Using the rail to determine end of stairway (was Stair markings)
HI there Robert!? I love your insights about using your foot to find the end of the stairway.? That can indeed be very effective!? I had to smile as it reminded me of walking in total darkness in China along one of the narrow ledges that are on each side of a muddy, yucky road.? I used the "tai chi walk" I had just learned the day? before, keeping my weight on my back leg until I could be sure I hadn't reached the end of the ledge (described at ).
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Meanwhile, I stress to my students that the railing is great for providing support, but they should never use it to determine where the end of the stairway is.? There are too many instances where the railing ends one or more steps before the end.? I have pictures of some of the examples I've seen at? - one is inside one of our congressional buildings in Washington, DC and one is at Gallaudet University, and my friend let me take a picture of her descending a stairway at a restaurant where we were having dinner with my son Stephan.
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So it's important that we teach our students NOT to use the railing for anything but support.
?
-- Dona Sauerburger
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On 12/02/2023 7:13 PM EST Robert T. Sirvage <robert.sirvage@...> wrote:
?
?
Hello all,,??
?
This is my first submission to this forum after having been following different threads quietly.??
One thing that interests?me is the process of developing standards and codification.? ?And this thread caught my attention as it started with question about there should be visual marking on each steps or just the first and last one?? ?And I appreciate the way discussions have turned out here..??
?
I have gotten involved in a few projects that would contribute to formulation?of standard sand codes.? ? And I do operate from a theoretical?framework which insist real-world experience as a starting point.? ? Before I throw some weights on either approach, I want to make a comment on the scope of this discussion.??
?
Like the way codes and standards documents are being structured,? I think we need to step back to consider the scope of this discussion which seems to be limited to vision alone.?
?
Some personal disclosure here..? I am one with a kind of vision condition, at the moment retaining some residual vision.. Am able to discern colours, distance, and understand depth with vision alone.??
?
When all of you are discussing.? ?I find myself reflecting on my experience of walking down stairs and up.? ?
?
1. When I have?arrived?at the end of the stairway (or landing as they call it).? I would touch the rail..? Not necessarily grasping it..? Just touching to retain something that would inform me that there would be more steps ahead (Either way).? ??
?
2. While I am in touch with rail as a reliable cue that would inform me that there is more step ahead and that I am approaching to the?last step as it usually?happen when I get sense that I have reached the end of rail.? Then....? My kinesthetic memory would kick in.? As I understand that the height of each step is pretty much standardized.? ?Ranging between 4 to 7 inches.? ?Even through I can clearly see those visual markers as they sometimes?grab my attention but visual cue alone does nothing to inform about?the height of each step..? So usually, while being in contact with the rail,? either tip of my shoe would lightly feel up the first step (If going up).? Conversely,? My heel would descend slowly before landing top of second step (If going down0. n way my kinesthetic capability can take note of how deep it..? After that first step..? My body will know how much I need to raise or lower my legs for each steps front of me.? ? ??
?
So my sharing of the experience of walking down and up stairs is a demonstration of practice. using senses which often escape the discussion scope when talking about visual markers for steps.? ?And it seem that the vision being first identified as being a problem but tries to limit solution?in visual cue.? ? Without consideration for senses that are being available and already have been in use.? ?Make sense?? ? That's my general peeves when reading documents that offer guidance on standard and codes.?
Yes.. clearly as some have pointed out that this is intended for those with 'low vision'.? Not Blind.? ?So I will mention some merit for those visual marker.?
?
1.? It can inform someone that there is a stairway from a distance.? ? ?
2. It can inform sighted who have full range vision when one reaches last step.? ?Sighted as someone who have full vision range.. as in being able to pick these cues from periphery field without having to tilt one's head downward too much.??
?
That's it..? ?It does not help much with the process of walking along the stairway..? Nor can it offer important cues as to how tall each step are..? ?It is not possible.??
?
As?O&M trainer..? I would cringe at the existence of visual markers on each step because they have?misled and continue to mislead numbers of Blind and low vision people, especially those with low vision that these are there to prevent them from falling or tripping as long as they use their residual vision to catch each of them from start to end.? ? I would like this person to understand that there are more reliable and safe ways of going up and down stair - such as retaining architectural cues such as maintaining contact with rail and train to how to do kinesthetic scan (To pick up the information about steps) and kinesthetic?memory. (muscle memory) to go along each step?with ease.? ?
?
With it being said..? ? Now we are leave to consider the usefulness of having steps marked for each steps?
I think that from a cognitive-processing?perspective -? ? This is a question?about our general expectation for architecture as? being third person..? ? Third person as something that could be retained as cues that offer support or sustain..? ? ?
Imagine the question about which - first. and last marker or each?steps?could be translated as message that achtitectural as third person would communicate to you as you inhabit or move through space.??
?
"Start, Re-calibrate?then carry on until next as being the last one then again re-calibrate".?
OR
?"HERE, here, here, Hopping between each one until there is no more as the pattern?ends".?
?
I think we know which offers the sublimity that one needs to fully utilize one's body.? ?As former seem to be focussing on the process as being transitional in essence.? Which is consistent with the essence of stairway - a transition.? Message should be about transition.? ? While latter one is making it being about the steps itself., drawing one's attention to it without really offeringw anything essential for one to get through the process.?
?
Now.? One things i would like to discuss about in order to expand that line of thinking is -? ?landing area..? and space that lead to stairway..? I think it is the area that is worth conversation.? ?These landing areas would inform one that one is approaching the stairway.? ? ?And how these features offer more sublime transition and consistency.? ?How the texture of flooring facilitates one to move the body in way it naturally makes contact with features that run in parallel with stairways such as rails.? Does they feel nice?? ?Often not..? It is often steel and hold..? ?And there is hygienic concern about grasing rail completely..? (That's why I said contact, not grasp completely earlier).? Could rail itself be re-conceptualized?? ??
?
