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Chris Wilson 02 January 2018
Using Extreme Burner AVR I have never had a problem updating a QRP
Labs written chip, but yesterday I tried to flash a brand new chip and
it "failed to find device" or similar. I use Windows 7 64 bit and
write to the chip mounted in a working U3S and the U3S is powered up.
New chips are 328P marked and of branded origin. Am I missing
something here please? Thanks.
--
2E0ILY
Best regards,
Chris mailto:chris@...
--
Best regards, Chris Wilson (2E0ILY)
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As far as I know (the info is in the manual), you can only write the QCX hex file to a 328P chip that was prepared for the QCX by the author of the software (Hans, QRPLab). You cannot write the hex file to a brand new chip. Neverheless you should still be able to connect your ISP to the 328P of the QCX. I tried tried just for curiousity with an old U3S 328P: You will be able to write the hex file, it will verify, but when you start up the QCX with the hex file that you transferred to the brand new chip, you will get a message?? on the QWCX display that you must have to use a proper QCX control chip to upgrade the software. Your problems seem to have little to do with the QCX itself, but with the ISP software and the connection to the QCX board. However I am no specialist of microcontroller handling and can be wrong, but I know there are fancy things like fuse bits and stuff of that kind that has to be set right first before you can try to laod new firmware. I am almost sure you know that yourself.
73 Klaus
DL2QB / WN2Z
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Hello Klaus,
Tuesday, January 2, 2018
I *THINK* what's required is to first write the fuse bits. I have
found a link on Alan's (G4ZFQ's) web site for writing fuse bits with
this device, but it's for a U3, not a U3S, and I am unsure if it is
valid for the U3S processor. I may just try it, I have a few new
chips. Thanks for your reply Klaus and a happy and healthy New Year!
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As far as I know (the info is in the manual), you can only write
the QCX hex file to a 328P chip that was prepared for the QCX by the
author of the software (Hans, QRPLab). You cannot write the hex file
to a brand new chip. Neverheless you should still be able to connect
your ISP to the 328P of the QCX. I tried tried just for curiousity
with an old U3S 328P: You will be able to write the hex file, it
will verify, but when you start up the QCX with the hex file that
you transferred to the brand new chip, you will get a message on
the QWCX display that you must have to use a proper QCX control chip
to upgrade the software. Your problems seem to have little to do
with the QCX itself, but with the ISP software and the connection to
the QCX board. However I am no specialist of microcontroller
handling and can be wrong, but I know there are fancy things like
fuse bits and stuff of that kind that has to be set right first
before you can try to laod new firmware. I am almost sure you know that yourself. 73 Klaus
DL2QB / WN2Z -- 2E0ILY Best regards, Chris mailto:chris@...
--
Best regards, Chris Wilson (2E0ILY)
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This is really interesting.? I hope we get to the bottom of this mystery.? If I brick the original chip trying to do the upcoming FT8 upgrade, it would be nice to be able to program a raw replacement.
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Folks,
I planned for failure and surprisingly was able to program a new 328P last night?for my U3S using an Ardunio, avrdudess, and the instructions for updating the firmware in the QCX November 2017 QRP-Labs newsletter.??? I figured I would brick the original MCU so bought a blank one from Amazon.
General notes:
1.? Read all the messages in this forum about the subject.? Lots of great contributions-- I could not spell AVR yesterday morning.
2.? The avrdude ESS GUI is outstanding!? But it will trip all of your virus scanners.? This is covered in the GitHub discussion from four years ago.? This is the location where I found it:?
3.? I set the fuses as described in?the fuse calculator?from this site:?
For the 328P I used : L?0x62, H 0xD9, E 0xFF.? Several others have discussed this in the message forum - all good information.
4.? Lastly - try to read the chip before writing to it - make sure your communication is working first.? Obviously with a blank chip there was nothing to read but I could verify the hardware and software components were communicating correctly.
Now to TX CW on 630M!
