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Re: ADA question - rolling stand for TV
Might be a little hokey but a PVC frame around the outside would create a boundary that could easily be set wherever the TV is used (can be set up like tinker toys if unglued).?
-- Sent from iPhone chris@... 512.660.2750
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On Aug 14, 2024, at 4:27?PM, HOLLINGER, KEVIN via groups.io <kevin.hollinger@...> wrote:
?
Yes, I noticed that and how the ¡®traditional¡¯ grip and cane placement were utilized though a pure white long cane¡ very PC¡.
?
This is in the classroom and the student is not using the long cane ¨C the admin? is asking if what they purchased was a poor choice based on ADA requirements which is why I¡¯m looking for exact guidance on
what the ADA says about moveable stands. If this were a stationary display sign or another object, it would not be within the guidelines in my opinion.
K
?
?
?
?
Kevin J. Hollinger
Teacher of the Visually Impaired
Orientation & Mobility Specialist
Assistive Technology Instructional Specialist ?
Francis Howell School District Vision Program
636-851-6143 voice
636-851-4133 fax
?
?
Kevin,
If you use the example if the sculpture in the video, that may give you a sense of the safety area around the mobile AV cart.?
The wheels and bars close to the ground make it detectable by the cane at certain areas, it is just determining if extends beyond the number of inches specified in the video.?
By the way, did you notice the animated character was ¡°in step¡± with his cane?
?
Fantastic video¡ wow! Awesome, thanks, Chris, but I¡¯m still looking for guidance on this situation (see actual pics of stand below). The pictures show a large (maybe 55-60¡± monitor
on a rolling stand. The stand is black with 2 v-shaped legs extending from the front and 2 shorter ones out the back.
Appreciate you all!
Kevin
?
?
?
?
?
Kevin J. Hollinger
Teacher of the Visually Impaired
Orientation & Mobility Specialist
Assistive Technology Instructional Specialist ?
Francis Howell School District Vision Program
636-851-6143 voice
636-851-4133 fax
?
?
This might shed some light¡
¡ª
Christopher J. Tabb, M.A., COMS
chris@...
Mobile:??512.660.2750
Image: ACVREP Digital Badge for COMS
Confidentiality Notice: This e-mail and?any attachments are intended only for the?individual
or company to which it is?addressed and may contain proprietary?information which is intended only for?dissemination to its intended recipients. Further, this e-mail may also contain?Protected Health Information and related?materials whose usage & disclosure
is?further governed by HIPAA//FERPA?and?other federal regulations. If you are not?the intended recipient, be advised that any?unauthorized use, disclosure, copying,?distribution, or the taking of any action in?reliance on the information contained?herein is
strictly prohibited. If you have?received this e-mail and are not the?intended recipient, you are instructed to?notify the sender by reply e-mail and?destroy all copies of the original message.
?
On Aug 14, 2024, at 1:43?PM, Dona Sauerburger <dona@...> wrote:
?
Kevin, what an interesting question! ?I¡¯m copying this to the Environmental Access Committee of AERs O&M Division.
Did you find anything in the regs about things projecting into the public right of way (or where you¡¯d expect people to walk)? ?I¡¯d think this fits
into that unless it¡¯s tucked away somewhere that people are not expected to walk.
Meanwhile, we kind of have a responsibility for creating a safe environment that goes beyond regulations, and your idea of putting something on the ground detectable by cane sounds like the perfect
solution! ?Unless you¡¯re looking for regulations to convince administrators to make it safe?
¡ª Dona
Certified Orientation and Mobility Specialist for the blind
?
I need help with a potential ADA question.?
The picture below depicts a rolling stand that mounts a TV that is used in a classroom (for projection ¨C not an interactive whiteboard).
The front 2 legs stick out in a ¡®V-shaped¡¯ design significantly further than the ¡®base¡¯ of the stand which then has 2 smaller, ¡®v-shaped¡¯ legs sticking out the back from the base.
There is no ¡®barrier¡¯ on the right and left sides so a person/student could walk into the side of the tv frame.?
Does the ADA regulate this type of mounting system? I¡¯ve been through the access board website and cannot find a definitive answer.