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On Fri, Dec 1, 2023 at 10:40?PM Kelly Phillips < saipantvi@...> wrote:
Meg,?
This is very helpful. It would be good if this could be universally recommended on O&M reports.?
?
Best,
Kelly
?
On Thu, Nov 30, 2023 at 4:39?PM Meg Robertson via <mobilitymeg= [email protected]> wrote:
There?is a new rule from the US Access Board which will require contrasted tread edges on stairs Final Rule: Accessibility Guidelines for Pedestrian Facilities in the Public Right-of-Way
The leading edge of each step tread and top landing must be marked by a 1-inch (25 mm) wide stripe (R408.6). The stripe must contrast visually with the rest of the step tread or circulation path surface, either light-on-dark or dark-on-light. In adopting a requirement for contrast striping, the Board notes that a 1- to 2-inch stripe of contrasting color (either dark-on-light or light-on dark) is required by American National Standard (ANSI) through adoption of international building codes (IBC) to help users distinguish each step.]?(“Accessible and Usable Buildings and Facilities,” American National Standard (2009): 41, access from ANSI A117.1 (2009): Accessible and Usable Buildings and Facilities)
?
Paint works better than tape.? Not sure what the Reseach shows about placing the contrast on the first and last stair.? I don’t think that there is any.? Having contrast on each stairs helps with depth perception?
On Nov 30, 2023, at 8:00?AM, Erin Buckley < Ebuckley@...> wrote:
Hello,?
I am a COMS on Boston's north shore. I am curious about what you usually recommend for stair markings in public schools. I have heard of 2 schools of thought: marking the edge of ALL stairs with high-contrast paint or tape, and marking only the first and last stair.?
What are your thoughts and reasons behind them? Do you have any positive and/or negative experiences with either??
Thanks in advance!
Erin Buckley
?
?
?
?
?
--
Robert T. Sirvage
|
Hello all,,??
This is my first submission to this forum after having been following different threads quietly.?? One thing that interests?me is the process of developing standards and codification.? ?And this thread caught my attention as it started with question about there should be visual marking on each steps or just the first and last one?? ?And I appreciate the way discussions have turned out here..?? ?
I have gotten involved in a few projects that would contribute to formulation?of standard sand codes.? ? And I do operate from a theoretical?framework which insist real-world experience as a starting point.? ? Before I throw some weights on either approach, I want to make a comment on the scope of this discussion.??
Like the way codes and standards documents are being structured,? I think we need to step back to consider the scope of this discussion which seems to be limited to vision alone.?
Some personal disclosure here..? I am one with a kind of vision condition, at the moment retaining some residual vision.. Am able to discern colours, distance, and understand depth with vision alone.??
When all of you are discussing.? ?I find myself reflecting on my experience of walking down stairs and up.? ?
1. When I have?arrived?at the end of the stairway (or landing as they call it).? I would touch the rail..? Not necessarily grasping it..? Just touching to retain something that would inform me that there would be more steps ahead (Either way).? ??
2. While I am in touch with rail as a reliable cue that would inform me that there is more step ahead and that I am approaching to the?last step as it usually?happen when I get sense that I have reached the end of rail.? Then....? My kinesthetic memory would kick in.? As I understand that the height of each step is pretty much standardized.? ?Ranging between 4 to 7 inches.? ?Even through I can clearly see those visual markers as they sometimes?grab my attention but visual cue alone does nothing to inform about?the height of each step..? So usually, while being in contact with the rail,? either tip of my shoe would lightly feel up the first step (If going up).? Conversely,? My heel would descend slowly before landing top of second step (If going down0. n way my kinesthetic capability can take note of how deep it..? After that first step..? My body will know how much I need to raise or lower my legs for each steps front of me.? ? ??
So my sharing of the experience of walking down and up stairs is a demonstration of practice. using senses which often escape the discussion scope when talking about visual markers for steps.? ?And it seem that the vision being first identified as being a problem but tries to limit solution?in visual cue.? ? Without consideration for senses that are being available and already have been in use.? ?Make sense?? ? That's my general peeves when reading documents that offer guidance on standard and codes.?
Yes.. clearly as some have pointed out that this is intended for those with 'low vision'.? Not Blind.? ?So I will mention some merit for those visual marker.?
1.? It can inform someone that there is a stairway from a distance.? ? ? 2. It can inform sighted who have full range vision when one reaches last step.? ?Sighted as someone who have full vision range.. as in being able to pick these cues from periphery field without having to tilt one's head downward too much.??
That's it..? ?It does not help much with the process of walking along the stairway..? Nor can it offer important cues as to how tall each step are..? ?It is not possible.??
As?O&M trainer..? I would cringe at the existence of visual markers on each step because they have?misled and continue to mislead numbers of Blind and low vision people, especially those with low vision that these are there to prevent them from falling or tripping as long as they use their residual vision to catch each of them from start to end.? ? I would like this person to understand that there are more reliable and safe ways of going up and down stair - such as retaining architectural cues such as maintaining contact with rail and train to how to do kinesthetic scan (To pick up the information about steps) and kinesthetic?memory. (muscle memory) to go along each step?with ease.? ?
With it being said..? ? Now we are leave to consider the usefulness of having steps marked for each steps? I think that from a cognitive-processing?perspective -? ? This is a question?about our general expectation for architecture as? being third person..? ? Third person as something that could be retained as cues that offer support or sustain..? ? ? Imagine the question about which - first. and last marker or each?steps?could be translated as message that achtitectural as third person would communicate to you as you inhabit or move through space.??
"Start, Re-calibrate?then carry on until next as being the last one then again re-calibrate".? OR ?"HERE, here, here, Hopping between each one until there is no more as the pattern?ends".?
I think we know which offers the sublimity that one needs to fully utilize one's body.? ?As former seem to be focussing on the process as being transitional in essence.? Which is consistent with the essence of stairway - a transition.? Message should be about transition.? ? While latter one is making it being about the steps itself., drawing one's attention to it without really offeringw anything essential for one to get through the process.?
