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Sorry folks. Didn't know where else to post this but its good news.
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"Big News!?FamilyTreeDNA?is delivering holiday gifts early!
Y DNA?haplogroups are beginning to be delivered as a free benefit to men who took the?Family Finder?test at?FamilyTreeDNA. This is the first wave of a staggered rollout. Haplogroup results will be delivered to several thousand people at a time, in batches, beginning today.
This is no trivial gift and includes LOTS of information that can be used in various ways for your genealogy. Please feel free to share this article. The new?Family Finder?haplogroups are another reason to take a?Family Finder?test and to encourage other family members to do so as well."
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Hi,
This is indeed excellent news. We should in theory see the number of testers positive for certain R-U106 subclades increase quite significantly. I guess the available SNPs depend on the chip version (V1 to V3) used for autosomal testing. I don't know if it will be possible for us to know the list of SNPs supported by these different chip versions.
Cheers,
Ewenn
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Here is the relevant text from the e-mail sent to FTDNA Group Administrators: ? Y-DNA Haplogroups for Family Finder Customers ? We are excited to begin releasing the long-awaited feature to provide haplogroups for autosomal test takers. We are starting this week with small batches of about 2,000 kits per day to monitor the progress and make sure everything is working as intended, and we will see how long it takes for them to process. ? Once we have an idea of the timeframe and have verified that everything looks good, then we will start processing existing kits in larger batches and turn on the pipeline for new purchases to get Y-DNA haplogroups when their results are posted. - Customers on the current chip, which was introduced in March 2019, will receive results first.
- Customers who purchased and received results between August 1 (when we announced the update) and November 30 will be in the first batches.
- Once we have completed the current chip, we will start processing the older chips. Once those are complete, unlocked transfers will be processed.
? Important Notes: ? Customers who transferred from Ancestry or 23andMe and have unlocked their transfer will be able to view their Y-DNA haplogroup, but it will not be used in the Y-DNA haplotree or Discover? statistics, nor will their matches or group projects be able to view it. ? Customers who tested with MyHeritage and Vitagene and have unlocked their transfers will be visible to matches. ? Customers who took a Family Finder test directly with FamilyTreeDNA will be able to see: - Y-DNA haplogroup badge (confirmed haplogroup)
- Y-STR Results section with Y-DNA haplotree & Y-SNPs and Discover reports
- Y-SNP download file under Family Finder Results–Download Raw Data
? Like a customer who has done a Y-STR or Big Y test: - Their Y-DNA haplogroup will be counted in the Haplotree and Discover statistics
- Their matches will be able to view their Y-DNA haplogroup,
- The Y-DNA haplogroup will be visible in Group Projects (if they have a test that shows up in project reports).
? Y-STR Tests and Autosomal Tests in Group Projects - For project members who have Y-STR tests and an Ancestry or 23andMe transfer, their STR-predicted Y-DNA haplogroup will show in the project.
- For project members have a Y-STR test and a MyHeritage or Vitagene transfer, their Family Finder Y-DNA haplogroup will show in the project.
- For project members who do not have a Y-STR test but are in Group Projects, their Y-DNA haplogroup will show under the SNP Report if it is from a Family Finder test or an unlocked MyHeritage/Vitagene transfer.
- For project members with Ancestry and 23andMe unlocked transfers, their Y-DNA haplogroup from Family Finder will not have display on the Y-SNP report.
? ? Debbie Kennett
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Thanks Debbie.? I think it's worth remarking here that the FTDNA lab processes the MyHeritage autosomal tests. We asked at the conference, and they confirmed this, but explained MyHeritage then has their own proprietary analysis. As you read that the autosomal transfers from MyHeritage will be included in some reports and other companies' transfers will not, this could be at least part of that explanation.?
If you didn't hear, FTDNA also announced at the conference that they plan to dump the current family tree utility and incorporate the MyHeritage family tree as the integral tree utility. This is interesting news--mostly good. And, if a member happens to already be a MyHeritage user, seems like all this is good news for them.?
- Tom Little
Little Project Admin?
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Thanks Tom. We’ll have to wait and see how these haplogroup reports turn out. In theory, FTDNA could add lots of custom Y-SNPs to the microarray they use for the Family Finder test to give a more detailed haplogroup assignment but I’m not sure if they’ve done this. ? I was a virtual attendee at the FTDNA Group Administrators’ Conference and heard the news about the MyHeritage trees. I believe we did discuss this on the list at the time. The issue with the MyHeritage trees is that you are restricted to 250 people with a free account but any tree is better than nothing. I’m still not sure how FTDNA are going to handle the process of linking autosomal DNA matches to trees when the trees are hosted on a different website altogether. ? Debbie ?
