|
One of the creators of the FT8 software said during a talk that it’s addicting. So true! ?I caution folk new to digital modes (like me) to be careful. You’ll find yourself drawn to the computer to see what exotic call signs the little black box is receiving. Early this morning the VK and JA call signs were all over my screen!?
Thanks again Hans!
73 de ai4ot
|
Yep, don’t keep the same time of day for your fix of digi mode watching / operating , that way you will see all sorts of goodies appear on your scree
?
Also if you find the FT8 band crazy busy, try FT4, it tends to be less busy and it runs with 7.5 second frames instead of the 15 second frames of FT8
?
The other essential if you play digi modes is pskreporter.info it provides real time information on where you are getting to
?
This link shows what has been send and received by the UK look on youtube for some videos about it
?
Have fun and there is no known cure for addiction to digital modes
?
?
Hans creating devices like the QCX and QDX is just feeding the addiction of us hams
?
?
Enjoy
?
73
Peter
M0PWX
?
?
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
From: alphaindia4oscartango via groups.io
Sent: 13 June 2022 14:19
To: [email protected]
Subject: [QRPLabs] QDX caution
?
One of the creators of the FT8 software said during a talk that it’s addicting. So true! ?I caution folk new to digital modes (like me) to be careful. You’ll find yourself drawn to the computer to see what exotic call signs the little black box is receiving.
Early this morning the VK and JA call signs were all over my screen!?
Thanks again Hans!
73 de ai4ot
|
Absolutely, FT8 can be addicting. It is a boon to those running QRP and/or with compromised antennas and/or high levels of QRN in urban environments. However, it is a bit like shooting fish in a barrel and after about 45mins I get bored and head back to CW. ;-)
|
FT8 is amazing when you first see all the DX activity and you realize that DXCC is within your grasp even with a compromised antenna system (much to the chagrin of some hams at least in my local club!). But why do we continue to spend time working domestic contacts and continue to get enjoyment from it? The answer, I believe, is found in slot machines.
If you enjoy playing the slots, there's a bit of an dopamine hit every time the lights and bells go off. You get a somewhat higher hit if you win a bit more and a lesser hit if you win less. The expectation of getting that "good feeling" keeps you pulling the lever. There are a couple keys:
1. Visual and audio feedback from the spinning wheels, lights and the sounds
2. The anticipation that builds as the wheels spin to a stop
3. When you win, you get a bit of a money reward which gives you that dopamine hit which is reinforced by more lights and sounds.
When the bands are dead for DX, you have to work more contacts to get the same dopamine?load but after about an hour and 15 contacts or so, I'm feeling pretty happy even if they are all from California!
creates a sound when it logs contacts. I have that turned off at the moment but I've found myself creating it in my head. All of the other visual experience such as drawing a line to the station I'm contacting on the map or showing that I just logged a contact to LOTW and my local log enhances the experience. When I make a contact, GridTracker also pops up a screen about the person I'm in QSO with which adds to the visual experience.
I would suggest that the reason FT4 isn't as popular is that contacts are over too quickly and the time to build anticipation isn't there so you don't get the same dopamine?hit. It's like a slot machine without the spinning wheels that just says "win" or "lose" -- and asks for more money.
For those of us that think we're very rational, FT8 also allows us to easily calculate our cost per contact. In the last year, I worked about 4,500 contacts and I put about $2,500 into building the station so I'm at about $0.55 per contact. If I was just doing CW or SSB, my cost per contact would be huge in comparison. QDX is really interesting because it has the potential to really drive down the cost per contact which I think is crucial to recruiting and retaining people in ham radio.?
FWIW,
73 Mark KB0US
|
“would suggest that the reason FT4 isn't as popular is that contacts are over too quickly and the time to build anticipation isn't there so you don't get the same dopamine?hit. It's like a slot machine without
the spinning wheels that just says "win" or "lose" -- and asks for more money.”
?
But the thing is you will often be able to make better DX contacts on FT4 as its not as busy and you don’t tend to get drowned out by the Kilowatt+ EU stations
?
eQSL and QRZ.com do some nice little awards to keep the interest up as well if you look on my qrz.com page
at the bottom you can see some of the awards (all free I might add) but they make for some fun when you start getting down to the rarer entities
?
so you can have an added jackpot feeling when you get the awards as well
?
