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Off topic, but just thought this might be interesting to some.?
Top programming languages of 2024:
Python is number 1. Typescript and Rust are among the rising stars.
Rust is a compiled, general-purpose programming language that focuses on safety, performance, and concurrency.??It's often considered a modern version of C and C++, with similar syntax and safety-first principles.?Rust is known for its ability to combine low-level hardware control with high-level abstractions, allowing developers to write reliable and efficient software.
-Steve K1RF
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I’m looking forward to BASIC on my QMXs :)
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My last effort using VB 6.0 - a couple of decades ago - was uCHAM USB SPI DDS for use with a Small Wonder Labs DSW-II-20 CW transceiver which enabled me so stream operating frequencies down to one Hz to the rig. Simple but fun. Maybe my interest might be re-kindled using my new QMX+, getting low on the backorder list.
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72,
Bill, N4QA/QRP
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If I were programming something with 16gb of ram and a 1tb disk many of those are choices.
That means any programming is the dependent on a PC and three platforms (amd/intel,
Apple M1, ARM-Rpi) in at least three OS flavors maybe more.
?
The micro in the QMX has none of the above.? So a compact interpreted language is still a
consideration as I've wedged it into very minimal cpus with even less resources.? ?That
also means if externally compiled it must be a light memory load for the result.
?
?
--
Allison
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Post online only,?
direct email will go to a bit bucket.
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I'll add that, programming in Rust is not for the
faint-hearted! It's more than C/C++ with guard rails added!
--
Paul -- AI7JR
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My preferred language for microcontrollers is Tinygo, a subset of Golang for embedded systems. I think it’s easier to learn and understand than C++ which to me has always been a bit of a dogs breakfast syntactically, especially when compared with the simplicity of C.?
I’m forcing myself to write some projects in ?MicroPython and CircuitPython for the Raspberry Pi Pico. But I can’t say I’m enjoying it.?
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Python is indeed the current darling of software developers. While it has many advantages, it runs under an interpreter which hurts performance, especially with very complex applications.
Personally, I tend to avoid languages that require spaces and/or tabs for proper operation. It seems like we’re going backwards in time to the Unix epoch with programs like make. Also, interpreted languages are suboptimal for embedded systems requiring precise, repeatable timing for handling real-time events. I still prefer C for these systems due to its highly-optimized compiler technology (clang) and simplicity of coding. I find C++ difficult to wrap my hardware-engineering head around.?
Tony AC9QY
On Tue, Aug 27, 2024 at 1:03?PM Paul - AI7JR via <paul.hanchett= [email protected]> wrote:
I'll add that, programming in Rust is not for the
faint-hearted! It's more than C/C++ with guard rails added!
--
Paul -- AI7JR
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I’ll go with S/360 Assembly Language! ? BC 15, * ?(just going around in circles)
Jim Bennett / K7TXA
Eagle, ID
SKCC #10447T
B.U.G. #301
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On Aug 28, 2024, at 8:45?AM, Dan Quigg via groups.io <twowindsbear@...> wrote:
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Jim / K7TXA
Eagle, ID
SKCC 10447T
BUG 301
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Wasn't aware, but as a Go dev, and sometimes microcontroller tinkerer, this is interesting.
Thanks
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I've always been a C fan. TinyGo is interesting, and I've played with MicroPython just because it is always mentioned. Only thing i see missing is Forth. Now that was a language you had to screw your head on sideways!
?
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Many of the languages mentioned do not fit on an Atmega328.
most will not fit on many of the SOCs with limited ram and FLASH.
When you consider that even the smallest Rpi is far bigger
machine than ST32MF4xx series, language size matters.?
?
C fits on small machines better.? However for operations that have
to be fast or compact to fit memory constraints there is native
assembler.? Writing a RTOS in assembler is a skill that higher
languages make easier. But if RTOS is not used or simple
the application can run in a tight structure, its added bulk.