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From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of T J Little via groups.io
Sent: Friday, December 1, 2023 12:45 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [R1b-U106] FamilyTreeDNA provides Y-DNA haplogroups from Family Finder autosomal tests? Thanks Debbie.? I think it's worth remarking here that the FTDNA lab processes the MyHeritage autosomal tests. We asked at the conference, and they confirmed this, but explained MyHeritage then has their own proprietary analysis. As you read that the autosomal transfers from MyHeritage will be included in some reports and other companies' transfers will not, this could be at least part of that explanation.?
If you didn't hear, FTDNA also announced at the conference that they plan to dump the current family tree utility and incorporate the MyHeritage family tree as the integral tree utility. This is interesting news--mostly good. And, if a member happens to already be a MyHeritage user, seems like all this is good news for them.?
- Tom Little
Little Project Admin?
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If someone has previously uploaded their aDNA file from Ancestry and paid to have it unlocked, is there any benefit in having FTDNA do the FamilyFinder test as well? I already have the Big Y-700 and the full mtDNA. ?
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From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of C.B. via groups.io
Sent: Friday, December 1, 2023 1:56 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: [R1b-U106] FamilyTreeDNA provides Y-DNA haplogroups from Family Finder autosomal tests ? Sorry folks. Didn't know where else to post this but its good news. "Big News!??is delivering holiday gifts early! ?haplogroups are beginning to be delivered as a free benefit to men who took the??test at?. This is the first wave of a staggered rollout. Haplogroup results will be delivered to several thousand people at a time, in batches, beginning today. This is no trivial gift and includes LOTS of information that can be used in various ways for your genealogy. Please feel free to share this article. The new??haplogroups are another reason to take a??test and to encourage other family members to do so as well."
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I don’t think you will see any improvements in your ?overall results.
But it might be a good idea to have a test from FTDNA (or MH or 23andMe) in order to have Raw Data from a GSA test. ?
I believe some upload sites are geared towards GSA. ? And you might want to build a Combined Kit at GEDmatch. ??
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Ian,
I paid FTDNA for a family finder; they uploaded my aunts file from Ancestry and failed to provide me with the results of my family finder.? I can’t download paternal or mtdna .. only all. Although I know from family history who my family members are..the FTDNA didn’t run my ?DNA but Ancestry did under my aunt. Money wasted…?
If someone has previously uploaded their aDNA file from Ancestry and paid to have it unlocked, is there any benefit in having FTDNA do the FamilyFinder test as well? I already have the Big Y-700 and the full mtDNA. ? From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of C.B. via
Sent: Friday, December 1, 2023 1:56 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: [R1b-U106] FamilyTreeDNA provides Y-DNA haplogroups from Family Finder autosomal tests ? Sorry folks. Didn't know where else to post this but its good news. "Big News!??is delivering holiday gifts early! ?haplogroups are beginning to be delivered as a free benefit to men who took the??test at?. This is the first wave of a staggered rollout. Haplogroup results will be delivered to several thousand people at a time, in batches, beginning today. This is no trivial gift and includes LOTS of information that can be used in various ways for your genealogy. Please feel free to share this article. The new??haplogroups are another reason to take a??test and to encourage other family members to do so as well."
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Ian Dundas asked: “If someone has previously uploaded their aDNA file from Ancestry and paid to have it unlocked, is there any benefit in having FTDNA do the FamilyFinder test as well? I already have the Big Y-700 and the full mtDNA.” ? I’ve not seen any direct comparisons of autosomal matches with a Family Finder test and an Ancestry upload. However, the companies have used different microarrays at different times. This means that there is sometimes very low SNP overlap. See the ISOGG autosomal SNP comparison chart comparing the overlap with the different chips. ?
