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Re: R-S6881 News?
Hi Cynthia,
No the Graves aren¡¯t Warburtons. I am simply showing the position of the Warburtons within S6881. The Warburtons start with Thomas b 1490. What is confusing is that there is one completely separate branch of Warburtons, the descendants of Benjamin of Elton, which sits on the other side of the S6881 tree. This is either the descendants of a different ¡®original¡¯ Warburton, or the result of a non-paternal event within the known Warburton group. I also have the branch under Robert of Musbury, which is a distant STR match to the other Warburtons, but for which I have no SNPs. I believe it must be S6881, but the STR match is sufficiently old that I can¡¯t be sure if it relates to either of the other Warburton groups, or is descended from another ¡®original¡¯ Warburton. By ¡®original¡¯ I mean a first adopter of the name in the Middle Ages. Regards Ray Ray Warburton Warburton Website: |
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Re: R-S6881 News?
Hi Ray and Chris,
Thank you for your post. I¡¯m confused by this news regarding S6881 and the Warburtons. Can you help me understand what this means. Are these Graves men listed on your chart actually Warburtons?? Up until now I thought they simply descended from S6881 without an assignment to any surname. These men, Roy, Grady, Keith, and (John) are in the Graves project. We joined our kits to your Warburton project when we learned of descending from SNP S6881. I¡¯m now very confused. Please help me correctly understand. What is this chart stating?? Help! Thank you Cynthia |
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Re: R-S6881 News?
I have made some progress in confirming that all elements of my Lancashire Group of Warburtons share SNP A15056 which sits below A11378. The only group for which I don¡¯t have a test result for is the descendants of Robert of Musbury (died 1694), known as the Haslingden clan. This is one of the larger clans so I am on the lookout for a test volunteer.
I have even added a new group from Yorkshire based on a non-Warburton BigY-700 which helped identify a non-paternal event. Also there is one other Warburton group which is S6881, but on the A1377/A11379 side. My current favoured explanation for this is that the name comes from the main Lancashire group, but via a non-paternal event. My haplotree showing the group within the context of S6881 is at Regards Ray Ray Warburton Warburton Website: |
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Re: yDNA Block List
Yes, Jim, I too prefer the Big Tree to the Block List. I find it cumbersome and difficult to see the bigger picture. Also, if you have more than 30 unmatched SNP differences with anyone they become invisible to you even though you know they are a match of yours. Now with the Y700 data adding more SNPs (some maybe garbage) you can pretty much guarantee that you will lose some of your matches. So if they matter to you capture all the data before you either order the test or get results as some will no longer be available to you. At least on the Big Tree you can see all the matches, but only if they upload their data there. So that becomes the problem. FTDNA is filtering out your matches, people won't show on Alex's Big Tree unless they upload their data, and people won't show on Y-Full's tree unless they upload their data and pay to have it analyzed. So nowhere is there a place that you can REALLY see who is in the tree with you. I've been keeping a spreadsheet but I can only do it for the matches that FTDNA shows me and they've cut that in half now. I can post my spreadsheet but it is going to get out of date pretty fast now. I don't know what the solution is. As for Iain's dating, he says he is working on getting it going again. He's been busy with work and writing a book so he's just now turning his attention back to it. The Big Tree is using some of his dating but only for the P312 guys and those are the only ones Alex really works with. The U106 guys are just languishing right now. I think Ray or Wayne did some work with them at one point but it's been sitting for a long time while they try to write a new program for it so results from different companies can be compared. The change to the Hg38 reference and the Y700 test has really shaken things up that were humming along. We'll have to wait to see if they can get it going well again. In the meantime if there are questions I can do my best to find answers for people. Chris
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Re: R-S6881 News?
Hi Cynthia, ?? Nice to see you back. The files section has all of our data. But it is kind of old. I could update it but not sure if anyone was even using it any longer. Chris
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yDNA Block List
¿ªÔÆÌåÓýI find the FTDNA block list hard to navigate.
Try this one: ? They aren't exactly the same, but close.
I miss Ian MacDonald's age estimates.
Jim
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Re: R-S6881 News?
Hey!!
