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Re: New file uploaded to R1b-S6881
If you're wondering it, Mary, you can be sure so are others. And this group just started so it isn't like we've discussed this stuff. This really all comes from Dr. Iain McDonald's BigY spreadsheet. Those are the amount of singletons and singleton indels each?kit has. SNPs are single nucleotide polymorphisms (that's a mouthful, huh? That's why the shorthand is SNP, pronounced like snip) They are mutations in the genes that have mutated from the way they were back at the beginning of man (or at least from a reference set). They track those mutations in the Y-DNA to come up with who you are related to (they'll have at least some of the same SNPs) and what your haplogroup is (basically the name of the youngest SNP you share with someone). Singletons are the SNPs that no one matched up to. So those are your younger SNPs that will need closer family relations to match to. Indels are inserts/deletions. So the SNPs are just a single mutation. So for Graves 156606, the mutation at location 22440221 moved to a value of C from the ancestral value of T. If the BigY results are analyzed by one of the third party companies (Full Genomes Corp. or YFull is who we usually use) they will name the unnamed mutations they deem "good" meaning it's in an area they can get a clean read and they feel it is real. So eventually, those singletons could have names like S6881, A8050, FGC42045, etc got named. Indels are STRs (short tandem repeats) where the DNA does a kind of stutter thing repeating a pattern multiple times, ACCAACCAACCA. They count how many times the pattern repeats and that's how you get your STR values, such as the very common one for people who are S6881 and below where DYS492 = 14.? You should be able to see what your STR values are in the U106 DNA results on FTDNA. So, an Indel is where the mutation loses a piece of the pattern. So for Graves 232994 he lost part of the pattern (a deletion) at location 15658103 and went from TAT to T. The funny stuff at the beginning of that is Iain's code that means questionable singleton. The key is up at the top left of the results spreadsheet. So your first Graves has 4 singletons and 1 indel and your second Graves has 1 singleton and no indels. So the second Graves only needs one more match to get to his terminal SNP and be done finding people who match his mutations. Your first Graves has more matches to find, but neither have as many as a lot of the rest of us. Let me know if that just caused more confusion and questions, or if anyone wants to chime in and correct my explanation. I'm not the expert here and I'll be happy to learn from others. Chris On Thu, Jan 26, 2017 at 5:56 AM, kgnmeg@... [R1b-S6881] <R1b-S6881@...> wrote:
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Re: New file uploaded to R1b-S6881
Trying to understand more about what I'm seeing in the chart. I'll start with this question.?
Graves-232994 Graves-156606 Singletons/Indels Singletons/Indels 4/1 ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?1/0 (s?!)15658103.TAT.T 22440221.T.C 22177300.A.T What do these numbers at the bottom of the chart tell me exactly? For instance I don't know what a singleton is nor an Indels ?But also wonder what the 4/1 and 1/0 means to me? New member to the group so pardon me if I need some remedial classes. ?Thanks Mary |
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New file uploaded to R1b-S6881
Hello,
This email message is a notification to let you know that a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the R1b-S6881 group. File : /Iain Age Speculation.docx Uploaded by : cerri37 <avalea3@...> Description : Iain's musings on ages and origins of U106, Z8, S6881 and below. You can access this file at the URL: To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit: Regards, cerri37 <avalea3@...> |
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SVG Tree
? So I don't know how many of you follow the postings on U106 Yahoo Group and how many go to check out what Dr. Iain McDonald is doing for us, but he just put together a fabulous tree of our SNPs. And because we have the most tested clade our SNPs are right at the top so it is really easy to follow. If you go look at the below link you will see what probably at first seems like a confusing mess. But go look over to the right and find your last shared subclade (if you don't know it you should be able to see that from the tree I have posted on our S6881 group). If you hover your mouse over your subclade it will give you the path all the way back to U106. For example, A11376 shows: U106>Z381>Z301>L48>Z9>Z30>Z2>Z7>Z8>Z1>Z364>Z343>FGC11780>S6881>A11376. These are all the major named SNPs from U106 to A11376 in order. You will also see his age predictions for your subclade when you hover your mouse over your subclade. He explains it all at the top of the page. And, a really exciting piece, he puts your SNP on a timeline and tells you above it what were the cultures at that time in the?world and what was happening with the climate. So if you want to see what was happening anywhere along your different SNPs as they travel from U106 to your current subclade (these all represent ancestors of yours) go check it out and see. Very fascinating!
