has different strategies and different objectives.

Please select the event type(s) you would like to see in future events. You can select more than one choice.

You can change your selections any time by simply casting another vote. The poll will remain open indefinitely. Your vote is anonymous.

You can post followup comments to this message but your comments won't count as votes; you must cast a vote at the poll link.

Thank you for voting.

Results

Revised Procedure for Multiple Same-band Contacts [was RG operating procedures and joining teams]

#219
Edited

The multi-contact rule was revised for RG#12 and after. It now requires that you must attempt to contact a different station before making a repeat same-band contact with a previously worked station. As explained below, actual contact with a different station is not required but an attempt must be made:

From the FAQ /g/RG/message/2

10. How can I make multiple same-band contacts with a station?

You can contact the same station multiple times on the same band as long as you attempt to work other stations after each such contact. This can be done either by responding to a CQ RG transmitted by another station, or by transmitting your own CQ RG. An actual contact is not required to be completed but the attempt must be made.

From the rules /g/RG/message/1

QSO:

- A QSO is defined as a contact you make either by calling CQ RG or by replying to a CQ RG (see example CQ's below).
- Transmit only one new group per QSO.
- You can make multiple same-band contacts with a station as long as you either transmit CQ RG, or attempt to answer the CQ RG transmitted by another station, after each contact.

Example CQ's:

??? CQ RG DE AF2Z K
??? CQ RG AF2Z

An operating example...

You respond to my CQ. After we complete the exchange I start CQ'ing again. In order for you to call me again you must first try to contact some other station. You can do that in either of two ways: reply to another station's CQ; or call CQ yourself (on your own frequency!). Even if the station you call does not respond to you (or if no one answers your CQ), you are then free to call me again.

The above restriction will produce more on-air activity than simply "poaching" a single station with multiple sequential contacts. But it still allows operators in marginal areas with poor propagation to make as many multiple contacts as they like with only a few reachable stations.

If you have any questions please let me know.

73,
Drew/AF2Z
RG Mgr

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On Wed, Mar 27, 2024 at 01:30 PM, Larry KF6NCX wrote:

In his last post, Drew mentioned contacting the same station multiple times.? Are there certain operating procedures for doing this?? For example, if I hear a station loud and clear on 15 meters, I might call him and exchange RGs.? What about exchanging additional RGs with him?

Question 1:? I assume to exchange more RGs with him, I need to call him again the next time he calls CQ, and again, the following time he calls CQ and so on.? A few events ago, I heard two ops just exchanging RGs without initiating new contacts.? I assume that is not exactly legitimate ... or is it?? Essentially, they were simply hooked up in one qso and exchanging one RG after another without a break. I'm guessing it is necessary to call the CQing station again, give a signal report, give your name again and send your next RG, right?

Question 2:? If you are working the same person, should you leave a break between qsos?? For example, in the last event, I heard Hiro calling CQ on 15 meters and I worked him.? Then I searched again for others on 15, didn't hear any, so I worked Hiro a second time.? Then I went over to 20 and worked a few guys.? Then went back and worked Hiro on 15 again.? Would it have been legit for me to just hang out on Hiro's 15-meter frequency and just have one qso after another (if no one else was calling him) and dispose of my RGs that way?

Question 3:? What is the proper way to join a team?? For the last event, I thought I did what was necessary, but it was pretty last minute, and now I see I wasn't assigned to a team.? It's no big deal, but in the future, I'd like to be on a team.? Is the key to just sign up early?

Sorry if I seem "uptight" and obsessed with propriety here.

73,
Larry

Re: RG operating procedures and joining teams

#218

What Dan, Jim, and Drew said.? I'll add one thing.? As I S&P and find a CQer that's going at a good clip, and after I've tx'd one of my RGs with them, I may camp out on their freq to SWL the CQer's and their callers' RGs.? If (when!) they call CQ and nobody answers after a sufficient amount of time, and it's inevitable they're about to call CQ again, that's when I'll go ahead and call and give them another of my RG that they don't already have.? I tend to let anybody and everybody else through that's calling though, and only call if they're about to waste their (and my) time calling CQ again.? I believe this is a friendly approach.

Different strategies for the different variants of the game (cqing vs s&p), as Dan mentioned.? But your question was operating procedures regarding calling the same station multiple times and I hope that answered it, or at least my take on it.? I don't think S&P and fighting other callers to exchange an RG with the same CQer back to back to back is a friendly approach.? Nor very smart, imo, if one's going to do that then just CQ yourself.?

I haven't been tops on the leaderboard yet, but pretty sure those who have didn't receive a medal, so anything other than a friendly approach that follows both the rules and the spirit of the game doesn't make sense to me.? When Drew starts giving out cash prizes I'll take that back and change my strategy ;)

Jason KO4NDP

Re: RG operating procedures and joining teams

#217
Edited

Hi Benny,

[Inline replies follow. Select "Show Quoted Text"]

Show quoted text

On 3/27/2024 16:06, BENNY K5KV wrote:

SENDING GROUPS OTHERS SENDING GROUPS TWICE CAUSES SWL MODE TO WASTE
TIME.? YOU DO NOT GET CREDIT WHEN YOU COPY THE SAME GROUP TWICE.? I
CAUGHT 9 BEFORE I SENT IN MY LIST,? THE SCORING SYSTEM CAUGHT MANY MORE.

