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Has anyone done Mods to their Tuna Helper to alter it from charging a SLA battery to become a Voltage regulator (Out to the Tunas) for +12.6 -13.0 volts when the Can is powered by a LIFEPO4 lithium battery? I do not need to charge the LIFEPO4, I already have that function covered.
My picnic table power supply is a Group 24 size battery box from Gigaparts, you can't put a full size group 24 battery in it and that would be too heavy to carry around, plus I am a QRPp guy. Instead of buying a $279 Bioenno battery (yeah they are really cool), I bought a couple 6 AH LIFEPO4 lithium batteries on AMAZON for $29 each that I put in parallel into my Explorer box. The box has ample Anderson Power Pole connectors for output and even a solar controller input, USB A & C outputs with a token voltmeter to tell me when I am out of amp-hours.
This is a great setup for powering my 12 volt DC soldering iron, it will handle soldering 2-3 tuna can projects and still have power to spare. The problem though is the battery resting voltage is 13.3-13.6 volts (maybe okay for most QRP rigs, not my KD1JV rigs that like under 12.0 volts), but when I plug in my 100-watt solar panels I am pushing 14.4-14.6 volts in the battery absorption phase. I could easily smoke a Super Tuna+ Q3 final at that range and it only takes one time to forget to turn down the power output to release the magic soul of a transistor.
My goal is to build or MOD a 12.6 volts voltage regulator circuit that will handle my entire ST+ station including any future Tuna Topper Amp, etc. Since my Tuner Power kit is currently in transit to me, I figured now was time to do some Imagineering. Albert, as explained below, might not agree with me, LOL! Backstory:
I used to work as an electronic technician with a German Engineer in my formar aerospace career who used to pronounce everything with his German accent so my warped sense of humor tends to reflect those experiences. Albert would commonly tell me that the test stand setup wasn't working because "I was the one working on it." At least I knew where I stood, LOL.
My QRP experiences started in 1980 when I needed to build quarterly lab projects at my community college of which I would breadboard little 40m QRP transmitters I saw in CQ magazine only to discover something vital was left off the schematic, in those days we didn't have google, but Professor Ruby did have a giant book of circuits that we would attempt to plug and play which was a lot of fun. I destroyed a lot of 2n2222a transistors in parallel because it was very hard to precisely match bias resistors and the concept of marched impedances between plug-in circuit stages was on a vague fleeting concept at the time. I remember having permanent 2n2222a tattoos on my thumb and index fingers while checking the temperatures of the transistor bodies while talking with the Elmer down the road. The transistor with all of the bias current would go first and so on, but it was fun chatting across the county with only a few milliwatts and my and Hammarlund HQ-145A receiver (miss that one dearly).
Okay, that being said, as Rip Van Winkle wakes up from his 20 year lapse of fun in Ham Radio I noticed a lot of YT videos out there of folks experimenting with with some of the $12 chinese clone junk transceivers out there and it was fun (for a couple minutes) watching them blow their transistor finals with high VSWR (maybe only 2.5:1, etc) AND too high of a supply voltage.
Now I got to thinking duh, the answer is obvious, but a lot of the low current voltage regulators are also RF noise havens. The ST+ II states 2 watts output potential at 12.6 volts. At 14.6 volts VCC that might be more of a smoke test. On the solder bench it is easy to turn down the supply voltage, but out at the picnic table it requires more thought. I feel inspired to breadboard something and if the Tuna Power does not want a big MOD, then I have a 2"H x 2 5/8" Lindsay sliced salad olive can that wants a project, LOL.
Dave - KU9L
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It looks like the UC2906N is meant for charging SLA batteries, not regulating, obviously. My inclination would be to leave that circuit alone and not even install those supporting components for my own situation, etc for the USB regulation circuit, if desired.?
My task them would be to tame the incoming voltage coming to the battery input of the Tuna Power Can coming from my Explorer box just so 1 - 2 volt changes influenced by loads or solar charging do not cause weird things to happen to the ST+ II TX like instantaneous frequency shifts or other P/S influences.?
Ordinarily there needs to be a few volt difference between the input and output requirements for voltage regulation to be stable and pure, but the voltages in my Explorer box will vary worst case 13 volts (battery under load no solar charging) to 14.6 volts (solar charging is heavy) and for brief periods the voltage can be a little higher as solar MPPT charges can take a few seconds to adjust to changing solar radiation conditions.?
I am not aware of an individual circuit that will pass through several amps for a complete full gallon Tuna station and then break into regulation if voltages go above 13.XX volts (full safe Tuna levels or other QRP, etc.). I will do some more research after I get back working on my 90 year old father-in-laws RV roof awnings, at least until I can't handle my torn ACL on the ladder anymore, LOL. My Lindsay Olive can awaits an adventure, breadboard not included since that stuff is in Chicago in storage, LOL.
