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Hi All,
Did anyone notice the message left today on the U106 group by a J Cook? Chris do you know about him, might he already be someone you’ve chatted with? If not, how can we invite him to join us?
I’m in the middle of a family crisis, I’ll surface asap.
Hope everyone is doing well.
Cynthia
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Okay, I reached out to him to see if he is interested. Thanks.
Chris
Hi All,
Did anyone notice the message left today on the U106 group by a J Cook?? Chris do you know about him, might he already be someone you’ve chatted with? If not, how can we invite him to join us?
I’m in the middle of a family crisis, I’ll surface asap.
Hope everyone is doing well.
Cynthia
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I am now here, but expect I will mostly lurk.
John
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Hey John,
Welcome! I was thrilled when I saw your post on the U106 Group page. What caught my attention is that it sounds as if you are not certain that you are S6881+. It sounded likely with what you shared. If I have understood that correctly then we are a good group to ask about how to move forward when ready.
Cynthia
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Hi Cynthia! Thanks for the welcome.
No, I'm pretty sure I am S6881 - I have both S6881+ and S6886+ in the myDNA.global test (what was ScotlandsDNA), and S6881 in the data file from LivingDNA. If you like I can explain a little more about what I am interested in in due course.
John
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Hi all! Still no real plans to go with a FTDNA Y test - but I have an Ancestry autosomal test. I did it because it seemed it might be useful in extending contacts to help get a few pointers to help me extend my tree, which it seems to be - I'm pushing it on all ancestry lines. Are there any advantages (or disadvantages) to uploading the test data to FTDNA?
John
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Hi John, ? No real disadvantage that I can think of. Your advantage is you are fishing in another pond by uploading your autosomal data to another company. You might find new matches but then again you might find the same ones that you already know. But it isn't expensive if you want to unlock the extra features ($19) and it's free if you don't want those features. So I don't think you have much to lose and lots to potentially gain. On the other hand, most people don't have a tree online at FTDNA (some do) and you don't get the hints and such that you get at Ancestry. But you do have a chromosome browser at FTDNA to see if people are sharing the same bits of chromosomes and you can email people directly so sometimes you'll get a better response from people than going through Ancestry. At least that's how I feel about it.
Chris
On Tue, Apr 21, 2020 at 11:51 AM John < john@...> wrote: Hi all! Still no real plans to go with a FTDNA Y test - but I have an Ancestry autosomal test. I did it because it seemed it might be useful in extending contacts to help get a few pointers to help me extend my tree, which it seems to be - I'm pushing it on all ancestry lines. Are there any advantages (or disadvantages) to uploading the test data to FTDNA?
John
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John, ? The advantage of a yDNA test, as opposed to the autosomal test, is that it is specific to your direct-male line. ? With the autosomal, you get lots and lots of matches, and you have to try to figure out which line you share.? Frequently, I will have a 3rd-cousin match, which is a common ancestor in the 4th generation.? I know my ancestors in all directions for 5 generations, most 6 or more.? And the “match” may or may not know anything back 4 generations, and when they do, there still may not be any common line that we can find.? I have corresponded with some very nice people, and had to conclude that we appear to be related in some way, but we have no way to tell which line it is. ? With the yDNA test, there is no question what line you are looking for.? And you can estimate what generation has the common ancestor (+/- one) so it is easier to identify how you are (probably) related. ? Both are useful.? One is more specific, if that is what you want.? Either way, the advantage is putting you in touch with others who may have done more research, and can fill in some of the blanks in your records; or with people whom you can help.? Remember, of course, that not everyone you contact will be a careful researcher. There is a lot of “Family Fiction” out there, Ancestry is full of it, posted by “ancestor collectors” (as opposed to “genealogists”) who are not interested in accuracy, as long as it expands their collection of “ancestors.”
But uploading your autosomal to FTDNA will increase the pool of people you can contact, about half of whom will actually respond to you. ? And FamilyTreeDNA has a yDNA sale through the 26th, starting at $99 (37 markers) ? Jim Liptrap ?
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From: [email protected] < [email protected]> On Behalf Of John Sent: Tuesday, April 21, 2020 1:51 PM To: [email protected]Subject: Re: [R1b-S6881] Potential new member? ? Hi all! Still no real plans to go with a FTDNA Y test - but I have an Ancestry autosomal test. I did it because it seemed it might be useful in extending contacts to help get a few pointers to help me extend my tree, which it seems to be - I'm pushing it on all ancestry lines. Are there any advantages (or disadvantages) to uploading the test data to FTDNA?
John
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Many thanks Chris and Jim - I'll go ahead with uploading to FTDNA. I saw the possibility of the extra features like the chromosome browser which looks interesting, so will go for that. It will also get me there with an account, so that if (more likely when!) I go for a FTDNA Y test I will already be on there.