One could easily ¡®candy cane¡¯ the legs with high contrast tape to bring visual attention in case of low contrast or possibly position the stand/tv between bookshelves or other ¡®barriers¡¯
to reduce the faceplant into the sides of the monitor. Or, consider installing pool noodles or pipe insulation around the frame of the tv, too¡. But, ultimately, does the design of this stand create a situation of ADA noncompliance? The image below is similar
to the actual one I¡¯m referring to.
Kevin J. Hollinger
Teacher of the Visually Impaired?
Orientation & Mobility Specialist
Assistive Technology Instructional Specialist ?
Francis Howell School District Vision Program?
636-851-6143 voice
636-851-4133 fax
This e-mail transmission from the Francis Howell School District including any accompanying data or files is confidential and is intended only for
the use of the named recipient. If you are not the intended recipient, an addressee, or the person responsible for delivering this to an addressee, you are hereby notified that reading, using, copying, or distributing any part of this message is strictly prohibited.
If you receive this message in error, or are not the named recipient(s), please notify the sender at the email address above, delete this email from your computer, and destroy any copies in any form immediately. Improper retention of this e-mail and any attachment(s)
to this e-mail could subject you to legal action under pertinent federal and state statutes, and result in civil and criminal penalties.
?
This e-mail transmission from the Francis Howell School District including any accompanying data or files is confidential and is intended only for the use of the named recipient. If you are not the intended recipient,
an addressee, or the person responsible for delivering this to an addressee, you are hereby notified that reading, using, copying, or distributing any part of this message is strictly prohibited. If you receive this message in error, or are not the named recipient(s),
please notify the sender at the email address above, delete this email from your computer, and destroy any copies in any form immediately. Improper retention of this e-mail and any attachment(s) to this e-mail could subject you to legal action under pertinent
federal and state statutes, and result in civil and criminal penalties.
<rolling monitor stand 01.jpg>
<rollinger monitor stand 02.jpg>
This e-mail transmission from the Francis Howell School District including any accompanying data or files is confidential and is intended only for the use of the named recipient. If you are not the intended recipient, an addressee, or the person responsible
for delivering this to an addressee, you are hereby notified that reading, using, copying, or distributing any part of this message is strictly prohibited. If you receive this message in error, or are not the named recipient(s), please notify the sender at
the email address above, delete this email from your computer, and destroy any copies in any form immediately. Improper retention of this e-mail and any attachment(s) to this e-mail could subject you to legal action under pertinent federal and state statutes,
and result in civil and criminal penalties.
|
Re: ADA question - rolling stand for TV
Yes, I noticed that and how the ¡®traditional¡¯ grip and cane placement were utilized though a pure white long cane¡ very PC¡.
?
This is in the classroom and the student is not using the long cane ¨C the admin? is asking if what they purchased was a poor choice based on ADA requirements which is why I¡¯m looking for exact guidance on
what the ADA says about moveable stands. If this were a stationary display sign or another object, it would not be within the guidelines in my opinion.
K
?
?
?
?
Kevin J. Hollinger
Teacher of the Visually Impaired
Orientation & Mobility Specialist
Assistive Technology Instructional Specialist ?
Francis Howell School District Vision Program
636-851-6143 voice
636-851-4133 fax
?
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Show quoted text
From: [email protected] <[email protected]>
On Behalf Of Chris Tabb
Sent: Wednesday, August 14, 2024 5:19 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [OandM] ADA question - rolling stand for TV
?
Kevin,
If you use the example if the sculpture in the video, that may give you a sense of the safety area around the mobile AV cart.?
The wheels and bars close to the ground make it detectable by the cane at certain areas, it is just determining if extends beyond the number of inches specified in the video.?
By the way, did you notice the animated character was ¡°in step¡± with his cane?
?
Fantastic video¡ wow! Awesome, thanks, Chris, but I¡¯m still looking for guidance on this situation (see actual pics of stand below). The pictures show a large (maybe 55-60¡± monitor
on a rolling stand. The stand is black with 2 v-shaped legs extending from the front and 2 shorter ones out the back.
Appreciate you all!
Kevin
?
?
?
?
?
Kevin J. Hollinger
Teacher of the Visually Impaired
Orientation & Mobility Specialist
Assistive Technology Instructional Specialist ?
Francis Howell School District Vision Program
636-851-6143 voice
636-851-4133 fax
?
?
This might shed some light¡
¡ª
Christopher J. Tabb, M.A., COMS
chris@...
