Re: Question about FVA for adults
Aloha! Who is questioning your qualifications? You are not doing a medical assessment but a functional vision assessment. VR staff don’t do vision assessments. There is no other accreditation for this evaluation.? Good luck.?
On Friday, October 27, 2023, 2:41 AM, Amy Downard <adownardtvi@...> wrote: Thanks Chris I agree I’d like to see what type of format or how it differ slightly since I understand it’s two different settings between students and adults so that would be cool if anyone had any framework for functional vision assessments for adults, we do have low vision clinics here with optometrists.?
Thanks again for feedback it’s always appreciated. Aloha, Amy. On Thu, Oct 26, 2023 at 4:29?AM Chris Tabb < chris@...> wrote: Amy,
It would be important to understand the expectations of the requesting party. It may have been they thought you were a CLVT.?
From an education perspective you have all the correct background, though the some in the rehabilitation world may have different beliefs about what they perceive a functional vision evaluation to be.
-- Sent from iPhone 512.660.2750 ?Hi Friends?
As a TVI at school, I have conducted Functional Vision Assessments for 25 years. As an independent contractor I have worked with adults with significant vision loss in the areas of O&M, Tech, Daily Living Skills, Job Coaching and as a presenter/ in-service trainer.? I was recently requested to do a Functional Vision Assessment for an adult, but my credentials were questioned. I didn’t really think about it since I have conducted them for years. Is there another qualification to conduct FVA for adults? I know there are Vocational Rehab teachers for adult agencies, but unsure about assessment area. My students were up to age 22 and I assessed in school, work, home and community settings.?
Thanks in advance for any comments.?
Aloha Amy
|
Hello everyone! John here: ? I have read the many messages on this topic with great interest.? I realize that hearing blind travelers operate within a different realm than do DeafBlind travelers, but perhaps tendrils from the protactile realm can be suggestive. ? For reasons I trust many of you can easily infer, I suggest to most of our DeafBlind students that they find with their cane the curb at an intersection.? By this I mean the part where there’s an actual curb and it is not the curb cut at the corner.? Finding that curb assures us that we’re indeed at a street crossing point and not, for example, at driveway in the middle of a block. ? Touching that curb is a great way to get oriented.? Then, stepping off the corner cut, we suggest veering on purpose slightly to the left or to the right.? The goal here is not to go straight or “aim” for the opposite corner cut.? Rather, the goal is to err somewhat to the side of that, away from traffic and in many cases hitting a part of the curb very near the cut rather than hitting the cut itself.? Upon making contact with the curb or half of it, because it is dipping into the cut, it is easy to setp aside and onto the cut and go on from there. ? Trying to walk straight or to aim precisely for a point in the distance risks veering into the path of oncoming traffic.? We have found with experience that veering on purpose is much more robust, relaxing, and, ironically, if you fail to veer as intended, the result is that you’ve walked straight by accident.? But this mistake rarely happens.? I think we do a great job of veering. ? Take the above for what it’s worth, filtered through what is certainly a different context, for hearing blind travelers. ? Looking forward to any more thoughts here. ? Warmly, John ?
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From: [email protected] < [email protected]> On Behalf Of Diane Brauner via groups.io Sent: Thursday, October 26, 2023 9:38 AM To: [email protected]Subject: Re: [OandM] veering.. ? Hi Madison, I have some thoughts based on many years experience as a COMS; veering is a very common issue! Keep in mind I'm simply brainstorming. Without watching you as you cross a street, it is challenging to identify what is causing you to veer. I’m going to use the terms shorelining/trailing but it could also be touch and drag or 3-point touch (on the sidewalk). Trailing is typically where the cane maintains contact with the wall or grass edge of a sidewalk. Most people use a cane sweep to follow the wall/grass and not trailing, as trailing does not provide protection on the left/other side. - Shorelining/trailing can cause travelers to slightly turn their shoulders slightlyto the right (since typically the cane is trailing on the right side). If your body is even slightly twisted, the traveler will often veer to the right in open spaces.
- Suggestion 1: Check your body alignment by standing with your back against the wall. Your heels, bottom, back, shoulders and head should all touch the wall. If your right shoulder touches but not your left, then you probably have a slight twist to the right. Aligning against the wall will help you “feel” what is a straight body alignment.
- Suggestion 2: Practice walking in a straight line beside a wall without your cane tip arc tapping against the wall. Listen to and use the wall to help you continue straight (echolocation or simply using your senses to be aware that the wall is there). Think about keeping your body in a straight alignment. Then work on traveling in a straight line thru empty space - initially, use an auditory clue and walk to that sound. Practice walking in a straight line down a normal width sidewalk - without your cane tip tapping or bumping into the grass.
- My personal opinion is that trailing/shorelining will cause veering into door ways/hallway intersections inside and into driveways/intersections outside. Unless the traveler is looking for a specific landmark, traveling without trailing/shorelining is best.
- As mentioned by others, having a symmetrical cane arc is also important. Travelers that trail the wall often have less of an arc on the left (away from the wall). A symmetrical cane arc will help you move in a straight line. We teach young students to initially place their left hand on their right wrist to keep their cane/hand in the center of the body, which is helpful for learning to create a symmetrical cane arc. Most adults will choose to have their right hand at the side of their body (more comfortable position!), but then must relearn the cane arc to make a wider sweep on the left side to provide complete coverage and to travel in a straight line.
- Suggestion 1: Ask a friend (or your O&M) to stand in front of you, facing you, with their feet slightly wider than your shoulders. You can gently sweep your cane from side to side using your normal cane arc. Does your cane tip touch both feet? Have the same force when it comes in contact with both feet? This is also good practice to understand if your cane arc is too wide, not wide enough, or not symmetrical.
- Lining up with curbs: Most of the curbs in my area will NOT give a good line of direction for a straight street crossing. This is particularly true in small towns/suburbs. Many of the curbs are rounded and often the location of the sidewalk itself is not in the ideal position for a straight street crossing. If you are crossing the same streets, you can learn the best location and how to use the curb/sidewalk/other landmarks at that specific intersection to line up with. However, this will not help at unfamiliar street crossings. Note: Many curbs appear to feel the same (with a lip), but the difference is that the sidewalk may meet at a 90 degree (T) to the curb, or the sidewalk may meet on the curve of the curb. Lining up where it is curving will definitely cause veering! Detectable warnings (yellow bumps) are often NOT aligned for straight street crossings!
- Suggestion 1: When walking down the sidewalk, approach the intersection using a straight line of travel. Maintain the line of direction when approaching the curb and waiting for clear street to cross. As I tell my young students, “Plant your feet like a tree!” And do not adjust your feet to line up with the curb.
- First step into the street: Many of my students approach the intersection with a straight line of direction, plant their feet, sweep to make sure the first step into the street is clear (no gutter or debris) and then when it is time to cross, the first step into the street is off, causing them to veer.
- Suggestion 1: The first step into the street is critical! If the body is slightly turned to listen to traffic, the step is small, there is a little anxiety about stepping into the street, or for other reasons, that first step is not straight (often the toe is turned in). Most people will always start walking with the same foot. (Typically right handed people will step with the right foot first - but not always!) If the right foot leads and the toe is turned in, then often the person will veer to the left. Practice taking a good first step - big enough to clean a dip for the gutter or debris and that the foot is in a straight alignment. With my young students, we practiced that first step off the curb multiple times in a row. Some students learned to straighten their feet, while others found it was easier to understand that the first step was consistently crooked and to adjust the second step.
- Sounds like you are already using traffic sounds for alignment. Good deal!
- It’s helpful to think of a spot directly across the street where you want to go. If you can, practice first on quiet streets. Ask someone to stand at the other side and talk to you or clap so you can travel to that place. With my young kids, after they plant their feet, I ask them to point to the sidewalk on the other side of the street. This way they think about that straight line before stepping off the curb and I can confirm if they have it correctly in their mind.
?
On Oct 25, 2023, at 10:25 PM, Jack Mitchell <jmitchell@...> wrote: ? You say that you "sweep a lot"....when you are not shorelining, do you maintain a relatively symmetrical cane arc covering the area in front of you, or does your arc swing further out to one side or the other?? In my students when the cane starts going further out to one side they generally start veering in the same direction..... While it is definitely good to be able to reduce veering, I agree with Michael that veering is going to happen sometimes, and that more important than trying to completely eliminate veering is 1) being able to tell that you have veered (and which way) and 2) knowing what to do to recover from that veer.