Now.? One things i would like to discuss about in order to expand that line of thinking is -? ?landing area..? and space that lead to stairway..? I think it is the area that is worth conversation.? ?These landing areas would inform one that one is approaching the stairway.? ? ?And how these features offer more sublime transition and consistency.? ?How the texture of flooring facilitates one to move the body in way it naturally makes contact with features that run in parallel with stairways such as rails.? Does they feel nice?? ?Often not..? It is often steel and hold..? ?And there is hygienic concern about grasing rail completely..? (That's why I said contact, not grasp completely earlier).? Could rail itself be re-conceptualized?? ??
?
On Fri, Dec 1, 2023 at 10:40?PM Kelly Phillips < saipantvi@...> wrote: Meg,? This is very helpful. It would be good if this could be universally recommended on O&M reports.?
Best, Kelly
On Thu, Nov 30, 2023 at 4:39?PM Meg Robertson via <mobilitymeg= [email protected]> wrote: There?is a new rule from the US Access Board which will require contrasted tread edges on stairs Final Rule: Accessibility Guidelines for Pedestrian Facilities in the Public Right-of-Way The leading edge of each step tread and top landing must be marked by a 1-inch (25 mm) wide stripe (R408.6). The stripe must contrast visually with the rest of the step tread or circulation path surface, either light-on-dark or dark-on-light. In adopting a requirement for contrast striping, the Board notes that a 1- to 2-inch stripe of contrasting color (either dark-on-light or light-on dark) is required by American National Standard (ANSI) through adoption of international building codes (IBC) to help users distinguish each step.]?(“Accessible and Usable Buildings and Facilities,” American National Standard (2009): 41, access from ANSI A117.1 (2009): Accessible and Usable Buildings and Facilities)
Paint works better than tape.? Not sure what the Reseach shows about placing the contrast on the first and last stair.? I don’t think that there is any.? Having contrast on each stairs helps with depth perception? On Nov 30, 2023, at 8:00?AM, Erin Buckley < Ebuckley@...> wrote:
Hello,?
I am a COMS on Boston's north shore. I am curious about what you usually recommend for stair markings in public schools. I have heard of 2 schools of thought: marking the edge of ALL stairs with high-contrast paint or tape, and marking only the first and last stair.?
What are your thoughts and reasons behind them? Do you have any positive and/or negative experiences with either??
Thanks in advance!
Erin Buckley
|
Meg,? This is very helpful. It would be good if this could be universally recommended on O&M reports.?
Best, Kelly
On Thu, Nov 30, 2023 at 4:39?PM Meg Robertson via <mobilitymeg= [email protected]> wrote: There?is a new rule from the US Access Board which will require contrasted tread edges on stairs Final Rule: Accessibility Guidelines for Pedestrian Facilities in the Public Right-of-Way The leading edge of each step tread and top landing must be marked by a 1-inch (25 mm) wide stripe (R408.6). The stripe must contrast visually with the rest of the step tread or circulation path surface, either light-on-dark or dark-on-light. In adopting a requirement for contrast striping, the Board notes that a 1- to 2-inch stripe of contrasting color (either dark-on-light or light-on dark) is required by American National Standard (ANSI) through adoption of international building codes (IBC) to help users distinguish each step.]?(“Accessible and Usable Buildings and Facilities,” American National Standard (2009): 41, access from ANSI A117.1 (2009): Accessible and Usable Buildings and Facilities)
Paint works better than tape.? Not sure what the Reseach shows about placing the contrast on the first and last stair.? I don’t think that there is any.? Having contrast on each stairs helps with depth perception? On Nov 30, 2023, at 8:00?AM, Erin Buckley < Ebuckley@...> wrote:
Hello,?
I am a COMS on Boston's north shore. I am curious about what you usually recommend for stair markings in public schools. I have heard of 2 schools of thought: marking the edge of ALL stairs with high-contrast paint or tape, and marking only the first and last stair.?
What are your thoughts and reasons behind them? Do you have any positive and/or negative experiences with either??
Thanks in advance!
Erin Buckley
|
SOMA O&M Conference October 26-29, 2024 - call for papers!
We're very excited to announce that our next conference of the Southeastern O&M Association (SOMA) will be at the beautiful Embassy Suites by Hilton in Huntsville, Alabama!? Part of the pre-conference program includes an experience at NASA's Space Camp (where many of our students have gone) and a visit to the birthplace of Helen Keller and see the water pump where she learned her first word.? More details are at
?
We know you have ideas and information to share -- the SOMA audience is always enthusiastic and receptive, especially for folks who've never presented before! - so put your thoughts together and send them to us in the .? As usual, the program will emphasize hands-on experiences and practical information, like we had last year (see a list of the amazing activities?).?
?
If you’d like to help organize the conference or join the Program Committee and meet / work with enthusiastic folks, let us know.
?
CALL FOR PAPERS:?
Link:?
DEADLINE January 10, 2024
?
Can't wait to see you in Huntsville!
?
SOMA Team -?
Karen Walker
Eileen Bischof
Dee Reckers
Dona Sauerburger
|
Re: cane grip improvements
Here is a Youtube video showing a sample of what I mentioned and there can be different
brands.? I think at the workshop it was wrapped around a grip and molded to the person's hand and then another piece was put over the pointer to help with the grip.?
Is anyone using this material??
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I have this big memory of a workshop I attended where they had some thing that you could form like putty that would dry hard so that you could make it fit the person‘s hand in the way that would make it easier to grip. If I can think over find more about
that, I’ll let you know.
On Dec 1, 2023, at 10:43?AM, Jack Mitchell via groups.io <jmitchell@...> wrote:
?
I have two students who have some significant issues with maintaining their grip on the cane handle (rubber golf grip) due in one case to a stroke and in the other case to a muscular condition similar to MS.??