I was locked out forever it seems. grrr. I¡¯ve been thinking about each of you. It has been too long. I was so happy to see Jim¡¯s post. I decided I would push through to figure out how to get logged back in. Chris I really want to catch up!! Hope we can when you have time. Mary, you¡¯ve got to even call me or let me know when I can catch you up on recent communication with a few folks from the GFA group. Talk with me first so I can inform you. Just read the above note YES let¡¯s talk asap. I¡¯m going to poke around here to see what I¡¯ve missed. Did everyone do the upgrade to Y700? I should have read every entry first. YES, I got my brother and Roy, my cousin. Haven¡¯t heard yet. I think Roy has not even sent in the kit, and my brother¡¯s is in the lab right now. back to reading.... |
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Re: R-S6881 News?
¿ªÔÆÌåÓýThanks so much for that advice. I¡¯ll send a note to him as he is pretty excited about the match and is researching the Graves tree to see if he can find possibly where our match would be.?Thanks On Jul 17, 2019, at 12:44 PM, Chris Noble avalea3@... [R1b-S6881] <R1b-S6881@...> wrote:
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Re: R-S6881 News?
Yes, Mary, your new match should test out to at least S6881 since he has the value of 14 at STR DYS492. You might see if he'll do a Y700 and you could upgrade at the same time and see how you guys come out. As I recall, John doesn't want to do any more testing so I think he won't be upgrading. This would be a good opportunity to expand your portion of the tree. Chris
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Re: R-S6881 News?
Thanks Chris,
I definitely will wait for a sale but I also had thought if it would be
helpful or not as I don't know if anyone else is testing.? I haven't heard from
Keith's match, perhaps I'll try to contact him to see if he plans on testing
more and see if he answers. Haven't heard from Cynthia for some time either. She
was in contact with him to begin with.?
Thank you for the reply and definitely for ?the suggestion on the SNP's.? I
didn't know there had been changes, even without the upgraded testing. I'm so
hung up in the autosomal testing with 9 kits that I've been away from the Y so
will have to get myself back into it.
?
I was recently contacted by a new match in at the Y67 level. I suggested he
get at least the Y111 and see where he stood.? He did and he still matches both my
husband and our match here in the BigY at Y111 level.? Curious if he would test
positive for the S6881 SNP.? He is placed in our Graves?Project tree?at ftDNA in
the R1-169b section. His kit is 904856 there.
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I'll try to contact Cynthia and our Match kit.
Thanks again
Mary E |
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Re: R-S6881 News?
Hi Mary, ?? If you do decide to do the Y700 wait for a sale. It really makes a difference in the cost. Also, unless others in your close matches are going to do it too it might not change your assigned SNP, so just be aware. I knew when I did the upgrade it wouldn't change anything for me since my closest match appears to have dropped out of testing and answering emails so I'm on my own. But I did pick up new SNPs, just no one to match them up with yet. I'm updating a spreadsheet I keep of all my matches and their SNPs and almost everyone has had changes to their results. So for anyone keeping track of their SNPs you might want to check and see what you have now. I see SNPs that have been dropped and a lot added for most people. And this also pertains to people who haven't upgraded from Y500. Chris
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Re: R-S6881 News?
Nice to see a message on our group, I¡¯ve been wondering also if there was anything new and I somehow missed it.
I did not do the Y700 yet for my husbands kit. Graves 232994. I¡¯ve wondered how many did in our group. Have been planning to do it and may do it soon, I think he may have to do a fresh swab because he tested a bit ago. I don¡¯t know if our proven match is planning to upgrade Does anyone have a track on how many in the group has done Y700? MaryE Sent from my iPad thingy ? |
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Re: R-S6881 News?
I haven't posted anything recently but I did upgrade to the BY700 on my kit. The results just came back and I've lost sight of about half our group now. I'm guessing it's because of their SNP difference limit (30) and more SNPs found in the test so too many of us have more than 30 differences between our kits. But I'm not completely sure that is what the issue is. Also, it takes a bit for the kit to settle down after the tests so things could change for me. The new Block Tree on FTDNA is kind of like the spreadsheet I used to post of the branches in our area of the tree and how the SNPs are related and who you are closest to so I quit posting it. I do still keep track of it but I could only give you what was current up to a week or so ago. Since then I've lost about 30 matches and those results
(I went from 65 matches to 35)
so I won't know if there are changes in those lines going forward. But if it would be helpful to anyone I can post what I have. Since Iain has been busy with work and writing his book the SNP aging has suffered and I don't have anything for the newer lines now. YFull does aging too but they only have a small handful of the U106 tests so it isn't all that accurate for most of us. If there is something specific anyone has questions about let me know and we'll see if we can be of help. Let me know. Chris On Wed, Jul 17, 2019 at 6:37 AM rodolfo chanique rodolfo_chanique@... [R1b-S6881] <R1b-S6881@...> wrote:
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Re: R-S6881 News?