Generally away from the intersection and it doesn’t seem to matter which side it’s on. Yes I do veer when I’m walking in other places. I shoreline but also sweep a lot. I use traffic sounds and the curb to line up. It doesn’t seem to matter though a lot of curbs in our area are the same; little lips. Not sure if a video tape is possible.. ? ? You are not alone - there are many travelers who veer when crossing streets! There are so many things that can cause veering. Can I ask some questions to see if we can determine what is causing you to veer and then we can brainstorm things to try? Do you veer into or away from the intersection? Does it make a difference if the intersection is on your right or on your left?? Do you veer when walking down a hallway, sidewalk or through open spaces? Do you shoreline or trail the wall or grass line? What do you use to line up or for you line of direction when crossing an intersection? Does it matter what kind of curb is at the intersection? If it is possible, have someone video tape you while approaching, waiting at the curb and crossing an intersection? (If you are able to safely get a video and you do not want to share the video on the list serve, feel free to send it directly to me. I’ll be happy to review it and hopefully give you some pointers.) ? Walking quickly seems to help too.? ? If you use the iOS app OKO and there's a stoplight, you can keep yourself oriented to the stoplight which will keep you from veering significantly. It requires you to hold the phone steady (either on a neck strap or in your hand). ? On Wed, Oct 25, 2023 at 6:16?AM Gerald Levy via??<bwaylimited=[email protected]> wrote: ? Veering off course seems to be a problem for many cane users.? There is no easy solution.? Some exceptional blind cane users claim they can guide themselves in a straight line by using echolocation like a bat, basically flicking their tongues back and forthe like a freaking reptile to sense environmental vibrations to guide them.? A blind O&M instructor named Dan Kish has tried to popularize the use of echolocation by blind pedestrians, but there is a lot of controversy over whether this technique really works or is just a bunch of malarkey. And of course, echolocation would be totally useless for someone who is also deaf or hearing impaired in addition to being blind, and sadly, most O&M instructors have no clue how to train a blind client who is also hearing impaired and do not understand that wearing hearing aids is not a panacea. Some busy intersections in major cities now have audible traffic signals that make it a little easier for blind pedestrians to guide themselves in a straight line from one side of the street to the other, but they are not always kept in working order and they tend to be few and far between, and incredibly, their installation has been ? opposed by the largest, so-called blindness advocacy organization in the US. ??? ? ? ? On 10/25/2023 12:43 AM, Madison Martin wrote: I tend to veer a lot especially when crossing streets, my instructor says this is normal but I still find it annoying. Is this true and if so is there anything that I can do to prevent it from happening alltogether or at least reduce the chances of it happening? If it maters at all I use a folding cane with a roller ball tip because apparently it works the best on all surfaces. Look forward to any thoughts that anyone has. Thanks
You say that you "sweep a lot"....when you are not shorelining, do you maintain a relatively symmetrical cane arc covering the area in front of you, or does your arc swing further out to one side or the other?? In my students when the cane starts going further out to one side they generally start veering in the same direction.....?
?
?
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Re: Question about FVA for adults
Thanks Chris I agree I’d like to see what type of format or how it differ slightly since I understand it’s two different settings between students and adults so that would be cool if anyone had any framework for functional vision assessments for adults, we do have low vision clinics here with optometrists.?
Thanks again for feedback it’s always appreciated. Aloha, Amy.
On Thu, Oct 26, 2023 at 4:29?AM Chris Tabb < chris@...> wrote: Amy,
It would be important to understand the expectations of the requesting party. It may have been they thought you were a CLVT.?
From an education perspective you have all the correct background, though the some in the rehabilitation world may have different beliefs about what they perceive a functional vision evaluation to be.
-- Sent from iPhone 512.660.2750 ?Hi Friends?
As a TVI at school, I have conducted Functional Vision Assessments for 25 years. As an independent contractor I have worked with adults with significant vision loss in the areas of O&M, Tech, Daily Living Skills, Job Coaching and as a presenter/ in-service trainer.? I was recently requested to do a Functional Vision Assessment for an adult, but my credentials were questioned. I didn’t really think about it since I have conducted them for years. Is there another qualification to conduct FVA for adults? I know there are Vocational Rehab teachers for adult agencies, but unsure about assessment area. My students were up to age 22 and I assessed in school, work, home and community settings.?
Thanks in advance for any comments.?
Aloha Amy
|
Diane’s comments on the nuances of veering and strategies for improvement are the best I have encountered in my career! ?Fantastic! Thank you for sharing Diane.
?
?
Paul H. Olson—Superintendent
North Dakota Vision Services/School for the Blind
(701) 795-2717
?
?
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From: [email protected] < [email protected]> On Behalf Of
Diane Brauner via groups.io
Sent: Thursday, October 26, 2023 9:38 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [OandM] veering..
?
CAUTION: This email originated from an outside source. Do not click links or open attachments unless you know
they are safe.
Hi Madison,
I have some thoughts based on many years experience as a COMS; veering is a very common issue! Keep in mind I'm simply brainstorming. Without watching you as you cross a street, it is challenging to identify what is causing you to veer.
I’m going to use the terms shorelining/trailing but it could also be touch and drag or 3-point touch (on the sidewalk). Trailing is typically where the cane maintains contact with the wall or grass edge of a sidewalk. Most people use a cane sweep to follow
the wall/grass and not trailing, as trailing does not provide protection on the left/other side.
-
Shorelining/trailing can cause travelers to slightly turn their shoulders slightlyto the right (since typically the cane is trailing on the right side). If your body is even slightly twisted, the traveler will often veer to the right in open spaces.
-
Suggestion 1: Check your body alignment by standing with your back against the wall. Your heels, bottom, back, shoulders and head should all touch the wall. If your right shoulder touches but not your left, then you probably have a slight twist to the right.
Aligning against the wall will help you “feel” what is a straight body alignment.
-
Suggestion 2: Practice walking in a straight line beside a wall without your cane tip arc tapping against the wall. Listen to and use the wall to help you continue straight (echolocation or simply using your senses to be aware that the wall is there). Think
about keeping your body in a straight alignment. Then work on traveling in a straight line thru empty space - initially, use an auditory clue and walk to that sound. Practice walking in a straight line down a normal width sidewalk - without your cane tip tapping
or bumping into the grass.
-
My personal opinion is that trailing/shorelining will cause veering into door ways/hallway intersections inside and into driveways/intersections outside. Unless the traveler is looking for a specific landmark, traveling without trailing/shorelining is best.
-
As mentioned by others, having a symmetrical cane arc is also important. Travelers that trail the wall often have less of an arc on the left (away from the wall). A symmetrical cane arc will help you move in a straight line. We teach young students to initially
place their left hand on their right wrist to keep their cane/hand in the center of the body, which is helpful for learning to create a symmetrical cane arc. Most adults will choose to have their right hand at the side of their body (more comfortable position!),
but then must relearn the cane arc to make a wider sweep on the left side to provide complete coverage and to travel in a straight line.
-
Suggestion 1: Ask a friend (or your O&M) to stand in front of you, facing you, with their feet slightly wider than your shoulders. You can gently sweep your cane from side to side using your normal cane arc. Does your cane tip touch both feet? Have the same
force when it comes in contact with both feet? This is also good practice to understand if your cane arc is too wide, not wide enough, or not symmetrical.
-
Lining up with curbs: Most of the curbs in my area will NOT give a good line of direction for a straight street crossing. This is particularly true in small towns/suburbs. Many of the curbs are rounded and often the location of the sidewalk itself is not in
the ideal position for a straight street crossing. If you are crossing the same streets, you can learn the best location and how to use the curb/sidewalk/other landmarks at that specific intersection to line up with. However, this will not help at unfamiliar
street crossings. Note: Many curbs appear to feel the same (with a lip), but the difference is that the sidewalk may meet at a 90 degree (T) to the curb, or the sidewalk may meet on the curve of the curb. Lining up where it is curving will definitely cause
veering! Detectable warnings (yellow bumps) are often NOT aligned for straight street crossings!
-
Suggestion 1: When walking down the sidewalk, approach the intersection using a straight line of travel. Maintain the line of direction when approaching the curb and waiting for clear street to cross. As I tell my young students, “Plant your feet like a tree!”
And do not adjust your feet to line up with the curb.
-
First step into the street: Many of my students approach the intersection with a straight line of direction, plant their feet, sweep to make sure the first step into the street is clear (no gutter or debris) and then when it is time to cross, the first step
into the street is off, causing them to veer.
-
Suggestion 1: The first step into the street is critical! If the body is slightly turned to listen to traffic, the step is small, there is a little anxiety about stepping into the street, or for other reasons, that first step is not straight (often the toe
is turned in). Most people will always start walking with the same foot. (Typically right handed people will step with the right foot first - but not always!) If the right foot leads and the toe is turned in, then often the person will veer to the left. Practice
taking a good first step - big enough to clean a dip for the gutter or debris and that the foot is in a straight alignment. With my young students, we practiced that first step off the curb multiple times in a row. Some students learned to straighten their
feet, while others found it was easier to understand that the first step was consistently crooked and to adjust the second step.
-
Sounds like you are already using traffic sounds for alignment. Good deal!
-
It’s helpful to think of a spot directly across the street where you want to go. If you can, practice first on quiet streets. Ask someone to stand at the other side and talk to you or clap so you can travel to that place. With my young kids, after they plant
their feet, I ask them to point to the sidewalk on the other side of the street. This way they think about that straight line before stepping off the curb and I can confirm if they have it correctly in their mind.