Regards,
Dave W4VU
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While I have not had to flash a new firmware to one of my uP chips yet, what I have seen explained on this group is that most of the uP chips in the various QRP Labs kits can be firmware-upgraded by the user, including the QCX if you upgraade the uP chip supplied in the kit. All firmware upgrade hex files except the QCX files can be flashed to a new bare ATMega 328(P) if you can master the technique. As mention often, the block to doing the QCX is that the fuse bits must be set correctly in the new chip, and this information is not publicly available. So, for the QCX, a new chip ordered from QRP Labs Shop is the way to go. -- Wes
AE6ZM
Hereford, AZ
?
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On 3/01/2018 2:43 PM, Paul Parks wrote:
For the 328P I used
: L?0x62, H 0xD9, E 0xFF.? Several others have discussed this in
the message forum - all good information.
Are you sure?? Those look more like the 'blank' 328's default fuse
settings.? For a start, the low fuse 0x62 uses the internal 8MHz
clock ... the U3S will appear to run, but the calibration and
possibly the UTC clock will be out.?
Try? L = 0xF7??? H = 0xD9 ?? E = 0xFC
73, Bob? ZL1RS
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On Tue, Jan 2, 2018 at 05:43 pm, Paul Parks wrote:
I planned for failure and surprisingly was able to program a new 328P last night?for my U3S using an Ardunio, avrdudess
"Planning for failure" is the first sign of maturity.? Planning for failure beyond the direst limits of one's current imagination is the first sign of the Wisdom of Age.? Seems to me, anyhow. The mystery programmer I had foisted off on me on eBay instead of the USBasp I ordered has not responded to further experimentation and remains useless as of 02JAN2018.? I do not look to any happier outcome than a refund. The Arduino/AVRdudess/DuPont-jumpers approach looks really sensible to me (which doesn't in itself guarantee it will actually work, of course) and I have all the stuff already. I expect that the introduction of the new FT8-capable U3S firmware will generate about as much traffic as that of the QCX, so we'll have plenty to discuss then. [sigh!]
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I've looked at 5 different recommendations from people that have posted their successful settings for the U3.
They do vary slightly, maybe non-applicable, non-critical or depending on programming software?
See below
73 Alan G4ZFQ
2 PDFs IN FILES SECTION
1) Settings For Atmega328-PU and Atmel Studio Programmer
EXTENDED = 0xFC (valid)
HIGH = 0xD9 (valid)
LOW = 0xF7 (valid)
These settings are also those for eXtreme Programmer DO NOT use them with AVR Dude those settings should be well covered elsewhere..
2) Programming using AVRDude and the Atmega 328P-PU and 328 PU
Note:Recent evidence seems to point to the low power 328P-PU being a suitable substitute for the
328 PU. More case histories would be needed to give a positive thumbs up, due to conflicting reports.
Hex settings for the Fuses using AVRDude Programmer remain slightly different from those used with Atmel Studio and eXtreme Prograrammer and others.
For AVRDude use.
LOW = 0xF7
HIGH = 0xD9
EXTENDED = 0x04
Naturally the end result is the same as far as the 328 is concerned. What is different is the way that AVRDude holds the data. If the Atmel Studio values are used, Verification Errors will be flagged.
GROUP/WEB
3) April 2014 For fuse settings for the Atmel 328 using AVR Dude See this thread "The fuse settings for 3.03b are as follows:
Extended fuse:0x04 Low fuse:0xF7 High fuse:0xDF"
4) Try L = 0xF7 H = 0xD9 E = 0xFC Bob ZL1RS
5) And Andy's page here A screenshot of Extreme Burner setup for a Atmel 328. And using Windows 8. ALSO:-Files for updating Extreme Burner for the Atmel 328. "LOW = 0X F7, HIGH = 0X D9, EXTENDED = 0X FC, LOCK FUSE = 0X FF, CALIBRATION = 0X FFFFFFB9 - I do not think you require the lock fuse or the calibration."
SUMMARY
ALL:- Low F7
High D9 D9 D9 D9 DF
Extended FC 04 04 FC FC
LOCK NA
AVERDUDE different from rest? (See 2)
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I have a real AVR Programmer, actually two of them. Over the years I have had various Chinese knockoffs, eventually they ended in the trash due the software not being compatible with OS upgrades so after a while I went and paid a little extra for the real thing and have had no problems since.
Just in case I took a Arduino One and programmed it to be a programmer and tested it and it worked just fine with Windows 10 and since I had quite a few Arduinos I left it ready to go as a backup.