? |
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Re: Viewing Excel files with an iPad
¿ªÔÆÌåÓýThanks, Cynthia. I'll give this a try. I work mostly on my desktop because of work but it's good to know how I can see it on my iPad. Thanks for the instructions.? Chris On Jan 15, 2017, at 7:29 AM, prosperity200220815@... [R1b-S6881] <R1b-S6881@...> wrote:
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Viewing Excel files with an iPad
First, thank you Chris this spreadsheet is a dream come true. It is beautiful!!! Wow how S6881 has grown. Thank you.?
For those of you who may be working off iPads, I do, there is an easy way to view the Excel spreadsheets As our branch grows there will be more updates to download. Here is what I have learned to do... First, ?I installed the app "NUMBERS" onto my iPads. When I need to open an Excel file from this Group or the U106 Group here's what I do. From my browser I tap on the file I want to download from here onto my iPad. As it begins to download onto my browser a bar across the top on the right opens asking "Open in Numbers" and I quickly tap that bar. Immediately the file finishes opening in Numbers. And, what you will see before you is magnificent. It is our history unfolding it is our shared descent through time. Remember the Age Analysis will constantly changes as new S6881 testers share their results with our U106 group.? This is the best time to learn this as our S6881 spreadsheet is small so it quickly opens. However, the U106 844 spreadsheet will take much longer. I have an iPad Air2 plus an iPad Pro. Hope that helps.? Much to cheer about!! Cynthia? |
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Re: New updated files
Goodness Chris what a wonderful way to start this day, your news is music to my ears!! Even before I head over to view what you've done for our group I am beyond excited. Thank you so much for ALL you are doing for us. SO exciting to learn of this progress, AND we are to the left!!!! Hey, it just occurred to me how we as cousin, distant as that might be, share this sincere interest. At last I am able to be back on board. I am so grateful for your leadership and skills!!
Cynthia |
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New updated files
? ?So you guys have been working so hard to find close matches to test that we've broken the tree. I spent all day yesterday reordering everyone's BigY test results so we could see who was matching to whom. And there are lots of new branches! I've uploaded two files. One shows the actual SNP data below U106 distilled down just to our positive SNPs. I color coded it to show what little group you are in. It also shows the singletons you have left to match to someone who hasn't come along yet. The other file is a sort of tree, color coded to match the groups in the first file. Only now we've split out into so many groups it isn't as simple and clean any longer. That's a good thing for the group but not easy to represent. So I've taken my best stab at it and hopefully, it still makes sense. Both files are done in Excel. If you don't have anything that will open Excel we'll have to see what we can do for you but the tree is too long and wide to go on one sheet of paper in Word any longer. Iain runs the software for the new U106 BigY spreadsheet (where I get our results) and in his instructions he says the results on his spreadsheet are ordered with the largest sub-clades on the left. Well, guess who is all the way on the left now? Yes, us! And Iain told me we managed to become the best tested Z343 group and improved the age estimate of S6881 considerably from all our testing. Kudos to all of you! ? ?So, some of you are nodding along with what I'm saying and need no help at all. Others?are wondering what language I'm speaking. Please speak up here. This is the place to ask your questions, big or small. And if you are wondering it, probably someone else is too. I don't profess to know all the answers but we can certainly go looking for the ones we don't know. The more you understand this, the easier it's going to be to find good matches for you and for you to explain to these matches why you want them to test. Look things over and let me know where I didn't make things clear enough. I will upload a word document on everything Iain has said to date on the ages of our S6881 group. Let me know if you can think of anything else we should have in our files section, or if you have something you think is really good, upload it yourself. Thanks for working so hard for this part of the tree. Chris |