Cheers es 72,
Dave - KU9L
On Tuesday, January 24, 2023 at 10:03:23 AM EST, David Knapp via groups.io <renewables@...> wrote:
Has anyone done Mods to their Tuna Helper to alter it from charging a SLA battery to become a Voltage regulator (Out to the Tunas) for +12.6 -13.0 volts when the Can is powered by a LIFEPO4 lithium battery? I do not need to charge the LIFEPO4, I already have that function covered.
My picnic table power supply is a Group 24 size battery box from Gigaparts, you can't put a full size group 24 battery in it and that would be too heavy to carry around, plus I am a QRPp guy. Instead of buying a $279 Bioenno battery (yeah they are really cool), I bought a couple 6 AH LIFEPO4 lithium batteries on AMAZON for $29 each that I put in parallel into my Explorer box. The box has ample Anderson Power Pole connectors for output and even a solar controller input, USB A & C outputs with a token voltmeter to tell me when I am out of amp-hours.
This is a great setup for powering my 12 volt DC soldering iron, it will handle soldering 2-3 tuna can projects and still have power to spare. The problem though is the battery resting voltage is 13.3-13.6 volts (maybe okay for most QRP rigs, not my KD1JV rigs that like under 12.0 volts), but when I plug in my 100-watt solar panels I am pushing 14.4-14.6 volts in the battery absorption phase. I could easily smoke a Super Tuna+ Q3 final at that range and it only takes one time to forget to turn down the power output to release the magic soul of a transistor.
My goal is to build or MOD a 12.6 volts voltage regulator circuit that will handle my entire ST+ station including any future Tuna Topper Amp, etc. Since my Tuner Power kit is currently in transit to me, I figured now was time to do some Imagineering. Albert, as explained below, might not agree with me, LOL! Backstory:
I used to work as an electronic technician with a German Engineer in my formar aerospace career who used to pronounce everything with his German accent so my warped sense of humor tends to reflect those experiences. Albert would commonly tell me that the test stand setup wasn't working because "I was the one working on it." At least I knew where I stood, LOL.
My QRP experiences started in 1980 when I needed to build quarterly lab projects at my community college of which I would breadboard little 40m QRP transmitters I saw in CQ magazine only to discover something vital was left off the schematic, in those days we didn't have google, but Professor Ruby did have a giant book of circuits that we would attempt to plug and play which was a lot of fun. I destroyed a lot of 2n2222a transistors in parallel because it was very hard to precisely match bias resistors and the concept of marched impedances between plug-in circuit stages was on a vague fleeting concept at the time. I remember having permanent 2n2222a tattoos on my thumb and index fingers while checking the temperatures of the transistor bodies while talking with the Elmer down the road. The transistor with all of the bias current would go first and so on, but it was fun chatting across the county with only a few milliwatts and my and Hammarlund HQ-145A receiver (miss that one dearly).
Okay, that being said, as Rip Van Winkle wakes up from his 20 year lapse of fun in Ham Radio I noticed a lot of YT videos out there of folks experimenting with with some of the $12 chinese clone junk transceivers out there and it was fun (for a couple minutes) watching them blow their transistor finals with high VSWR (maybe only 2.5:1, etc) AND too high of a supply voltage.
Now I got to thinking duh, the answer is obvious, but a lot of the low current voltage regulators are also RF noise havens. The ST+ II states 2 watts output potential at 12.6 volts. At 14.6 volts VCC that might be more of a smoke test. On the solder bench it is easy to turn down the supply voltage, but out at the picnic table it requires more thought. I feel inspired to breadboard something and if the Tuna Power does not want a big MOD, then I have a 2"H x 2 5/8" Lindsay sliced salad olive can that wants a project, LOL.
Dave - KU9L
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I bought a buck converter type supply commonly used on golf carts. 8-40 volts in and 12 volts out up to 6 amps continuous.? It will fit inside my explorer battery box and have an output just for Tuna Can Projects.
Dave - KU9L
On Tuesday, January 24, 2023 at 11:09:57 AM EST, David Knapp via groups.io <renewables@...> wrote:
It looks like the UC2906N is meant for charging SLA batteries, not regulating, obviously. My inclination would be to leave that circuit alone and not even install those supporting components for my own situation, etc for the USB regulation circuit, if desired.?
My task them would be to tame the incoming voltage coming to the battery input of the Tuna Power Can coming from my Explorer box just so 1 - 2 volt changes influenced by loads or solar charging do not cause weird things to happen to the ST+ II TX like instantaneous frequency shifts or other P/S influences.?
Ordinarily there needs to be a few volt difference between the input and output requirements for voltage regulation to be stable and pure, but the voltages in my Explorer box will vary worst case 13 volts (battery under load no solar charging) to 14.6 volts (solar charging is heavy) and for brief periods the voltage can be a little higher as solar MPPT charges can take a few seconds to adjust to changing solar radiation conditions.?
