Re: Rutherford Helmet and Story (Helmets in Culver City Race Film)
Bart:
?
??? Thank you for sharing more of the great helmet photos.? And I had totally forgotten about Harley Davidson being in the helmet business back then.
?
Randall Cook
Indianapolis, IN
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Re: Helmets in Culver City Race Film/Aviation impact/Seat belts
Bob:
?
??? Thanks for the great aviation information.? And as you say there were some racing applications that weren't good at all.? Formula One drivers were still racing without any restraint systems into the late 1960s.? Here's a photo of Johnnie Tolan and Freddie Agabashian at Indianapolis in 1956 with some kind of seat with the belts mounted to seat itself.? I'm not sure of the origin of this seat.? One of the worst racing crashes where belts were mounted to the seat and not the frame was that of Marshall Teague at Daytona in 1959.? The entire cockpit area was basically intact and the roll bar never got a scratch on it.? But Teague was thrown through the canopy on the Sumar Streamliner and landed 150 feet away on the track still strapped into the seat which had broken from its mountings.
?
Randall Cook
Indianapolis, IN
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On Sun, Oct 20, 2024 at 6:50?PM Bart Stevens via <kurtis.kraft= [email protected]> wrote: Welcome and Congrats! ? Can you share a photo of the Skulgard? ? Bart Stevens Irving, TX ? From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of David Rex
Sent: Sunday, October 20, 2024 3:25 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: [RH] Helmets ? In 2007 I bought a SKULGARD helmet that was manufactured by Charles Owen and Company, London. It is white leather with white ear flaps.? It was worn by Terry Chapman, who raced for Lotus Cars and was the 2nd cousin of Colin Chapman.? ? I still have the Bell open face helmet that I wore while racing a B Production Corvette in 1967. It has a Snell?sticker serial 50172. I tied a nomex cloth around my mouth. When I bought the #19 Hillegass midget I got a well used SHOEI full face helmet with a 1975 Snell Memorial Foundation sticker on it.? I've been a member of RH for several years and this is my first post! Dave Rex, Williamsburg, VA -- Bart Stevens
Irving TX USA?
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Welcome and Congrats! ? Can you share a photo of the Skulgard? ? Bart Stevens Irving, TX ?
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From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of David Rex
Sent: Sunday, October 20, 2024 3:25 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: [RH] Helmets ? In 2007 I bought a SKULGARD helmet that was manufactured by Charles Owen and Company, London. It is white leather with white ear flaps.? It was worn by Terry Chapman, who raced for Lotus Cars and was the 2nd cousin of Colin Chapman.? ? I still have the Bell open face helmet that I wore while racing a B Production Corvette in 1967. It has a Snell?sticker serial 50172. I tied a nomex cloth around my mouth. When I bought the #19 Hillegass midget I got a well used SHOEI full face helmet with a 1975 Snell Memorial Foundation sticker on it.? I've been a member of RH for several years and this is my first post! Dave Rex, Williamsburg, VA -- Bart Stevens
Irving TX USA?
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In 2007 I bought a SKULGARD helmet that was manufactured by Charles Owen and Company, London. It is white leather with white ear flaps.? It was worn by Terry Chapman, who raced for Lotus Cars and was the 2nd cousin of Colin Chapman.? I still have the Bell open face helmet that I wore while racing a B Production Corvette in 1967. It has a Snell?sticker serial 50172. I tied a nomex cloth around my mouth.
When I bought the #19 Hillegass midget I got a well used SHOEI full face helmet with a 1975 Snell Memorial Foundation sticker on it.?
I've been a member of RH for several years and this is my first post!
