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Hello, This email message is a notification to let you know that the following files have been uploaded to the Files area of the [email protected] group. Uploaded By: Elizabeth <elizabethod@...> Description: Cheers, |
You are not alone Joe. Happy New Year. Finbar On Tue, Dec 31, 2019 at 10:26 PM Joe Carroll <jcarroll2@...> wrote: This is VERY confusing to me -- I can find NO WAY to post a message. Do I have to create a topic? Can't I just ramble? |
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Hello, This email message is a notification to let you know that the following files have been uploaded to the Files area of the [email protected] group. Uploaded By: ndmccarthy10@... Description: Cheers, |
Thank you Nigel Finar
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开云体育Yes, thanks indeed to such a marathon effort, provided by such a dedicated citizen scientist (though he does have credentials that place him above the most of us). ? I again point out that if any of you have 111 markers and/or the Big Y tested and you can’t find yourself on Nigel’s chart, that means you haven’t sent him the authorization he needs to make your kit number visible.? Sadly, this will probably be the last time Nigel updates this invaluable chart, so for you recalcitrant ones, now is your last chance! ? Elizabeth ? From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of Dr. Finbar O Mahony ? Thank you Nigel ? Finar ? On Thu, Jan 2, 2020 at 10:38 PM [email protected] Notification <[email protected]> wrote:
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Concerning Moriartys...
I see on the new chart that myself (169190) and my cousin with whom I share a ggggg grandfather (672601) are under the Moriarty grouping (SNP FGC17180). There are only four Moriartys under that umbrella and a host of other surnames (Kissane, Murray, Ahern, etc). Is it likely that all of these stray surnames were originally Moriartys that were adopted somehow into the families they bear the surnames of now? I did some yseq testing on two random Moriarty males I met through Facebook (one in the UK and one in Co. Cork, Ireland) and they were both negative for SNPs A2224 and FGC17189. However, they were both positive for BY2880 (with the one in Cork also being positive for A21537 and L1137). What do you think this means? That there are independently established branches of the Moriarty family or that the Moriartys in one of the two groupings have non-paternity events in their patrilineal line? I’m researching this because I want to confirm that my placement under FGC17180 means my patrilineal line was originally Moriarty (I’m obviously not a genetic Sheehan since they’re all under SNP A923). Thanks, Dustin Shane |
开云体育Dustin, ? I have wondered if there are (O’)Moriartys who are BY2880+ but FGC17180-, as Dustin has found, or even Z16251+ but A1134-. If indeed there are, they may align better with the ancient genealogies! ? Unfortunately the Moriarty Project is closed to public gaze, I believe at the request of some of its participants, so I have to respect this. Finbar O’Mahony is its Administrator. Finbar, if you are reading this and if I have this right would it be possible to ask those (O’) Moriartys who have not already done so but who WOULD like to contribute to an understanding of their first millennium origins to join the R1b-CTS4466 Plus and / or Munster Irish Projects, giving Elizabeth and myself Limited Access to their accounts? ? Dustin, could you please have these YSeq testers join YSeq Group ID 71 so that I can see their test data there? ? ? It is stated in all the pertinent literature that the O’Sheehans are a Dalcassian sept whose seat was in Lower Connello, in West Limerick. There are about 40 Sheehans whose haplotypes are available for scrutiny in the Sheehan Project Y-DNA Results pages. NOT ONE carries the Dalcassian signature associated with R-SNP L226. As you note, Dustin, the great majority are A159>...>A923>BY21614. That in itself does not mean they are the ‘true’ Sheehans, but I suspect, as you conclude, they are. ? My presumption is that there is nothing to deny the Lower Connello origin for the Sheehans, it’s just that their progenitor has been plugged into the wrong source! ? However I don’t believe you, Diustin, should necessarily assume you have O’Moriarty origins. Some of the oldest genealogical tracts, if they are to be believed – and there are those who argue they shouldn’t – provide a numerous progeny of Conall Corc from whom present day surnames are claimed to originate. Study of these in relation to potential alignment with the Eóghanacht Raithlinn tree of SNPs A1134 and Z18170 is ongoing! ? Kind regards = Nigel McCarthy ? From: Dustin Shane
Sent: 04 January 2020 16:42 To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [R1b-CTS4466-Plus] New file uploaded to [email protected] ? Concerning Moriartys... ? |