With both types of programmers I use AVR Studio software and all is well, mostly I program ATTINY85 devices for use with SoftRocks Radios but occasionally someone wants a ATMEGA328P programmed to be used as an Arduino.
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On 1/3/2018 1:35 AM, TrueBlue wrote: On Tue, Jan 2, 2018 at 05:43 pm, Paul Parks wrote:
I planned for failure and surprisingly was able to program a new
328P last night?for my U3S using an Ardunio, avrdudess
"Planning for failure" is the first sign of maturity.? Planning for failure beyond the direst limits of one's current imagination is the first sign of the Wisdom of Age.? Seems to me, anyhow.
The mystery programmer I had foisted off on me on eBay instead of the USBasp I ordered has not responded to further experimentation and remains useless as of 02JAN2018.? I do not look to any happier outcome than a refund.
The Arduino/AVRdudess/DuPont-jumpers approach looks really sensible to me (which doesn't in itself guarantee it will actually /work/, of course) and I have all the stuff already.
I expect that the introduction of the new FT8-capable U3S firmware will generate about as much traffic as that of the QCX, so we'll have plenty to discuss then. [sigh!]
_._,_._,_
--
Cecil - k5nwa
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Bob,
Excellent catch: -------- For the 328P I used : L?0x62, H 0xD9, E 0xFF.? Several others have discussed this in the message forum - all good information.
Are you sure?? Those look more like the 'blank' 328's default fuse settings.? For a start, the low fuse 0x62 uses the internal 8MHz clock ... the U3S will appear to run, but the calibration and possibly the UTC clock will be out.??Try? L = 0xF7??? H = 0xD9 ?? E = 0xFC?73, Bob? ZL1RS-------- Those are what I used and I can verify the boot up display appears correct.
However, it may not work.? I will have time to test in a few days.
I just did not want to break a working U3S, so tried a blank chip.??
Regards,
Dave W4VU
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Hello Cecil / all
Wednesday, January 3, 2018
No joy, I cannot get the programmers, either Extreme Burner or
another Chinese programme called progisp1.72 to see the new virgin
Atmega 328 PU processors no matter what I try. Both see, read and
write the similarly marked QRP Labs programmed ones, and will
re-write updated firmware to them. At a loss as to why new chips are
not even seen, let alone be able to be read or written... Black art!
Thanks, any other ideas welcome, I can sense the frustration building
and can see why others have spent hours on these things :)
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
I have a real AVR Programmer, actually two of them. Over the years I
have had various Chinese knockoffs, eventually they ended in the trash
due the software not being compatible with OS upgrades so after a while
I went and paid a little extra for the real thing and have had no
problems since. Just in case I took a Arduino One and programmed it to be a programmer
and tested it and it worked just fine with Windows 10 and since I had
quite a few Arduinos I left it ready to go as a backup. With both types of programmers I use AVR Studio software and all is
well, mostly I program ATTINY85 devices for use with SoftRocks Radios
but occasionally someone wants a ATMEGA328P programmed to be used as an
Arduino. -- 2E0ILY Best regards, Chris mailto:chris@...
--
Best regards, Chris Wilson (2E0ILY)
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Where did you get the new chips? Are you sure they're not counterfeit parts?
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On Wed, Jan 3, 2018 at 9:59 AM, Chris Wilson <chris@...> wrote: Hello Cecil / all
Wednesday, January 3, 2018
No joy, I cannot get the programmers, either Extreme Burner or
another Chinese programme called progisp1.72 to see the new virgin
Atmega 328 PU processors no matter what I try. Both see, read and
write the similarly marked QRP Labs programmed ones, and will
re-write updated firmware to them. At a loss as to why new chips are
not even seen, let alone be able to be read or written... Black art!
Thanks, any other ideas welcome, I can sense the frustration building
and can see why others have spent hours on these things :)
I have a real AVR Programmer, actually two of them. Over the years I
have had various Chinese knockoffs, eventually they ended in the trash
due the software not being compatible with OS upgrades so after a while
I went and paid a little extra for the real thing and have had no
problems since. Just in case I took a Arduino One and programmed it to be a programmer
and tested it and it worked just fine with Windows 10 and since I had
quite a few Arduinos I left it ready to go as a backup. With both types of programmers I use AVR Studio software and all is
well, mostly I program ATTINY85 devices for use with SoftRocks Radios
but occasionally someone wants a ATMEGA328P programmed to be used as an
Arduino.