? This low SNP overlap can affect the matching process. I have two different tests at MyHeritage and I get markedly different numbers of matches: ? - With my Ancestry transfer (tested on the Illumina OmniExpress) I have 10,379 matches
- With my direct test at MyHeritage on the Global Screening Array I have 8,946 matches
? In practical terms the difference in matches is not an issue as it’s the low matches are affected. MyHeritage has a major problem with false matches and inflated cM totals so I don’t trust matches there much under 30 cM anyway and have even had problems with matches up to 50 cM. ? I suspect that from an autosomal point of view there is probably little if anything to be gained by doing a new test at FamilyTreeDNA. The FTDNA autosomal DNA database is very small and you’re going to get the vast majority of your best matches at AncestryDNA. ? If you’ve done the BigY test and the mtDNA full sequence test, you are not going to receive any new information from the small number of Y-SNPs and mtDNA SNPs on the Family Finder chip. Microarrays are only testing known SNPs so there is no scope for discovery. ? For someone who hasn’t done any Y-DNA testing then I think there are considerable benefits for males taking a Family Finder test direct with FTDNA rather than transferring from AncestryDNA as FTDNA treat the results very differently. Here is the information provided by FTDNA to group administrators about the differences: ? “Customers who transferred from Ancestry or 23andMe and have unlocked their transfer will be able to view their Y-DNA haplogroup, but it will not be used in the Y-DNA haplotree or Discover? statistics, nor will their matches or group projects be able to view it. ? Customers who tested with MyHeritage and Vitagene and have unlocked their transfers will be visible to matches. ? Customers who took a Family Finder test directly with FamilyTreeDNA will be able to see: - Y-DNA haplogroup badge (confirmed haplogroup)
- Y-STR Results section with Y-DNA haplotree & Y-SNPs and Discover reports
- Y-SNP download file under Family Finder Results–Download Raw Data
? Like a customer who has done a Y-STR or Big Y test: - Their Y-DNA haplogroup will be counted in the Haplotree and Discover statistics
- Their matches will be able to view their Y-DNA haplogroup,
- The Y-DNA haplogroup will be visible in Group Projects (if they have a test that shows up in project reports).
? Y-STR Tests and Autosomal Tests in Group Projects - For project members who have Y-STR tests and an Ancestry or 23andMe transfer, their STR-predicted Y-DNA haplogroup will show in the project.
- For project members have a Y-STR test and a MyHeritage or Vitagene transfer, their Family Finder Y-DNA haplogroup will show in the project.
- For project members who do not have a Y-STR test but are in Group Projects, their Y-DNA haplogroup will show under the SNP Report if it is from a Family Finder test or an unlocked MyHeritage/Vitagene transfer.
- For project members with Ancestry and 23andMe unlocked transfers, their Y-DNA haplogroup from Family Finder will not have display on the Y-SNP report.”
? Best wishes ? Debbie Kennett
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If your Family Finder test has not been processed by FTDNA you need to get in touch with customer service and find out what has happened. Have you perhaps ended up with two different accounts and your Family Finder results were posted to a second account? If so, FTDNA will be able to merge the two accounts for you. ? Debbie Kennett ?
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From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of Lincoln Lincoln
Sent: Sunday, December 10, 2023 1:47 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [R1b-U106] FamilyTreeDNA provides Y-DNA haplogroups from Family Finder autosomal tests? I paid FTDNA for a family finder; they uploaded my aunts file from Ancestry and failed to provide me with the results of my family finder.? I can’t download paternal or mtdna .. only all. Although I know from family history who my family members are..the FTDNA didn’t run my ?DNA but Ancestry did under my aunt. Money wasted…?
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To clarify Debbie's point, this refers to the post regarding a *completely* unprocessed test. Not all male tests have received Y-DNA haplogroups yet - that process is still ongoing.
- Iain.
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I just hope they update the ydna test as well as they used to provide better groups than m269.
Jason
To clarify Debbie's point, this refers to the post regarding a *completely* unprocessed test. Not all male tests have received Y-DNA haplogroups yet - that process is still ongoing.
- Iain.
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Hi Jason,
What you're referring to is nothing to do with the test itself. There was a short period where Family Tree DNA predicted groups for Y-STR tests with better resolution than just R-M269. However, they very quickly stopped doing this. The reason behind this is that FTDNA treats this prediction as a guarantee: i.e., if you take an SNP test and prove you are not R-M269, then they will find out which haplogroup you do belong to for free. This is necessary because R-M269 is often the starting point for people to take SNP packs.
It is sometimes possible to predict more refined haplogroups than R-M269, but it's not 100% successful. For example, if you are already M269+ and have DYS492=13, then you have a 97% chance of being part of R-U106. Some haplogroups have markers like this, some don't, and the probability of being correct varies.