?
On Oct 25, 2023, at 10:25 PM, Jack Mitchell <jmitchell@...> wrote:
?
You say that you "sweep a lot"....when you are not shorelining, do you maintain a relatively symmetrical cane arc covering the area in front of you, or does your arc swing further
out to one side or the other?? In my students when the cane starts going further out to one side they generally start veering in the same direction.....
While it is definitely good to be able to reduce veering, I agree with Michael that veering is going to happen sometimes, and that more important than trying to completely eliminate
veering is 1) being able to tell that you have veered (and which way) and 2) knowing what to do to recover from that veer.
Generally away from the intersection and it doesn’t seem to matter which side it’s on. Yes I do veer when I’m walking in other places. I shoreline but also sweep a lot. I use traffic sounds and the curb to line up. It
doesn’t seem to matter though a lot of curbs in our area are the same; little lips. Not sure if a video tape is possible..
?
?
You are not alone - there are many travelers who veer when crossing streets! There are so many things that can cause veering. Can I ask some questions to see if we can determine what is causing you to veer and then we
can brainstorm things to try?
Do you veer into or away from the intersection? Does it make a difference if the intersection is on your right or on your left??
Do you veer when walking down a hallway, sidewalk or through open spaces?
Do you shoreline or trail the wall or grass line?
What do you use to line up or for you line of direction when crossing an intersection?
Does it matter what kind of curb is at the intersection?
If it is possible, have someone video tape you while approaching, waiting at the curb and crossing an intersection? (If you are able to safely get a video and you do not want to share the video on the list serve, feel
free to send it directly to me. I’ll be happy to review it and hopefully give you some pointers.)
?
Walking quickly seems to help too.?
?
If you use the iOS app OKO and there's a stoplight, you can keep yourself oriented to the stoplight which will keep you from veering significantly. It requires you
to hold the phone steady (either on a neck strap or in your hand).
?
On Wed, Oct 25, 2023 at 6:16?AM Gerald Levy via??<bwaylimited=[email protected]>
wrote:
?
Veering off course seems to be a problem for many cane users.? There is no easy solution.? Some exceptional blind cane users claim they can guide themselves
in a straight line by using echolocation like a bat, basically flicking their tongues back and forthe like a freaking reptile to sense environmental vibrations to guide them.? A blind O&M instructor named Dan Kish has tried to popularize the use of echolocation
by blind pedestrians, but there is a lot of controversy over whether this technique really works or is just a bunch of malarkey. And of course, echolocation would be totally useless for someone who is also deaf or hearing impaired in addition to being blind,
and sadly, most O&M instructors have no clue how to train a blind client who is also hearing impaired and do not understand that wearing hearing aids is not a panacea. Some busy intersections in major cities now have audible traffic signals that make it a
little easier for blind pedestrians to guide themselves in a straight line from one side of the street to the other, but they are not always kept in working order and they tend to be few and far between, and incredibly, their installation has been ? opposed
by the largest, so-called blindness advocacy organization in the US. ???
?
?
?
On 10/25/2023 12:43 AM, Madison Martin wrote:
I tend to veer a lot especially when crossing streets, my instructor says this is normal but I still find it annoying. Is this true and if so is there anything that
I can do to prevent it from happening alltogether or at least reduce the chances of it happening? If it maters at all I use a folding cane with a roller ball tip because apparently it works the best on all surfaces. Look forward to any thoughts that anyone
has. Thanks
You say that you "sweep a lot"....when you are not shorelining, do you maintain a relatively symmetrical cane arc covering the area in front
of you, or does your arc swing further out to one side or the other?? In my students when the cane starts going further out to one side they generally start veering in the same direction.....?
?
?
|
Hi Madison,
I have some thoughts based on many years experience as a COMS; veering is a very common issue! Keep in mind I'm simply brainstorming. Without watching you as you cross a street, it is challenging to identify what is causing you to veer. I’m going to use the terms shorelining/trailing but it could also be touch and drag or 3-point touch (on the sidewalk). Trailing is typically where the cane maintains contact with the wall or grass edge of a sidewalk. Most people use a cane sweep to follow the wall/grass and not trailing, as trailing does not provide protection on the left/other side.
- Shorelining/trailing can cause travelers to slightly turn their shoulders slightlyto the right (since typically the cane is trailing on the right side). If your body is even slightly twisted, the traveler will often veer to the right in open spaces.
- Suggestion 1: Check your body alignment by standing with your back against the wall. Your heels, bottom, back, shoulders and head should all touch the wall. If your right shoulder touches but not your left, then you probably have a slight twist to the right. Aligning against the wall will help you “feel” what is a straight body alignment.
- Suggestion 2: Practice walking in a straight line beside a wall without your cane tip arc tapping against the wall. Listen to and use the wall to help you continue straight (echolocation or simply using your senses to be aware that the wall is there). Think about keeping your body in a straight alignment. Then work on traveling in a straight line thru empty space - initially, use an auditory clue and walk to that sound. Practice walking in a straight line down a normal width sidewalk - without your cane tip tapping or bumping into the grass.
- My personal opinion is that trailing/shorelining will cause veering into door ways/hallway intersections inside and into driveways/intersections outside. Unless the traveler is looking for a specific landmark, traveling without trailing/shorelining is best.
- As mentioned by others, having a symmetrical cane arc is also important. Travelers that trail the wall often have less of an arc on the left (away from the wall). A symmetrical cane arc will help you move in a straight line. We teach young students to initially place their left hand on their right wrist to keep their cane/hand in the center of the body, which is helpful for learning to create a symmetrical cane arc. Most adults will choose to have their right hand at the side of their body (more comfortable position!), but then must relearn the cane arc to make a wider sweep on the left side to provide complete coverage and to travel in a straight line.
- Suggestion 1: Ask a friend (or your O&M) to stand in front of you, facing you, with their feet slightly wider than your shoulders. You can gently sweep your cane from side to side using your normal cane arc. Does your cane tip touch both feet? Have the same force when it comes in contact with both feet? This is also good practice to understand if your cane arc is too wide, not wide enough, or not symmetrical.
- Lining up with curbs: Most of the curbs in my area will NOT give a good line of direction for a straight street crossing. This is particularly true in small towns/suburbs. Many of the curbs are rounded and often the location of the sidewalk itself is not in the ideal position for a straight street crossing. If you are crossing the same streets, you can learn the best location and how to use the curb/sidewalk/other landmarks at that specific intersection to line up with. However, this will not help at unfamiliar street crossings. Note: Many curbs appear to feel the same (with a lip), but the difference is that the sidewalk may meet at a 90 degree (T) to the curb, or the sidewalk may meet on the curve of the curb. Lining up where it is curving will definitely cause veering! Detectable warnings (yellow bumps) are often NOT aligned for straight street crossings!
- Suggestion 1: When walking down the sidewalk, approach the intersection using a straight line of travel. Maintain the line of direction when approaching the curb and waiting for clear street to cross. As I tell my young students, “Plant your feet like a tree!” And do not adjust your feet to line up with the curb.
- First step into the street: Many of my students approach the intersection with a straight line of direction, plant their feet, sweep to make sure the first step into the street is clear (no gutter or debris) and then when it is time to cross, the first step into the street is off, causing them to veer.
- Suggestion 1: The first step into the street is critical! If the body is slightly turned to listen to traffic, the step is small, there is a little anxiety about stepping into the street, or for other reasons, that first step is not straight (often the toe is turned in). Most people will always start walking with the same foot. (Typically right handed people will step with the right foot first - but not always!) If the right foot leads and the toe is turned in, then often the person will veer to the left. Practice taking a good first step - big enough to clean a dip for the gutter or debris and that the foot is in a straight alignment. With my young students, we practiced that first step off the curb multiple times in a row. Some students learned to straighten their feet, while others found it was easier to understand that the first step was consistently crooked and to adjust the second step.
- Sounds like you are already using traffic sounds for alignment. Good deal!
- It’s helpful to think of a spot directly across the street where you want to go. If you can, practice first on quiet streets. Ask someone to stand at the other side and talk to you or clap so you can travel to that place. With my young kids, after they plant their feet, I ask them to point to the sidewalk on the other side of the street. This way they think about that straight line before stepping off the curb and I can confirm if they have it correctly in their mind.
I hope this helps! Diane
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On Oct 25, 2023, at 10:25 PM, Jack Mitchell < jmitchell@...> wrote:
You say that you "sweep a lot"....when you are not shorelining, do you maintain a relatively symmetrical cane arc covering the area in front of you, or does your arc swing further out to one side or the other?? In my students when the cane starts going further out to one side they generally start veering in the same direction.....
While it is definitely good to be able to reduce veering, I agree with Michael that veering is going to happen sometimes, and that more important than trying to completely eliminate veering is 1) being able to tell that you have veered (and which way) and 2) knowing what to do to recover from that veer.