?
So far the only one mentioned that fits in tiny machines is forth
(runs on most 8 bitters).? It also the most obtuse for a person
to understand if they didn't write the code.? LUA is also a bit
strange and interpreted so if speed is critical not a match.
LIsp with its symbols is certainly a candidate for this list.
?
So the ones missing are ADA, Lisp, Chip-8, VTL, Minol, WIDU,
Pilot, PLM, Dibol, FOCAL, Draco, and I'm absolutely certain I've
missed a few.
?
As someone that started with 8008 assembler and later procesors
when I see a new language it looks like heirs of C, Pascal or Fortran.
Most new languages are just far too large.
?
This is written by a former member of STAB.?
Society To Abolish BASIC, down with GOTO.
?
--
Allison
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Post online only,?
direct email will go to a bit bucket.
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I was, at one semester, asked to continue in Fortran or taking Cobol and Forth.? I picked Fortran as it was excellent with complex math, although a bear to print pretty, readable output with.? Cobol made it big, but I decided to be an engineer and not a marketer, and I am now unable to recall the strengths of Forth.
Mark K9TR
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Allison,?
LOL - Down with GOTO - Hear hear!!!?
Long live C or native Assembler on embedded micros…
?
Steve W6WU
?
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I’m laughing at STAB and down with GOTO. We used BASIC only for ATE setups and all radio code was implemented in native assembler due to early C compilers not only being inefficient, but actually creating bad machine code. I designed complete two-way radios and even a base station, all in HC11 assembler. It was amazing what I could fit into 16K of on-chip flash and I found it challenging to optimize every assembler function to free up a few bytes, save 2-4 clock cycles in interrupt routines, and minimize stack usage. As for GOTO, we were chastised in design reviews for any use of GOTO and couldn’t pass the review until it was completely eliminated. At the time, I thought the software people were just being structured-code snobs lol.
Those were fun times!
On Wed, Aug 28, 2024 at 11:13?AM ajparent1/kb1gmx via <kb1gmx= [email protected]> wrote: Many of the languages mentioned do not fit on an Atmega328.
most will not fit on many of the SOCs with limited ram and FLASH.
When you consider that even the smallest Rpi is far bigger
machine than ST32MF4xx series, language size matters.?
?
C fits on small machines better.? However for operations that have
to be fast or compact to fit memory constraints there is native
assembler.? Writing a RTOS in assembler is a skill that higher
languages make easier. But if RTOS is not used or simple
the application can run in a tight structure, its added bulk.
?
So far the only one mentioned that fits in tiny machines is forth
(runs on most 8 bitters).? It also the most obtuse for a person
to understand if they didn't write the code.? LUA is also a bit
strange and interpreted so if speed is critical not a match.
LIsp with its symbols is certainly a candidate for this list.
?
So the ones missing are ADA, Lisp, Chip-8, VTL, Minol, WIDU,
Pilot, PLM, Dibol, FOCAL, Draco, and I'm absolutely certain I've
missed a few.
?
As someone that started with 8008 assembler and later procesors
when I see a new language it looks like heirs of C, Pascal or Fortran.
Most new languages are just far too large.
?
This is written by a former member of STAB.?
Society To Abolish BASIC, down with GOTO.
?
--
Allison
------------------
Post online only,?
direct email will go to a bit bucket.
|
FORTH was an amazingly capable language, but it's probably best
described as a write-only language... ;-)
On 8/28/24 08:30, Frank W1FRA via
groups.io wrote:
I've always been a C fan. TinyGo is interesting, and I've
played with MicroPython just because it is always mentioned.
Only thing i see missing is Forth. Now that was a language you
had to screw your head on sideways!
?
--
Paul -- AI7JR
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FORTH: Building new "words", based on currently defined words.
Working with FORTH from the console was like working on the bare
metal, in real time! Wrote programs (commands) by extending the
machine's vocabulary, interactively!