These days, this prediction and the guarantee it holds are fairly useless anyway. We don't hear much about single SNP tests or SNP packs these days, given the reduced cost and comaprative benefit of BigY and other sequencing tests, so the guarantee doesn't mean that much. FTDNA could, in most cases, accurately predict most people down to at least the level of the most recent SNP packs. However, a much better idea of a person's haplogroup can often be found simply by looking at the haplogroups listed in their STR matches - this isn't fool-proof, especially at the lower levels, but it is often instructive.
Cheers,
Iain.
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Hello Debbie,
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Could you please elaborate more on the below?
I do not have any close matches on MH, except my direct family which I asked to test, but plenty of remote ones and I was wondering how I can have some unknown relatives in Scandinavia having a single common with me block of ~40cM. On the other hand I could verify via the traditional genealogy the link with other people having even a smaller common DNA. So I have strated wondering maybe they are false positives, what I understood was not likely with commom DNA patch of >6cM, hence the action FTDNA took a while ago to increase the matching threshold.
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"In practical terms the difference in matches is not an issue as it’s the low matches are affected. MyHeritage has a major problem with false matches and inflated cM totals so I don’t trust matches there much under 30 cM anyway and have even had problems with matches up to 50 cM."
?
Thank you,
Centropol
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Hello Centropol ? MyHeritage use a complicated process using imputation and stitching to compensate for the low overlap of markers on the different chips. The process is described in this blog post: ?
? I suspect that some of these long blocks of 40 cM are not really a single segment but lots of small segments that have been incorrectly stitched together. ? Another problem is that a lot of the seemingly high matches are in fact made up of lots of small false segments. I have an example I used recently in a presentation of a match I had at MyHeritage which shared 49.5 cM with me with one test and 35.7 on my other test. This person did not match my dad but only matched my mum on 8.9 cM. When I looked in the chromosome browser I could see that this seemingly large match was made up of lots of tiny segments, only one of which appears to be valid. See the attached screenshot of my slide. ? If you can find a genealogical connection with any of your matches at MyHeritage then all well and good but I just don’t think we can use those small matches as evidence because of the uncertainty. ? One good feature at MyHeritage is the filter which allows you to sort your matches by country of residence. I tend to focus on matches living in the UK which is where I live and where my ancestry is from and I don’t generally look at the lower matches below about 30 cM unless something of interest really jumps out at me. Like you I get hundreds of matches at MyHeritage living all over the world in countries where I have no recent genealogical connections (France, Germany, the Netherlands, Sweden, Norway, Denmark, etc). These are either false matches or very distant matches reflecting the fact that all Europeans share common ancestry within the last thousand years. ? Debbie ? ?
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From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of Centropol
Sent: Thursday, December 14, 2023 12:16 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [R1b-U106] FamilyTreeDNA provides Y-DNA haplogroups from Family Finder autosomal tests? Could you please elaborate more on the below? I do not have any close matches on MH, except my direct family which I asked to test, but plenty of remote ones and I was wondering how I can have some unknown relatives in Scandinavia having a single common with me block of ~40cM. On the other hand I could verify via the traditional genealogy the link with other people having even a smaller common DNA. So I have strated wondering maybe they are false positives, what I understood was not likely with commom DNA patch of >6cM, hence the action FTDNA took a while ago to increase the matching threshold. "In practical terms the difference in matches is not an issue as it’s the low matches are affected. MyHeritage has a major problem with false matches and inflated cM totals so I don’t trust matches there much under 30 cM anyway and have even had problems with matches up to 50 cM."
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Thank you very much Debbie. That really clarifies a lot and explains why I have 2x more matches in MH compared to FTDNA, although MH is a bit more popular in Poland, I think, also because of the multiple languages it can be used in.
I was really surprised to see that 16-20 percent of child-only matches are considered a good result.
"The last step of DNA Matching is filtering out false positives and estimating the specific relationship between two individuals with shared DNA segments. Because many of us are descendants of the same very ancient ancestors, we often have tiny shared DNA segments with individuals we wouldn’t really consider family. We sought a method to filter out such matches that only frustrate genealogists. To this end, we measure false positives internally by looking at?trios?— these are sets of child, mother, and father who were all tested with MyHeritage DNA kits, and received results that validated that the relationships between the parents and child is correct. Any match that a child has with another individual, who does not match neither the father nor the mother is suspected to be a false positive and is called a?child-only match. We measure the percentage of child-only matches among all matches that are returned for children in all known trios on MyHeritage, and this figure is called the percentage of suspected false positives indicated by child-only matches. We managed to bring this figure down to 16–20 percent, which is a good result that as far as we know is equivalent to or better than all other DNA services.?Our improved classifier algorithms have succeeded in bringing our false positive rate to an all-time low."