That's part of the challenge: in a 10-group or 25-group limited event. You do not want to park your vfo on just one station only and copy all of their groups. Otherwise you will eventually be copying repeat groups, which will not score additional points. The better course of action will be to SWL many different stations.

I WISH WE COULD HAVE ENOUGH GROUPS THAT NO ONE NEEDED TO SEND ONE
TWICE.? THEY DO NOT COST ANYONE ANYTHING.? TWO POINTS IS TWO POINTS BUT
TWO MORE POINTS IF YOU SEND A NEW GROUP, NOT A RE-SEND.? WE DID NOT NEED
TO WORRY ABOUT THE DUPE GROUPS BEFORE GROUPS WERE LIMITED.

There are more than enough code groups to do unlimited events every time. The limited group events are simply a change of pace requiring a different operating strategy if you are trying to maximize score. They are also preferred by more people than the unlimited events.

THE TEAMS SHOULD BE SET BEFORE THE EVENT STARTS.? THE STRAIGHT KEY TEAM
DOUBLED IN SIZE AFTER IT WAS OVER.? SOMETHING VERY FISHY THERE.

The advantage is for team members to know who their fellow team members are before and during the event. But there's no reason why team membership can't be declared later when submitting results and after the event has ended. There is no advantage to doing that and certainly nothing fishy about it.

THERE IS NOTHING HISTORICAL ABOUT ONE GROUP PER QSO.? BACK IN THE DAY IT
WAS MANY GROUPS PER MESSAGE.? I COPIED 15 MESSAGES ON ONE HAM NTS NET IN
THE 48 YEARS I WAS ACTIVE IN NTS.? NTS MESSAGES USED TO BE LIMITED TO 25
WORDS.? THAT IS TWICE THE AMOUNT OF LETTER THE 10 GROUPS HAVE.

RandomGram has little to do with NTS or historical precedent. I suppose we could have events where 25 code groups are exchanged in each QSO and all must be copied correctly in order to score. Or perhaps, code groups that are 50 characters in length, which would all need to be copied correctly. But that probably wouldn't be as popular.

IT WAS FUN DOING THE RANDOM GRAM EVENTS WHEN IT WAS A CHALLENGE BUT A
TEN GROUP LIMIT FOR TWO HOURS AND ALL THE SENDING GROUPS TWICE IS NOT
FOR ME.

Since we started doing two events per month we've been alternating among three different formats: 10-group limit; 25-group limit; and unlimited. As mentioned, each provides a different strategy and focus if you are trying to maximize your score. Of course, for those who are not trying for maximum score they can all be operated pretty much the same.

FWIW, a future event will have alpha-numeric groups (up till now we've only been using alphabetic characters. This would probably be more of a challenge in a 25-group limited event than in an unlimited event.

Anyhow, I am open to suggestions & comments (like or dislike) about the group-limited events. I think the limited events do provide a built-in objective for participants to make at least 10 or 25 QSOs in order to achieve the TX 20 or TX 50 point goals.

73
BENNY K5KV

73,
Drew/AF2Z

Re: RG operating procedures and joining teams

BENNY K5KV

#216

SENDING GROUPS OTHERS SENDING GROUPS TWICE CAUSES SWL MODE TO WASTE TIME.? YOU DO NOT GET CREDIT WHEN YOU COPY THE SAME GROUP TWICE.? I CAUGHT 9 BEFORE I SENT IN MY LIST,? THE SCORING SYSTEM CAUGHT MANY MORE.

?

I WISH WE COULD HAVE ENOUGH GROUPS THAT NO ONE NEEDED TO SEND ONE TWICE.? THEY DO NOT COST ANYONE ANYTHING.? TWO POINTS IS TWO POINTS BUT TWO MORE POINTS IF YOU SEND A NEW GROUP, NOT A RE-SEND.? WE DID NOT NEED TO WORRY ABOUT THE DUPE GROUPS BEFORE GROUPS WERE LIMITED.

?

THE TEAMS SHOULD BE SET BEFORE THE EVENT STARTS.? THE STRAIGHT KEY TEAM DOUBLED IN SIZE AFTER IT WAS OVER.? SOMETHING VERY FISHY THERE.

?

THERE IS NOTHING HISTORICAL ABOUT ONE GROUP PER QSO.? BACK IN THE DAY IT WAS MANY GROUPS PER MESSAGE.? I COPIED 15 MESSAGES ON ONE HAM NTS NET IN THE 48 YEARS I WAS ACTIVE IN NTS.? NTS MESSAGES USED TO BE LIMITED TO 25 WORDS.? THAT IS TWICE THE AMOUNT OF LETTER THE 10 GROUPS HAVE.

?

IT WAS FUN DOING THE RANDOM GRAM EVENTS WHEN IT WAS A CHALLENGE BUT A TEN GROUP LIMIT FOR TWO HOURS AND ALL THE SENDING GROUPS TWICE IS NOT FOR ME.?

?

73

BENNY K5KV

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