Hi Jim, How are you? No, unfortunatelly I didn?t receive news. I?m in R-FGC 42045 but not confirmed yet. Kind regards, Rodolfo Chanique On Tuesday, July 16, 2019, 11:25:31 PM GMT-4, jim jim@... [R1b-S6881] wrote: ? Any news for our DNA group since the last message a year ago? |
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Re: Family finder test [8 Attachments]
Dale Latham
¿ªÔÆÌåÓýThanks Douglas.. My family goes back to the 1790¡¯s in Maryland and North Carolina but I know of none that might have moved to Kentucky.? ? Dale ? From: R1b-S6881@... [mailto:R1b-S6881@...]
Sent: Monday, June 18, 2018 12:26 AM To: R1b-S6881@... Cc: Cynthia M. Sexton ; Chris Noble <777chris.noble@...> Subject: Re: [R1b-S6881] Family finder test [8 Attachments] ? ? [Attachment(s) from d Lathrem included below] Hi Dale, ? It is known to me that our Surname, Lathrem is derived from Latham.? I have asked my son to forward to me copies of genealogy information on the Lathrem family.? Coincidentally, I just went through some photos of memorials with the Lathrem name, and others, that were taken by my father from a cemetery, I believe, in Kentucky where my grandfather, Samuel Franklin Lathrem was born.? I am not listing the wives names on the tombstones in that they are not in the paternal DNA through which we may be linked.? The first photo $173 includes Samuel, and my mother Alice Cleora Schell Lathrem, who were, as you can see, very much alive at the time.? The other individuals in the photo may, or may not, be Lathrems.? I have no information with the photo.? The second photo #174, is of Noah Abrams who passed in 1953, and which does not ring a bell with me, but must have some significance in that it was included with the other photos.? The third photo #175, Is of David Lathrem, who passed in 1970,again I don't know the relationship, if any.? The fourth photo #1766, is of Burton Lathrem who, apparently, was not deceased by the time the photo was taken.? No information there as well.? The Fifth Photo #177 is of Ambrose T. Lathrem, who passed in 1924 and is my great-grandfather.? The Sixth Photo #178 is of, Mallie Lathrem, who passed in 1939 and is also unknown to me.? The seventh Photo #179 may be a means of giving an orientation to where the vareious monuments may be located.? The eighth photo may be helpful in determining the name of the cemetary and includes Samuel, Alice, a second lady whom I don't recognize, and my father Charles Ira Lathrem. ? Chis, ? You asked for my most distant relative and I have some going back well before my grandfather who was Samuel Franklin Lathrem, born in 1882 in Kentucky.? He and my father had a business laying concrete streets, curb, gutters, catch basins, etc around Dayton, Ohio.? Sam built several of his homes and my father Charles Ira Lathrem took over the business, CI & SF Lathrem Contractors, in the 1960s, as I recall, but my brother Charles Alan Lathrem would know exactly I think.? Alan was my only Sibling that lived beyond a short time after birth as was the fate of my oldest sibling Samuel Franklin Lathrem II. ? I am including some information that I sent to Chris Noble and Cynthia M. Sexton who are working on the DNA materials and individuals who may be related to determine relationships.? That follows: ? "My brother Charles Alan goes by his middle name as you can see from the address above.? Alan provided me with a great deal of historical information that I have had difficulty laying my hands on.? We moved two years ago and some things are still somewhere that remains to be determined.? So, I will ask that he provide that to me again so that we can get more information to you on the tree going back through Samuel, the elder.? It does get confusing in that I have a son named Samuel Douglas Lathrem and a grandson Samuel Douglas Lathrem.? I also have a son named Brian Scott Lathrem as well as four other grandchildren.? But, these folks are not in your big picture.? I furnish them in the interest of avoiding future confusion, especially regarding the name Samuel." ? I now have information on my grandfather that I did not have when I first responded to Cynthia and Chris.? I'm sending this along to them for their information and in the event that they may want to be in contact with you, if they have not already connected. ? Good luck in your search. ? Douglas W. Lathrem ? ? ? On Sun, Jun 17, 2018 at 10:43 PM, dale Latham daleslatham@... [R1b-S6881] <R1b-S6881@...> wrote:
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Re: Family finder test [8 Attachments]
¿ªÔÆÌåÓýDale, FamilyFinder is very good for finding and contacting relatives with a common ancestor in the last 4 or 5 generations - on any of your ancestral lines.? Sometimes it is difficult to figure out what family is actually the connection. The U106 website (page 7) puts you in the BY11971 group, which includes someone (Kenny) who says he is descended from Alexander Latham (1757-1830 Ashe Co NC)?? But you probably connect several ?generations before that. ? I am in the list just above that, BY16315? (Isaac Liptrap)? The TIP score between us, at 90%, estimates a connection around the 12th to 14th generation back ¨C around 1500. Curiously, Kenny Latham is among my matches, but the estimate is around the 18th generation ¨C around 1400.? Both dates are before Parish Registers, so we may never have a name to put to a common ancestor. ? But yes, contact both your yDNA matches and your Family Finder matches.? And share the information you have. ? Jim Liptrap ? ? From: R1b-S6881@... [mailto:R1b-S6881@...]