?
have fun, and don’t forget you can do JS8Call (uses the same protocol as FT8) as well if you are into more conversational digital, its similar to rtty / psk3 where you type rather than a canned QSO
?
Peter
M0PWX
?
?
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
From: Mark KB0US via groups.io
Sent: 13 June 2022 17:56
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [QRPLabs] QDX caution
?
FT8 is amazing when you first see all the DX activity and you realize that DXCC is within your grasp even with a compromised antenna system (much to the chagrin of some hams at least in my local club!). But why do we continue to spend time
working domestic contacts and continue to get enjoyment from it? The answer, I believe, is found in slot machines.
If you enjoy playing the slots, there's a bit of an dopamine hit every time the lights and bells go off. You get a somewhat higher hit if you win a bit more and a lesser hit if you win less. The expectation of getting that "good feeling" keeps you pulling the
lever. There are a couple keys:
1. Visual and audio feedback from the spinning wheels, lights and the sounds
2. The anticipation that builds as the wheels spin to a stop
3. When you win, you get a bit of a money reward which gives you that dopamine hit which is reinforced by more lights and sounds.
When the bands are dead for DX, you have to work more contacts to get the same dopamine?load but after about an hour and 15 contacts or so, I'm feeling pretty happy even if they are all from California!
creates a sound when it logs contacts. I have that turned off at the moment but I've found myself creating it in my head. All of the other visual experience such as drawing a line to the station
I'm contacting on the map or showing that I just logged a contact to LOTW and my local log enhances the experience. When I make a contact, GridTracker also pops up a screen about the person I'm in QSO with which adds to the visual experience.
I would suggest that the reason FT4 isn't as popular is that contacts are over too quickly and the time to build anticipation isn't there so you don't get the same dopamine?hit. It's like a slot machine without the spinning wheels that just says "win" or "lose"
-- and asks for more money.
For those of us that think we're very rational, FT8 also allows us to easily calculate our cost per contact. In the last year, I worked about 4,500 contacts and I put about $2,500 into building the station so I'm at about $0.55 per contact. If I was just doing
CW or SSB, my cost per contact would be huge in comparison. QDX is really interesting because it has the potential to really drive down the cost per contact which I think is crucial to recruiting and retaining people in ham radio.?
FWIW,
73 Mark KB0US
|
I guess digital is OK, but -- nothing can match the satisfaction of unkeying the PTT on an Astatic stand mic and logging (using a pencil!) a DX QSO.
I can't always do that, but I know of one way to become as popular as DX on a mostly domestic net that shall remain nameless.? For now. ?
When my QDX arrives, I'll try a few of the digital modes.? Somebody please tell me -- has the ARRL separated out digital modes from the old CW / Phone awards like WAS, DXCC, etc.?? That makes digital a different paper to chase, and no less valid.
Just a little easier.
73 Jim N6OTQ
FT8 is amazing when you first see all the DX activity and you realize that DXCC is within your grasp even with a compromised antenna system (much to the chagrin of some hams at least in my local club!).?
|
On Mon, Jun 13, 2022 at 02:17 PM, M0PWX wrote:
But the thing is you will often be able to make better DX contacts on FT4 as its not as busy and you don’t tend to get drowned out by the Kilowatt+ EU stations
?
I agree with Peter on this. Also sometimes the shorter transmit cycle on FT4 (7.5 seconds) can work to your advantage when there is QSB. I have found that often the less crowded conditions on 20m FT4 (you won't find much activity on this mode on any other band except perhaps 17m on occasion) most often seem to make up for the -3dB penalty in signal strength as compared to FT8.? I have actually worked some pretty decent DX on 20m FT4 with the QDX. Cheers Michael VE3WMB P.S. As with any other mode(s) working QRP on FT8/FT4 often requires some different techniques than doing so at QRO power levels.? For instance I rarely bother to try to work a station that is coming in weaker that -10dB as most often they can't hear me. However sometimes you get lucky, it is a bit like fishing? ;-)
|
so you can have an added jackpot feeling when you get the awards as well??