I had someone suggest using bicycle handlebar tape to expand the grip.? As I've been looking at options. the thickest tapes also seem to be designed for reducing vibration from the handlebar, but for use on a mobility cane, that'ss something that we would want
to minimize to avoid reducing sensitivity to cane feedback.
Does anyone has recommendations for a particular brand / type of tape.? Or for something else to use to build up the grip a bit or otherwise improve grip on the cane?
Jack
????
Jack Mitchell, M.S.Ed, COMS, CVRT
Orientation & Mobility Specialist
I am in the office
Monday - Thursday?
Jack Mitchell
Orientation & Mobility Specialist |
|
|
? |
|
920 West Gate City Blvd ? Greensboro ? NC 27403 |
|
Phone: 336-544-3711 |
|
email: jmitchell@... |
|
Customer Service 1-800-909-7086 |
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Re: cane grip improvements
I have used thermoplastic pellets to make cane grips molded to the user’s hand.?
?
Coretta Cooper, COMS? (she/her)
Orientation and Mobility Instructor
State of Maine Division for the Blind and Visually Impaired
?
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From: [email protected] < [email protected]> On Behalf Of
Patty Arnold via groups.io
Sent: Friday, December 1, 2023 1:51 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [OandM] cane grip improvements
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EXTERNAL: This email originated from outside of the State of Maine Mail System. Do not click links or open attachments unless you recognize the sender
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I have this big memory of a workshop I attended where they had some thing that you could form like putty that would dry hard so that you could make it fit the person‘s hand in the way that would make it easier to grip. If I can think over
find more about that, I’ll let you know.
On Dec 1, 2023, at 10:43?AM, Jack Mitchell via groups.io <jmitchell@...> wrote:
?
I have two students who have some significant issues with maintaining their grip on the cane handle (rubber golf grip) due in one case to a stroke and in the other
case to a muscular condition similar to MS.??
I had someone suggest using bicycle handlebar tape to expand the grip.? As I've been looking at options. the thickest tapes also seem to be designed for reducing
vibration from the handlebar, but for use on a mobility cane, that'ss something that we would want to minimize to avoid reducing sensitivity to cane feedback.
Does anyone has recommendations for a particular brand / type of tape.? Or for something else to use to build up the grip a bit or otherwise improve grip on the cane?
Jack Mitchell, M.S.Ed, COMS, CVRT
Orientation & Mobility Specialist
?
I am in the office
Monday - Thursday?
?
|
Jack Mitchell
Orientation & Mobility Specialist
|
|
|
?
|
|
920 West Gate City Blvd ? Greensboro ? NC 27403
|
|
Phone: 336-544-3711
|
|
email:
jmitchell@...
|
|
Customer Service 1-800-909-7086
|
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?
|
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?
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The information contained in this transmission may contain privileged and confidential information, including patient information protected
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If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by reply email and destroy all copies of the original message and any attachments. Please contact us at 336.274-1591 with any questions or concerns.
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Re: cane grip improvements
OTs use a substance that appears like plastic beads and once heated it gels and can be put on a grip and then using the clients had you could form fit it.? You could even use a strip to wrap around his/her finger, etc. to help the grip.? I have some of the
material around but no instructions. It may be thermoplastic pellets.? Maybe ask an OT
I, too, went to a workshop about it but years ago.? I could ask my niece who is an OT if you want:))
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CAUTION: This email originated from outside
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?
I have this big memory of a workshop I attended where they had some thing that you could form like putty that would dry hard so that you could make it fit the person‘s hand in the way that would make it easier to grip. If I can think over find more about
that, I’ll let you know.
On Dec 1, 2023, at 10:43?AM, Jack Mitchell via groups.io <jmitchell@...> wrote:
?
I have two students who have some significant issues with maintaining their grip on the cane handle (rubber golf grip) due in one case to a stroke and in the other case to a muscular condition similar to MS.??
I had someone suggest using bicycle handlebar tape to expand the grip.? As I've been looking at options. the thickest tapes also seem to be designed for reducing vibration from the handlebar, but for use on a mobility cane, that'ss something that we would want
to minimize to avoid reducing sensitivity to cane feedback.
Does anyone has recommendations for a particular brand / type of tape.? Or for something else to use to build up the grip a bit or otherwise improve grip on the cane?
Jack
????
Jack Mitchell, M.S.Ed, COMS, CVRT
Orientation & Mobility Specialist
I am in the office
Monday - Thursday?
Jack Mitchell
Orientation & Mobility Specialist |
|
|
? |
|
920 West Gate City Blvd ? Greensboro ? NC 27403 |
|
Phone: 336-544-3711 |
|
email: jmitchell@... |
|
Customer Service 1-800-909-7086 |
| ? |
|
|
| ? |
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The information contained in this transmission may contain privileged and confidential information, including patient information protected by federal and state privacy laws. It is intended only for the use of the person(s) named above. If you are not the intended
recipient, you are hereby notified that any review, dissemination, distribution, or duplication of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by reply email and destroy all copies of the original
message and any attachments. Please contact us at 336.274-1591 with any questions or concerns.
