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I bought a 2chan 50mhz Rigol DS1052E for $400 some 15 years ago when these cheap 1ghz sampling rate scopes first showed up, loaded it with the DS1102E 100mhz bw firmware.? Weird that after 15 years they have not gone beyond 1ghz, and amazing that this same model is still sold on Amazon for about the same price.? Might be time for me to upgrade so your mention of Fnirsi and Hantek was of interest.

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My impression after a quick meta review of reviews, quality of the cheap scopes in descending order is:? Siglent, Rigol, Hantek, Fnirsi

Most any 2chan scope with at least 10mhz of bandwidth would be good enough for seeing if inputs to the PCM1804 are ok.

One channel and a separate trigger would be good enough, but unfortunately few single channel cheapie scopes have a separate trigger.

The separate trigger (or two channels) is needed? to verify that there is a 90deg phase shift between the two sine waves.

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Here's a tale of woe about buying direct from Hantek on Aliexpress, might be worth a few bucks to go through Amazon:

I have successfully bought several thousand dollars worth of LiFePO4 cells direct from China for our off-grid power, but only after carefully evaluating the vendor and knowing that it was a roll the dice.

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Protocol analysis on cheap scopes can be buggy, and you are stuck with whatever firmware they provide.? If you want stuff like UART/SPI/I2C protocol analysis, could use an 8bit logic analyzer instead for as little as $10: ?

The Saleae stuff is more spendy than the clones but is more likely to "just work", and the Saleae firmware is solid.

At the low end they are all using an STM32F103 processor or similar, the Sigrok open source firmware should work on most of it but check the Sigrok docs before buying your device.? If you really want cheap, a "blue pill" can be made to work: ?? For a cheap high end logic analyzer, this seems popular though Saleae has better: ?

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The only product mentioned above that I have any experience with is my old Rigol DS1052E, so don't assume I know what I'm talking about.

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Most any digital scope can fool you with aliasing, where a high frequency signal inspected at a low sampling rate looks like a low frequency signal.? Something you just have to learn to live with if transitioning from an old school analog scope with a CRT.? A humongous sample depth can be handy when debugging digital logic, but when looking at stuff on a QMX you'll probably never need more than what's near the trigger.

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Jerry, KE7ER

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On Tue, Nov 26, 2024 at 01:45 AM, Chris wrote this in the thread "Diagnostics fail with no BS170s installed #qmx"

I've pressed the button on a Hantek DSO2D10 from Amazon for just over ?200.? There were several half hearted reviews of the 1014D scopes, it seemed to run into sampling artificacts earlier than others and I was wondering about the 1Gs claim as well.? The 2D10 seems a bit better, and I liked the signal generator, up to 25 MHz.? As for the protocol analyser it's going to be better than what I have at the moment which is nothing.

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I decided not to go the USB scope using a laptop, and the touch screen only routes, a knob and button UI feels better to me.

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I'm uneasy about the potential for returning things bought from China, at least with Amazon it's coming from the UK.? Arriving tomorrow!

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I'll let you know how I get on.

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I've got a Cossor double beam Oscillograph from the 50s.? It used to work but I suspect that the caps are getting tired and leaky and haven't dared turn it on for years.? I think it's got a bandwidth of about 200 kHz.? It excels in mass, about 60 kg, still it has a convenient carrying handle.

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Chris, G5CTH

On Tue, Nov 26, 2024 at 11:01 AM, Jerry Gaffke wrote:

Here's a tale of woe about buying direct from Hantek on Aliexpress

I, too, had a long and arduous process with the "official" Hantek Aliexpress store.? I was sent the incorrect item (correct number ticked on box, wrong 'scope inside) and went through their arduous and full-of-suspicion-of-foreigners return process.?

Fortunately, after months of back-and-forth AFTER having received the item back they finally shipped the right item.?

I was out "only" $90 additional for shipping back the wrong one,

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which they promised to refund and never did.??

Zero help from Aliexpress throughout.

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So I will never deal with Hantek again and only buy items of nominal value that I don't mind being swindled out of, from Aliexpress.

73, Don N2VGU

Never touched Hantek.? Used and own Rigol (own dsa815t) used at work their

DSO 350mhz 4channel 2ghz sample rate.? I have no issues with Rigol, they

work as expected.?