Agreed. I like FT4 as well for the points you make. I think making FT4 a bit different by adding a "contest field" would be interesting. For example, this weekend there were stations calling CQ LCT on FT8. This was for a special event for the on the Air. I think having this on FT4 and adding another field that such as (in this instance) the number of states you've worked that are on the Lewis and Clark Trail would be great. Wouldn't it be cool if you could click on "LCT" in WSJT* and have it open??I really don't like CQ TEST ( CQ CON TEST) because I have no idea what contest I'm participating in. LCT is worse but I eventually found out what it was with Google. There all sorts of fun things GridTracker could do such as highlight all 16 states on the Lewis and Clark Trail or just highlight the states that you've worked. With a little thought, any club should be able to have a contest which is uniquely identified by GridTracker in some interesting way. GridTracker could then, for instance, even create something that could be used to send for a certificate (essentially the log for the stations worked during the contest period.) I really enjoy JS8, by way.? 73, Mark KB0US *Maybe that's more appropriately a GridTracker function where WSJT is just passing the information to a third party program. I'm not trying to design the solution as much as pointing out the opportunity. Field Da is the same -- wouldn't it be cool if your points were automagically calculated and displayed in some cool way? This would be great for "non-hams" who are visiting because it's really clear what's going on.
|
I must be old enough to be immune to FT8, etc. ?Built two digital xcvrs, played with them during the winter in Florida a year ago, got bored and have both ready to be given away to any club member. Most already have their own versions so they sit there. My fun is building kits, figuring out why they don’t work, making a few CW contacts and then on to the next kit. ?Been doing that for more than 50 years. ?FT8 and other digital modes are “contacts” but no more than that. ?Just aren’t fun. ?But quite a few hams in my coffee group are having a blast….. more power to them. ?
Dave K8WPE since 1960 David J. Wilcox’s iPad
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On Jun 13, 2022, at 12:26 PM, Larry VE7EA <lagagnon@...> wrote:
?Absolutely, FT8 can be addicting. It is a boon to those running QRP and/or with compromised antennas and/or high levels of QRN in urban environments. However, it is a bit like shooting fish in a barrel and after about 45mins I get bored and head back to CW. ;-)
|
On Mon, Jun 13, 2022 at 03:21 PM, David Wilcox K8WPE wrote:
I must be old enough to be immune to FT8, etc. . . .
Well Dave, I'm 33 and I am pretty immune to it.? I tried it a couple times a couple years ago... not my thing.? I like JS8 Call but not FT8.? The QDX can be used for more than just FT8 though. Variety is part of what makes ham radio work for so many.? I'm glad people are stacking up contacts with FT8 if that's what gets them involved. Joshua
|
I'm like Dave. Been a ham since 1954 and really old. 81 But still active on CW and SSB. The digital
-----Original Message-----
From: David Wilcox K8WPE via groups.io <Djwilcox01@...>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Mon, Jun 13, 2022 3:21 pm
Subject: Re: [QRPLabs] QDX caution
I must be old enough to be immune to FT8, etc. ?Built two digital xcvrs, played with them during the winter in Florida a year ago, got bored and have both ready to be given away to any club member. Most already have their own versions so they sit there. My fun is building kits, figuring out why they don’t work, making a few CW contacts and then on to the next kit. ?Been doing that for more than 50 years. ?FT8 and other digital modes are “contacts” but no more than that. ?Just aren’t fun. ?But quite a few hams in my coffee group are having a blast….. more power to them. ?
Dave K8WPE since 1960
David J. Wilcox’s iPad
On Jun 13, 2022, at 12:26 PM, Larry VE7EA <lagagnon@...> wrote:
?Absolutely, FT8 can be addicting. It is a boon to those running QRP and/or with compromised antennas and/or high levels of QRN in urban environments. However, it is a bit like shooting fish in a barrel and after about 45mins I get bored and head back to CW. ;-)
|
I'm like Dave. The digital modes don't interest me at all.? I've been a ham since 1954 and pretty much active since then. I'm really old, 81. I agree, if it brings new people to the hobby then it's great. I am still active on CW and SSB and also believe that personal communications are the basis for our hobby.??
Computer to computer contacts, not my cup of tea.