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Re: cane grip improvements
I was thinking the same thing Michael - rather than a larger grip, something to wrap around to help hold it. ?Brilliant! — Dona ————————— Dona Sauerburger, COMS Certified Orientation and Mobility Specialist for the blind www.sauerburger.org
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On Dec 1, 2023, at 1:54 PM, Michael Byington <ByingtonCOMS@...> wrote:
? This is rather a long shot because my experience was from several years ago, and resulted in limited success. I do not have access to the records about it because they were the property of my employer at the time. I see that you have not gotten any other responses yet, however, so I will tell you what I remember of the relevant situation ? I had a client who had had a stroke and was in a very similar situation to yours. I started looking on adaptive equipment sites that seemed to be targeted to OTs. I found a special glove that had straps that could be velcroid around the cane and the person’s hand. I had to get its use approved by our OT department. They eventually said it would be worth a try, but by the time I got everything approved so I could order the device, the client had another stroke and ultimately died, so I never found out if it would work as well as I thought it could. Here are a few thoughts about what I think you are looking for. The glove was very thin. It did not appear to me to be something that would hamper the receipt of input from the cane significantly. Also, it has always been my bias that the golf grip, in and of itself, can hamper information provided through the cane., not enough to be a problem for most users, but for someone who has had a stroke, diabetic neuropathy, or other conditions impacting tactile sensitivity, I think that the golf grip is perhaps not the best option. If the client would have lived, I would have paired the thin glove featuring the Velcro with an NFB type plastic, fiberglass, or carbon fiber handle. Michael Byington, Certified Orientation and Mobility Specialist President of Kansas Association for the Blind and Visually Impaired, Inc. Membership Coordinator for Friends In Art of the American Council of the Blind 712 S. Kansas Avenue Suite 414D-F Topeka, Kansas 66603 (785) 221-7111 ByingtonCOMS@... ? ? I have two students who have some significant issues with maintaining their grip on the cane handle (rubber golf grip) due in one case to a stroke and in the other case to a muscular condition similar to MS.?? I had someone suggest using bicycle handlebar tape to expand the grip.? As I've been looking at options. the thickest tapes also seem to be designed for reducing vibration from the handlebar, but for use on a mobility cane, that'ss something that we would want to minimize to avoid reducing sensitivity to cane feedback. Does anyone has recommendations for a particular brand / type of tape.? Or for something else to use to build up the grip a bit or otherwise improve grip on the cane? Jack Mitchell, M.S.Ed, COMS, CVRT Orientation & Mobility Specialist ? I am in the office Monday - Thursday? ? Jack Mitchell
Orientation & Mobility Specialist | | ? | 920 West Gate City Blvd ? Greensboro ? NC 27403 | Phone: 336-544-3711 | email: jmitchell@... | Customer Service 1-800-909-7086 | ? | | | ? | The information contained in this transmission may contain privileged and confidential information, including patient information protected by federal and state privacy laws. It is intended only for the use of the person(s) named above. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any review, dissemination, distribution, or duplication of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by reply email and destroy all copies of the original message and any attachments. Please contact us at 336.274-1591 with any questions or concerns. |
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Re: cane grip improvements
This is rather a long shot because my experience was from several years ago, and resulted in limited success. I do not have access to the records about it because they were the property of my employer at the time. I see that you have not gotten any other responses yet, however, so I will tell you what I remember of the relevant situation ? I had a client who had had a stroke and was in a very similar situation to yours. I started looking on adaptive equipment sites that seemed to be targeted to OTs. I found a special glove that had straps that could be velcroid around the cane and the person’s hand. I had to get its use approved by our OT department. They eventually said it would be worth a try, but by the time I got everything approved so I could order the device, the client had another stroke and ultimately died, so I never found out if it would work as well as I thought it could. Here are a few thoughts about what I think you are looking for. The glove was very thin. It did not appear to me to be something that would hamper the receipt of input from the cane significantly. Also, it has always been my bias that the golf grip, in and of itself, can hamper information provided through the cane., not enough to be a problem for most users, but for someone who has had a stroke, diabetic neuropathy, or other conditions impacting tactile sensitivity, I think that the golf grip is perhaps not the best option. If the client would have lived, I would have paired the thin glove featuring the Velcro with an NFB type plastic, fiberglass, or carbon fiber handle. Michael Byington, Certified Orientation and Mobility Specialist President of Kansas Association for the Blind and Visually Impaired, Inc. Membership Coordinator for Friends In Art of the American Council of the Blind 712 S. Kansas Avenue Suite 414D-F Topeka, Kansas 66603 (785) 221-7111 ByingtonCOMS@... ?
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From: [email protected] < [email protected]> On Behalf Of Jack Mitchell Sent: Friday, December 1, 2023 11:43 AM To: [email protected]Subject: [OandM] cane grip improvements ? I have two students who have some significant issues with maintaining their grip on the cane handle (rubber golf grip) due in one case to a stroke and in the other case to a muscular condition similar to MS.?? I had someone suggest using bicycle handlebar tape to expand the grip.? As I've been looking at options. the thickest tapes also seem to be designed for reducing vibration from the handlebar, but for use on a mobility cane, that'ss something that we would want to minimize to avoid reducing sensitivity to cane feedback. Does anyone has recommendations for a particular brand / type of tape.? Or for something else to use to build up the grip a bit or otherwise improve grip on the cane? Jack Mitchell, M.S.Ed, COMS, CVRT Orientation & Mobility Specialist ? I am in the office Monday - Thursday? ? Jack Mitchell
Orientation & Mobility Specialist | | ? | 920 West Gate City Blvd ? Greensboro ? NC 27403 | Phone: 336-544-3711 | email: jmitchell@... | Customer Service 1-800-909-7086 | ? | | | ? | The information contained in this transmission may contain privileged and confidential information, including patient information protected by federal and state privacy laws. It is intended only for the use of the person(s) named above. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any review, dissemination, distribution, or duplication of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by reply email and destroy all copies of the original message and any attachments. Please contact us at 336.274-1591 with any questions or concerns. |
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Re: cane grip improvements
I have this big memory of a workshop I attended where they had some thing that you could form like putty that would dry hard so that you could make it fit the person‘s hand in the way that would make it easier to grip. If I can think over find more about that,
I’ll let you know.
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On Dec 1, 2023, at 10:43?AM, Jack Mitchell via groups.io <jmitchell@...> wrote:
?
I have two students who have some significant issues with maintaining their grip on the cane handle (rubber golf grip) due in one case to a stroke and in the other case to a muscular condition similar to MS.??
I had someone suggest using bicycle handlebar tape to expand the grip.? As I've been looking at options. the thickest tapes also seem to be designed for reducing vibration from the handlebar, but for use on a mobility cane, that'ss something that we would want
to minimize to avoid reducing sensitivity to cane feedback.
Does anyone has recommendations for a particular brand / type of tape.? Or for something else to use to build up the grip a bit or otherwise improve grip on the cane?