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My own Scope collection at home:

B&K 2120 you basic 20mhz analog, mine is getting over 40 years old and still performs well.

at the time I got it it was the best analog display for brightness.? ?I use it frequently.

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Tek R7313? the plugins are only 75mhz (7A18) but its Tek it triggers well.?

The rack height? version is handy.? I use it for fast logic issues mostly.

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Hp150 Storage scope,? lots of old HP analog goodness.? Handy when a bit faster is a must.

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That list is also in GO TO order.? More often that not the 2120 is more than adequate

for?taking a peek at stuff below 5mhz rates.? If I need to look at touchier things the

Tek does sync better.? I rarely drag out the HP as if I need to look at something

that closely its likely better seen on a logic analyzer.

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Over the years I've used a lot of scope and Tek was always prefered.? Now the

Rigol scopes I've used? were well behaved.? The big issue with digital scope

is enough bits (12 seems good enough) and fast enough sample rate.

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--

Allison
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Post online only,?
direct email will go to a bit bucket.

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Mine still has the leather strap handle, though it's pretty much rotted out after some 85 years.

No, I didn't blow the power transformer.

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Jerry, KE7ER

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On Tue, Nov 26, 2024 at 10:01 AM, Chris wrote:

When fnirs apeared all the hype and so much "i have bought it" and "honest review" videos and blog gave me a clue its junk.

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People should relaise that in todays world majority of the "reviewers" buy the device (or get it free from manufacturer) just for the soul purpose of marketing, they have absolutly no idea about the device other then the thing they got in the storytelling script. After the presentation they throw it in the corner.

Goes for any other equipment/consumer electronics.

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Eevblog was and will stay my main source for reviews and teardowns for electronics.

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Rule of the thumb for aliex, buy from official stores, they make mistake but rarely and are willing to cooperate. And you have guarantee that you buy genuine item, and not clone of the chinese clone.

OK, let's not bash FNIRSI too much.?

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I have their DPOX180H 180MHz two channel scope.? It works very well, and for the price, it does a very respectable job.? It hasn't failed me at all in any of the QMX related signal tracing I have done.? I don't expect it to behave like a scope costing 2x or 10x as much.? It would be nice if it went lower than 50mV per division, but most cheap scopes don't.? And while it is very good up to 120MHz or so, it does suffer somewhat in performance at its spec'd 180MHz.?? I do wish it had an A + (inv)B function, so the two channels could be used to see differential signals nicely, but otherwise it has what I need and functions well.

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Stan KC7XE

Yes, value for the money offcourse, but if the difference between quality is just few 100$ then why compromise.?

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PRC manufacturers do have one more interesting tactics, first series of same product have better quality.

Later on they degrade.

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I remember getting that Baofeng uv-5 when it appeared. It even had lpf on output, pieces that i open up this days will not supprise me one day if they have only mic, speaker and dead bug style wired IC.

Hi,
I agree with the comments.
I own a couple of Rigol DS1000Z series oscilloscopes, which are very well made and offer good value with excellent performance, including complex triggering and serial decoding features.
At the other end of the spectrum I have an ?18 Zeweii DSO154pro, which is handy for portable low frequency testing and incorporates a simple signal generator.

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In all cases, there are limitations and quirks.
For example the screenshots below show the same 1MHz square wave signal captured on the Rigol (top) and the Zeeweii.

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The pre-shoot and overshoot seen on the Zeeweii is an effect of the sin(x)/x interpolation which is used by the oscilloscope to construct the displayed waveform.

The waveform displayed on the Zeeweii is not a correct representation of the actual signal in this case.

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If the input signal is band limited in line with the 40MS/s sampling of the Zeeweii, the resultant reconstructed displayed waveform would be closer to reality.

