|
I am new to building and having an extremely difficult time winding and installing T1 for the 40 meter kit. This has been my first effort at winding toroids. Between my eyesight and dexterity it's not coming together by doing it one time with the loops delineating the 5 turn windings. I have done it and redone it a number of times. I find the hand drawn diagram, by WA4MZS on page 50 very clear. Is there any reason why I cannot/should not do the windings separately following the wire winding pattern/sense in the diagram? Thank you for your guidance.
Ron, AL7JR
|
You probably could do it that way, but make sure you pay attention to the phase of the windings, as that is important in the circuit.
Jack, W8TEE
From: "ron.klein@..." <ron.klein@...>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Sunday, January 14, 2018 5:55 AM
Subject: [QRPLabs] Difficulty winding and installing transformer T1 #qcx
I am new to building and having an extremely difficult time winding and installing T1 for the 40 meter kit. This has been my first effort at winding toroids. Between my eyesight and dexterity it's not coming together by doing it one time with the loops delineating the 5 turn windings. I have done it and redone it a number of times. I find the hand drawn diagram, by WA4MZS on page 50 very clear. Is there any reason why I cannot/should not do the windings separately following the wire winding pattern/sense in the diagram? Thank you for your guidance.
Ron, AL7JR
|
? ? ? ? " ?Is there any reason why I cannot/should not do the windings separately following the wire winding pattern/sense in the diagram? Thank you for your guidance.Ron, AL7JR'
|
Yes do them separately, I did and it worked out fine.
Jess AE0CW Sent from my iPhone
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On Jan 14, 2018, at 3:08 AM, ron.klein@... wrote: I am new to building and having an extremely difficult time winding and installing T1 for the 40 meter kit. This has been my first effort at winding toroids. Between my eyesight and dexterity it's not coming together by doing it one time with the loops delineating the 5 turn windings. I have done it and redone it a number of times. I find the hand drawn diagram, by WA4MZS on page 50 very clear. Is there any reason why I cannot/should not do the windings separately following the wire winding pattern/sense in the diagram? Thank you for your guidance.
Ron, AL7JR
|
It's definitely? a trial in self restraint, LOL.
The hand drawn diagram is great and lays it out very well but one
does need to be quite dexterous and patient. Hold the coffee until
you are done! LOL.
John Mazzone
N2EIK
On 1/14/2018 8:18 AM, jjpurdum via
Groups.Io wrote:
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
You probably
could do it that way, but make sure you pay attention to the
phase of the windings, as that is important in the circuit.
Jack, W8TEE
I am new to building and having
an extremely difficult time winding and installing T1
for the 40 meter kit. This has been my first effort at
winding toroids. Between my eyesight and dexterity
it's not coming together by doing it one time with the
loops delineating the 5 turn windings. I have done it
and redone it a number of times. I find the hand drawn
diagram, by WA4MZS on page 50 very clear. Is there any
reason why I cannot/should not do the windings
separately following the wire winding pattern/sense in
the diagram? Thank you for your guidance.
Ron, AL7JR
|
I have not received my QCX yet but when I read the procedure for winding T1 my thought was why not wind each one separately?? I have built a lot of kits and wound a lot of toroids and that seems to em to be the best way to do it.
73, Bill NZ0T
|
Hi guys,
I took three goes to get mine correctly wound and installed. I have no excuses other than age!?
However here are the lessons I learned along the way since I wound my first one back in the mid nineties for my NORCAL 40a
My normal practice when winding toroids is to ?:-?
A. Cut the wire to length, there are quite a few on line calculators to help you with this such as?
B. Take a look at the PCB to see which way to wind it. There are two ways, clockwise and anti-clockwise, the aim is to use the way which matches the holes on the PCB.?
C. Wind the required number of turns making sure you leave a tail at the start and end so you can feed the wire through the holes on the PCB prior to soldering.?
D. Double check the number of turns. If your eyes are as bad as mine you might wish to take a take a picture enlarge it on the screen and count that way. Correct any errors.?
E. Tin the wire tails. Some people use the solder blob method, others scrape the insulation from the wire then tin, others burn it off. I tend to scrape a little off then use the solder blob method. Holding the toroid still while you do this can be difficult. I use a tapered chopstick mounted vertically in a small vice for this. The hole of the toroid neatly fits on the stick which holds it still enough to work on. My hands shake quite a bit at times so I find this trick useful, I learned it from an American ham whose callsign I have forgotten.?