Jack
????
Jack Mitchell, M.S.Ed, COMS, CVRT
Orientation & Mobility Specialist
I am in the office
Monday - Thursday?
Jack Mitchell
Orientation & Mobility Specialist |
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920 West Gate City Blvd ? Greensboro ? NC 27403 |
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Phone: 336-544-3711 |
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email: jmitchell@... |
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Customer Service 1-800-909-7086 |
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The information contained in this transmission may contain privileged and confidential information, including patient information protected by federal and state privacy laws. It is intended only for the use of the person(s) named above. If you are not the intended
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Thanks, Meg, for listing the guidelines!!
I’d agree -on all stairs. ?Only had one student request the top step only.
If you are in a school district, they most likely have an ADA compliance staff person and departments that?make modifications.? In our school district, we make a request through the principal and then someone comes out to view the situation according to your
request. They usually paint the stairs. However, one of my recent requests may turn into a stair replacement because the school stairs are so old.?
If this is the process for your school district, TRY and be there when someone comes out to assess the needs because errors can be done. See attachment (of past modifications) where they just painted the whole riser and no contrast for going down the stairs-
that was a redo.? ?This was not what I expected at all, since usually it was a 1- 2 inch stripe on the top and riser. Another example, a PT taped the stairs- not bad but tape can peel and be a tripping hazard if stairs have heavy traffic.? The other picture
is a reconstruction on a school where they put in contrasting stairs- wonderful.??
If I have a school under construction, I go and inquire on the stairs they will be installing. One construction company cheaped out, not installing the stairs ordered despite the building supervisor telling them- that was a redo.
The ADA compliance staff and district painters have been great to work with in our district especially on modifications with staircases that offer slanted walls/overheads where our VI kids could walk into them and with piping in stairwells.?
Good Luck, and hope this is helpful
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I agree with Julie, All the stairs!?
Eileen
On Thu, Nov 30, 2023 at 11:12?AM Julie Henry < jhenry@...> wrote:
ALL of the stairs. I had a high school student with just low enough vision to get around, with the exception of black stairs (with black tactile edges) in a lower light stairwell. He could not see any of the steps and would slip.?
Julie Henry
O&M Specialist
411 W. Front | Tyler, TX | 75702
O:
903.590.4356
?
?
Caution, external email.
Hello,?
I am a COMS on Boston's north shore. I am curious about what you usually recommend for stair markings in public schools. I have heard of 2 schools of thought: marking the edge of ALL stairs with high-contrast paint or tape, and marking only the first and last
stair.?
What are your thoughts and reasons behind them? Do you have any positive and/or negative experiences with either??
Thanks in advance!
Erin Buckley
--
Eileen K. Dashnaw, OTR/L, COMS
42 Priest Road
Salem, New York 12865
?
LEGAL NOTICE
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I have two students who have some significant issues with maintaining their grip on the cane handle (rubber golf grip) due in one case to a stroke and in the other case to a muscular condition similar to MS.??
I had someone suggest using bicycle handlebar tape to expand the grip.? As I've been looking at options. the thickest tapes also seem to be designed for reducing vibration from the handlebar, but for use on a mobility cane, that'ss something that we would want
to minimize to avoid reducing sensitivity to cane feedback.
Does anyone has recommendations for a particular brand / type of tape.? Or for something else to use to build up the grip a bit or otherwise improve grip on the cane?
Jack
????
Jack Mitchell, M.S.Ed, COMS, CVRT
Orientation & Mobility Specialist
I am in the office
Monday - Thursday?
Jack Mitchell
Orientation & Mobility Specialist |
|
|
? |
|
920 West Gate City Blvd ? Greensboro ? NC 27403 |
|
Phone: 336-544-3711 |
|
email: jmitchell@... |
|
Customer Service 1-800-909-7086 |
| ? |
|
|
| ? |
|
The information contained in this transmission may contain privileged and confidential information, including patient information protected by federal and state privacy laws. It is intended only for the use of the person(s) named above. If you are not the intended
recipient, you are hereby notified that any review, dissemination, distribution, or duplication of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by reply email and destroy all copies of the original
message and any attachments. Please contact us at 336.274-1591 with any questions or concerns.
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Thanks Meg! This has been an interesting back and forth.? Lots of interesting commentary.? Ruth Weinrib, M.Ed., MA, COMS R.Weinrib.COMS@... 617.877.9595
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On Nov 30, 2023, at 4:39?PM, Meg Robertson via groups.io <mobilitymeg@...> wrote:
? There?is a new rule from the US Access Board which will require contrasted tread edges on stairs Final Rule: Accessibility Guidelines for Pedestrian Facilities in the Public Right-of-Way The leading edge of each step tread and top landing must be marked by a 1-inch (25 mm) wide stripe (R408.6). The stripe must contrast visually with the rest of the step tread or circulation path surface, either light-on-dark or dark-on-light. In adopting a requirement for contrast striping, the Board notes that a 1- to 2-inch stripe of contrasting color (either dark-on-light or light-on dark) is required by American National Standard (ANSI) through adoption of international building codes (IBC) to help users distinguish each step.]?(“Accessible and Usable Buildings and Facilities,” American National Standard (2009): 41, access from ANSI A117.1 (2009): Accessible and Usable Buildings and Facilities)
Paint works better than tape. ?Not sure what the Reseach shows about placing the contrast on the first and last stair. ?I don’t think that there is any. ?Having contrast on each stairs helps with depth perception? On Nov 30, 2023, at 8:00?AM, Erin Buckley <Ebuckley@...> wrote:
Hello,?
I am a COMS on Boston's north shore. I am curious about what you usually recommend for stair markings in public schools. I have heard of 2 schools of thought: marking the edge of ALL stairs with high-contrast paint or tape, and marking only the first and last stair.?
What are your thoughts and reasons behind them? Do you have any positive and/or negative experiences with either??
Thanks in advance!