Sent: Monday, June 18, 2018 2:26 AM To: R1b-S6881@... Cc: Cynthia M. Sexton; Chris Noble Subject: Re: [R1b-S6881] Family finder test [8 Attachments] ? ? [Attachment(s) from d Lathrem included below] Hi Dale, ? It is known to me that our Surname, Lathrem is derived from Latham.? I have asked my son to forward to me copies of genealogy information on the Lathrem family.? Coincidentally, I just went through some photos of memorials with the Lathrem name, and others, that were taken by my father from a cemetery, I believe, in Kentucky where my grandfather, Samuel Franklin Lathrem was born.? I am not listing the wives names on the tombstones in that they are not in the paternal DNA through which we may be linked.? The first photo $173 includes Samuel, and my mother Alice Cleora Schell Lathrem, who were, as you can see, very much alive at the time.? The other individuals in the photo may, or may not, be Lathrems.? I have no information with the photo.? The second photo #174, is of Noah Abrams who passed in 1953, and which does not ring a bell with me, but must have some significance in that it was included with the other photos.? The third photo #175, Is of David Lathrem, who passed in 1970,again I don't know the relationship, if any.? The fourth photo #1766, is of Burton Lathrem who, apparently, was not deceased by the time the photo was taken.? No information there as well.? The Fifth Photo #177 is of Ambrose T. Lathrem, who passed in 1924 and is my great-grandfather.? The Sixth Photo #178 is of, Mallie Lathrem, who passed in 1939 and is also unknown to me.? The seventh Photo #179 may be a means of giving an orientation to where the vareious monuments may be located.? The eighth photo may be helpful in determining the name of the cemetary and includes Samuel, Alice, a second lady whom I don't recognize, and my father Charles Ira Lathrem. ? Chis, ? You asked for my most distant relative and I have some going back well before my grandfather who was Samuel Franklin Lathrem, born in 1882 in Kentucky.? He and my father had a business laying concrete streets, curb, gutters, catch basins, etc around Dayton, Ohio.? Sam built several of his homes and my father Charles Ira Lathrem took over the business, CI & SF Lathrem Contractors, in the 1960s, as I recall, but my brother Charles Alan Lathrem would know exactly I think.? Alan was my only Sibling that lived beyond a short time after birth as was the fate of my oldest sibling Samuel Franklin Lathrem II. ? I am including some information that I sent to Chris Noble and Cynthia M. Sexton who are working on the DNA materials and individuals who may be related to determine relationships.? That follows: ? "My brother Charles Alan goes by his middle name as you can see from the address above.? Alan provided me with a great deal of historical information that I have had difficulty laying my hands on.? We moved two years ago and some things are still somewhere that remains to be determined.? So, I will ask that he provide that to me again so that we can get more information to you on the tree going back through Samuel, the elder.? It does get confusing in that I have a son named Samuel Douglas Lathrem and a grandson Samuel Douglas Lathrem.? I also have a son named Brian Scott Lathrem as well as four other grandchildren.? But, these folks are not in your big picture.? I furnish them in the interest of avoiding future confusion, especially regarding the name Samuel." ? I now have information on my grandfather that I did not have when I first responded to Cynthia and Chris.? I'm sending this along to them for their information and in the event that they may want to be in contact with you, if they have not already connected. ? Good luck in your search. ? Douglas W. Lathrem ? ? ? On Sun, Jun 17, 2018 at 10:43 PM, dale Latham daleslatham@... [R1b-S6881] <R1b-S6881@...> wrote: ? [Attachment(s) from dale Latham included below] I am new to dna testing and manage the tests taken by my uncle Kenny Latham. I just got around to looking at the family finder (autosomal?) test results for him and was surprised to find the people listed of the attached screen print who have a distant family relationship AND who also have identified the name Latham as an ancestor. Have most of you had the same experience? Is it useful for me to contact each one and compare our known family trees to search for a common Latham ancestor? Should I encourage them to take the more advanced tests?