Dave Rex, Williamsburg, VA
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Re: Rutherford Helmet and Story (Helmets in Culver City Race Film)
Randall, ? Yes there was a natural progression to the helmets. Rutherford used the McHal, then the Bell and then Simpson. ? Here is Johnny’s late 1960s Bell Star, which he says he got right after Gurney got his. Gurney is credited with using the first closed face helmet in Champ Car. It has a SNELL 1968 tag. (JSR4082) ? As the full face helmet evolved Johnny used the Bell helmets through the 1970s. Here is Johnny’s 1979 Budweiser with a SNELL 1975 tag. (JSR4081) ? Johnny’s horrible wreck in 1980 at Phoenix was a true test for Simpson helmets. Johnny says the helmet saved his life and describes the helmet as “used up.” Attached is a photo of it. (JSR4093) ? As mentioned along the way some drives used the Premier helmet. Bobby Unser wore a Premier helmet during his 1975 Indy 500 win. Here is a photo of it. (BU404) ? Also around the mid-70s Harley Davidson ventured into race helmets as seen here in this Bobby & Al Unser poster. (BUFT1672). ? Bart ?
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From: [email protected] < [email protected]> On Behalf Of Randall Cook via groups.io Sent: Saturday, October 19, 2024 10:25 AM To: [email protected]Subject: Re: [RH] Rutherford Helmet and Story (Helmets in Culver City Race Film) ? ??? That Rutherford helmet is a real piece of history.? And as you state it's a real beauty!? Thanks for sharing the photos. ??? Speaking of helmets it's amazing how many drivers in the past switched helmet back and forth between companies over their careers.? A.J. Foyt started out using Cromwell style helmets and at various times used McHal, Bell, Simpson, or Premier brands as well; likely even some others.? Which leads to a Foyt story and why he used a certain helmet. ???? For many years Bell Helmets had an accessory office at the Indianapolis Motor Speedway under the Tower Terrace stands where you could purchase helmets or have your helmet fitted or serviced during the entire Month of May. Around the middle 1970s a midget driver friend of mine told me that he was in there having his helmet worked on when A.J. Foyt walked in for some reason. The Bell representative asks Foyt why he quit using Bell helmets. Foyt replies, "Your helmets don't sound right". The rep was confused and didn't know what he meant so A.J. went out and came back a few minutes later with his Premier helmet. A.J. had the Bell rep put on the Premier helmet and proceeded to thump him with his hand as hard as he could on the side of the helmet just about knocking the guy over. "Pretty quiet wasn't it?", he said. He then repeated the same thing with the rep wearing a Bell helmet saying saying, "See what I mean? In the cockpit your helmets are too noisy!". The Bell rep had to agree. I'm not sure what happened to Premier helmets in auto racing but within a few years their drivers mostly seemed to either go back to Bell or start using the newer Simpson helmets.
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-- Bart Stevens
Irving TX USA?
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Re: Helmets in Culver City Race Film/Aviation impact/Seat belts
Double check your history of aviation safety equipment, and you'll see it evolved rapidly from the early days. WWI aircraft saw the adoption of restraints, and they varied widely ... some relying on the "Sam Browne Belt" designed to support swords and pistols being clipped into some part of the structure. During the first War, virtually all learned to keep the restraints tied to the structure, not just the seats. CAA and military standards by the '20s mandated attaching safety restraints to structure.?
There were some sloppy standards from racing bodies, through the sixties, but any aviation belt attachement issues had been addressed by the '30s.
Yes, there were some exceptions for movable aircraft passenger seats that had to meet testing, but solid mounting was mandatory for crew seats. Of course, this changed with the introduction of ejection seats ... only an issue if you're racing an Aston Martin.
-----Original Message----- From: < [email protected]> Sent: Oct 20, 2024 9:31 AM To: [email protected] < [email protected]> Subject: Re: [RH] Helmets in Culver City Race Film/Aviation impact
?
Chuck (and all):
?
??? You are absolutely correct about other helmets being used that were similar to the Cromwell design.? I believe there was also an Anderson helmet nearly identical to the ones that you mentioned.
?
??? As stated aviation had a big influence on the early full coverage helmets.? In fact there were even surplus "jet pilot" helmets used in racing.? Some of these helmets are identifiable by bulges in the area of the ears where communication speakers would have been installed when worn by pilots.
?