开云体育Another point regarding privacy of results in the website spreadsheets – admins have access to a Public Results Display Settings link where they can ‘Show’ or ‘Hide’ selected rows in the spreadsheet.? ‘Show’ is the default setting, but anyone who says they want to remain private can do so by the admin selecting ‘Hide Y-DNA’ for those kits.? This will not affect the rest of the project members.? It is a shame that researchers are hampered by privacy concerns if there is a way around the limitations. ? Elizabeth ? From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of Nigel McCarthy
Sent: Sunday 5 January 2020 00:15 To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [R1b-CTS4466-Plus] New file uploaded to [email protected] ? Dustin, ? I have wondered if there are (O’)Moriartys who are BY2880+ but FGC17180-, as Dustin has found, or even Z16251+ but A1134-. If indeed there are, they may align better with the ancient genealogies! ? Unfortunately the Moriarty Project is closed to public gaze, I believe at the request of some of its participants, so I have to respect this. Finbar O’Mahony is its Administrator. Finbar, if you are reading this and if I have this right would it be possible to ask those (O’) Moriartys who have not already done so but who WOULD like to contribute to an understanding of their first millennium origins to join the R1b-CTS4466 Plus and / or Munster Irish Projects, giving Elizabeth and myself Limited Access to their accounts? ? Dustin, could you please have these YSeq testers join YSeq Group ID 71 so that I can see their test data there? ? ? It is stated in all the pertinent literature that the O’Sheehans are a Dalcassian sept whose seat was in Lower Connello, in West Limerick. There are about 40 Sheehans whose haplotypes are available for scrutiny in the Sheehan Project Y-DNA Results pages. NOT ONE carries the Dalcassian signature associated with R-SNP L226. As you note, Dustin, the great majority are A159>...>A923>BY21614. That in itself does not mean they are the ‘true’ Sheehans, but I suspect, as you conclude, they are. ? My presumption is that there is nothing to deny the Lower Connello origin for the Sheehans, it’s just that their progenitor has been plugged into the wrong source! ? However I don’t believe you, Diustin, should necessarily assume you have O’Moriarty origins. Some of the oldest genealogical tracts, if they are to be believed – and there are those who argue they shouldn’t – provide a numerous progeny of Conall Corc from whom present day surnames are claimed to originate. Study of these in relation to potential alignment with the Eóghanacht Raithlinn tree of SNPs A1134 and Z18170 is ongoing! ? Kind regards = Nigel McCarthy ? From: Dustin Shane ? Concerning Moriartys... ? |
Nigel, The two Moriartys I tested have been added to Group 71. I? want to do more testing on their?samples?later this year when I have the money. Not sure if yseq offers something like the Big Y but that would be what I would order. For Sheehans, I tested four random Sheehans from Facebook in the same way (from Ireland, the UK, and the US), and every one of them was A2224- and A923+. I can also add those accounts to the Group 71 if you'd like. (I was looking for a Sheehan with roots in County Kerry that was A2224+ like myself but concluded that that line either died out in Ireland or is small enough that I probably won't find it through random testing. Makes me think that my ancestor was adopted into a Sheehan family relatively recently.) And I just realized that it's possible the original Moriarty (would it have been?O'Muircheirtaigh, descendant of Corc, or that O'Moriarty that was expelled in AD 1107?) could've had a terminal SNP of BY2880. The two Moriartys I tested who were FGC17180- and those of us who are positive for this SNP may still descend from the same branch, since we're all BY2880+. They likely have undiscovered SNPs downstream of BY2880. Looks like the other major family from the BY2880 stem was the O'Donoghues. I really need to research the ancient genealogies more to understand how this fits with them.? Dustin |
Hi Elizabeth,
I was looking at the New updated chart from Nigel. I thought I sent my fathers results to Nigel a while ago but I am not seeing him on the chart. Dad has done the Big Y 700 and is confirmed R-FT43021. Dad's kit no is B71565. I hope I am not to late to try and send Nigel to the results. Could you please advise me on how to send the my Dad's results to him. Thank you Judith |
