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?
(Right: Gerald Youngblood, Flex Founder)
They launched their new product "Aurora", 160-6m, 500W transceiver that uses polar modulation just like QMX
Hans:
"So they visited me to admire QMX and I visited them to admire Aurora"
?
?
73 DE muhsin TA1MHS
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What I find amusing about all this is that the cost of the Aurora starts at $6,200 while the QMX costs about 2% of that.
?
73!
?
Dan KB6NU
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Of course it depends if you look at it in terms of cost per watt....
But I would suggest cost per dB is a more meaningful correct measure ;-)
Anyway hats off to Flex for being the first big radio manufacturer to implement polar modulation, brave of them and it looks lovely.?
73 Hans G0UPL
On Sun, May 18, 2025, 08:51 Dan Romanchik KB6NU via <cwgeek= [email protected]> wrote: What I find amusing about all this is that the cost of the Aurora starts at $6,200 while the QMX costs about 2% of that.
?
73!
?
Dan KB6NU
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For $6000 US, it had better look lovely!? Thank you, Hans, for bringing this technology to the masses.??
?
Len KJ9E
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What goes around, comes around. Polar modulation was invented by Thomas Edison in 1874. ;)
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I owned a Flex 6400 for years and maybe used it a dozen times. I sold it several months ago, not because it was a bad radio...it's a great radio. The reason is because throwing balls of RF fire into the ether is less enjoyable to me than tossing out little sparks that might still be heard 5000 miles away. To me, that's a lot more fun...
Jack, W8TEE
On Sunday, May 18, 2025 at 08:51:50 AM EDT, Dan Romanchik KB6NU <cwgeek@...> wrote:
What I find amusing about all this is that the cost of the Aurora starts at $6,200 while the QMX costs about 2% of that.
?
73!
?
Dan KB6NU
|
Does anyone know of a paper that discusses the net gains made by Polar Modulation compare to other forms?
Jack, W8TEE
On Sunday, May 18, 2025 at 09:05:33 AM EDT, Chuck AI7SY <chuck@...> wrote:
What goes around, comes around. Polar modulation was invented by Thomas Edison in 1874. ;)
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Nope, but that¡¯s because you haven¡¯t written it yet. ?I expect we¡¯ll see that paper from you right before the T42 release that uses Polar Modulation¡. Right¡. ?RIGHT? (Here¡¯s to hoping!) :)
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On May 18, 2025, at 6:11?AM, jjpurdum via groups.io <jjpurdum@...> wrote:
Does anyone know of a paper that discusses the net gains made by Polar Modulation compare to other forms?
Jack, W8TEE
On Sunday, May 18, 2025 at 09:05:33 AM EDT, Chuck AI7SY <chuck@...> wrote:
What goes around, comes around. Polar modulation was invented by Thomas Edison in 1874. ;)
|
Matt:
You give me too much credit. To be honest, I wasn't sure what Polar modulation was. I have looked at Controlled Envelop SSB, but I don't think that's the same thing. I think Greg Raven (KF5N) has CESSB working on his T41, but he's using slightly different hardware. I would like to know more, hence the question about resources on it. It's an old-dog-new-tricks thing...
Jack, W8TEE
On Sunday, May 18, 2025 at 09:29:29 AM EDT, Kaufman, Matt - N3AR via groups.io <matt.d.kaufman@...> wrote:
Nope, but that¡¯s because you haven¡¯t written it yet. ?I expect we¡¯ll see that paper from you right before the T42 release that uses Polar Modulation¡. Right¡. ?RIGHT? (Here¡¯s to hoping!) :)
On May 18, 2025, at 6:11?AM, jjpurdum via groups.io <jjpurdum@...> wrote:
Does anyone know of a paper that discusses the net gains made by Polar Modulation compare to other forms?