F. When soldering to the PCB use the smallest amount of solder needed to make the joint. Most hams use way too much solder. Mostly that doesn¡¯t matter but with toroids it¡¯s often the case that you have to change the number of turns which means you have desolder the joint. The more solder you have on the joint the more you have to remove. One trick I use is to use a stainless steel sewing pin with a glass top, if you have made balsa wood model aircraft you probably have some. Heat the joint pull the wire out put the pin in the hole and twist it. The solder won¡¯t stick to the pin and you end up with a hole which will take the wire.?
G. When you wind a toroidal transformer it does make sense to use different colours of wires for each winding. I bought a load from a craft fair. As a beginner it made things a lot less confusing for me.?
Now in the case of Hans¡¯s instructions I thought to follow them because I have learned a lot from him in the past. The first two times I wound the transformer I made the loops too short. On the third attempt I got it right. However I found it easier to untwist the loop before I cut them and to thread the ends through the inside holes before the outer one. I expected some problems soldering the wires because I couldn¡¯t pre tin them in my usual method. However what helped was the liberal application of some flux from a Chemtronics dispensing pen. This seemed to help the solder ¡°melt¡± the insulation on the wire cleanly, quickly and with less heat than usual. It¡¯s a technique I will use again. May be I won¡¯t have to use my pre tinning technique if this works.?
I¡¯m sorry if this is too long for you old players but the OCX is being built by a lot of newcomers to construction and may be this will be helpful.?
Regards?
Steve G0XAR
|
after winding my 40m T1 as the manual suggests i had nothing but an uncountable mess on my hands!? so i wound them separately, putting a tiny dab of hot glue on each one as i finished it in order to tame it.? it worked great, and so does my QCX.
mike AK3F
On Sun, Jan 14, 2018 at 5:08 AM, <ron.klein@...> wrote: I am new to building and having an extremely difficult time winding and installing T1 for the 40 meter kit. This has been my first effort at winding toroids. Between my eyesight and dexterity it's not coming together by doing it one time with the loops delineating the 5 turn windings. I have done it and redone it a number of times. I find the hand drawn diagram, by WA4MZS on page 50 very clear. Is there any reason why I cannot/should not do the windings separately following the wire winding pattern/sense in the diagram? Thank you for your guidance.
Ron, AL7JR
|
I did mine as seperate windings for 40m worked out fine Nigel M0NDE
On 14 Jan 2018 10:55, < ron.klein@...> wrote: I am new to building and having an extremely difficult time winding and installing T1 for the 40 meter kit. This has been my first effort at winding toroids. Between my eyesight and dexterity it's not coming together by doing it one time with the loops delineating the 5 turn windings. I have done it and redone it a number of times. I find the hand drawn diagram, by WA4MZS on page 50 very clear. Is there any reason why I cannot/should not do the windings separately following the wire winding pattern/sense in the diagram? Thank you for your guidance.
Ron, AL7JR
|
Separate windings will work, if you make sure they are wound with the correct "sense". This is very important otherwise the detector and unwanted sideband cancellation don't work.
The idea of the method in the manual, winding the whole thing (all four windings) in one big winding, and leaving loops that you will later cut to separate the windings... this is designed to guarantee that you get all the windings done with the right "sense".
73 Hans G0UPL? ?
On Jan 14, 2018 8:06 PM, "Nigel Evans" < nigel.m0nde@...> wrote: I did mine as seperate windings for 40m worked out fine Nigel M0NDE
|
It's easy to always a toroid in the same sense.? I always stick the wire through the toroid towards me and then start winding to the left side of that first wire.? On could do it the other way too.? Just be consistent in how you start. And, as suggested above take a look at how the holes in the PCB are oriented soyou know which way to start.?
73, Bill NZ0T
|
QCX 40 T1 wound ok after I figured out which ends of the wires went in which holes, so they would just drop right in. My problem came from not RTFM and leaving a longer loop on the windings. If I had to do it over again I would leave a longer loop, and melt the insulation off after passing through hole. Testing the solder and not the wire for continuity works well.
Don WB9STS
|
Thank you all for your quick responses and tips. I am going to hold the coffee (and beer) and give it a shot! I'll report back!
Thanks!
Ron, AL7JR
|
Once a winding is where you want it, a few drops of super glue can hold it while starting the next winding.?