I am not aware of an individual circuit that will pass through several amps for a complete full gallon Tuna station and then break into regulation if voltages go above 13.XX volts (full safe Tuna levels or other QRP, etc.). I will do some more research after I get back working on my 90 year old father-in-laws RV roof awnings, at least until I can't handle my torn ACL on the ladder anymore, LOL. My Lindsay Olive can awaits an adventure, breadboard not included since that stuff is in Chicago in storage, LOL.
Cheers es 72,
Dave - KU9L
On Tuesday, January 24, 2023 at 10:03:23 AM EST, David Knapp via groups.io <renewables@...> wrote:
Has anyone done Mods to their Tuna Helper to alter it from charging a SLA battery to become a Voltage regulator (Out to the Tunas) for +12.6 -13.0 volts when the Can is powered by a LIFEPO4 lithium battery? I do not need to charge the LIFEPO4, I already have that function covered.
My picnic table power supply is a Group 24 size battery box from Gigaparts, you can't put a full size group 24 battery in it and that would be too heavy to carry around, plus I am a QRPp guy. Instead of buying a $279 Bioenno battery (yeah they are really cool), I bought a couple 6 AH LIFEPO4 lithium batteries on AMAZON for $29 each that I put in parallel into my Explorer box. The box has ample Anderson Power Pole connectors for output and even a solar controller input, USB A & C outputs with a token voltmeter to tell me when I am out of amp-hours.
This is a great setup for powering my 12 volt DC soldering iron, it will handle soldering 2-3 tuna can projects and still have power to spare. The problem though is the battery resting voltage is 13.3-13.6 volts (maybe okay for most QRP rigs, not my KD1JV rigs that like under 12.0 volts), but when I plug in my 100-watt solar panels I am pushing 14.4-14.6 volts in the battery absorption phase. I could easily smoke a Super Tuna+ Q3 final at that range and it only takes one time to forget to turn down the power output to release the magic soul of a transistor.
My goal is to build or MOD a 12.6 volts voltage regulator circuit that will handle my entire ST+ station including any future Tuna Topper Amp, etc. Since my Tuner Power kit is currently in transit to me, I figured now was time to do some Imagineering. Albert, as explained below, might not agree with me, LOL! Backstory:
I used to work as an electronic technician with a German Engineer in my formar aerospace career who used to pronounce everything with his German accent so my warped sense of humor tends to reflect those experiences. Albert would commonly tell me that the test stand setup wasn't working because "I was the one working on it." At least I knew where I stood, LOL.
My QRP experiences started in 1980 when I needed to build quarterly lab projects at my community college of which I would breadboard little 40m QRP transmitters I saw in CQ magazine only to discover something vital was left off the schematic, in those days we didn't have google, but Professor Ruby did have a giant book of circuits that we would attempt to plug and play which was a lot of fun. I destroyed a lot of 2n2222a transistors in parallel because it was very hard to precisely match bias resistors and the concept of marched impedances between plug-in circuit stages was on a vague fleeting concept at the time. I remember having permanent 2n2222a tattoos on my thumb and index fingers while checking the temperatures of the transistor bodies while talking with the Elmer down the road. The transistor with all of the bias current would go first and so on, but it was fun chatting across the county with only a few milliwatts and my and Hammarlund HQ-145A receiver (miss that one dearly).
Okay, that being said, as Rip Van Winkle wakes up from his 20 year lapse of fun in Ham Radio I noticed a lot of YT videos out there of folks experimenting with with some of the $12 chinese clone junk transceivers out there and it was fun (for a couple minutes) watching them blow their transistor finals with high VSWR (maybe only 2.5:1, etc) AND too high of a supply voltage.
Now I got to thinking duh, the answer is obvious, but a lot of the low current voltage regulators are also RF noise havens. The ST+ II states 2 watts output potential at 12.6 volts. At 14.6 volts VCC that might be more of a smoke test. On the solder bench it is easy to turn down the supply voltage, but out at the picnic table it requires more thought. I feel inspired to breadboard something and if the Tuna Power does not want a big MOD, then I have a 2"H x 2 5/8" Lindsay sliced salad olive can that wants a project, LOL.
Dave - KU9L
|
Dave,
?
After reading the long dialog I¡¯m not sure what you are wanting to do?
?
Yes the UC2906/3906 circuits are for charging/maintaining.? I used one of the TPS/PTO circuit boards to maintain a lawn mower battery for a couple of years.
?
I recently modified a PTO for 24Volts using a 36V switcher as a power source. That worked good for charging 2, 12V SLAs in series.? I¡¯ve also modified PTO circuits for different charging maintaining levels.
?
I wrote programs in different versions of BASIC to do the calculations.? I¡¯ll share those...8^)
?