J
Generally away from the intersection and it doesn’t seem to matter which side it’s on. Yes I do veer when I’m walking in other places. I shoreline but also sweep a lot. I use traffic sounds and the curb to line up. It doesn’t seem to matter though a lot of curbs in our area are the same; little lips. Not sure if a video tape is possible.. ? ? Hi Madison, You are not alone - there are many travelers who veer when crossing streets! There are so many things that can cause veering. Can I ask some questions to see if we can determine what is causing you to veer and then we can brainstorm things to try? Do you veer into or away from the intersection? Does it make a difference if the intersection is on your right or on your left?? Do you veer when walking down a hallway, sidewalk or through open spaces? Do you shoreline or trail the wall or grass line? What do you use to line up or for you line of direction when crossing an intersection? Does it matter what kind of curb is at the intersection? If it is possible, have someone video tape you while approaching, waiting at the curb and crossing an intersection? (If you are able to safely get a video and you do not want to share the video on the list serve, feel free to send it directly to me. I’ll be happy to review it and hopefully give you some pointers.) ? Walking quickly seems to help too.? ? Hello, If you use the iOS app OKO and there's a stoplight, you can keep yourself oriented to the stoplight which will keep you from veering significantly. It requires you to hold the phone steady (either on a neck strap or in your hand). ? On Wed, Oct 25, 2023 at 6:16?AM Gerald Levy via??<bwaylimited=[email protected]> wrote: ? Veering off course seems to be a problem for many cane users.? There is no easy solution.? Some exceptional blind cane users claim they can guide themselves in a straight line by using echolocation like a bat, basically flicking their tongues back and forthe like a freaking reptile to sense environmental vibrations to guide them.? A blind O&M instructor named Dan Kish has tried to popularize the use of echolocation by blind pedestrians, but there is a lot of controversy over whether this technique really works or is just a bunch of malarkey. And of course, echolocation would be totally useless for someone who is also deaf or hearing impaired in addition to being blind, and sadly, most O&M instructors have no clue how to train a blind client who is also hearing impaired and do not understand that wearing hearing aids is not a panacea. Some busy intersections in major cities now have audible traffic signals that make it a little easier for blind pedestrians to guide themselves in a straight line from one side of the street to the other, but they are not always kept in working order and they tend to be few and far between, and incredibly, their installation has been ? opposed by the largest, so-called blindness advocacy organization in the US. ??? ? Gerald? ? ? On 10/25/2023 12:43 AM, Madison Martin wrote: Hi all, I tend to veer a lot especially when crossing streets, my instructor says this is normal but I still find it annoying. Is this true and if so is there anything that I can do to prevent it from happening alltogether or at least reduce the chances of it happening? If it maters at all I use a folding cane with a roller ball tip because apparently it works the best on all surfaces. Look forward to any thoughts that anyone has. Thanks Madison
You say that you "sweep a lot"....when you are not shorelining, do you maintain a relatively symmetrical cane arc covering the area in front of you, or does your arc swing further out to one side or the other?? In my students when the cane starts going further out to one side they generally start veering in the same direction.....?
?
|
Glad you mentioned shorelining. I’ve found over 34 years, people who shoreline the majority of the time, veer as well. Have gone back and worked with them maintaining a straight line of travel without shorelining and they have been able to minimize veering. They have a better feel of what it is like to travel straight. Used a sidewalk with grass on both sides and have them walk and not touch the grass, repetitively. If this is possible. Takes away the fear of going off the curb or a drop off.?
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Show quoted text
On Oct 26, 2023, at 7:30 AM, Wheeler, Victoria L. (ECH) via groups.io <victoria.wheeler@...> wrote:
?
If you shoreline a lot, this could be part of the problem – I have found that my clients who shoreline are used to getting a lot of feedback to maintain orientation and that it is natural to veer in an attempt to reconnect with the feedback.?
I would try to work on walking in a straight line when not crossing intersections – straight hallways, sidewalks, open spaces (gymnasium, park, etc) to see if you can walk in a straight line in those situations.? If you have problems with veering when away
from traffic, you can try to work on it in those situations and then go back to working on it at intersections.?
?
I agree with others though, that sometimes you cannot eliminate veering completely.? In those situations, it is best if you are veering away from parallel traffic and have good recovery strategies.
?
Victoria L Wheeler, COMS, CVRT, CATIS
VIST Coordinator
Blind Rehabilitation Specialist – Assistive Technology
303-283-5368
?
?
Generally away from the intersection and it doesn’t seem to matter which side it’s on. Yes I do veer when I’m walking in other places. I shoreline but also sweep a lot. I use traffic sounds and the curb to line up. It
doesn’t seem to matter though a lot of curbs in our area are the same; little lips. Not sure if a video tape is possible..
?
?
Hi Madison,
You are not alone - there are many travelers who veer when crossing streets! There are so many things that can cause veering. Can I ask some questions to see if we can determine what is causing you to veer and then we
can brainstorm things to try?
Do you veer into or away from the intersection? Does it make a difference if the intersection is on your right or on your left??
Do you veer when walking down a hallway, sidewalk or through open spaces?
Do you shoreline or trail the wall or grass line?
What do you use to line up or for you line of direction when crossing an intersection?
Does it matter what kind of curb is at the intersection?
If it is possible, have someone video tape you while approaching, waiting at the curb and crossing an intersection? (If you are able to safely get a video and you do not want to share the video on the list serve, feel
free to send it directly to me. I’ll be happy to review it and hopefully give you some pointers.)
?
Walking quickly seems to help too.?
?
Hello,
If you use the iOS app OKO and there's a stoplight, you can keep yourself oriented to the stoplight which will keep you from veering significantly. It requires you
to hold the phone steady (either on a neck strap or in your hand).
?
On Wed, Oct 25, 2023 at 6:16?AM Gerald Levy via??<bwaylimited=[email protected]>
wrote:
?
Veering off course seems to be a problem for many cane users.? There is no easy solution.? Some exceptional
blind cane users claim they can guide themselves in a straight line by using echolocation like a bat, basically flicking their tongues back and forthe like a freaking reptile to sense environmental vibrations to guide them.? A blind O&M instructor named Dan
Kish has tried to popularize the use of echolocation by blind pedestrians, but there is a lot of controversy over whether this technique really works or is just a bunch of malarkey. And of course, echolocation would be totally useless for someone who is also
deaf or hearing impaired in addition to being blind, and sadly, most O&M instructors have no clue how to train a blind client who is also hearing impaired and do not understand that wearing hearing aids is not a panacea. Some busy intersections in major cities
now have audible traffic signals that make it a little easier for blind pedestrians to guide themselves in a straight line from one side of the street to the other, but they are not always kept in working order and they tend to be few and far between, and
incredibly, their installation has been ? opposed by the largest, so-called blindness advocacy organization in the US. ???
?
Gerald?
?
?
On 10/25/2023 12:43 AM, Madison Martin wrote:
Hi all,
I tend to veer a lot especially when crossing streets, my instructor says this is normal but I still find
it annoying. Is this true and if so is there anything that I can do to prevent it from happening alltogether or at least reduce the chances of it happening? If it maters at all I use a folding cane with a roller ball tip because apparently it works the best
on all surfaces. Look forward to any thoughts that anyone has. Thanks
Madison
?
|
Re: Question about FVA for adults
Amy,
It would be important to understand the expectations of the requesting party. It may have been they thought you were a CLVT.?
From an education perspective you have all the correct background, though the some in the rehabilitation world may have different beliefs about what they perceive a functional vision evaluation to be.
-- Sent from iPhone chris@... 512.660.2750
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On Oct 25, 2023, at 11:06?PM, Amy Downard <adownardtvi@...> wrote:
?Hi Friends?
As a TVI at school, I have conducted Functional Vision Assessments for 25 years. As an independent contractor I have worked with adults with significant vision loss in the areas of O&M, Tech, Daily Living Skills, Job Coaching and as a presenter/ in-service trainer.? I was recently requested to do a Functional Vision Assessment for an adult, but my credentials were questioned. I didn’t really think about it since I have conducted them for years. Is there another qualification to conduct FVA for adults? I know there are Vocational Rehab teachers for adult agencies, but unsure about assessment area. My students were up to age 22 and I assessed in school, work, home and community settings.?
Thanks in advance for any comments.?
Aloha Amy
|
If you shoreline a lot, this could be part of the problem – I have found that my clients who shoreline are used to getting a lot of feedback to maintain orientation and that it is natural to veer in an attempt to reconnect with the feedback.?
I would try to work on walking in a straight line when not crossing intersections – straight hallways, sidewalks, open spaces (gymnasium, park, etc) to see if you can walk in a straight line in those situations.? If you have problems with veering when away
from traffic, you can try to work on it in those situations and then go back to working on it at intersections.?
?