On Jan 14, 2018 4:55 AM, < ron.klein@...> wrote: I am new to building and having an extremely difficult time winding and installing T1 for the 40 meter kit. This has been my first effort at winding toroids. Between my eyesight and dexterity it's not coming together by doing it one time with the loops delineating the 5 turn windings. I have done it and redone it a number of times. I find the hand drawn diagram, by WA4MZS on page 50 very clear. Is there any reason why I cannot/should not do the windings separately following the wire winding pattern/sense in the diagram? Thank you for your guidance.
Ron, AL7JR
|
I just started working on my QCXlast night, starting with T1. My main problem encountered was that the #28 gauge wire after passing threw the torroid many many times started to develop micro sized burrs. When I got to the point of getting the wire threw the on, one of them broke. Leaving it too short. (The s3 winding). Feeling frustrated at the wires fragility,? I tried rewinding it with #24 enamel, (FWIW im building the 40m version)...38 turns...not enough space. So I pulled it all off and now with the remaining #28 supplied for T1, I went back and re wound it a 3rd time. Unfortunately the wire is rather nicked up...makes me nervous that it could short between turns. Anyways...i took a break and haven't yet mounted it on the board. Question now is, for all the other torroids in the kit that have significantly less turns...can I use my #24 wire? As its much easier to manipulate from a dexterity standpoint, it does fit threw the PCB holes...and it doesn't appear to get little nicks in it as easily as the #28 does.
|
Hi Im
I've not long since built my QCX40 and T1 was my first ever torroid. It is tricky but I think what has happened in your case is that you haven't "unwound" the wire.
I know it sounds mad but it needs to be unfurled from how it was packed in a straight line, otherwise you will get the kinks I think you are referring to.
I believe you will now not have enough wire but any of the same gauge or even less will do (so I believe). The gauge supplied for the QCX40 does just fit, though it is tight!,
Just make sure that the wire you order has enamel that can be burned off with a solder blob.?I bought some that wasn't for my ZM-2 AMU and it took an age to remove the enamel, used a fine rubbing paper in the end. I got mine next day from ebay. (UK)
Good luck Im, just have patience - this is the trickiest part of the build by far.
73s Ted
M7ECH
?
|
Agree with Ted. Indeed, take you time unwinding it and, when done, I take two pairs of pliers and give it a light stretch, which seems to make it easier to wind.
Jack, W8TEE
On Friday, February 1, 2019, 2:10:20 PM EST, qrp@... <qrp@...> wrote:
Hi Im
I've not long since built my QCX40 and T1 was my first ever torroid. It is tricky but I think what has happened in your case is that you haven't "unwound" the wire.
I know it sounds mad but it needs to be unfurled from how it was packed in a straight line, otherwise you will get the kinks I think you are referring to.
I believe you will now not have enough wire but any of the same gauge or even less will do (so I believe). The gauge supplied for the QCX40 does just fit, though it is tight!,
Just make sure that the wire you order has enamel that can be burned off with a solder blob.?I bought some that wasn't for my ZM-2 AMU and it took an age to remove the enamel, used a fine rubbing paper in the end. I got mine next day from ebay. (UK)
Good luck Im, just have patience - this is the trickiest part of the build by far.
73s Ted
M7ECH
?
|
I opted to not re-use the wire, and simply used fresh wire, so my T1 is fully wound now, just not mounted yet as I get some household stuff done. Question....would using #24 vs the supplied #28 for the other torroids like L1,2,3 probabaly be Ok? What are the upsides/ downsides to doing so if any?
Thanks for the replies!
|
Hi In
As long as the windings don't overlap it won't make any noticeable difference (afaik)
73 Ted
M7ECH
|
I find when winding a core needing lots of turns such as for an 80 meter coil, to find the middle of the wire needed for the wind and then wind each half of the winding with each half of the wire.? This way you are pulling a shorter length of wire through the core.? Of course you need to reverse the process through the core to wind up with one wind all wound in the same direction.? I also like to use different color wire for different windings. Much easier to keep track of things.? Dabs of five minute epoxy are your friend too in keeping things organized.? I use a tooth pick to apply epoxy so as not to over apply the stuff.? (I also like to put a dab of paint at the center of the wire before winding.? This way if you need to re-count turns once wound, you only have to count each half of the winding.)? Finally, the best advice, "Take your time" and don't get distracted so you miss judge your turns count.? All this may take winding the core longer, but it sure helps finishing with a good neat accurately wound inductor or transformer.
Lee, w0vt
|
jjpurdum
Nigel Evans M0NDE
Ted 2E0THH