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[R1b-L513 Project] Re: Galwyddel/Lidell/Little?

 

This is a very informative thread for me, and I've learned some interesting facts from everybody.? Keep it coming!

I've been busy, or would have replied sooner.

It seems I sometimes forget facts I once knew, or mistakenly jumble things up -- like the meaning of 'gall'.

I think it was Sykes who dna sampled the Isles before he wrote his book on it (Saxons Vikings, and Celts). I still haven't finished it.? I thought he sampled southwestern Scotland too, but perhaps his data was not included in the Oxford data. Here's another interesting link that gives comparative maps and data charts of the Y-DNA distribution in the Isles. R1b and L21 appear to dominate.?

One thing of great interest that Sykes remarked on was what some people he sampled considered 'foreign' to an area in UK.? Sykes wanted to keep track of geographical differences, but one man said he wasn't from that area. Upon questioning, the man revealed he originated from an area about 5 miles away (can't remember the exact miles, but was small). Naturally Sykes was astounded that this man would consider himself a foreigner to an area only a few miles from his origins. So am I astounded. Which makes me wonder what people 1500 years ago defined as a foreigner.

I'm not a linguist, but language does interest me in relation to surnames and placenames. To randomly pick a name like Malcolm, it's a reference to Columba, with 'Mal' (I hope I get this right) meaning 'servant of' and 'colm' meaning 'Columba' (the Christian priest/abbot/evangelist of Scotland), or 'servant/follower/believer of Columba and his Christian message.

Which reminds me, Malcolm Beg is claimed to be an ancestor of our ZS4581 Drummonds. This past winter we believe we discovered that Gillespie Galbraith fathered Malcolm Beg, and that Gilchrist Bretnach fathered Gillespie Galbraith. So, are the Drummonds actually Galbraiths??

Best,

Daryl


On Sep 11, 2017 10:18 PM, "johnlgalbraith@... [R1b-L513-Project]" <R1b-L513-Project@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
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Hi Daryl,


I just wanted to point out that in Gaelic, "gall" means "stranger" or "foreigner," so Galbraith in Gaelic means "foreign Briton," rather than Gaelic Briton. And the usual understanding of "foreign Briton" is that they were Britons who were already in the area when the Gaels arrived and were, therefore, foreign to those Gaels.

Clan Galbraith traces back to a man called Gilchrist Bretnach, who lived near Dumbarton (fortress of the Britons) in the latter half of the 12th century, which was about 100 years after the Kingdom of Strathclyde had fallen to the Scots. The Britons of the area would have had to accept the Gaelic culture, but it seems that 100 years wasn't quite enough for assimilation, since Gilchrist's two sons were named Gillespic Galbrait and Rodarcus Galbrait. Gillespic Galbrait is considered to have been the first chief of Clan Galbraith. I find the shift from Bretnach (the Briton) to Galbrait (foreign Briton) quite interesting and wonder who was responsible for it.

Anyway, Galbraiths aside, it's also interesting how the word "gall" in place names is a clear indication of the people living there being considered foreigners to others nearby. For instance, your example of Galwyddel. In Gaelic, the name was Gallgeidhael,?indicating the presence of "foreign Gaels," who were probably, as you say, Norse Gaels.

Another good example is the old Gaelic name for the Hebrides, which is Innse Gall (islands of the foreigners). More Norse Gaels there, it appears.

Regarding that genetic study by Oxford University, I find it quite fascinating. I'd read about it before and seen the map, but it never fails to amaze me. I only wish their study had been covered southwestern Scotland. Oh well, maybe one day.

Regards,
John Galbraith

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Jim:

I went to the FTDNA Galbraith Project, and only found our own L193>Z17813 Galbraith there, and no other apparent L513 Galbraiths, so the answer seems to be no, Drummonds were not part of the Galbraith clan as we know it.? The Galbraith surname seems to be spread out amongst different haplogroups.? Maybe it had more of the 'foreign Briton' meaning intitially -- possibly before the clan part took hold?

Maybe John Galbraith could weigh in on the subject.


Best,

Daryl

On Sep 18, 2017 6:13 PM, "'James Drummond' jimdrummo@... [R1b-L513-Project]" <R1b-L513-Project@...> wrote:
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Daryl,

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Great question, “are the Drummonds actually Galbraiths?”

I am curious to know the answer.

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Jim Drummond

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