I agree with others though, that sometimes you cannot eliminate veering completely.? In those situations, it is best if you are veering away from parallel traffic and have good recovery strategies.
?
Victoria L Wheeler, COMS, CVRT, CATIS
VIST Coordinator
Blind Rehabilitation Specialist – Assistive Technology
303-283-5368
?
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
From: [email protected] < [email protected]> On Behalf Of
Madison Martin
Sent: Wednesday, October 25, 2023 10:34 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: [OandM] veering..
?
Generally away from the intersection and it doesn’t seem to matter which side it’s on. Yes I do veer when I’m walking in other places. I shoreline but also sweep a lot. I use traffic sounds and the curb to line up. It
doesn’t seem to matter though a lot of curbs in our area are the same; little lips. Not sure if a video tape is possible..
?
?
Hi Madison,
You are not alone - there are many travelers who veer when crossing streets! There are so many things that can cause veering. Can I ask some questions to see if we can determine what is causing you to veer and then we
can brainstorm things to try?
Do you veer into or away from the intersection? Does it make a difference if the intersection is on your right or on your left??
Do you veer when walking down a hallway, sidewalk or through open spaces?
Do you shoreline or trail the wall or grass line?
What do you use to line up or for you line of direction when crossing an intersection?
Does it matter what kind of curb is at the intersection?
If it is possible, have someone video tape you while approaching, waiting at the curb and crossing an intersection? (If you are able to safely get a video and you do not want to share the video on the list serve, feel
free to send it directly to me. I’ll be happy to review it and hopefully give you some pointers.)
?
Walking quickly seems to help too.?
?
Hello,
If you use the iOS app OKO and there's a stoplight, you can keep yourself oriented to the stoplight which will keep you from veering significantly. It requires you
to hold the phone steady (either on a neck strap or in your hand).
?
On Wed, Oct 25, 2023 at 6:16?AM Gerald Levy via??<bwaylimited=[email protected]>
wrote:
?
Veering off course seems to be a problem for many cane users.? There is no easy solution.? Some exceptional
blind cane users claim they can guide themselves in a straight line by using echolocation like a bat, basically flicking their tongues back and forthe like a freaking reptile to sense environmental vibrations to guide them.? A blind O&M instructor named Dan
Kish has tried to popularize the use of echolocation by blind pedestrians, but there is a lot of controversy over whether this technique really works or is just a bunch of malarkey. And of course, echolocation would be totally useless for someone who is also
deaf or hearing impaired in addition to being blind, and sadly, most O&M instructors have no clue how to train a blind client who is also hearing impaired and do not understand that wearing hearing aids is not a panacea. Some busy intersections in major cities
now have audible traffic signals that make it a little easier for blind pedestrians to guide themselves in a straight line from one side of the street to the other, but they are not always kept in working order and they tend to be few and far between, and
incredibly, their installation has been ? opposed by the largest, so-called blindness advocacy organization in the US. ???
?
Gerald?
?
?
On 10/25/2023 12:43 AM, Madison Martin wrote:
Hi all,
I tend to veer a lot especially when crossing streets, my instructor says this is normal but I still find
it annoying. Is this true and if so is there anything that I can do to prevent it from happening alltogether or at least reduce the chances of it happening? If it maters at all I use a folding cane with a roller ball tip because apparently it works the best
on all surfaces. Look forward to any thoughts that anyone has. Thanks
Madison
?
|
I think it’s fairly symetrical ?
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Show quoted text
From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of Jack Mitchell
Sent: Wednesday, October 25, 2023 9:25 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [OandM] veering..? You say that you "sweep a lot"....when you are not shorelining, do you maintain a relatively symmetrical cane arc covering the area in front of you, or does your arc swing further out to one side or the other?? In my students when the cane starts going further out to one side they generally start veering in the same direction..... While it is definitely good to be able to reduce veering, I agree with Michael that veering is going to happen sometimes, and that more important than trying to completely eliminate veering is 1) being able to tell that you have veered (and which way) and 2) knowing what to do to recover from that veer.
Generally away from the intersection and it doesn’t seem to matter which side it’s on. Yes I do veer when I’m walking in other places. I shoreline but also sweep a lot. I use traffic sounds and the curb to line up. It doesn’t seem to matter though a lot of curbs in our area are the same; little lips. Not sure if a video tape is possible.. ? ? Hi Madison, You are not alone - there are many travelers who veer when crossing streets! There are so many things that can cause veering. Can I ask some questions to see if we can determine what is causing you to veer and then we can brainstorm things to try? Do you veer into or away from the intersection? Does it make a difference if the intersection is on your right or on your left?? Do you veer when walking down a hallway, sidewalk or through open spaces? Do you shoreline or trail the wall or grass line? What do you use to line up or for you line of direction when crossing an intersection? Does it matter what kind of curb is at the intersection? If it is possible, have someone video tape you while approaching, waiting at the curb and crossing an intersection? (If you are able to safely get a video and you do not want to share the video on the list serve, feel free to send it directly to me. I’ll be happy to review it and hopefully give you some pointers.) ? Walking quickly seems to help too.? ? Hello, If you use the iOS app OKO and there's a stoplight, you can keep yourself oriented to the stoplight which will keep you from veering significantly. It requires you to hold the phone steady (either on a neck strap or in your hand). ? On Wed, Oct 25, 2023 at 6:16?AM Gerald Levy via??<bwaylimited=[email protected]> wrote: ? Veering off course seems to be a problem for many cane users.? There is no easy solution.? Some exceptional blind cane users claim they can guide themselves in a straight line by using echolocation like a bat, basically flicking their tongues back and forthe like a freaking reptile to sense environmental vibrations to guide them.? A blind O&M instructor named Dan Kish has tried to popularize the use of echolocation by blind pedestrians, but there is a lot of controversy over whether this technique really works or is just a bunch of malarkey. And of course, echolocation would be totally useless for someone who is also deaf or hearing impaired in addition to being blind, and sadly, most O&M instructors have no clue how to train a blind client who is also hearing impaired and do not understand that wearing hearing aids is not a panacea. Some busy intersections in major cities now have audible traffic signals that make it a little easier for blind pedestrians to guide themselves in a straight line from one side of the street to the other, but they are not always kept in working order and they tend to be few and far between, and incredibly, their installation has been ? opposed by the largest, so-called blindness advocacy organization in the US. ??? ? Gerald? ? ? On 10/25/2023 12:43 AM, Madison Martin wrote: Hi all, I tend to veer a lot especially when crossing streets, my instructor says this is normal but I still find it annoying. Is this true and if so is there anything that I can do to prevent it from happening alltogether or at least reduce the chances of it happening? If it maters at all I use a folding cane with a roller ball tip because apparently it works the best on all surfaces. Look forward to any thoughts that anyone has. Thanks Madison
?
|
Question about FVA for adults
Hi Friends?
As a TVI at school, I have conducted Functional Vision Assessments for 25 years. As an independent contractor I have worked with adults with significant vision loss in the areas of O&M, Tech, Daily Living Skills, Job Coaching and as a presenter/ in-service trainer.? I was recently requested to do a Functional Vision Assessment for an adult, but my credentials were questioned. I didn’t really think about it since I have conducted them for years. Is there another qualification to conduct FVA for adults? I know there are Vocational Rehab teachers for adult agencies, but unsure about assessment area. My students were up to age 22 and I assessed in school, work, home and community settings.?
Thanks in advance for any comments.?
Aloha Amy
|
You say that you "sweep a lot"....when you are not shorelining, do you maintain a relatively symmetrical cane arc covering the area in front of you, or does your arc swing further out to one side or the other?? In my students when the cane starts going further
out to one side they generally start veering in the same direction.....
While it is definitely good to be able to reduce veering, I agree with Michael that veering is going to happen sometimes, and that more important than trying to completely eliminate veering is 1) being able to tell that you have veered (and which way) and 2)
knowing what to do to recover from that veer.
J
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
Generally away from the intersection and it doesn’t seem to matter which side it’s on. Yes I do veer when I’m walking in other places. I shoreline but also sweep a lot. I use
traffic sounds and the curb to line up. It doesn’t seem to matter though a lot of curbs in our area are the same; little lips. Not sure if a video tape is possible..
?
?
Hi Madison,
You are not alone - there are many travelers who veer when crossing streets! There are so many things that can cause veering. Can I ask some questions to see if we can determine
what is causing you to veer and then we can brainstorm things to try?
Do you veer into or away from the intersection? Does it make a difference if the intersection is on your right or on your left??
Do you veer when walking down a hallway, sidewalk or through open spaces?
Do you shoreline or trail the wall or grass line?
What do you use to line up or for you line of direction when crossing an intersection?
Does it matter what kind of curb is at the intersection?
If it is possible, have someone video tape you while approaching, waiting at the curb and crossing an intersection? (If you are able to safely get a video and you do not want
to share the video on the list serve, feel free to send it directly to me. I’ll be happy to review it and hopefully give you some pointers.)