Jack, W8TEE
On Sunday, May 18, 2025 at 09:05:33 AM EDT, Chuck AI7SY <chuck@...> wrote:
What goes around, comes around. Polar modulation was invented by Thomas Edison in 1874. ;)
|
On Sun, May 18, 2025 at 09:11 AM, jjpurdum wrote:
Does anyone know of a paper that discusses the net gains made by Polar Modulation compare to other forms?
Here is a 2003 article which gives an overview, with some pretty impressive performance numbers: ?
The mobile handset business has been using polar modulation for years, and IIRC there was an HF 500-1000W amp which used an analog approach to the technique some decades ago.? SGC, maybe?
73, Don N2VGU
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I think polar modulation is the same basic technique used by F5OEO to use Raspberry Pi DMA and GPIO pins, and by pe1nnz?in the uSDX software use amplitude modulated or Si5351 clock generator phase modulation, to produce SSB from a 1 bit transmitter output. ?
Code for both implementations available on GitHub. ?For the finals, Flex appears to have use a 500W military contract grade class D amp, instead of a 1 to 5 Watt class E amp built out of 10 cent transistors.
73, Ron, n6ywu
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Hans,
? How did you get a QRPLABS shirt to actually fit you?? I ordered an XL but it was way
too small. :-)
????
have fun at FDIM
JP
KA3BWP
|
I was part teasing you, part hinting at what everyone wants - more T41-series radios, and part admiring your technical acumen and contributions to radio knowledge that you¡¯ve demonstrated through some amazing publications/books.
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On May 18, 2025, at 6:52?AM, jjpurdum via groups.io <jjpurdum@...> wrote:
Matt:
You give me too much credit. To be honest, I wasn't sure what Polar modulation was. I have looked at Controlled Envelop SSB, but I don't think that's the same thing. I think Greg Raven (KF5N) has CESSB working on his T41, but he's using slightly different hardware. I would like to know more, hence the question about resources on it. It's an old-dog-new-tricks thing...
Jack, W8TEE
On Sunday, May 18, 2025 at 09:29:29 AM EDT, Kaufman, Matt - N3AR via groups.io <matt.d.kaufman@...> wrote:
Nope, but that¡¯s because you haven¡¯t written it yet. ?I expect we¡¯ll see that paper from you right before the T42 release that uses Polar Modulation¡. Right¡. ?RIGHT? (Here¡¯s to hoping!) :)
On May 18, 2025, at 6:11?AM, jjpurdum via groups.io <jjpurdum@...> wrote:
Does anyone know of a paper that discusses the net gains made by Polar Modulation compare to other forms?
Jack, W8TEE
On Sunday, May 18, 2025 at 09:05:33 AM EDT, Chuck AI7SY <chuck@...> wrote:
What goes around, comes around. Polar modulation was invented by Thomas Edison in 1874. ;)
|
No, I saw the tongue-in-cheek part of your comment, but I would like to know more. Al and I have actually turned the T41 Project over to Oliver and Bill going forward, as those two can cover the software/hardware elements of the project better than we could. We're not done, however. One of the things I want to do is make a more POTA-friendly version of the Double-Double mag loop system:  The advantages are the Double-Double is twice as efficient ( Rad Com, Feb, 2021) as a normal loop and the controller has a graphics interface so you can see the SWR as the stepper tunes the antenna. (I'm going to make a "skinny" Double-Double out of coax so it will be more portable.)? Also, once it finds the optimal freq/capacitor count, it stores that data in EEPROM. So, the next time you tune the antenna, it looks for the closest frequency match to your current frequency in EEPROM and uses that as the capacitor starting point for the minimum SWR starting point. The more you use the system, the faster it gets. No more Army crawl to sneak up on the loop or tuning with a stick to minimize body capacitance effects on the SWR. I plan on writing an article on the controller, as it could be used with any loop. The cost for the controller should be under $50 and will likely have more features than commercial controllers have at several hundred dollars.
Fun stuff...
Jack, W8TEE
On Sunday, May 18, 2025 at 11:05:20 AM EDT, Kaufman, Matt - N3AR via groups.io <matt.d.kaufman@...> wrote:
I was part teasing you, part hinting at what everyone wants - more T41-series radios, and part admiring your technical acumen and contributions to radio knowledge that you¡¯ve demonstrated through some amazing publications/books.