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New file uploaded to R1b-S6881
Hello,
This email message is a notification to let you know that a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the R1b-S6881 group. File : /S6881 Yahoo Group 11317.xlsx Uploaded by : cerri37 <avalea3@...> Description : BigY Data showing where you match up with others Jan 13, 2017 You can access this file at the URL: To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit: Regards, cerri37 <avalea3@...> |
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New file uploaded to R1b-S6881
Hello,
This email message is a notification to let you know that a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the R1b-S6881 group. File : /S6881 Tree Yahoogroup 11317.xlsx Uploaded by : cerri37 <avalea3@...> Description : Updated SNP tree from Jan 13, 2017 You can access this file at the URL: To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit: Regards, cerri37 <avalea3@...> |
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Grave's BigY
Roy and Jim and Cynthia,? ? You guys might be interested to know that there is a new Graves BigY test which should be in the next U106 BigY spreadsheet. It won't touch your?results but matches up with Keith's (so gen 169 Thomas). The results should push that group of Warburton/Graves apart just like all the testing you are doing on your little group has pushed your Warburton/Graves apart. So the tree just keeps changing. In fact, most of our new BigY tests have managed to match up some singletons to already existing testers. My kit wasn't lucky enough for that but there will be lots of tree changes. I'll post them all after the last of these tests are run by Iain. Chris |
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Re: Iain's further age speculation
¿ªÔÆÌåÓýJim
It is amazing the number of Thomas Graves around at the time. Capt Thomas is well known was a purchaser of shares in the Va Company located in London.
No one that I have read knows the cause of death or place of death. If you haven't read of his activities after he arrived here you need to go to Graves Family Assoc. and go to gen 169. It's has the Capts exploits here in America.
But I'm sure you e read that although it's worth reading twice.
He is NOT the same Thomas Graves of Conn.
Cynthia Sexton and I have spent three years tracking who we call Lost Thomas. But we aren't done yet!
Sincerely
Roy S Graves
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Re: Iain's further age speculation
¿ªÔÆÌåÓýRoy, What do you know about the ¡°Capt. Thomas Graves who arrived in Jamestown in 1608¡±?? Is he the Thomas Graves who died in 1662 in New Hampshire? Unusual/Unlikely migration.
Jim ? ? From: R1b-S6881@... [mailto:R1b-S6881@...]
Sent: Friday, December 30, 2016 6:14 PM To: R1b-S6881@... Cc: Cynthia Sexton Subject: Re: [R1b-S6881] Iain's further age speculation ? ? Yeah Chris I get excited about it. I've no idea if there is any truth to it but it's been written the first Graves arrived in England in 1066 with William. His name was supposedly Hugh de Greave or Grieves. Could be totally erroneous but fun to think about anyway. ? Some of those old legends/ stories clearly become false but sometimes they have a little basis in fact. I'm sure genetics will sort all this out eventually.? Anyway I appreciate you guys and the truths eventually uncovered by science.? ? BTW- I've no idea what 90% of your studies mean but I'm getting there. ? Sincerely Roy S. Graves Ps- my family is now located in Alabama but we've only been here for about 150 years. We may be related to a Capt Thomas Graves who arrived in Jamestown in 1608. That may not be the gospel truth but it is a goal of both Cynthia Sexton and myself to find out. ??
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Re: Iain's further age speculation
¿ªÔÆÌåÓýHe's referring to our whole group but below S6881 as he feels that SNP didn't form in England. But there are other SNPs under S6881 that we all share but can't be dated yet as they form an unbroken block at this time. Hopefully someone will come along and help break up the block.? Chris On Dec 30, 2016, at 7:16 PM, prosperity200220815@... [R1b-S6881] <R1b-S6881@...> wrote:
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Re: Updated Tree
Hi Chris, and all...