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Re: Family finder test [1 Attachment]
Hi Dale, It is known to me that our Surname, Lathrem is derived from Latham.? I have asked my son to forward to me copies of genealogy information on the Lathrem family.? Coincidentally, I just went through some photos of memorials with the Lathrem name, and others, that were taken by my father from a cemetery, I believe, in Kentucky where my grandfather, Samuel Franklin Lathrem was born.? I am not listing the wives names on the tombstones in that they are not in the paternal DNA through which we may be linked.? The first photo $173 includes Samuel, and my mother Alice Cleora Schell Lathrem, who were, as you can see, very much alive at the time.? The other individuals in the photo may, or may not, be Lathrems.? I have no information with the photo.? The second photo #174, is of Noah Abrams who passed in 1953, and which does not ring a bell with me, but must have some significance in that it was included with the other photos.? The third photo #175, Is of David Lathrem, who passed in 1970,again I don't know the relationship, if any.? The fourth photo #1766, is of Burton Lathrem who, apparently, was not deceased by the time the photo was taken.? No information there as well.? The Fifth Photo #177 is of Ambrose T. Lathrem, who passed in 1924 and is my great-grandfather.? The Sixth Photo #178 is of, Mallie Lathrem, who passed in 1939 and is also unknown to me.? The seventh Photo #179 may be a means of giving an orientation to where the vareious monuments may be located.? The eighth photo may be helpful in determining the name of the cemetary and includes Samuel, Alice, a second lady whom I don't recognize, and my father Charles Ira Lathrem. Chis, You asked for my most distant
relative and I have some going back well before my grandfather who was
Samuel Franklin Lathrem, born in 1882 in Kentucky.? He and my father had
a business laying concrete streets, curb, gutters, catch basins, etc
around Dayton, Ohio.? Sam built several of his homes and my father
Charles Ira Lathrem took over the business, CI & SF Lathrem
Contractors, in the 1960s, as I recall, but my brother Charles Alan
Lathrem would know exactly I think.? Alan was my only Sibling that lived
beyond a short time after birth as was the fate of my oldest sibling
Samuel Franklin Lathrem II. I am including some information that I sent to Chris Noble and Cynthia M. Sexton who are working on the DNA materials and individuals who may be related to determine relationships.? That follows: "My brother Charles
Alan goes by his middle name as you can see from the address above.?
Alan provided me with a great deal of historical information that I have
had difficulty laying my hands on.? We moved two years ago and some
things are still somewhere that remains to be determined.? So, I will
ask that he provide that to me again so that we can get more information
to you on the tree going back through Samuel, the elder.? It does get
confusing in that I have a son named Samuel Douglas Lathrem and a
grandson Samuel Douglas Lathrem.? I also have a son named Brian Scott
Lathrem as well as four other grandchildren.? But, these folks are not
in your big picture.? I furnish them in the interest of avoiding future
confusion, especially regarding the name Samuel." I now have information on my grandfather that I did not have when I first responded to Cynthia and Chris.? I'm sending this along to them for their information and in the event that they may want to be in contact with you, if they have not already connected. Good luck in your search. Douglas W. Lathrem On Sun, Jun 17, 2018 at 10:43 PM, dale Latham daleslatham@... [R1b-S6881] <R1b-S6881@...> wrote:
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Family finder test
dale Latham
I am new to dna testing and manage the tests taken by my uncle Kenny Latham. I just got around to looking at the family finder (autosomal?) test results for him and was surprised to find the people listed of the attached screen print who have a distant family relationship AND who also have identified the name Latham as an ancestor. Have most of you had the same experience? Is it useful for me to contact each one and compare our known family trees to search for a common Latham ancestor? Should I encourage them to take the more advanced tests?
Thx Dale Latham Dale 503 754-8424 |
Wiredmarys