?
Walking quickly seems to help too.?
?
Hello,
If you use the iOS app OKO and there's a stoplight, you can keep yourself oriented to the stoplight which will keep you from veering significantly.
It requires you to hold the phone steady (either on a neck strap or in your hand).
?
On Wed, Oct 25, 2023 at 6:16?AM Gerald Levy via??<bwaylimited=[email protected]>
wrote:
?
Veering off course seems to be a problem for many cane users.? There is no easy solution.? Some exceptional blind cane users claim
they can guide themselves in a straight line by using echolocation like a bat, basically flicking their tongues back and forthe like a freaking reptile to sense environmental vibrations to guide them.? A blind O&M instructor named Dan Kish has tried to popularize
the use of echolocation by blind pedestrians, but there is a lot of controversy over whether this technique really works or is just a bunch of malarkey. And of course, echolocation would be totally useless for someone who is also deaf or hearing impaired in
addition to being blind, and sadly, most O&M instructors have no clue how to train a blind client who is also hearing impaired and do not understand that wearing hearing aids is not a panacea. Some busy intersections in major cities now have audible traffic
signals that make it a little easier for blind pedestrians to guide themselves in a straight line from one side of the street to the other, but they are not always kept in working order and they tend to be few and far between, and incredibly, their installation
has been ? opposed by the largest, so-called blindness advocacy organization in the US. ???
?
Gerald?
?
?
On 10/25/2023 12:43 AM, Madison Martin wrote:
Hi all,
I tend to veer a lot especially when crossing streets, my instructor says this is normal but I still find it annoying. Is this true and
if so is there anything that I can do to prevent it from happening alltogether or at least reduce the chances of it happening? If it maters at all I use a folding cane with a roller ball tip because apparently it works the best on all surfaces. Look forward
to any thoughts that anyone has. Thanks
Madison
?
|
Veering is something that happens even with the best travelers. The important issues are to be able to figure out how to recover, and also, not veering so much that you end up in parallel traffic. This may seem overly obvious, but if you have a tendency to veer, it is better to veer away from the parallel traffic instead of toward it. Some intersections do not give you anything to work with, but there are a couple of common trends that can be helpful. In the City I teach in the most, many intersections feature brick crosswalks and non-brick paved streets. In such instances, if you use constant contact, an especially with the tip you say you are using, you should be able to determine when you are veering out of the brick surface. If you need more reinforcement, you can shoreline between the brick crosswalk and the paved street. It is usually best to do this on the border of the crosswalk that is furthest away from the parallel traffic flow. ?Even if there is not an obvious surface change between sidewalk and street such as I have just described, sometimes there is an expansion crack that runs in the direction of the parallel traffic, but in the crosswalk area. If you find such an expansion crack, again constant contact is suggested; you can arc back and forth across the crack using constant contact. Michael Byington, Certified Orientation and Mobility Specialist President of Kansas Association for the Blind and Visually Impaired, Inc. Membership Coordinator for Friends In Art of the American Council of the Blind 712 S. Kansas Avenue Suite 414D-F Topeka, Kansas 66603 (785) 221-7111 ByingtonCOMS@... ? ?
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Show quoted text
From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of Madison Martin
Sent: Tuesday, October 24, 2023 11:43 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: [OandM] veering..? Hi all, I tend to veer a lot especially when crossing streets, my instructor says this is normal but I still find it annoying. Is this true and if so is there anything that I can do to prevent it from happening alltogether or at least reduce the chances of it happening? If it maters at all I use a folding cane with a roller ball tip because apparently it works the best on all surfaces. Look forward to any thoughts that anyone has. Thanks Madison
|
Generally away from the intersection and it doesn’t seem to matter which side it’s on. Yes I do veer when I’m walking in other places. I shoreline but also sweep a lot. I use traffic sounds and the curb to line up. It doesn’t seem to matter though a lot of curbs in our area are the same; little lips. Not sure if a video tape is possible.. ?
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of Diane Brauner via groups.io
Sent: Wednesday, October 25, 2023 9:10 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [OandM] veering..? Hi Madison, You are not alone - there are many travelers who veer when crossing streets! There are so many things that can cause veering. Can I ask some questions to see if we can determine what is causing you to veer and then we can brainstorm things to try? Do you veer into or away from the intersection? Does it make a difference if the intersection is on your right or on your left?? Do you veer when walking down a hallway, sidewalk or through open spaces? Do you shoreline or trail the wall or grass line? What do you use to line up or for you line of direction when crossing an intersection? Does it matter what kind of curb is at the intersection? If it is possible, have someone video tape you while approaching, waiting at the curb and crossing an intersection? (If you are able to safely get a video and you do not want to share the video on the list serve, feel free to send it directly to me. I’ll be happy to review it and hopefully give you some pointers.) ? Walking quickly seems to help too.? ? Hello, If you use the iOS app OKO and there's a stoplight, you can keep yourself oriented to the stoplight which will keep you from veering significantly. It requires you to hold the phone steady (either on a neck strap or in your hand). ? On Wed, Oct 25, 2023 at 6:16?AM Gerald Levy via??<bwaylimited=[email protected]> wrote: ? Veering off course seems to be a problem for many cane users.? There is no easy solution.? Some exceptional blind cane users claim they can guide themselves in a straight line by using echolocation like a bat, basically flicking their tongues back and forthe like a freaking reptile to sense environmental vibrations to guide them.? A blind O&M instructor named Dan Kish has tried to popularize the use of echolocation by blind pedestrians, but there is a lot of controversy over whether this technique really works or is just a bunch of malarkey. And of course, echolocation would be totally useless for someone who is also deaf or hearing impaired in addition to being blind, and sadly, most O&M instructors have no clue how to train a blind client who is also hearing impaired and do not understand that wearing hearing aids is not a panacea. Some busy intersections in major cities now have audible traffic signals that make it a little easier for blind pedestrians to guide themselves in a straight line from one side of the street to the other, but they are not always kept in working order and they tend to be few and far between, and incredibly, their installation has been ? opposed by the largest, so-called blindness advocacy organization in the US. ??? ? Gerald? ? ? On 10/25/2023 12:43 AM, Madison Martin wrote: Hi all, I tend to veer a lot especially when crossing streets, my instructor says this is normal but I still find it annoying. Is this true and if so is there anything that I can do to prevent it from happening alltogether or at least reduce the chances of it happening? If it maters at all I use a folding cane with a roller ball tip because apparently it works the best on all surfaces. Look forward to any thoughts that anyone has. Thanks Madison
?
|
Regarding how people use apps and visual interpreters when crossing streets, full disclosure, I work for aira, a national provider of professional visual interpreting service. Here’s how our service works.?
Someone calls an Aira visual interpreter, yes we did used to call them agents, using our smart phone app. They can choose to hold the phone or use a lanyard or mount so that the back-facing camera is facing away from them. Once they initiate the call, there’s really nothing for them to do on the screen. Most people who make any use of their smart phones when traveling do so using headphones, either bluetooth or wired. Many people using Aira tell us they use bone conduction or open-ear headphones to hear the environment.?
Aira had, when we initially started the service, a policy of remaining silent once the person stepped into the street so their entire attention was focused on the crossing. This is still the default for our visual interpreters.?
In 2019 though, after much consulting with O&M specialists and customers, we changed the policy so that interpreters can now give minimal answers to the following:?
Veering, especially toward traffic? Obstacles in the crossing such as vehicles pulled into the crosswalk, debris or ice/snow? Distance to the opposite curb?
Customers can ask for this info before they begin the crossing and our interpreters can give short answers such as:?
“Step to your left.” (Veering) “Car in the crosswalk ahead” (obstacle) “You’re about 3feet from the curb, two feet …” (distance)?
From personal experience, I’ve used this feature of Aira as well as via the volunteer app Be My Eyes when using both a cane and a guide dog to correct veering or judge distance at large intersections.?
One way a visual interpreter can assist someone prior to the crossing is to let them know what the intersection is like, how many lanes, if there is a turn lane, at what angle the crossing is, say an X-shaped intersection vs a +-shaped one.?
I’ve advised customers who want help at crossings to hold their phone up to their nose or mid face then ask the visual interpreter to let them know when their head is in position so that they are pointed at that up-curb. Of course then they need to remember to square their feet with the position of their head.?
Hope this helps.?
Jenine Stanley Director, Customer Success & Engagement Aira Tech Corp. jenine.stanley@... Direct Dial: 1-614-600-7408
Access to visual information is a human right.? Customer Care? 1-800-835-1934 support@... Learn more about visual interpreting at http://aira.io. Podcast Feed: https://pinecast.com/feed/Airacast Youtube: https://youtube.com/c/airaio RSS Feed: https://aira.io/feed
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On Oct 25, 2023, at 10:48?AM, Patty Arnold <parnold@...> wrote:
They get the volunteer on the phone before starting the crossing. Well, standing still. That way there is nothing ?that needs to be done other than listening and talking. One hand holds the phone, and the other is free to use the Kane as usual. ?And as I mentioned,
this particular person was doing it in a residential neighborhood so no problem with a lot of noise and horns. Obviously, one would have to assess whether it could work in other types of environments or not. But it worked for this person in this particular
residential environment.