This is what I was hoping for by this group forming. The rich history you and JIm are gathering from Iain is magnificent. Thank you for so generously sharing it with us all. Might there be a way to separate out these details and place them into a separate file? As more S6881 folks join us the history that is unfolding might make all this genetic information more tangible for some. Just an idea. I've been away from the group for a couple of weeks and wow so much has happened!! |
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Re: Iain's further age speculation
¿ªÔÆÌåÓýYeah Chris I get excited about it. I've no idea if there is any truth to it but it's been written the first Graves arrived in England in 1066 with William. His name was supposedly Hugh de Greave or Grieves. Could be totally erroneous but fun to think about
anyway.
Some of those old legends/ stories clearly become false but sometimes they have a little basis in fact. I'm sure genetics will sort all this out eventually.?
Anyway I appreciate you guys and the truths eventually uncovered by science.?
BTW- I've no idea what 90% of your studies mean but I'm getting there.
Sincerely
Roy S. Graves
Ps- my family is now located in Alabama but we've only been here for about 150 years. We may be related to a Capt Thomas Graves who arrived in Jamestown in 1608. That may not be the gospel truth but it is a goal of both Cynthia
Sexton and myself to find out. ??
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Iain's further age speculation
After Jim's results came in Iain shared two things. One was to Jim and myself (I hope you don't mind my sharing this Jim): "Your relationship with the Graves and Sexton group is around 1000 years ago (give or take a few centuries). The pattern of development since S6881 (about 1400 years ago) is suggestive of a post-Roman but pre-Norman origin. It's too early to say you descend from the "Anglo-Saxon" invaders, but that would be a direction in which we would want to explore." And then to me today: "The range of ages is now starting to be constrained enough to almost rule out certain possibilities. It's now starting to look less likely that your family has a Roman origin or a Norman origin. The range of ages most likely brackets somewhere between the post-Roman ("Anglo-Saxon") migration and that Danelaw." I don't know if you guys get excited about this stuff, but I do. It really helps that we might be able to speculate when our common ancestor made it to England and what group he came with. It's nice to get some concrete idea of how long we've been in England (though some of us have subsequently left). Hopefully, this will give you something to ponder as we move into the new year. Wishing you all a happy New Year and I hope I'll have more news soon. Chris ? |
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Updated Tree
These are exciting times for our group as the new BigY results come in. We've already had one block of SNPs broken (thanks, Jim!) and it appears we'll have more broken soon. There are a couple of BigY results which I think would be very helpful for us but I have to get the people willing to join the U106 group and to upload their results.I'm holding out hope for twigs springing up all over our piece of the tree. ? In line with the new twigs, I have updated the S6881 tree. Expect more updates to follow and that eventually I won't be able to keep the tree to one page. I'll keep updating every time Iain's results show new developments for us. ? ?Speaking of Iain, I have been in contact with him recently and we've been talking about our part of the tree and ages. This is what he wrote before our most recent results were in: "Z8 seems to be an early Germanic SNP, occurring somewhere in the western Baltic region around 3000 years ago. Z343 seems to be more closely concentrated in the British Isles, the Low Countries, and Germany. Under the "Germanic" scenario, this may correspond to the migration of the Germans out of the Baltic and into continental Europe around 700 BC. When looking at our results, we expect 2/3 of lines to be British and 1/3 to be European. When calculating lines, we aren't talking about people living today, but the ancient lines they descend from, like A11376, A11377 and any ancient lines we can infer from STRs. S6881 seems to have more of a concentration in the British Isles, but its parent FGC11780 doesn't have the same bias. So we can say that the migration to Great Britain happened after S6881 formed (184 AD ¡ª 1082 AD). A11376 and A11377 seem to have a distinct location in western central England, and probably both arose there sometime in the period 629 AD ¡ª 1336 AD. So we're maybe looking at a migration of this group from Germany or nearby to the west of England at some point around the "Anglo-Saxon" or Norman migrations. I hope this gives you some insight. Do remember that this is all very speculative right now." I will post what he shared after Jim's results came in on another post. Thanks for being willing explorers as we try to find our distant past. Chris ? |
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