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73, Dave

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With regard to modern low cost scopes, Paul Danzer, N1II recently gave a talk on scopes at our local radio club (gnarc.org) in which he is a member.? He wrote a multiple articles on these scopes in QST magazine (Reviews in Nov. and Dec. 2023 and specifications in August 2024). I asked Paul what was most important to him in selection of a scope.? He said that the architecture of all these scopes is essentially the same, including the basic architecture and even the location of buttons and selected display colors.? Even some other test instruments have the same basic architecture (See his article in October 2024 issue on this topic). The two most important things to him about the digital scopes were:
1. Make sure the scope has a good user manual before you buy it.? Some of the scopes are badly lacking in this area while some are quite good.
2. Beware of dishonest specmanship.?

My impression was that these are more prevalent for the lower cost scopes.

-Steve K1RF

On Tue, Nov 26, 2024 at 10:48 AM, Jerry Gaffke wrote:

Chris wrote:? "I've got a Cossor double beam Oscillograph from the 50s."

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This one: or one that looks like that.

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It was being thrown out at work in the late 1970s.

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And my new scope has arrived, a Hantek DSO2D10.? It even came with a UK mains lead! And two scope probes, one HV X100, one normal X1/X10.

And it works!? It tells me what I suspected.

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The only snag I've found so far is that it doesn't come with a manual, but it's the 21st century, we have the internet now.

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Chris.

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I use a Siglent SDS1104X-E and a Saleae Logic Pro 16, both supplied by my employer (OK, the Saleae was salvaged from the wreckage of a previous and now defunct employer). I highly recommend both. Excellent quality, no serious quirks.

I've also used a Rigol; it was good, but I like the Siglent better.?

Protocol analysis on both the scope and logic analyzer (CANbus, SPI) is decent.?

Some of the analog signal stats on the scope leave something to be desired; a duty cycle measurement readout doesn't match my observation of the waveform. The Saleae gets it right, however.?

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Steve

I use Micsig which is a pretty good chinese brand comparable to Siglent.

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Wow, that Zeweii DSO154pro looks good, a 40 MS/s scope at around $23 US?

They have an ADC and FPGA stuffed in there somehow, much more than the usual STM32F103.

If it doesn't work, it's almost worth $23 to tear it apart to see look inside.

Here's the manual: ?

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It does not have a separate trigger input.

That would be very easy and cheap for them to add,

but nobody does on these low end single channel scopes.

Most unfortunate, means you can't measure differences in phase.

You can't hack it in because trigger detection is almost certainly?

happening in the FPGA firmware on the acquired ADC values.

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Your 2'd photo gives a better indication of max bandwidth than

the final photo using the scopes internal 1mhz LPF.

I could often live with a bit of dirt when looking at a fast signal.

Doing 18 MHz of bw on 40 Ms/s is almost at the Nyquist limit.

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Jerry, KE7ER

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On Wed, Nov 27, 2024 at 02:21 AM, Dave (G8PTN) wrote:

Hi Jerry,

I got the DSO154pro in an AliEx deal earlier this year.

For everyday quick reach for all kinds of measurements I use this 3 in 1 multimeter/scope/signal generator. It’s good quality and accurate.

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I have an Owon HD2202S and so far, it's been great.? It's 200MHz BW and 1GS/s with both channels on at the same time.

Check this review

Check out the rise time analysis with pulse gen at around the 17min mark in the video - 1.36nS == ~ 250 MHz

This guy has reviewed a lot of Chinese products and get to the nitty gritty of most of the key attributes of devices, worth looking at his other reviews.

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Cheers

Phil

VK2KKZ

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On Thu, Nov 28, 2024 at 06:58 AM, Barbaros WB2CBA wrote:

As I said I got a Hantek DSO2D10 from Amazon.? Delivered the next day, cost ?201.? This is a more expensive way to buy things but I'm uneasy about overseas purchases because of the difficulty of returning things.

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It seems to do what I want, give reasonable scope type measurements in the region I'm interested in, the HF radio area, up to 50MHz if I'm lucky.? It's reasonably easy to use and the manual (68 pages) isn't bad.? Good enough that I can get it to do what I want reasonably easily.

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I didn't go for the minimum cost.? From what I see minimum price things are minimum quality.? Initially as the price increases the quality increases rapidly.? Then there's a point where the price increases rapidly but the quality increases slowly.? You get to the point where the high price is part of the attractiveness.? I like to go for the knee where the quality/price ratio is at it's maximum.? I think I'm a bit below that with this but not by a lot.

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Chris