For straight charging, I found a module that lets you set the limits so you can bulk-charge and not exceed the voltages.
?
I¡¯ve also used buck/boost modules for down converting from 20V batteries to 12V and up converting from 24V to 48V 500W.? That for cutting out 2 SLA heavy batteries like those used in golf carts.? I wanted to reduce weight to make the electric
last longer.
?
For my Li-Ion and Li-Fe PO batteries, I bought commercial chargers designed for those chemistries. One for my small batteries and another for a 100AHr battery that I use to back-up my Jackey.
-- Chuck, W5USJ
|
Dave,
?
I missed this in your message:
?
Has anyone done Mods to their
Tuna Helper to alter it from charging a SLA battery to become a Voltage regulator
?
Tuna Helper is a T/R switch so I think you had another kit in mind...8^)
?
I don¡¯t have any concept of the max current that would be needed by a complete tuna can configuration. Maybe 2 Amps would be enough.
?
My low-power bench power supply uses an LM317T with adjustable voltage.? ?Current is spec¡¯d at 1.5A. The LM 317 is the commercial temperature version.
?
Application notes show circuits with an additional pass transistor for much higher currents.?
-- Chuck, W5USJ
|
Chuck,
I would have saved a lot of money buying a Jackery in the first place, but have certainly learned a lot about Anderson Power Poles and now have something fun to play with, LOL.?
I do my soldering at a picnic table because the RV space is limited inside, but I say that operating from the picnic table inside a busy snowbird campground is impossible with all of the hash from TVs, RV Converters, MPPT solar chargers, and tons of Android phones running around, Golf Cart RFI is a PIA, etc.?
Out in the fresh air of a Wildlife Management unit for a POTA activation there is GENERALLY less QRN, MORE bugs (GIANT Banana Spiders webs of steel threads in central FL), and less opportunities for someone to come by our site when I am operating to tell me that since I have so much extra time in my life that I can come work on their RV for free. LOL. Instead of putting together my ST+ II today I am putting up soffits on the aluminum hard awnings I just installed over my 90 year old father-in-laws slide-out roofs. He wanted to ask when are we retiring so we can come take care of him and the answer I gave him was when I get the award for Worked at POTA sites, LOL. He sees my radios as a useless distraction to getting his roof done, LOL.
Thanks for all of your insights on everything, I know Rex is taxing your brain on those 10M figures for the WWVR receiver band module. I don't expect stellar receiver sensitivity up there, but I just might be able to hear someone who might be able to hear my tiny signal, LOL.
Dave - KU9L
On Wednesday, January 25, 2023 at 04:59:41 AM EST, Chuck Carpenter <w5usj@...> wrote:
Dave,
?
After reading the long dialog I¡¯m not sure what you are wanting to do?
?
Yes the UC2906/3906 circuits are for charging/maintaining.? I used one of the TPS/PTO circuit boards to maintain a lawn mower battery for a couple of years.
?
I recently modified a PTO for 24Volts using a 36V switcher as a power source. That worked good for charging 2, 12V SLAs in series.? I¡¯ve also modified PTO circuits for different charging maintaining levels.
?
I wrote programs in different versions of BASIC to do the calculations.? I¡¯ll share those...8^)
?
For straight charging, I found a module that lets you set the limits so you can bulk-charge and not exceed the voltages.
?
I¡¯ve also used buck/boost modules for down converting from 20V batteries to 12V and up converting from 24V to 48V 500W.? That for cutting out 2 SLA heavy batteries like those used in golf carts.? I wanted to reduce weight to make the electric
last longer.
?
For my Li-Ion and Li-Fe PO batteries, I bought commercial chargers designed for those chemistries. One for my small batteries and another for a 100AHr battery that I use to back-up my Jackey.
--
Chuck, W5USJ
|
Sorry Chuck, I keep intentionally interchanging Tuna Power with Tuna Helper and that is just a brain fart I will get over once I build both of them out. I have the Tuna Helper done so that is fresh on my mind. I haven't checked it yet since I properly resoldered the Pn2222a transistor, I need to do that yet.
Dave
On Wednesday, January 25, 2023 at 06:56:35 AM EST, Chuck Carpenter <w5usj@...> wrote:
Dave,
?
I missed this in your message:
?
Has anyone done Mods to their
Tuna Helper to alter it from charging a SLA battery to become a Voltage regulator
?
Tuna Helper is a T/R switch so I think you had another kit in mind...8^)
?
I don¡¯t have any concept of the max current that would be needed by a complete tuna can configuration. Maybe 2 Amps would be enough.
?
My low-power bench power supply uses an LM317T with adjustable voltage.? ?Current is spec¡¯d at 1.5A. The LM 317 is the commercial temperature version.
?
Application notes show circuits with an additional pass transistor for much higher currents.?
--
Chuck, W5USJ
|
David Knapp