One reason that I'm not in a rush is that I already have Y information from the old ScotlandsDNA / BritainsDNA people and more recently LivingDNA. My main interest in the DNA side is really in deep ancestry. The Y information is of course the best there is at present (along with mtDNA), but since it is only an increasingly smaller part of my ancestry the further back you go, it only provides a tiny hint of overall ancestry. One reason for trying Ancestry DNA was the thought of a possible strategy - to make contact with people interested in the DNA side, and hope to find people who have Y information for some of my other ancestors! One issue with the Y line is that I know (at least am 99% certain) that it's broken - my 3x great Cook grandfather is the furthest back Cook(e) male, his mother was born a Cooke, and even her mother was born a Cooke (about 1775). So actually it would be interesting to see what male line my Y DNA really belongs to!
At present I have my tree complete to all 32 of my 3x great grandparents (born around 1800), and am just over half way with progress on the next generation back. Obviously I have a few lines going much further back, but my main interest is in trying to get as much completion as possible. I was not especially interested in finding living relatives - though the idea of trying to find others who have appropriate Y DNA means this will probably change!
It is only recently that I have investigated Ancestry. I started helping my father with research methods back around 1980, though he did most of the work up to the time he died over 10 years ago. In those days of course we spent a lot of time sitting in record offices! My father pushed the research in directions he was interested in, and so I had some gaps to fill in. I have found Ancestry most useful for the value-for-money access to (in particular) census and church records from the comfort of home. There are a few trees (and more particularly, hints through the DNA side) that are helping to fill in details, but yes, there is an awful lot of stuff on there that can't be trusted! It has been good, I'm sure, in getting more people interested in family history, but few have the dedication (or research knowledge) to find all the evidence to produce satisfactory family connections. I suspect the DNA side is similar - people will take a test out of interest, but not have any real interest in the deep ancestry that can be obtained from Y and mtDNA information.
It would be great to have deep ancestry information for as many ancestors as possible. I find it fascinating that a huge amount of my ancestry back into the 1700s is firmly rooted in the area I grew up in (south Lancashire, mostly centred on the Wigan area), though I also have about an eighth Staffordshire, about an eighth north Welsh, and a sixteenth Yorkshire as well. I have nearly finished putting together records and maps on the origins of my 2x great grandparents, and the 3x great are next - it will take a while to put together the information for all 32.
Jim, when I saw your surname I immediately thought "Liptrot" which is a name more familiar to me from Lancashire - interesting to see more on your great web pages.
I will keep an eye on the FTDNA sales, and when I feel I have $99 burning a hole in my pocket at the appropriate moment I will take the plunge!
Many thanks, I will keep following this group (and U106) as the discussion can be interesting.
John Cooke
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Hi John, ? If your interest is in deep ancestry then you probably will be happy with the discussions on the U106 group lately. If you follow the link that Iain posted recently to msg #637 about Frequency and Populations of R-U106 it will give you lots of information to ponder. If you need anything to follow along with the SNPs he mentions you can get the S6881 Group Tree in the files portion of our group and you can see what SNPs lead back up from S6881 to U106. I haven't updated it recently but since you've done no testing below the S6881 area it shouldn't matter to you (beyond that he doesn't go down that far). If you are able to find out the haplogroups of other ancestors in your family you can join similar groups (or check out the R1b group if they have haplogroups that fall under R1b) for other information. You can also check out Anthrogenica.com and Eupedia.com which have a lot of deep ancestry information. Let me know if you have any questions.
Chris
On Wed, Apr 22, 2020 at 2:20 AM John < john@...> wrote: Many thanks Chris and Jim - I'll go ahead with uploading to FTDNA. I saw the possibility of the extra features like the chromosome browser which looks interesting, so will go for that. It will also get me there with an account, so that if (more likely when!) I go for a FTDNA Y test I will already be on there.
One reason that I'm not in a rush is that I already have Y information from the old ScotlandsDNA / BritainsDNA people and more recently LivingDNA. My main interest in the DNA side is really in deep ancestry. The Y information is of course the best there is at present (along with mtDNA), but since it is only an increasingly smaller part of my ancestry the further back you go, it only provides a tiny hint of overall ancestry. One reason for trying Ancestry DNA was the thought of a possible strategy - to make contact with people interested in the DNA side, and hope to find people who have Y information for some of my other ancestors! One issue with the Y line is that I know (at least am 99% certain) that it's broken - my 3x great Cook grandfather is the furthest back Cook(e) male, his mother was born a Cooke, and even her mother was born a Cooke (about 1775). So actually it would be interesting to see what male line my Y DNA really belongs to!
At present I have my tree complete to all 32 of my 3x great grandparents (born around 1800), and am just over half way with progress on the next generation back. Obviously I have a few lines going much further back, but my main interest is in trying to get as much completion as possible. I was not especially interested in finding living relatives - though the idea of trying to find others who have appropriate Y DNA means this will probably change!
It is only recently that I have investigated Ancestry. I started helping my father with research methods back around 1980, though he did most of the work up to the time he died over 10 years ago. In those days of course we spent a lot of time sitting in record offices! My father pushed the research in directions he was interested in, and so I had some gaps to fill in. I have found Ancestry most useful for the value-for-money access to (in particular) census and church records from the comfort of home. There are a few trees (and more particularly, hints through the DNA side) that are helping to fill in details, but yes, there is an awful lot of stuff on there that can't be trusted! It has been good, I'm sure, in getting more people interested in family history, but few have the dedication (or research knowledge) to find all the evidence to produce satisfactory family connections. I suspect the DNA side is similar - people will take a test out of interest, but not have any real interest in the deep ancestry that can be obtained from Y and mtDNA information.