Erin Buckley
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Hooray Meg!
— Christopher J. Tabb, M.A., COMS chris@...Mobile: ?512.660.2750
 Image: ACVREP Digital Badge for COMS
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On Nov 30, 2023, at 2:39?PM, Meg Robertson via groups.io <mobilitymeg@...> wrote:
There?is a new rule from the US Access Board which will require contrasted tread edges on stairs Final Rule: Accessibility Guidelines for Pedestrian Facilities in the Public Right-of-Way The leading edge of each step tread and top landing must be marked by a 1-inch (25 mm) wide stripe (R408.6). The stripe must contrast visually with the rest of the step tread or circulation path surface, either light-on-dark or dark-on-light. In adopting a requirement for contrast striping, the Board notes that a 1- to 2-inch stripe of contrasting color (either dark-on-light or light-on dark) is required by American National Standard (ANSI) through adoption of international building codes (IBC) to help users distinguish each step.]?(“Accessible and Usable Buildings and Facilities,” American National Standard (2009): 41, access from ANSI A117.1 (2009): Accessible and Usable Buildings and Facilities)
Paint works better than tape. ?Not sure what the Reseach shows about placing the contrast on the first and last stair. ?I don’t think that there is any. ?Having contrast on each stairs helps with depth perception? On Nov 30, 2023, at 8:00?AM, Erin Buckley <Ebuckley@...> wrote:
Hello,?
I am a COMS on Boston's north shore. I am curious about what you usually recommend for stair markings in public schools. I have heard of 2 schools of thought: marking the edge of ALL stairs with high-contrast paint or tape, and marking only the first and last stair.?
What are your thoughts and reasons behind them? Do you have any positive and/or negative experiences with either??
Thanks in advance!
Erin Buckley
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Just as a side note to Michael’s addition of ADAAG, I believe there are different guidance that exist in different states. Like many things, states can go above and beyond a federal standard but must meet the federal minimum. I cannot recall off the top of my head which state was recommending all steps but believe there are some that have building codes that require just the first and last, and others that advise for all steps.
Suffice it to say, it is best to explore building codes adopted in your own state as they may differ, just as many states have their own adoptions of MUTCD.
— Christopher J. Tabb, M.A., COMS chris@...Mobile: ?512.660.2750
 Image: ACVREP Digital Badge for COMS
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On Nov 30, 2023, at 1:50?PM, Michael Byington <ByingtonCOMS@...> wrote:
So far, you have received two differing views from Julie and Ruth. I notice that both views are expressed based on what might happen with a particular student. Julie is writing from her actual experience with a specific student. What this points out to me is that it is impossible to standardize what works best for low vision and legally blind people overall. To a certain extent, the ADAAG gives guidance on percent of contrast, and what colors work best, but when adapting an environment largely for the accommodation of a specific person, I think it is always best to ask the person what she or he thinks will work best for them. I know many low vision people who would answer this question one way, and many others who would answer the other way. More frequently, however, I have found that marking every stair is preferred by a larger cross section of low vision people. This would include myself as a person who is legally blind as well as being a COMS. ? Now I want to comment on the advisability of marking steps to accommodate low vision at all. In my opinion, and in an ideal world, any person who is sufficiently low vision so as to request stair markings should really be using a cane. ?Marking the stairs that they will use most often may accommodate them for routes using those particular stairs, but then that is restricting them to perhaps only attempt to travel safely and independently on the routes that have been ideally marked. Proper use of the long, white cane, or of a dog guide, can allow them to travel independently and be aware of steps anywhere that they want to go. ? While I sincerely believe that travel skills taught to people who are totally blind? can also work very well for people who have low vision, I do support stair markings with high contrast., particularly upon request from a visually impaired person who feels that they need them for a specific, frequently traveled route or area. I would also agree with Julie that iridescent paint is more durable than tape and runs less of a tripping hazard. This is not, after all, an ideal world. Many low vision people prefer to use visual skills even when some additional environmental adaptation is necessary for them to do so independently. Therefore, I have certainly done my share of stair markings. Michael Byington, Certified Orientation and Mobility Specialist President of Kansas Association for the Blind and Visually Impaired, Inc. Membership Coordinator for Friends In Art of the American Council of the Blind 712 S. Kansas Avenue Suite 414D-F Topeka, Kansas 66603 (785) 221-7111 ByingtonCOMS@... ? ? . ? ? Hello,?
I am a COMS on Boston's north shore. I am curious about what you usually recommend for stair markings in public schools. I have heard of 2 schools of thought: marking the edge of ALL stairs with high-contrast paint or tape, and marking only the first and last stair.?
What are your thoughts and reasons behind them? Do you have any positive and/or negative experiences with either??
Thanks in advance!
Erin Buckley
|
There?is a new rule from the US Access Board which will require contrasted tread edges on stairs Final Rule: Accessibility Guidelines for Pedestrian Facilities in the Public Right-of-Way The leading edge of each step tread and top landing must be marked by a 1-inch (25 mm) wide stripe (R408.6). The stripe must contrast visually with the rest of the step tread or circulation path surface, either light-on-dark or dark-on-light. In adopting a requirement for contrast striping, the Board notes that a 1- to 2-inch stripe of contrasting color (either dark-on-light or light-on dark) is required by American National Standard (ANSI) through adoption of international building codes (IBC) to help users distinguish each step.]?(“Accessible and Usable Buildings and Facilities,” American National Standard (2009): 41, access from ANSI A117.1 (2009): Accessible and Usable Buildings and Facilities)
Paint works better than tape. ?Not sure what the Reseach shows about placing the contrast on the first and last stair. ?I don’t think that there is any. ?Having contrast on each stairs helps with depth perception?
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On Nov 30, 2023, at 8:00?AM, Erin Buckley <Ebuckley@...> wrote:
Hello,?
I am a COMS on Boston's north shore. I am curious about what you usually recommend for stair markings in public schools. I have heard of 2 schools of thought: marking the edge of ALL stairs with high-contrast paint or tape, and marking only the first and last stair.?