开云体育Hello Judith. ? I confirmed with Nigel that he never received the appropriate authorisation from you to allow public display of your father’s data. ?I will copy in here the text of the email he sends out to the individuals who have not yet given him this authorisation: ? THOSE OF YOU WHO ARE RECEIVING THIS E-MAIL HAVE NOT GIVEN ME THE EXPLICIT AUTHORISATION (as requested in emails sent out from time to time by Elizabeth) TO DISPLAY THE OUTPUT FROM MY ANALYSIS OF YOUR BIG Y TEST RESULTS ON THE IRISH TYPE II TREE I HAVE MAINTAINED FOR THE R1b-CTS4466 PLUS PROJECT.? IF YOU WISH TO HAVE THIS DATA DISPLAYED, PLEASE E-MAIL ME ONE OF THE MESSAGES AT THE FOOT OF THIS E-MAIL , AS APPROPRIATE, IN THE NEXT 72 HOURS. ? WHY SHOULD YOU DO IT NOW?? I WILL NO LONGER BE MAINTAINING THIS TREE IN 2020.? THIS IS LIKELY TO BE YOUR LAST CHANCE! ? To explain a little more: ? Many of you will be aware that I have for a number of years maintained a detailed phylogenetic tree combining my interest in the R1b-CTS4466 Plus Project and a specific group of the McCarthy Surname Study. More simply I call this the IT2 tree. Why IT2? Long ago an eminent researcher coined the identity “Irish Type II” for the ancestral and modal haplotype deduced as roughly coincident with the time of SNP S1115 (as was later identified), a little downstream of SNP CTS4466 and upstream of the SNP Z18170 which is shared by all in your haplogroup (of SNP Z18170). ? The latest version of the tree is available in the R1b-CTS4466 Plus Forum Files at /g/R1b-CTS4466-Plus/files (you first need to join the forum) and on the McCarthy Study Wordpress website (see link below). Your Z18170 haplogroup is on sheet 12.? I HOPE TO PUBLISH ANOTHER TREE UPDATE ABOUT 13 JANUARY, BUT THIS WILL BE SPECIFICALLY TO BRING SHEET 12 up to date with all the Big Y-700 data released in 2019.? I will then only have Sheet 9 to overhaul, following which I intend to ‘retire’ the tree. ? I anticipate then making one final issue of the whole tree, attending to errata and matters not concerning individual test results. This will be left as a ‘legacy’ on the /g/R1b-CTS4466-Plus/files site whereas a very much abbreviated, McCarthy-specific, version will be maintained on the McCarthy Wordpress site. ? My Irish Type II tree identifies ? (a)??? SNPs shared by two or more of you (as previous issues have shown). (b)??? FTDNA PANEL 6 STR MUTATIONS, determined from data extracted from either your Big Y(-500) test or your Big Y-700 test (if you have taken or upgraded to this), or in some cases both (there are occasional differences highlighted by Notes 33 and 34 on the tree). (c)???? FOR THE FIRST AND PROBABLY ONLY TIME, FTDNA PANEL 7 STR MUTATIONS, determined from Big Y-700 testing, if applicable. ? The mutations identified at (b) and (c) supplement the ‘private’ SNPs specific to the kit you manage; the latter are not shown on the tree. These STR mutations may well be significant in your future research. However, the data underlying this analysis has not been made publicly available by FTDNA. It is referred to as ‘guarded data’ and for this reason I will not be showing it on the tree without your authorisation.? Analysis of your P6 and P7 mutations does not appear anywhere else to my knowledge, and owing to the immense amount of time required to generate it I am only able to supply it on the tree, i.e I cannot enter into one to one discussions about it other than to review / correct perceived errors! ? THE MESSAGE YOU NEED TO E-MAIL ME IS EITHER ? My kit no. is XXXXX. I am happy for the publicly displayed Irish Type II / McCarthy RL21 Group A tree to show all relevant information extracted from the Big Y test and/or any other YDNA testing I pursue (whatever the sources of the information) alongside my kit number and most distant known paternal ancestor surname (MDKA). If I have not made my paternal ancestor surname available, my present surname will be shown unless its omission is explicitly requested. ? OR, if appropriate, ? The FTDNA kit I manage is XXXXX. I have explicit agreement with the supplier of the test that the publicly displayed Irish Type II / McCarthy RL21 Group A tree may show all relevant information extracted from the Big Y test and/or any other YDNA testing pursued (whatever the sources of the information) alongside his kit number and most distant known paternal ancestor surname (MDKA). If he has not made his paternal ancestor surname available, his present surname will be shown unless its omission is explicitly requested. I acknowledge that ‘explict agreement’ may be verbal for an immediate family member (wife, daughter, son, brother or sister) or where a kit manager manages the kit supplied by a deceased direct paternal ancestor or brother; in all other cases written permission must be held by the kit manager. ? This also applies to anyone else who can’t find their kit number included in the current version of Nigel’s tree, available as he describes in his message.? I urge all of you with Big Y results and/or 111 marker STRs tested to check to make sure you are included.? This tree is an important part of our research, and it would be a shame that it’s final version, expected in the near future, would not contain each person’s kit #/ancestral surname included. ? If anyone has questions, please post them here.? For those of you who wish to send an authorisation response, please respond privately, rather than on-list, to ndmccarthy10@.... ? Thank you.? Elizabeth ? ? From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of Judith Hoffman nee Sullivan aka Judith Ní Shúilleabháin ? Hi Elizabeth, |