--
2E0ILY
Best regards,
Chris mailto:chris@...
--
Best regards, Chris Wilson (2E0ILY)
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Hello Shirley,
From RS Components genuine Atmel ones, so I guess they are 100% legit?
Wednesday, January 3, 2018
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Where did you get the new chips? Are you sure they're not counterfeit parts? -- 2E0ILY Best regards, Chris mailto:chris@...
--
Best regards, Chris Wilson (2E0ILY)
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If you can see and program the provided chip but can't program a new one then the next question is where did you get those devices? If you bought them from eBay or one of the other Chinese vendors then most likely you got chips that are not what they claim or are programmed with the programming pin disabled so they can not be re-programmed.
The ATTINY 85 chips I program for use with SoftRocks requires that the reset pin which is used in programming to be disabled so if I program it once, it cannot be programmed again. It takes a special "high voltage" programmer to restore the device back to be able to re-program them.
I would try getting a brand new chip from a reliable source.
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On 1/3/2018 8:59 AM, Chris Wilson wrote: Hello Cecil / all
Wednesday, January 3, 2018
No joy, I cannot get the programmers, either Extreme Burner or
another Chinese programme called progisp1.72 to see the new virgin
Atmega 328 PU processors no matter what I try. Both see, read and
write the similarly marked QRP Labs programmed ones, and will
re-write updated firmware to them. At a loss as to why new chips are
not even seen, let alone be able to be read or written... Black art!
Thanks, any other ideas welcome, I can sense the frustration building
and can see why others have spent hours on these things :)
I have a real AVR Programmer, actually two of them. Over the years I
have had various Chinese knockoffs, eventually they ended in the trash
due the software not being compatible with OS upgrades so after a while
I went and paid a little extra for the real thing and have had no
problems since. Just in case I took a Arduino One and programmed it to be a programmer
and tested it and it worked just fine with Windows 10 and since I had
quite a few Arduinos I left it ready to go as a backup. With both types of programmers I use AVR Studio software and all is
well, mostly I program ATTINY85 devices for use with SoftRocks Radios
but occasionally someone wants a ATMEGA328P programmed to be used as an
Arduino.
--
Cecil - k5nwa
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This might be useful Dave
...
I tried those 'default' Fuse settings (L?0x62,
H 0xD9, E 0xFF).? Indeed the U3S boot up display appears, but the UTC time display
runs very slowly, about 8 seconds for the
seconds digit on the display to increment.? The GPS info does not display.?
A Low Fuse
setting of 0xF7
is what came in my
original U3S (as supplied in mid-2015).?
According
to an , a Low Fuse setting of 0x62 will invoke the
internal 8 MHz RC clock oscillator
and divide the clock internally
by 8.? A
slow time display is
therefore not surprising.? 0xF7
is the correct Low Fuse setting as per
Alan's
summary.?
As a matter of interest, I
checked the Low Fuse
settings in the ATmega328(p) ICs supplied
in QRP-Labs
VFO and QCX ... both of them also use a
20MHz external clock
crystal for the ATmega328(p), and both of
them also had 0xF7 set as the Low
Fuse.
A High Fuse
setting of 0xD9 is what came in my original U3S.? The
VFO and QCX both use 0xD1 for the High Fuse which,
according to the on-line Fuse calculator, will "Preserve
EEPROM memory through the Chip Erase
cycle".? This would be useful not to
loose the
myriad of settings when upgrading
those two units.?
Alan's
summary shows one used a
High Fuse setting of
0xDF.? According to the Fuse
calculator that will
change the Boot
Flash section size
and the Boot start
address.? I
tried this
High Fuse
setting in an
already
programmed U3S,
it appeared to
have no effect
but YMMV.? The
notes
at the bottom
of the on-line
Fuse
calculator
page are worth
reading, especially
the 6th
one
down which
relates to the
High Fuse
settings and
the trouble that
a wrong one
will cause.