What are your thoughts and reasons behind them? Do you have any positive and/or negative experiences with either??
Thanks in advance!
Erin Buckley
|
So far, you have received two differing views from Julie and Ruth. I notice that both views are expressed based on what might happen with a particular student. Julie is writing from her actual experience with a specific student. What this points out to me is that it is impossible to standardize what works best for low vision and legally blind people overall. To a certain extent, the ADAAG gives guidance on percent of contrast, and what colors work best, but when adapting an environment largely for the accommodation of a specific person, I think it is always best to ask the person what she or he thinks will work best for them. I know many low vision people who would answer this question one way, and many others who would answer the other way. More frequently, however, I have found that marking every stair is preferred by a larger cross section of low vision people. This would include myself as a person who is legally blind as well as being a COMS. ? Now I want to comment on the advisability of marking steps to accommodate low vision at all. In my opinion, and in an ideal world, any person who is sufficiently low vision so as to request stair markings should really be using a cane. ?Marking the stairs that they will use most often may accommodate them for routes using those particular stairs, but then that is restricting them to perhaps only attempt to travel safely and independently on the routes that have been ideally marked. Proper use of the long, white cane, or of a dog guide, can allow them to travel independently and be aware of steps anywhere that they want to go. ? While I sincerely believe that travel skills taught to people who are totally blind? can also work very well for people who have low vision, I do support stair markings with high contrast., particularly upon request from a visually impaired person who feels that they need them for a specific, frequently traveled route or area. I would also agree with Julie that iridescent paint is more durable than tape and runs less of a tripping hazard. This is not, after all, an ideal world. Many low vision people prefer to use visual skills even when some additional environmental adaptation is necessary for them to do so independently. Therefore, I have certainly done my share of stair markings. Michael Byington, Certified Orientation and Mobility Specialist President of Kansas Association for the Blind and Visually Impaired, Inc. Membership Coordinator for Friends In Art of the American Council of the Blind 712 S. Kansas Avenue Suite 414D-F Topeka, Kansas 66603 (785) 221-7111 ByingtonCOMS@... ? ? . ?
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From: [email protected] < [email protected]> On Behalf Of Erin Buckley Sent: Thursday, November 30, 2023 10:01 AM To: [email protected]Subject: [OandM] Stair markings ? Hello,?
I am a COMS on Boston's north shore. I am curious about what you usually recommend for stair markings in public schools. I have heard of 2 schools of thought: marking the edge of ALL stairs with high-contrast paint or tape, and marking only the first and last stair.?
What are your thoughts and reasons behind them? Do you have any positive and/or negative experiences with either??
Thanks in advance!
Erin Buckley
|
I agree with Julie, All the stairs!? Eileen
On Thu, Nov 30, 2023 at 11:12?AM Julie Henry < jhenry@...> wrote:
ALL of the stairs. I had a high school student with just low enough vision to get around, with the exception of black stairs (with black tactile edges) in a lower light stairwell. He could not see any of the steps and would slip.?
Julie Henry
O&M Specialist
411 W. Front | Tyler, TX | 75702
O: 903.590.4356
?
?
Caution, external email.
Hello,?
I am a COMS on Boston's north shore. I am curious about what you usually recommend for stair markings in public schools. I have heard of 2 schools of thought: marking the edge of ALL stairs with high-contrast paint or tape, and marking only the first and last
stair.?
What are your thoughts and reasons behind them? Do you have any positive and/or negative experiences with either??
Thanks in advance!
Erin Buckley
-- Eileen K. Dashnaw, OTR/L, COMS
42 Priest Road Salem, New York 12865 phone: (518) 260-6186 fax: (518) 854-9540 ? LEGAL NOTICE
This e-mail transmission, with accompanying records, is intended only for the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged information belonging to the sender, including individually identifiable health information subject to the privacy and security provisions of HIPAA. This information may be protected by pertinent privilege(s), e.g., attorney-client, doctor-patient, HIPAA etc., which will be enforced to the fullest extent of the law. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any examination, analysis, disclosure, copying, dissemination, distribution, sharing, or use of the information in this transmission is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message and associated documents in error, please notify the sender immediately for instructions. If this message was received by e-mail, please delete the original message.
--
Eileen K Dashnaw
|
Hi, My experience has been as such: Fluorescent floor paint has worked best. Tape tends to peel up, and can become a trip hazard. It can be personal preference based on the environmental lighting, configuration of the stairs, etc. But I think that top stair and bottom stair of each stair grouping/flight is preferable to every single stair, as that can become visually overwhelming, and harder to visually mark the bottom step.?
Thanks, Ruth
Ruth Weinrib, MA, M.Ed., COMS
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On Nov 30, 2023, at 11:00, Erin Buckley <Ebuckley@...> wrote:
?Hello,?
I am a COMS on Boston's north shore. I am curious about what you usually recommend for stair markings in public schools. I have heard of 2 schools of thought: marking the edge of ALL stairs with high-contrast paint or tape, and marking only the first and last stair.?
What are your thoughts and reasons behind them? Do you have any positive and/or negative experiences with either??
Thanks in advance!
Erin Buckley
|
ALL of the stairs. I had a high school student with just low enough vision to get around, with the exception of black stairs (with black tactile edges) in a lower light stairwell. He could not see any of the steps and would slip.?
Julie Henry
O&M Specialist
411 W. Front | Tyler, TX | 75702
O: 903.590.4356
?
?
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Show quoted text
Caution, external email.
Hello,?
I am a COMS on Boston's north shore. I am curious about what you usually recommend for stair markings in public schools. I have heard of 2 schools of thought: marking the edge of ALL stairs with high-contrast paint or tape, and marking only the first and last
stair.?
What are your thoughts and reasons behind them? Do you have any positive and/or negative experiences with either??
Thanks in advance!
Erin Buckley
|
Chris Tabb