On Oct 25, 2023, at 7:38?AM, Gerald Levy via groups.io <bwaylimited@...> wrote:
?
And how does this person use her smarphone while simultaneously scanning with her cane? Seems to me that it would be kind of awkward to futz around with the touchscreen while gripping a cane. And unless she holds
the phone close to her ear, how is she able to hear the directions spoken by a volunteer above all the horn honking and other noise at a busy intersection? ?
Gerald
On 10/25/2023 10:24 AM, Patty Arnold wrote:
I also know someone who uses volunteers through their smart phone to let them know whether or not they are veering. The person who is blind ?obviously has to have all the correct training and know what to do to compensate. In one case, the person used the smart
phone in a residential area and it made her able to then get across the street without veering into the side road. This was initially done in the presence of her O and M instructor to make sure it was actually being done safely and successfully. ?It seems
to work for her.
?
Walking quickly seems to help too.?
Hello,
If you use the iOS app OKO and there's a stoplight, you can keep yourself oriented to the stoplight which will keep you from veering significantly. It requires you to hold the phone steady (either on a neck strap or in your hand).
Thanks,
On Wed, Oct 25, 2023 at 6:16?AM Gerald Levy via
<bwaylimited= [email protected]> wrote:
Veering off course seems to be a problem for many cane users.? There is no easy solution.? Some exceptional blind cane users claim they can guide themselves in a straight line by using echolocation like a bat, basically flicking their tongues back and forthe
like a freaking reptile to sense environmental vibrations to guide them.? A blind O&M instructor named Dan Kish has tried to popularize the use of echolocation by blind pedestrians, but there is a lot of controversy over whether this technique really works
or is just a bunch of malarkey. And of course, echolocation would be totally useless for someone who is also deaf or hearing impaired in addition to being blind, and sadly, most O&M instructors have no clue how to train a blind client who is also hearing impaired
and do not understand that wearing hearing aids is not a panacea. Some busy intersections in major cities now have audible traffic signals that make it a little easier for blind pedestrians to guide themselves in a straight line from one side of the street
to the other, but they are not always kept in working order and they tend to be few and far between, and incredibly, their installation has been ? opposed by the largest, so-called blindness advocacy organization in the US. ??
Gerald
On 10/25/2023 12:43 AM, Madison Martin wrote:
Hi all, I tend to veer a lot especially when crossing streets, my instructor says this is normal but I still find it annoying. Is this true and if so is there anything that I can do to prevent it from happening alltogether or at least reduce
the chances of it happening? If it maters at all I use a folding cane with a roller ball tip because apparently it works the best on all surfaces. Look forward to any thoughts that anyone has. Thanks Madison
|
They get the volunteer on the phone before starting the crossing. Well, standing still. That way there is nothing ?that needs to be done other than listening and talking. One hand holds the phone, and the other is free to use the Kane as usual. ?And as I mentioned,
this particular person was doing it in a residential neighborhood so no problem with a lot of noise and horns. Obviously, one would have to assess whether it could work in other types of environments or not. But it worked for this person in this particular
residential environment.
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On Oct 25, 2023, at 7:38?AM, Gerald Levy via groups.io <bwaylimited@...> wrote:
?
And how does this person use her smarphone while simultaneously scanning with her cane? Seems to me that it would be kind of awkward to futz around with the touchscreen while gripping a cane. And unless she holds
the phone close to her ear, how is she able to hear the directions spoken by a volunteer above all the horn honking and other noise at a busy intersection? ?
Gerald
On 10/25/2023 10:24 AM, Patty Arnold wrote:
I also know someone who uses volunteers through their smart phone to let them know whether or not they are veering. The person who is blind ?obviously has to have all the correct training and know what to do to compensate. In one case, the person used the smart
phone in a residential area and it made her able to then get across the street without veering into the side road. This was initially done in the presence of her O and M instructor to make sure it was actually being done safely and successfully. ?It seems
to work for her.
?
Walking quickly seems to help too.?
Hello,
If you use the iOS app OKO and there's a stoplight, you can keep yourself oriented to the stoplight which will keep you from veering significantly. It requires you to hold the phone steady (either on a neck strap or in your hand).
Thanks,
On Wed, Oct 25, 2023 at 6:16?AM Gerald Levy via
<bwaylimited= [email protected]> wrote:
Veering off course seems to be a problem for many cane users.? There is no easy solution.? Some exceptional blind cane users claim they can guide themselves in a straight line by using echolocation like a bat, basically flicking their tongues back and forthe
like a freaking reptile to sense environmental vibrations to guide them.? A blind O&M instructor named Dan Kish has tried to popularize the use of echolocation by blind pedestrians, but there is a lot of controversy over whether this technique really works
or is just a bunch of malarkey. And of course, echolocation would be totally useless for someone who is also deaf or hearing impaired in addition to being blind, and sadly, most O&M instructors have no clue how to train a blind client who is also hearing impaired
and do not understand that wearing hearing aids is not a panacea. Some busy intersections in major cities now have audible traffic signals that make it a little easier for blind pedestrians to guide themselves in a straight line from one side of the street
to the other, but they are not always kept in working order and they tend to be few and far between, and incredibly, their installation has been ? opposed by the largest, so-called blindness advocacy organization in the US. ??
Gerald
On 10/25/2023 12:43 AM, Madison Martin wrote:
Hi all,
I tend to veer a lot especially when crossing streets, my instructor says this is normal but I still find it annoying. Is this true and if so is there anything that I can do to prevent it from happening alltogether or at least reduce
the chances of it happening? If it maters at all I use a folding cane with a roller ball tip because apparently it works the best on all surfaces. Look forward to any thoughts that anyone has. Thanks
Madison
|
And how does this
person use her smarphone while simultaneously scanning with her
cane? Seems to me that it would be kind of awkward to futz
around with the touchscreen while gripping a cane. And unless
she holds the phone close to her ear, how is she able to hear
the directions spoken by a volunteer above all the horn honking
and other noise at a busy intersection? ?
Gerald
On 10/25/2023 10:24 AM, Patty Arnold
wrote:
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
I also know someone who uses volunteers through their smart phone
to let them know whether or not they are veering. The person who
is blind ?obviously has to have all the correct training and know
what to do to compensate. In one case, the person used the smart
phone in a residential area and it made her able to then get
across the street without veering into the side road. This was
initially done in the presence of her O and M instructor to make
sure it was actually being done safely and successfully. ?It seems
to work for her.
?
Walking quickly seems to help too.?
Hello,
If you use the iOS app OKO and there's a
stoplight, you can keep yourself oriented to the
stoplight which will keep you from veering
significantly. It requires you to hold the phone
steady (either on a neck strap or in your hand).
Thanks,
On Wed, Oct 25, 2023
at 6:16?AM Gerald Levy via
<bwaylimited= [email protected]>
wrote:
Veering off course seems to be a problem for
many cane users.? There is no easy solution.?
Some exceptional blind cane users claim they can
guide themselves in a straight line by using
echolocation like a bat, basically flicking
their tongues back and forthe like a freaking
reptile to sense environmental vibrations to
guide them.? A blind O&M instructor named
Dan Kish has tried to popularize the use of
echolocation by blind pedestrians, but there is
a lot of controversy over whether this technique
really works or is just a bunch of malarkey. And
of course, echolocation would be totally useless
for someone who is also deaf or hearing impaired
in addition to being blind, and sadly, most
O&M instructors have no clue how to train a
blind client who is also hearing impaired and do
not understand that wearing hearing aids is not
a panacea. Some busy intersections in major
cities now have audible traffic signals that
make it a little easier for blind pedestrians to
guide themselves in a straight line from one
side of the street to the other, but they are
not always kept in working order and they tend
to be few and far between, and incredibly, their
installation has been ? opposed by the largest,
so-called blindness advocacy organization in the
US. ??
Gerald
On 10/25/2023 12:43 AM, Madison Martin wrote:
Hi all,
I tend to veer a
lot especially when crossing streets, my
instructor says this is normal but I still
find it annoying. Is this true and if so
is there anything that I can do to prevent
it from happening alltogether or at least
reduce the chances of it happening? If it
maters at all I use a folding cane with a
roller ball tip because apparently it
works the best on all surfaces. Look
forward to any thoughts that anyone has.
Thanks
Madison
|
I also know someone who uses volunteers through their smart phone to let them know whether or not they are veering. The person who is blind ?obviously has to have all the correct training and know what to do to compensate. In one case, the person used the smart
phone in a residential area and it made her able to then get across the street without veering into the side road. This was initially done in the presence of her O and M instructor to make sure it was actually being done safely and successfully. ?It seems
to work for her.