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MyHeritage have a database of 7.7 million whereas FTDNA’s Family Finder database is only about 1.5 million so you would expect many more matches at MyHeritage though I’m sure you’re right that MyHeritage have many more customers from Poland. ? When MyHeritage wrote that blog post about their matching algorithms the companies were all using the Illumina OmniExpress. The move to the Illumina Global Screening Array made everything much more complicated and has resulted in many more false matches. There are only about 150,000 SNPs out of about 700,000 in common across the two different chips. See the ISOGG SNP Comparison Chart: ?
? I suspect that if MyHeritage were to repeat that trio analysis today the ratio of child-only matches would be much higher. ? I have two kits at MyHeritage. One is an AncestryDNA transfer done on the OmniExpress and the other is a new test on the Global Screening Array. Here is a comparison I did at the beginning of November this year. ? Illumina OmniExpress transfer ? 10,288 matches for Debbie ? 3,274 DNA matches shared with Debbie’s dad ? 2,954 DNA Matches shared with Debbie’s mum ? 4,060 matches not shared with either parent (39%) ? New test on Global Screening Array ? 8,856 matches for Debbie ? 2,303 DNA matches shared with Debbie’s dad ? 2,004 DNA Matches shared with Debbie’s mum ? 4,549 matches not shared with either parent (51%) ? 1,432 matches not replicated on GSA (14%) ? Best wishes ? Debbie ? ?
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From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of Centropol
Sent: Thursday, December 14, 2023 3:55 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [R1b-U106] FamilyTreeDNA provides Y-DNA haplogroups from Family Finder autosomal tests? Thank you very much Debbie. That really clarifies a lot and explains why I have 2x more matches in MH compared to FTDNA, although MH is a bit more popular in Poland, I think, also because of the multiple languages it can be used in.
I was really surprised to see that 16-20 percent of child-only matches are considered a good result.
"The last step of DNA Matching is filtering out false positives and estimating the specific relationship between two individuals with shared DNA segments. Because many of us are descendants of the same very ancient ancestors, we often have tiny shared DNA segments with individuals we wouldn’t really consider family. We sought a method to filter out such matches that only frustrate genealogists. To this end, we measure false positives internally by looking at?trios?— these are sets of child, mother, and father who were all tested with MyHeritage DNA kits, and received results that validated that the relationships between the parents and child is correct. Any match that a child has with another individual, who does not match neither the father nor the mother is suspected to be a false positive and is called a?child-only match. We measure the percentage of child-only matches among all matches that are returned for children in all known trios on MyHeritage, and this figure is called the percentage of suspected false positives indicated by child-only matches. We managed to bring this figure down to 16–20 percent, which is a good result that as far as we know is equivalent to or better than all other DNA services.?Our improved classifier algorithms have succeeded in bringing our false positive rate to an all-time low."
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That is very interesting. If the rate of false positives "child-only matches" is so high then I also wonder how it affects the ethnic origin estimated in MH, although for my mother the estimate matches reasonably well the family history, although it still shows anomalies like a quite significant Anglo-Saxon ancestry. I did not manage to test my father so I estimate his ancestry by comparing my mother's and mine, basically doing a primitive phasing.
The comparison of different chips gives a very concerning information, frankly. I tested myself and my mother at FTDNA and later transferred to MH.
Thank you again Debbie.
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In general one needn’t worry about FTDNA/MH transfers as FTDNA processed all of them and the SNP overlap is very high.
Some people like their MH ethnic origins %, but many people would place them at the very bottom. ? These estimates are several years old and very outdated.
~~~~~~~
For several years, FTDNA processed Nat Géo Geno kits. ? I know there were several iterations, with the last by Helix.
Are any of the FTDNA versions being considered for Y updating of Nat Geo transfers to Family Finder?
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I did the Genographic 2.0 test in 2016, and imported the results into FTDNA in the same year. Genographic reported my haplogroup as Z160, now dated 2170 BCE (95% confidence interval: 2816-1610 BCE). FTDNA immediately advanced this to CTS3777, now considered part of the S3251 block, dated 1055 BCE (1577-608 BCE). I can still see my Genographic SNP results along with my Big Y results. I would think that Genographic results have already been advanced as far as they can be.
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Ewenn
T J Little
