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Potential early origins- the Gangani
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Hey cousins!
An idea I wanted to bounce off of you: the Gangani (which may be the same as the Concani) as an early tribal group of which a CTS4466+ man may have been part. has a map showing the Gangani in North Munster and mentions that this group also had settlement in N. Wales. CTS4466 has an early branch in Wales (or perhaps origin) and the timing of 200 AD is not too far off (perhaps within a few centuries) from the A212, A541, and A663 split. The Eoganacht seem to have an earlier origin in North Munster and then spread south and west, so an origin in N. Munster is roughly compatible with historically known migrations. Has a regional pattern been ascertained for the Welsh CTS4466+? Additionally, there was a Concani group in Northern Spain. While I don't think that CTS4466 has a Spanish origin, this may have influenced early scribes (bards?) to posit that it was the same tribe or had a common origin with the Spanish group, possibly influencing Milesian legends. |
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Hello, Mike.
I should point out that there are not many folks on this new forum yet, so you might get more feedback on the Yahoo forum.? We have no regional Welsh area determined yet for possible origins for CTS4466.? Where do you find reference about the Irish/Welsh Gangani being the same as Concani (do you perhaps mean the Cantabri of northern Spain)? What sources are you using to suggest the Eoganacht originated in north Munster?? Your own A212 subclade never really made it down to Munster at all. Thanks.? Elizabeth |
¿ªÔÆÌåÓýHello, Mike. ? We have no regional Welsh area determined yet for possible origins for CTS4466.? Where do you find reference about the Irish/Welsh Gangani being the same as Concani (do you perhaps mean the Cantabri of northern Spain)? ? ? From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of Michael Adams ? Hey cousins! |
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Hi Elizabeth!
Regarding the Concani in Spain- Wikipedia lists them as being one of the constituent tribes of the Cantabri (). I don't think they are the same Concani, but perhaps the name promoted the concept of some Irish as having a Spanish origin. For the Concani/Gangani as being perhaps the same group, I just have commentary on the Annals here on page 393: I imagine their evidence would be similar sounding names. For the Eoganachta having a North Munster origin, I am referencing the map here: and the later ones which indicate a movement S and W. All of those sources could be incorrect, of course. Mike |
¿ªÔÆÌåÓýHello, Mike. ? Thanks for the references.? I must admit I haven¡¯t read a lot of the Four Masters, focusing more on annals specific to Munster.? I will have to take some time and look through more thoroughly what you have sent. ? The map you reference shows the E¨®ganacht at Cashel.? I think of Thomond as north Munster.? The various E¨®ganacht tribes were spread throughout south Munster, mainly Desmond ¨C see .? The Rock of Cashel, associated with the E¨®ganacht particularly at the end of the first millennium, was not the earliest territories, according to many annals.? Various sources, as you suggest, show different details of origins.? ? While a significant branch of CTS4466, S1121, contains all of the main E¨®ganacht surnames, it also contains even more surnames from older Munster tribes.? The Results page discusses possible Origins. ? There is still a lot to discover. ? Elizabeth ? From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of Michael Adams ? Hi Elizabeth! |