???? Aviation also influenced early seat belt usage in race cars.? Seat belts in aircraft weren't really a safety device.? They simply kept the pilot in his seat during various flight maneuvers; even when upside down.? In aircraft the belts were attached to the seat itself.? Many race car builders at the time copied what the military was doing and also mounted early seat belts to the seat instead of the race car frame.? More than one driver was seriously injured or killed while being thrown from a car still fully strapped into his seat after the seat mountings failed.
?
Randall Cook
Indianapolis, IN
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? -- Bob Storck KC MO USA
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Re: Helmets in Culver City Race Film/Aviation impact
Chuck (and all):
?
??? You are absolutely correct about other helmets being used that were similar to the Cromwell design.? I believe there was also an Anderson helmet nearly identical to the ones that you mentioned.
?
??? As stated aviation had a big influence on the early full coverage helmets.? In fact there were even surplus "jet pilot" helmets used in racing.? Some of these helmets are identifiable by bulges in the area of the ears where communication speakers would have been installed when worn by pilots.
?
???? Aviation also influenced early seat belt usage in race cars.? Seat belts in aircraft weren't really a safety device.? They simply kept the pilot in his seat during various flight maneuvers; even when upside down.? In aircraft the belts were attached to the seat itself.? Many race car builders at the time copied what the military was doing and also mounted early seat belts to the seat instead of the race car frame.? More than one driver was seriously injured or killed while being thrown from a car still fully strapped into his seat after the seat mountings failed.
?
Randall Cook
Indianapolis, IN
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Re: Helmets in Culver City Race Film/Aviation impact
As I have commented previously, many helmets identified as Cromwell were not Cromwell at all.? There were several U.S. manufacturers' that produced helmets that resembled Cromwells from a distance, but they were, in fact, superior to the Cromwell? John Lohrenz
in Long Beach, CA made an excellent helmet called "Shoc-Shell, and Clymer made a good helmet, and there was a third whose name escapes me now.? Snell put all of them out of business.? I? still have my Shoc-Shell that I purchased in the 1950s.
-- Chuck Fawcett
Westminster CA USA
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Re: Rutherford Helmet and Story (Helmets in Culver City Race Film)
Bart (and all):
?
??? That Rutherford helmet is a real piece of history.? And as you state it's a real beauty!? Thanks for sharing the photos.
?
??? Speaking of helmets it's amazing how many drivers in the past switched helmet back and forth between companies over their careers.? A.J. Foyt started out using Cromwell style helmets and at various times used McHal, Bell, Simpson, or Premier brands as well; likely even some others.? Which leads to a Foyt story and why he used a certain helmet.
?
???? For many years Bell Helmets had an accessory office at the Indianapolis Motor Speedway under the Tower Terrace stands where you could purchase helmets or have your helmet fitted or serviced during the entire Month of May. Around the middle 1970s a midget driver friend of mine told me that he was in there having his helmet worked on when A.J. Foyt walked in for some reason. The Bell representative asks Foyt why he quit using Bell helmets. Foyt replies, "Your helmets don't sound right". The rep was confused and didn't know what he meant so A.J. went out and came back a few minutes later with his Premier helmet. A.J. had the Bell rep put on the Premier helmet and proceeded to thump him with his hand as hard as he could on the side of the helmet just about knocking the guy over. "Pretty quiet wasn't it?", he said. He then repeated the same thing with the rep wearing a Bell helmet saying saying, "See what I mean? In the cockpit your helmets are too noisy!". The Bell rep had to agree. I'm not sure what happened to Premier helmets in auto racing but within a few years their drivers mostly seemed to either go back to Bell or start using the newer Simpson helmets.
?
Randall Cook
Indianapolis, IN
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Re: Helmets in Culver City Race Film
Here is Johnny Rutherford’s early 1960s McHal helmet. It is a real beauty. ? Bart Stevens Irving, TX ?