On May 18, 2025, at 6:52?AM, jjpurdum via groups.io <jjpurdum@...> wrote:
Matt:
You give me too much credit. To be honest, I wasn't sure what Polar modulation was. I have looked at Controlled Envelop SSB, but I don't think that's the same thing. I think Greg Raven (KF5N) has CESSB working on his T41, but he's using slightly different hardware. I would like to know more, hence the question about resources on it. It's an old-dog-new-tricks thing...
Jack, W8TEE
On Sunday, May 18, 2025 at 09:29:29 AM EDT, Kaufman, Matt - N3AR via groups.io <matt.d.kaufman@...> wrote:
Nope, but that¡¯s because you haven¡¯t written it yet. ?I expect we¡¯ll see that paper from you right before the T42 release that uses Polar Modulation¡. Right¡. ?RIGHT? (Here¡¯s to hoping!) :)
On May 18, 2025, at 6:11?AM, jjpurdum via groups.io <jjpurdum@...> wrote:
Does anyone know of a paper that discusses the net gains made by Polar Modulation compare to other forms?
Jack, W8TEE
On Sunday, May 18, 2025 at 09:05:33 AM EDT, Chuck AI7SY <chuck@...> wrote:
What goes around, comes around. Polar modulation was invented by Thomas Edison in 1874. ;)
|
Thanks!
Jack, W8TEE
On Sunday, May 18, 2025 at 10:07:26 AM EDT, Donald S Brant Jr via groups.io <dsbrantjr@...> wrote:
On Sun, May 18, 2025 at 09:11 AM, jjpurdum wrote:
Does anyone know of a paper that discusses the net gains made by Polar Modulation compare to other forms?
Here is a 2003 article which gives an overview, with some pretty impressive performance numbers: ?
The mobile handset business has been using polar modulation for years, and IIRC there was an HF 500-1000W amp which used an analog approach to the technique some decades ago.? SGC, maybe?
73, Don N2VGU
|
That¡¯s super cool! ?And I hadn¡¯t heard that the project was turned over to Oliver and Bill. ?Do you know if they have a site that they have started up for it for current status, future plans, etc.?
Also - that Mag Loop looks super unique; looks like it¡¯d be fun to build and get weird looks from random people in a park from.
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On May 18, 2025, at 8:45?AM, jjpurdum via groups.io <jjpurdum@...> wrote:
No, I saw the tongue-in-cheek part of your comment, but I would like to know more. Al and I have actually turned the T41 Project over to Oliver and Bill going forward, as those two can cover the software/hardware elements of the project better than we could. We're not done, however. One of the things I want to do is make a more POTA-friendly version of the Double-Double mag loop system: <Loop-Controller.png>
The advantages are the Double-Double is twice as efficient (Rad Com, Feb, 2021) as a normal loop and the controller has a graphics interface so you can see the SWR as the stepper tunes the antenna. (I'm going to make a "skinny" Double-Double out of coax so it will be more portable.)? Also, once it finds the optimal freq/capacitor count, it stores that data in EEPROM. So, the next time you tune the antenna, it looks for the closest frequency match to your current frequency in EEPROM and uses that as the capacitor starting point for the minimum SWR starting point. The more you use the system, the faster it gets. No more Army crawl to sneak up on the loop or tuning with a stick to minimize body capacitance effects on the SWR. I plan on writing an article on the controller, as it could be used with any loop. The cost for the controller should be under $50 and will likely have more features than commercial controllers have at several hundred dollars.
Fun stuff...
Jack, W8TEE
On Sunday, May 18, 2025 at 11:05:20 AM EDT, Kaufman, Matt - N3AR via groups.io <matt.d.kaufman@...> wrote:
I was part teasing you, part hinting at what everyone wants - more T41-series radios, and part admiring your technical acumen and contributions to radio knowledge that you¡¯ve demonstrated through some amazing publications/books.