It would be great to have deep ancestry information for as many ancestors as possible. I find it fascinating that a huge amount of my ancestry back into the 1700s is firmly rooted in the area I grew up in (south Lancashire, mostly centred on the Wigan area), though I also have about an eighth Staffordshire, about an eighth north Welsh, and a sixteenth Yorkshire as well. I have nearly finished putting together records and maps on the origins of my 2x great grandparents, and the 3x great are next - it will take a while to put together the information for all 32.
Jim, when I saw your surname I immediately thought "Liptrot" which is a name more familiar to me from Lancashire - interesting to see more on your great web pages.
I will keep an eye on the FTDNA sales, and when I feel I have $99 burning a hole in my pocket at the appropriate moment I will take the plunge!
Many thanks, I will keep following this group (and U106) as the discussion can be interesting.
John Cooke
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Thanks Chris - yes I have been following the discussion on U106. I had already seen that interesting article by Iain, and have read (and saved links to!) a lot of the stuff on his website. I have found Anthrogenica and am lurking in Eupedia :-)
I did upload my autosomal data to FTDNA and am finding it interesting to look at what is available there. One thing that jumped out was that one of my top three matches is R-Z343 which is not far above S6881. That was from a Y111 test. However most are simply M269, and I am guessing that I won't get much deeper information than I already have unless I take the BigY test.
It would be interesting to get below S6881. Is BigY the only way to do this? I am guessing that the Y111 test would not tell me anything I don't already know.
John
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The Y-111 test will not give you a prediction of a haplogroup beyond M269. You have to test SNPs to get a further designation. You would find out who you still match at 111 STRs and who is now closest but from my kit I can say just because they are your closest match on STRs doesn’t necessarily mean they will turn out to be the branch of the tree you end up on. STRs move back and forth too much and can cause it to look like a closer match than it is. Only SNP testing will really tell you which branch of the tree you are on. You can do SNP packs or test individual SNPs instead of doing the Big Y-700 test but then you’ll only be matching to someone who has already tested and not finding your own personal SNPs for someone closer to match to. Usually the people who try to go the cheaper route (many of us have done this) will eventually break down and buy the Big Y test because we want those private SNPs but now we will have ultimately spent more money than just doing the test in the first place. Just save up for the test. The sales are good now and it is nowhere as expensive as it used to be. That will give you the answer you’re really looking for.? Chris
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On Apr 24, 2020, at 2:49 AM, John < john@...> wrote: Thanks Chris - yes I have been following the discussion on U106. I had already seen that interesting article by Iain, and have read (and saved links to!) a lot of the stuff on his website. I have found Anthrogenica and am lurking in Eupedia :-)
I did upload my autosomal data to FTDNA and am finding it interesting to look at what is available there. One thing that jumped out was that one of my top three matches is R-Z343 which is not far above S6881. That was from a Y111 test. However most are simply M269, and I am guessing that I won't get much deeper information than I already have unless I take the BigY test.
It would be interesting to get below S6881. Is BigY the only way to do this? I am guessing that the Y111 test would not tell me anything I don't already know.
John
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Thanks Chris - OK, I have succumbed! Since the sale is on I have put in a BigY-700 order. My wife has OK-d it on the grounds that we can't go on holiday anywhere this year :-)
It will give me something to look forward to whilst we are in this lockdown.
Cheers
John
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Oh yay! I’ll watch for results for you if you come up as a match to my kit. We’ll get you sorted to a spot in the tree when they come in. Great news! Chris
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On Apr 24, 2020, at 6:58 AM, John < john@...> wrote: Thanks Chris - OK, I have succumbed! Since the sale is on I have put in a BigY-700 order. My wife has OK-d it on the grounds that we can't go on holiday anywhere this year :-)
It will give me something to look forward to whilst we are in this lockdown.
Cheers
John
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My kit has arrived at FTDNA today. Happy to wait patiently for the Big Y results!
John
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Wonderful news! It can take a while to get the results back. Now is the part that teaches you patience :)
Chris
On Fri, May 29, 2020 at 11:27 AM John < john@...> wrote: My kit has arrived at FTDNA today. Happy to wait patiently for the Big Y results!
John
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Big Y results came in whilst I was away. Whew! What a lot of information! I guess I'm going to need some help in finding my way about this lot ...
John
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John, ?? I'll send you some stuff later today. It isn't really very hard. Actually, the block tree on FTDNA will show you where you land but I'll give you a bigger spreadsheet that I think is a little easier to read.
Chris
On Wed, Jul 29, 2020 at 7:55 AM John < john@...> wrote: Big Y results came in whilst I was away. Whew! What a lot of information! I guess I'm going to need some help in finding my way about this lot ...
John
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John