An
Extended Fuse setting of
0xFC is what came in my
original U3S.? The Extended
Fuse controls the 'Brown-out
detection' setting used by
the U3S, and 0xFC sets that
level to 4.3V.? A setting
of 0xFF
will disable that
function.? This will not
prevent the U3S from
working, but could result
in erroneous
operation with low supply
voltage or after a brief
dip in the supply
voltage.? I suspect that
the forum posts related to
'my U3S resets when it starts
to transmit' is the
Brown-out detection
in operation ...
their weak power
supply's output
voltage dips below
4.3V with the extra
current required as
the U3S starts to TX
and the brown-out
detection stops
the ATmega328(p)
... the U3S
stops
transmitting ...
the supply
current drawn
reduces ... the
supply voltage
comes back above
4.3V ... and
the U3S
starts up
again.? The
VFO and QCX
also use a 5V
supply on the
ATmega328(p)
so it comes as
no surprise
that the
Extended Fuse
setting in
those units is
also 0xFC.? But
it should be
noted that a
verification
error can
appear with
Extended Fuse
of 0xFC while
using some
programming
software ...
I
use eXtreme
Burner and
don't see
that
effect, so ???
?
Apparently an
Extended Fuse
of
0x04 works
for the effected
programming
software, and
the
on-line Fuse
calculator
indicates that
this value
will also
invoke the
required
4.3V Brown-out
detection
level.
73,
Bob? ZL1RS
P.S.? I'm not an
AVR expert, just commenting on what
I see when experimenting here on the work bench.
On 4/01/2018 1:56 AM, Paul Parks wrote:
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Show quoted text
Bob,
Excellent catch:
--------
For
the 328P I used : L?0x62, H 0xD9, E 0xFF.? Several others
have discussed this in the message forum - all good
information.
Are
you sure?? Those look more like the 'blank' 328's default
fuse settings.? For a start, the low fuse 0x62 uses the
internal 8MHz clock ... the U3S will appear to run, but the
calibration and possibly the UTC clock will be out.??
Try?
L = 0xF7??? H = 0xD9 ?? E = 0xFC?
73,
Bob? ZL1RS
--------
Those
are what I used and I can verify the boot up display appears
correct.
However,
it may not work.? I will have time to test in a few days.
I
just did not want to break a working U3S, so tried a blank
chip.??
Regards,
Dave
W4VU
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No joy, I cannot get the programmers, either Extreme Burner or
another Chinese programme called progisp1.72 to see the new virgin
Atmega 328 PU processors no matter what I try. Chris, Is there the option to ignore the chip identity? Not with a 328 but Averdudess would not verify a chip's ID but programmed OK when I ticked the "Ignore" button. (I normally use Khazama with a USBASP, not sure if that can ignore an ID check.) 73 Alan G4ZFQ
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Hello Cecil,
The new chips came direct from RS Components and are Atmel branded, as
genuine as I can possibly ascertain. I am trying to programme then
*INSIDE* a working U3S, powered up, using the six pin header. Ican
update factory QRP Labs chips, but still unable to even get two
hardware devices to even see a new chip. I have downloaded AVRDude and
AVRdudess and will have another go. is there any benefit from having
the chip isolated from the U3S on a breadboard? Thanks everyone, it's
now become a challenge to do this :)
Wednesday, January 3, 2018
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
If you can see and program the provided chip but can't program a new one
then the next question is where did you get those devices? If you bought
them from eBay or one of the other Chinese vendors then most likely you
got chips that are not what they claim or are programmed with the
programming pin disabled so they can not be re-programmed. The ATTINY 85 chips I program for use with SoftRocks requires that the
reset pin which is used in programming to be disabled so if I program it
once, it cannot be programmed again. It takes a special "high voltage"
programmer to restore the device back to be able to re-program them. I would try getting a brand new chip from a reliable source. -- 2E0ILY Best regards, Chris mailto:chris@...
--
Best regards, Chris Wilson (2E0ILY)
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It occurs to me that you might find answers to these more advanced questions here:
This seems to be a pretty heavy source of the tech.? Over my head, anyway.
As always, good luck!
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Klaus Beckers
TrueBlue
Wes WB7BR
Shirley Dulcey KE1L