On May 18, 2025, at 6:52?AM, jjpurdum via groups.io <jjpurdum@...> wrote:
Matt:
You give me too much credit. To be honest, I wasn't sure what Polar modulation was. I have looked at Controlled Envelop SSB, but I don't think that's the same thing. I think Greg Raven (KF5N) has CESSB working on his T41, but he's using slightly different hardware. I would like to know more, hence the question about resources on it. It's an old-dog-new-tricks thing...
Jack, W8TEE
On Sunday, May 18, 2025 at 09:29:29 AM EDT, Kaufman, Matt - N3AR via groups.io <matt.d.kaufman@...> wrote:
Nope, but that¡¯s because you haven¡¯t written it yet. ?I expect we¡¯ll see that paper from you right before the T42 release that uses Polar Modulation¡. Right¡. ?RIGHT? (Here¡¯s to hoping!) :)
On May 18, 2025, at 6:11?AM, jjpurdum via groups.io <jjpurdum@...> wrote:
Does anyone know of a paper that discusses the net gains made by Polar Modulation compare to other forms?
Jack, W8TEE
On Sunday, May 18, 2025 at 09:05:33 AM EDT, Chuck AI7SY <chuck@...> wrote:
What goes around, comes around. Polar modulation was invented by Thomas Edison in 1874. ;)
|
As far as control of the project, nothing really changes other than they will shepherd the project into the future. I just turned 82 last week and Al's older than me (yeah, I know...hard to believe he's older) and we were getting a little burned out plus we have some other stuff we want to do (e.g., the mag loop stuff) before the sand runs out.?
Oliver has formalized the software by hosting it on Github. I think he's posted the account info on SCHR. They will continue to use this site as before.
Jack, W8TEE
On Sunday, May 18, 2025 at 12:10:36 PM EDT, Kaufman, Matt - N3AR via groups.io <matt.d.kaufman@...> wrote:
That¡¯s super cool! ?And I hadn¡¯t heard that the project was turned over to Oliver and Bill. ?Do you know if they have a site that they have started up for it for current status, future plans, etc.?
Also - that Mag Loop looks super unique; looks like it¡¯d be fun to build and get weird looks from random people in a park from.
On May 18, 2025, at 8:45?AM, jjpurdum via groups.io <jjpurdum@...> wrote:
No, I saw the tongue-in-cheek part of your comment, but I would like to know more. Al and I have actually turned the T41 Project over to Oliver and Bill going forward, as those two can cover the software/hardware elements of the project better than we could. We're not done, however. One of the things I want to do is make a more POTA-friendly version of the Double-Double mag loop system: <Loop-Controller.png>
The advantages are the Double-Double is twice as efficient (Rad Com, Feb, 2021) as a normal loop and the controller has a graphics interface so you can see the SWR as the stepper tunes the antenna. (I'm going to make a "skinny" Double-Double out of coax so it will be more portable.)? Also, once it finds the optimal freq/capacitor count, it stores that data in EEPROM. So, the next time you tune the antenna, it looks for the closest frequency match to your current frequency in EEPROM and uses that as the capacitor starting point for the minimum SWR starting point. The more you use the system, the faster it gets. No more Army crawl to sneak up on the loop or tuning with a stick to minimize body capacitance effects on the SWR. I plan on writing an article on the controller, as it could be used with any loop. The cost for the controller should be under $50 and will likely have more features than commercial controllers have at several hundred dollars.
Fun stuff...
Jack, W8TEE
On Sunday, May 18, 2025 at 11:05:20 AM EDT, Kaufman, Matt - N3AR via groups.io <matt.d.kaufman@...> wrote:
I was part teasing you, part hinting at what everyone wants - more T41-series radios, and part admiring your technical acumen and contributions to radio knowledge that you¡¯ve demonstrated through some amazing publications/books.