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From: [email protected] < [email protected]> On Behalf Of Randall Cook via groups.io Sent: Friday, October 18, 2024 10:42 AM To: [email protected]Subject: [RH] Helmets in Culver City Race Film ? ????? The first "hard shell" fiberglass full coverage helmet became available in 1952.? Hal Minyard and partner Johnny McMurray designed and started selling their McHal helmet that year.? This was the first racing helmet that covered both the sides and the back of a driver's head with a solid material instead of the pressed cardboard/cork helmets like the Cromwell that "protected" just the top of the head.? Roy Richter didn't come out with his Bell 500 helmet until 1954 by which time most drivers were using the McHal.? McHal helmets were used well into the 1960s at Indianapolis and other tracks along with other brands like Bell.? For quite a few years some drivers preferred the McHal on dirt tracks because of the quality of flip down visors that Hal Minyard had developed. ???? BTW, it might surprise some to know that open face helmets like the Bell 500 series are still technically legal to use in most professional racing today so long as they meet certain Snell rating requirements.? Even things like the various HANS type restraint devices are generally just "recommended" in rule books instead of being mandated.? Of course, everyone uses one at the professional level anyway.? There is likely some legal reason for the use of the wording in this manner.
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-- Bart Stevens
Irving TX USA?
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Bill W., ? I have a Smith Jiggler and a little bit of information. Reach out to me directly at bart@.... ? The engine in the photo you provided was built by Bill Jones of San Antonio, the city where the Smith’s were from. He knew Tiny Smith and the family. ? Bart Stevens Irving, TX ?
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From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of Bill Watson via groups.io
Sent: Friday, October 18, 2024 8:36 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: [RH] Smith-Jiggler OHV ? Does anyone have any technical info on the Smith-Jiggler conversion ? Maybe old prints, or know who might have something ? There was a person in W. Virginia, a couple years ago, that had several head sets, but I don’t have any contact info. Thank you for any help Bill Watson
Havertown PA? USA -- Bart Stevens
Irving TX USA?
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Re: Helmets in Culver City Race Film/Aviation impact
Dad gave me the GenTex helmet in my youth. I suppose it came from someone he knew racing way back when. Wish I knew who it was
 ?
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On Oct 18, 2024, at 3:35 PM, Bob Storck <bstorck@...> wrote:
? I've seen images of both cars and motorcycle drivers at Brooklands pre-WWI wearing the equestrian derived shellacked canvas helmets, and believe they were required for cycles at the time. WWI French aviators are pictured in forms of hard helmets.
In the '30s, there are photos of T.E.Lawrence wearing a hard helmet, which he advocated, but unfortunately not wearing in his fatal accident in 1935. Some hard helmets of the '30s had hard, hinged ear flaps. In 1941, Dr. Cairns convinced the Royal Army to require hard helmets for their dispatch riders, and they appeared in big numbers post war on surplus markets, used by racers.
Even before WWII test pilots started wearing full (football inspired?) helmets and during wartime testing for all aircraft, it became de rigueur for English and American test pilots to wear full coverage hard helmets, with the term 'jet pilot helmet' becoming common vernacular.
?
By March, '48 the P-1A became required for all Air Force pilots, using web support, and these became common in sports car racing then.
Cheers, Bob Storck in KCMO
?
-----Original Message-----
From: <[email protected]>
Subject: [RH] Helmets in Culver City Race Film
?
Smitty (and All):
?
????? The first "hard shell" fiberglass full coverage helmet became available in 1952.? Hal Minyard and partner Johnny McMurray designed and started selling their McHal helmet that year.? This was the first racing helmet that covered both the sides and the back of a driver's head with a solid material instead of the pressed cardboard/cork helmets like the Cromwell that "protected" just the top of the head.? Roy Richter didn't come out with his Bell 500 helmet until 1954 by which time most drivers were using the McHal.? McHal helmets were used well into the 1960s at Indianapolis and other tracks along with other brands like Bell.? For quite a few years some drivers preferred the McHal on dirt tracks because of the quality of flip down visors that Hal Minyard had developed.
?