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On Oct 25, 2023, at 7:01?AM, Laura Messinger via groups.io <messingerlaura@...> wrote:
?
Walking quickly seems to help too.?
Hello,
If you use the iOS app OKO and there's a stoplight, you can keep yourself oriented to the stoplight which will keep you from veering significantly. It requires you to hold the phone steady (either on a neck strap or in your hand).
Thanks,
On Wed, Oct 25, 2023 at 6:16?AM Gerald Levy via
<bwaylimited= [email protected]> wrote:
Veering off course seems to be a problem for many cane users.? There is no easy solution.? Some exceptional blind cane users claim they can guide themselves in a straight line by using echolocation like a bat, basically
flicking their tongues back and forthe like a freaking reptile to sense environmental vibrations to guide them.? A blind O&M instructor named Dan Kish has tried to popularize the use of echolocation by blind pedestrians, but there is a lot of controversy over
whether this technique really works or is just a bunch of malarkey. And of course, echolocation would be totally useless for someone who is also deaf or hearing impaired in addition to being blind, and sadly, most O&M instructors have no clue how to train
a blind client who is also hearing impaired and do not understand that wearing hearing aids is not a panacea. Some busy intersections in major cities now have audible traffic signals that make it a little easier for blind pedestrians to guide themselves in
a straight line from one side of the street to the other, but they are not always kept in working order and they tend to be few and far between, and incredibly, their installation has been ? opposed by the largest, so-called blindness advocacy organization
in the US. ??
Gerald
On 10/25/2023 12:43 AM, Madison Martin wrote:
Hi all,
I tend to veer a lot especially when crossing streets, my instructor says this is normal but I still find it annoying. Is this true and if so is there anything that I can do to prevent it from happening alltogether or at least reduce
the chances of it happening? If it maters at all I use a folding cane with a roller ball tip because apparently it works the best on all surfaces. Look forward to any thoughts that anyone has. Thanks
Madison
|
Hi Madison,
You are not alone - there are many travelers who veer when crossing streets! There are so many things that can cause veering. Can I ask some questions to see if we can determine what is causing you to veer and then we can brainstorm things to try?
Do you veer into or away from the intersection? Does it make a difference if the intersection is on your right or on your left?? Do you veer when walking down a hallway, sidewalk or through open spaces? Do you shoreline or trail the wall or grass line? What do you use to line up or for you line of direction when crossing an intersection? Does it matter what kind of curb is at the intersection?
If it is possible, have someone video tape you while approaching, waiting at the curb and crossing an intersection? (If you are able to safely get a video and you do not want to share the video on the list serve, feel free to send it directly to me. I’ll be happy to review it and hopefully give you some pointers.)
Diane
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
Walking quickly seems to help too.? Hello, If you use the iOS app OKO and there's a stoplight, you can keep yourself oriented to the stoplight which will keep you from veering significantly. It requires you to hold the phone steady (either on a neck strap or in your hand). Thanks,
On Wed, Oct 25, 2023 at 6:16?AM Gerald Levy via ??<bwaylimited= [email protected]> wrote:
Veering off course seems to be a problem for many cane users.? There is no easy solution.? Some exceptional blind cane users claim they can guide themselves in a straight line by using echolocation like a bat, basically flicking their tongues back and forthe like a freaking reptile to sense environmental vibrations to guide them.? A blind O&M instructor named Dan Kish has tried to popularize the use of echolocation by blind pedestrians, but there is a lot of controversy over whether this technique really works or is just a bunch of malarkey. And of course, echolocation would be totally useless for someone who is also deaf or hearing impaired in addition to being blind, and sadly, most O&M instructors have no clue how to train a blind client who is also hearing impaired and do not understand that wearing hearing aids is not a panacea. Some busy intersections in major cities now have audible traffic signals that make it a little easier for blind pedestrians to guide themselves in a straight line from one side of the street to the other, but they are not always kept in working order and they tend to be few and far between, and incredibly, their installation has been ? opposed by the largest, so-called blindness advocacy organization in the US. ???
Gerald?
On 10/25/2023 12:43 AM, Madison Martin wrote:
Hi all, I tend to veer a lot especially when crossing streets, my instructor says this is normal but I still find it annoying. Is this true and if so is there anything that I can do to prevent it from happening alltogether or at least reduce the chances of it happening? If it maters at all I use a folding cane with a roller ball tip because apparently it works the best on all surfaces. Look forward to any thoughts that anyone has. Thanks Madison
|
Also, if you have good parallel traffic, use it as a source on which to focus. Use what I call the vanishing point method, listening as the traffic passes you and heads away from you, keeping that point at which the sound disappears just to your left as you walk.?
Ooo though is a great app though for alignment as long as the traffic signals are placed within the crosswalk.??
Jenine Stanley Director, Customer Success & Engagement Aira Tech Corp. jenine.stanley@... Direct Dial: 1-614-600-7408
Access to visual information is a human right.? Customer Care? 1-800-835-1934 support@... Learn more about visual interpreting at http://aira.io. Podcast Feed: https://pinecast.com/feed/Airacast Youtube: https://youtube.com/c/airaio RSS Feed: https://aira.io/feed
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On Oct 25, 2023, at 10:01?AM, Laura Messinger <messingerlaura@...> wrote:
Walking quickly seems to help too.? Hello, If you use the iOS app OKO and there's a stoplight, you can keep yourself oriented to the stoplight which will keep you from veering significantly. It requires you to hold the phone steady (either on a neck strap or in your hand). Thanks,
On Wed, Oct 25, 2023 at 6:16?AM Gerald Levy via <bwaylimited= [email protected]> wrote:
Veering off course
seems to be a problem for many cane users.? There is no easy
solution.? Some exceptional blind cane users claim they can
guide themselves in a straight line by using echolocation like a
bat, basically flicking their tongues back and forthe like a
freaking reptile to sense environmental vibrations to guide
them.? A blind O&M instructor named Dan Kish has tried to
popularize the use of echolocation by blind pedestrians, but
there is a lot of controversy over whether this technique really
works or is just a bunch of malarkey. And of course,
echolocation would be totally useless for someone who is also
deaf or hearing impaired in addition to being blind, and sadly,
most O&M instructors have no clue how to train a blind
client who is also hearing impaired and do not understand that
wearing hearing aids is not a panacea. Some busy intersections
in major cities now have audible traffic signals that make it a
little easier for blind pedestrians to guide themselves in a
straight line from one side of the street to the other, but they
are not always kept in working order and they tend to be few and
far between, and incredibly, their installation has been ?
opposed by the largest, so-called blindness advocacy
organization in the US. ??
Gerald
On 10/25/2023 12:43 AM, Madison Martin
wrote:
Hi all, I tend to veer a lot especially when
crossing streets, my instructor says this is normal but I
still find it annoying. Is this true and if so is there
anything that I can do to prevent it from happening
alltogether or at least reduce the chances of it happening?
If it maters at all I use a folding cane with a roller ball
tip because apparently it works the best on all surfaces.
Look forward to any thoughts that anyone has. Thanks Madison
|
Walking quickly seems to help too.?
Hello, If you use the iOS app OKO and there's a stoplight, you can keep yourself oriented to the stoplight which will keep you from veering significantly. It requires you to hold the phone steady (either on a neck strap or in your hand). Thanks,
On Wed, Oct 25, 2023 at 6:16?AM Gerald Levy via <bwaylimited= [email protected]> wrote:
Veering off course
seems to be a problem for many cane users.? There is no easy
solution.? Some exceptional blind cane users claim they can
guide themselves in a straight line by using echolocation like a
bat, basically flicking their tongues back and forthe like a
freaking reptile to sense environmental vibrations to guide
them.? A blind O&M instructor named Dan Kish has tried to
popularize the use of echolocation by blind pedestrians, but
there is a lot of controversy over whether this technique really
works or is just a bunch of malarkey. And of course,
echolocation would be totally useless for someone who is also
deaf or hearing impaired in addition to being blind, and sadly,
most O&M instructors have no clue how to train a blind
client who is also hearing impaired and do not understand that
wearing hearing aids is not a panacea. Some busy intersections
in major cities now have audible traffic signals that make it a
little easier for blind pedestrians to guide themselves in a
straight line from one side of the street to the other, but they
are not always kept in working order and they tend to be few and
far between, and incredibly, their installation has been ?
opposed by the largest, so-called blindness advocacy
organization in the US. ??
Gerald
On 10/25/2023 12:43 AM, Madison Martin
wrote:
Hi all,
I tend to veer a lot especially when
crossing streets, my instructor says this is normal but I
still find it annoying. Is this true and if so is there
anything that I can do to prevent it from happening
alltogether or at least reduce the chances of it happening?
If it maters at all I use a folding cane with a roller ball
tip because apparently it works the best on all surfaces.
Look forward to any thoughts that anyone has. Thanks
Madison
|
TRINA BOYD-PRATT
Chris Tabb