On May 18, 2025, at 6:52?AM, jjpurdum via groups.io <jjpurdum@...> wrote:
Matt:
You give me too much credit. To be honest, I wasn't sure what Polar modulation was. I have looked at Controlled Envelop SSB, but I don't think that's the same thing. I think Greg Raven (KF5N) has CESSB working on his T41, but he's using slightly different hardware. I would like to know more, hence the question about resources on it. It's an old-dog-new-tricks thing...
Jack, W8TEE
On Sunday, May 18, 2025 at 09:29:29 AM EDT, Kaufman, Matt - N3AR via groups.io <matt.d.kaufman@...> wrote:
Nope, but that¡¯s because you haven¡¯t written it yet. ?I expect we¡¯ll see that paper from you right before the T42 release that uses Polar Modulation¡. Right¡. ?RIGHT? (Here¡¯s to hoping!) :)
On May 18, 2025, at 6:11?AM, jjpurdum via groups.io <jjpurdum@...> wrote:
Does anyone know of a paper that discusses the net gains made by Polar Modulation compare to other forms?
Jack, W8TEE
On Sunday, May 18, 2025 at 09:05:33 AM EDT, Chuck AI7SY <chuck@...> wrote:
What goes around, comes around. Polar modulation was invented by Thomas Edison in 1874. ;)
|
On Sun, May 18, 2025 at 11:46 AM, jjpurdum wrote:
One of the things I want to do is make a more POTA-friendly version of the Double-Double mag loop system
Hi Jack,
I would love to find out more about the Double Double mag loop system and the new controller.?
?
Is there a site or forum where you post updates about the projects?
?
Thanks,
?
-Dj, N1JOV
|
Hi Jack
This is the 2017 polar Explorer paper. Which was developed into the new Aurora transceiver.?
The end result, SSB, is the same whether made by a crystal filter superhet or polar modulation in QMX. In that sense there are no net gains, it's the same. But with polar modulation there are other significant benefits: - Easier to get good ntermodulation performance due to not requiring linear amplifier.?
- Higher efficiency means lower power consumption, smaller heatsinks, lower cost devices, smaller enclosures, less weight.?
- The above leads to lower cost and particularly, a higher performance : price ratio?
The disadvantage is higher complexity but modern DSP and CPUs largely mitigate this issue.?
73 Hans G0UPL
Does anyone know of a paper that discusses the net gains made by Polar Modulation compare to other forms?
Jack, W8TEE
On Sunday, May 18, 2025 at 09:05:33 AM EDT, Chuck AI7SY < chuck@...> wrote:
What goes around, comes around. Polar modulation was invented by Thomas Edison in 1874. ;)
|
Thanks, Hans. Have a safe trip home...
Jack, W8TEE
On Sunday, May 18, 2025 at 03:22:59 PM EDT, Hans Summers via groups.io <hans.summers@...> wrote:
Hi Jack
This is the 2017 polar Explorer paper. Which was developed into the new Aurora transceiver.?
The end result, SSB, is the same whether made by a crystal filter superhet or polar modulation in QMX. In that sense there are no net gains, it's the same. But with polar modulation there are other significant benefits: - Easier to get good ntermodulation performance due to not requiring linear amplifier.?
- Higher efficiency means lower power consumption, smaller heatsinks, lower cost devices, smaller enclosures, less weight.?
- The above leads to lower cost and particularly, a higher performance : price ratio?
The disadvantage is higher complexity but modern DSP and CPUs largely mitigate this issue.?
73 Hans G0UPL
Does anyone know of a paper that discusses the net gains made by Polar Modulation compare to other forms?
Jack, W8TEE
On Sunday, May 18, 2025 at 09:05:33 AM EDT, Chuck AI7SY < chuck@...> wrote:
What goes around, comes around. Polar modulation was invented by Thomas Edison in 1874. ;)
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Dan Romanchik KB6NU
Chuck AI7SY
jjpurdum
Kaufman, Matt - N3AR
Donald S Brant Jr
JP McGinley KA3BWP
Dj Merrill