???? BTW, it might surprise some to know that open face helmets like the Bell 500 series are still technically legal to use in most professional racing today so long as they meet certain Snell rating requirements.? Even things like the various HANS type restraint devices are generally just "recommended" in rule books instead of being mandated.? Of course, everyone uses one at the professional level anyway.? There is likely some legal reason for the use of the wording in this manner.
?
Randall Cook
Indianapolis, IN
-- Bob Storck KC MO USA
-- Phil Charlwood?
Vienna VA USA
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Re: Helmets in Culver City Race Film/Aviation impact
My one big regret in researching the Southern California jalopy era is not being able to procure a legit Cromwell helmet from a jalopy driver. What stopped me cold was advise from the drivers of "Don't try" because of the incredibly high chance of being stuck with a jockey helmet that never saw a day of racing on a quarter mile. I couldn't tell the difference, if any. I would like to say I have a real helmet from so and so, but, that never came to happen. I do however, have a 1950's piston that has a very high chance of coming from a So-Cal jalopy. I'm a lucky guy!!
--
Thomas Luce
Manhattan Beach CA USA
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Re: Helmets in Culver City Race Film/Aviation impact
I've seen images of both cars and motorcycle drivers at Brooklands pre-WWI wearing the equestrian derived shellacked canvas helmets, and believe they were required for cycles at the time. WWI French aviators are pictured in forms of hard helmets.
In the '30s, there are photos of T.E.Lawrence wearing a hard helmet, which he advocated, but unfortunately not wearing in his fatal accident in 1935. Some hard helmets of the '30s had hard, hinged ear flaps. In 1941, Dr. Cairns convinced the Royal Army to require hard helmets for their dispatch riders, and they appeared in big numbers post war on surplus markets, used by racers.
Even before WWII test pilots started wearing full (football inspired?) helmets and during wartime testing for all aircraft, it became de rigueur for English and American test pilots to wear full coverage hard helmets, with the term 'jet pilot helmet' becoming common vernacular.
?
By March, '48 the P-1A became required for all Air Force pilots, using web support, and these became common in sports car racing then.
Cheers, Bob Storck in KCMO
?
-----Original Message----- From: < [email protected]> Subject: [RH] Helmets in Culver City Race Film
?
Smitty (and All):
?
????? The first "hard shell" fiberglass full coverage helmet became available in 1952.? Hal Minyard and partner Johnny McMurray designed and started selling their McHal helmet that year.? This was the first racing helmet that covered both the sides and the back of a driver's head with a solid material instead of the pressed cardboard/cork helmets like the Cromwell that "protected" just the top of the head.? Roy Richter didn't come out with his Bell 500 helmet until 1954 by which time most drivers were using the McHal.? McHal helmets were used well into the 1960s at Indianapolis and other tracks along with other brands like Bell.? For quite a few years some drivers preferred the McHal on dirt tracks because of the quality of flip down visors that Hal Minyard had developed.
?
???? BTW, it might surprise some to know that open face helmets like the Bell 500 series are still technically legal to use in most professional racing today so long as they meet certain Snell rating requirements.? Even things like the various HANS type restraint devices are generally just "recommended" in rule books instead of being mandated.? Of course, everyone uses one at the professional level anyway.? There is likely some legal reason for the use of the wording in this manner.
?
Randall Cook
Indianapolis, IN
-- Bob Storck KC MO USA
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Bill,?
This is 10+ years old information, but a guy in Minot, SD who purchased a Dreyer?midget with a Smith Jiggler called me (someone told him I had once owned the car, which was wrong; I once knew one of its drivers, Lee Flowers).? He had some issues with the engine and wanted to know who might help.? I do not know whether he found the help he was looking for, but I have what was his contact information at the time.? You can email me off list at william.blaylock500@... and I will pass it on if you are interested.? ?
Bill Blaylock
On Fri, Oct 18, 2024 at 9:36?AM Bill Watson via <cracken32racer= [email protected]> wrote: Does anyone have any technical info on the Smith-Jiggler conversion ? Maybe old prints,
or know who might have something ?