Gary W0CKI
-----Original Message-----
From: David Wilcox K8WPE via groups.io <Djwilcox01@...>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Mon, Jun 13, 2022 3:21 pm
Subject: Re: [QRPLabs] QDX caution
I must be old enough to be immune to FT8, etc. ?Built two digital xcvrs, played with them during the winter in Florida a year ago, got bored and have both ready to be given away to any club member. Most already have their own versions so they sit there. My fun is building kits, figuring out why they don’t work, making a few CW contacts and then on to the next kit. ?Been doing that for more than 50 years. ?FT8 and other digital modes are “contacts” but no more than that. ?Just aren’t fun. ?But quite a few hams in my coffee group are having a blast….. more power to them. ?
Dave K8WPE since 1960
David J. Wilcox’s iPad
On Jun 13, 2022, at 12:26 PM, Larry VE7EA <lagagnon@...> wrote:
?Absolutely, FT8 can be addicting. It is a boon to those running QRP and/or with compromised antennas and/or high levels of QRN in urban environments. However, it is a bit like shooting fish in a barrel and after about 45mins I get bored and head back to CW. ;-)
|
There is a need for a definitive list of software and modes that work with the QDX / QCX
?
We know WSJT-x, JS8Call work
?
I believe someone has got FLDigi working with some modes
?
The QDX can’t do PSK, only do single tone FSK and not multitone, so something like olivia may work as well, maybe even hellschriber as well
?
Lots of more fun modes the QDX should be capable of rather than just FT8/4 etc
?
If several owners are close together with reliable prop, or a QDX owner and s with a normal rig willing to play it may be fun working out what they can really do
?
Hans has provided a fantastic piece of hardware and the basic apps, the spirit of ham radio is experimentation, go experiment, see what works and what don’t and document the results
?
?
73
?
Peter
M0PWX
?
?
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
From: Joshua KJ7LVZ
Sent: 13 June 2022 21:35
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [QRPLabs] QDX caution
?
On Mon, Jun 13, 2022 at 03:21 PM, David Wilcox K8WPE wrote:
I must be old enough to be immune to FT8, etc. . . .
Well Dave, I'm 33 and I am pretty immune to it.? I tried it a couple times a couple years ago... not my thing.? I like JS8 Call but not FT8.? The QDX can be used for more than just FT8 though.
Variety is part of what makes ham radio work for so many.? I'm glad people are stacking up contacts with FT8 if that's what gets them involved.
Joshua
|
Hi Gary
?
I am a relatively new ham, and I am the opposite, I love digital mode comms, but not into CW / phone
?
I do like RTTY / psk31 / js8call but can’t find much local activity for them, when I do find any level of activity all I get is contests which is no better than FT8
?
If we all liked the same thing, ham radio would be boring
?
?
Peter
M0PWX
?
?
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
From: Gary Bernard via groups.io
Sent: 13 June 2022 21:56
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [QRPLabs] QDX caution
?
I'm like Dave. The digital modes don't interest me at all.? I've been a ham since 1954 and pretty much active since then. I'm really old, 81. I agree, if it brings
new people to the hobby then it's great. I am still active on CW and SSB and also believe that personal communications are the basis for our hobby.??
Computer to computer contacts, not my cup of tea.
?
|
You can always use the 13 character free text mode of FT8 to have a regular (non-contest) QSO at about the equivalent of 5 WPM. ?Just pick a clear frequency well away from the usual FT4/8 watering holes. ?If you find someone game (or schedule a QSO), don't forget to ID every 10 minutes (20 exchange pairs).
73, Ron, N6YWU
|
There is something to be said about the +15 dB processing gain of FT8 and varying amounts with all of the JT modes.? (or 25 dB if you compare to SSB).? I actually am a ragchewer when I am able, which isn't often with a tight schedule or chasing DX or contest weekends, etc.? (which is how a busy guy has to operate, sadly enough.) In that respect I kinda feel that way with CW contacts as well.? Slow, terse.? Especially at my skill level.? Okay once and awhile.? Gonna give CW a lot of time a practice once I finally retire in 5 to 10 years.. Maybe it will be different then... Hopefully I can finally become a natural at Morse.? ?Yeah I passed the test and then lost it.. Gained it back somewhat... Lost it again...at least three times in my life.? Digital modes are the substitute for guys like me...?