On 8/28/24 10:01, Mark K9TR via
groups.io wrote:
I was, at one semester, asked to continue in Fortran or
taking Cobol and Forth.? I picked Fortran as it was excellent
with complex math, although a bear to print pretty, readable
output with.? Cobol made it big, but I decided to be an engineer
and not a marketer, and I am now unable to recall the strengths
of Forth.
Mark K9TR
--
Paul -- AI7JR
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(I expect sometime soon to get a warning that we're badly
off-topic for this forum!)
Enjoyed the conversation, though!
Paul -- AI7JR
On 8/28/24 10:30, Paul - AI7JR via
groups.io wrote:
FORTH was an amazingly capable language, but it's probably best
described as a write-only language... ;-)
On 8/28/24 08:30, Frank W1FRA via
groups.io wrote:
I've always been a C fan. TinyGo is interesting, and I've
played with MicroPython just because it is always mentioned.
Only thing i see missing is Forth. Now that was a language you
had to screw your head on sideways!
?
--
Paul -- AI7JR
--
Paul -- AI7JR
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How about IPS (effectively a multitasking version of Forth) devised by DJ4ZC of Marburg University? It would run on a variety of 8 bit and 16 bit platforms and was used extensively in early amateur satellite work (OSCAR 9 and 11) for both ground and satellite systems.
I also came across Forth on a HP 1000 with an MXE processor, using spare opodes. The person who pointed this out to me wanted to do the same thing on our VAX 11/780 but was dissuaded because it was our production system.
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Show quoted text
On 28 Aug 2024, at 19:38, Paul - AI7JR via groups.io <paul.hanchett@...> wrote:
(I expect sometime soon to get a warning that we're badly
off-topic for this forum!) Enjoyed the conversation, though! Paul -- AI7JR
On 8/28/24 10:30, Paul - AI7JR via
groups.io wrote:
FORTH was an amazingly capable language, but it's probably best
described as a write-only language... ;-)
On 8/28/24 08:30, Frank W1FRA via
groups.io wrote:
I've always been a C fan. TinyGo is interesting, and I've
played with MicroPython just because it is always mentioned.
Only thing i see missing is Forth. Now that was a language you
had to screw your head on sideways!
?
--
Paul -- AI7JR
--
Paul -- AI7JR
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i used to program lots in various Assembly languages. Got to scratching my head around GOTO. For me it was natural if you equate GOTO with JMP and its various forms :) 73, kevin kc6pob (Yes, i understand that it is possible to write with a modern HLL in which GOTO should never appear. With the older languages, there was not an elegant way of doing so with the syntax of the day).
On Wed, Aug 28, 2024 at 12:32?PM John Rabson via <john.rabson07= [email protected]> wrote: How about IPS (effectively a multitasking version of Forth) devised by DJ4ZC of Marburg University? It would run on a variety of 8 bit and 16 bit platforms and was used extensively in early amateur satellite work (OSCAR 9 and 11) for both ground and satellite systems.
I also came across Forth on a HP 1000 with an MXE processor, using spare opodes. The person who pointed this out to me wanted to do the same thing on our VAX 11/780 but was dissuaded because it was our production system.
John G3PAI F5VLF
(I expect sometime soon to get a warning that we're badly
off-topic for this forum!) Enjoyed the conversation, though! Paul -- AI7JR
On 8/28/24 10:30, Paul - AI7JR via
wrote:
FORTH was an amazingly capable language, but it's probably best
described as a write-only language... ;-)
On 8/28/24 08:30, Frank W1FRA via
wrote:
I've always been a C fan. TinyGo is interesting, and I've
played with MicroPython just because it is always mentioned.
Only thing i see missing is Forth. Now that was a language you
had to screw your head on sideways!
?
--
Paul -- AI7JR
--
Paul -- AI7JR
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Bill, N4QA/QRP
Paul - AI7JR
Mark K9TR