There was a person in W. Virginia, a couple years ago, that had several head sets, but I don’t have any contact info. Thank you for any help
--
Bill Watson
Havertown PA? USA
-- Bill Blaylock
Sanbornville NH USA
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Helmets in Culver City Race Film
Smitty (and All):
?
????? The first "hard shell" fiberglass full coverage helmet became available in 1952.? Hal Minyard and partner Johnny McMurray designed and started selling their McHal helmet that year.? This was the first racing helmet that covered both the sides and the back of a driver's head with a solid material instead of the pressed cardboard/cork helmets like the Cromwell that "protected" just the top of the head.? Roy Richter didn't come out with his Bell 500 helmet until 1954 by which time most drivers were using the McHal.? McHal helmets were used well into the 1960s at Indianapolis and other tracks along with other brands like Bell.? For quite a few years some drivers preferred the McHal on dirt tracks because of the quality of flip down visors that Hal Minyard had developed.
?
???? BTW, it might surprise some to know that open face helmets like the Bell 500 series are still technically legal to use in most professional racing today so long as they meet certain Snell rating requirements.? Even things like the various HANS type restraint devices are generally just "recommended" in rule books instead of being mandated.? Of course, everyone uses one at the professional level anyway.? There is likely some legal reason for the use of the wording in this manner.
?
Randall Cook
Indianapolis, IN
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Maybe the American Museum of Speed
could help. They have one.
Lee Stohr
Port Angeles, WA
On 10/18/2024 6:36 AM, Bill Watson via
groups.io wrote:
Does anyone have any technical info on the Smith-Jiggler
conversion ? Maybe old prints,
or know who might have something ?
There was a person in W. Virginia, a couple years ago, that
had several head sets, but I don’t have any contact info. Thank
you for any help
--
Bill
Watson
Havertown PA? USA
_._,_._,
-- Lee Stohr Port Angeles WA USA
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Re: CJA > Culver City Race Film
In response to Jim Taggart, the Culver City Speedway track was originally finished in macadam (like asphalt) in 1947. The midgets found the surface too slippery and when they raced at night it became slippery from dampness and oil being laid down during a race. In 1949 they changed the surface to clay and decomposed granite. I know Gardena Stadium was a clay surface. I remember as a child, walking on the Gardena track and trying to make an indentation with the nail on my finger. Hard to do.
Bob Mitchell Simi Valley CA USA
On Thursday, October 17, 2024 at 06:39:31 AM PDT, David Schmidt via groups.io <dschmdt@...> wrote:
Jim I have been wondering when the "hardshell" helmets came into play and furthermore just when the full coverage helmets (not just a cap with earflaps) became mandated by USAC and other sanctioning bodies. Anyone out there have a timeline for these innovations? TIA Smitty Houston
I really enjoyed the Jalopy Races from Hollywood! But, like Bob, I wondered about the date. 1952 just seem a little early.
?
I noticed that one of the drivers had a full coverage hardshell helmet. When did those make an appearance?
?
Even though Culver was a quarter-mile dirt track there wasn’t much dust, the cars weren’t sliding around that much and they were able to hold their lines pretty well. I wonder
if the track had been treated — oiled dirt maybe? Looked to me like a few of those cars had slicks on the right side.
?
I liked the starter, too. He had a fun little routine when the drivers were introduced and a nice little leap when started the races. Made a nice show.
?
I truly wish I could have seen the races live . . . and that you still could.
?
Brookings, SD
?
Date:
Sunday, October 13, 2024 at 11:45 AM
Subject: Re: [RH] CJA - California Jalopy Association help wanted (Tom Luce?)
Actually, the race at Culver City Speedway took place on Sunday, July 18, 1954, not in 1952. The results: Don? Noel, Fred Russell, Termite Snyder in the main event in the film
is the same results from the L.A. Times dated July 19, 1954. (Results from Sunday in Monday morning paper. Great film. Extremely clear.
-- Jim Taggart
Brookings SD USA
--
David Schmidt
Highlands TX USA
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I did not mention it was for a Ford flathead.  --
Bill Watson
Havertown PA? USA
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Bob Storck