I do miss psk31 though.? I had some great tech discussions (yes slowly) on that mode.? If I have any ill feelings for FT8 it was for killing off psk31.? ?I suppose those of you whose CW skills are good enough to be doing two other things at once like I did with psk31 I can completely understand... Yeah I have personally known some of you guys who can copy 50 wpm in your sleep.?
No CW contact will ever beat that ragchew I had with JY1 on 10m SSB on a Tuesday afternoon in college two cycles ago, for example. I owned that band that afternoon.? That is one of three claims to fame that I tell people about when I try to talk them into getting a license.? This stuff does happen in ham radio.?
FT8 processing gain definitely makes rigs like the QDX significantly more effective if not possible.? It makes it possible for those HOA hell people like me, especially who's code will be rusty until I retire.? The other modes make EME possible for small stations, meteor scatter possible during times of no showers, etc.? There is a lot of fun stuff in that awkward UI of WSJT-X....?
I guess I always have been much more of an engineer than a ham, but the why of this is why I am a ham.? I suppose to each his own but in my case anyway technology like FT8 is why I am a ham. That and the love of RF "Black magic"... It never gets old for me.
I like building even more than ragchewing...?
The QDX is clever enough that it's bringing a lot of extra fun to modes like FT8...?
There is so many different things to build and try in ham radio.? Almost all are good!? :).?
Fred W0FMS
On Mon, Jun 13, 2022, 2:21 PM David Wilcox K8WPE via <Djwilcox01= [email protected]> wrote: I must be old enough to be immune to FT8, etc.? Built two digital xcvrs, played with them during the winter in Florida a year ago, got bored and have both ready to be given away to any club member. Most already have their own versions so they sit there. My fun is building kits, figuring out why they don’t work, making a few CW contacts and then on to the next kit.? Been doing that for more than 50 years.? FT8 and other digital modes are “contacts” but no more than that.? Just aren’t fun.? But quite a few hams in my coffee group are having a blast….. more power to them. ?
Dave K8WPE since 1960 David J. Wilcox’s iPad On Jun 13, 2022, at 12:26 PM, Larry VE7EA <lagagnon@...> wrote:
?Absolutely, FT8 can be addicting. It is a boon to those running QRP and/or with compromised antennas and/or high levels of QRN in urban environments. However, it is a bit like shooting fish in a barrel and after about 45mins I get bored and head back to CW. ;-)
|
That's essentially what JS8call?is -- using the free text packets of the FT8 protocol for a more normal (albeit slow) QSO.
You can always use the 13 character free text mode of FT8 to have a regular (non-contest) QSO at about the equivalent of 5 WPM.? Just pick a clear frequency well away from the usual FT4/8 watering holes.? If you find someone game (or schedule a QSO), don't forget to ID every 10 minutes (20 exchange pairs).
73, Ron, N6YWU
|
I enjoy FT4/8 modes, as those are the only modes I can use to make contacts.? I'd much prefer CW, but CW contacts, with low powder and what amounts to a faraday shielded antenna just don't yeild much.? CW contests provide more yeild when you have big guns with very good ears online.
73! Mark K9TR
|
I live in Colorado and routinely make contacts with my mini’s and QCX rigs on both coasts with a trap vertical. Unlike FT8 and such, you have to be patient and work at it. That’s ham radio.
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On Jun 13, 2022, at 9:10 PM, Mark <venchant@...> wrote:
?I enjoy FT4/8 modes, as those are the only modes I can use to make contacts.? I'd much prefer CW, but CW contacts, with low powder and what amounts to a faraday shielded antenna just don't yeild much.? CW contests provide more yeild when you have big guns with very good ears online.
73! Mark K9TR
|
Not really. ?The JS8 encoding was changed in several ways such that an FT8 decoder can't decode it at all. ?And AFAIK currently the modifications aren't all documented sufficient to allow interoperable radio communication. ?I prefer to use modes that are publicly documented sufficiently that they can't possibly be considered obscured in any way. ?Such as FT8, where a full specification was published in QEX.
73, Ron, n6ywu
|
alphaindia4oscartango
Peter M0PWX
David Wilcox K8WPE
Joshua KJ7LVZ
Fred Spinner
Shirley Dulcey KE1L
Mark K9TR