Mobile:??512.660.2750
Image: ACVREP Digital Badge for COMS
Confidentiality Notice: This e-mail and?any attachments are intended only for the?individual
or company to which it is?addressed and may contain proprietary?information which is intended only for?dissemination to its intended recipients. Further, this e-mail may also contain?Protected Health Information and related?materials whose usage & disclosure
is?further governed by HIPAA//FERPA?and?other federal regulations. If you are not?the intended recipient, be advised that any?unauthorized use, disclosure, copying,?distribution, or the taking of any action in?reliance on the information contained?herein is
strictly prohibited. If you have?received this e-mail and are not the?intended recipient, you are instructed to?notify the sender by reply e-mail and?destroy all copies of the original message.
?
On Aug 14, 2024, at 1:43?PM, Dona Sauerburger <dona@...> wrote:
?
Kevin, what an interesting question! ?I¡¯m copying this to the Environmental Access Committee of AERs O&M Division.
Did you find anything in the regs about things projecting into the public right of way (or where you¡¯d expect people to walk)? ?I¡¯d think this fits
into that unless it¡¯s tucked away somewhere that people are not expected to walk.
Meanwhile, we kind of have a responsibility for creating a safe environment that goes beyond regulations, and your idea of putting something on the ground detectable by cane sounds like the perfect
solution! ?Unless you¡¯re looking for regulations to convince administrators to make it safe?
¡ª Dona
Certified Orientation and Mobility Specialist for the blind
?
I need help with a potential ADA question.?
The picture below depicts a rolling stand that mounts a TV that is used in a classroom (for projection ¨C not an interactive whiteboard).
The front 2 legs stick out in a ¡®V-shaped¡¯ design significantly further than the ¡®base¡¯ of the stand which then has 2 smaller, ¡®v-shaped¡¯ legs sticking out the back from the base.
There is no ¡®barrier¡¯ on the right and left sides so a person/student could walk into the side of the tv frame.?
Does the ADA regulate this type of mounting system? I¡¯ve been through the access board website and cannot find a definitive answer.
One could easily ¡®candy cane¡¯ the legs with high contrast tape to bring visual attention in case of low contrast or possibly position the stand/tv between bookshelves or other ¡®barriers¡¯
to reduce the faceplant into the sides of the monitor. Or, consider installing pool noodles or pipe insulation around the frame of the tv, too¡. But, ultimately, does the design of this stand create a situation of ADA noncompliance? The image below is similar
to the actual one I¡¯m referring to.
Kevin J. Hollinger
Teacher of the Visually Impaired?
Orientation & Mobility Specialist
Assistive Technology Instructional Specialist ?
Francis Howell School District Vision Program?
636-851-6143 voice
636-851-4133 fax
This e-mail transmission from the Francis Howell School District including any accompanying data or files is confidential and is intended only for
the use of the named recipient. If you are not the intended recipient, an addressee, or the person responsible for delivering this to an addressee, you are hereby notified that reading, using, copying, or distributing any part of this message is strictly prohibited.
If you receive this message in error, or are not the named recipient(s), please notify the sender at the email address above, delete this email from your computer, and destroy any copies in any form immediately. Improper retention of this e-mail and any attachment(s)
to this e-mail could subject you to legal action under pertinent federal and state statutes, and result in civil and criminal penalties.
?
This e-mail transmission from the Francis Howell School District including any accompanying data or files is confidential and is intended only for the use of the named recipient. If you are not the intended recipient,
an addressee, or the person responsible for delivering this to an addressee, you are hereby notified that reading, using, copying, or distributing any part of this message is strictly prohibited. If you receive this message in error, or are not the named recipient(s),
please notify the sender at the email address above, delete this email from your computer, and destroy any copies in any form immediately. Improper retention of this e-mail and any attachment(s) to this e-mail could subject you to legal action under pertinent
federal and state statutes, and result in civil and criminal penalties.
<rolling monitor stand 01.jpg>
<rollinger monitor stand 02.jpg>
This e-mail transmission from the Francis Howell School District including any accompanying data or files is confidential and is intended only for the use of the named recipient. If you are not the intended recipient, an addressee, or the person responsible
for delivering this to an addressee, you are hereby notified that reading, using, copying, or distributing any part of this message is strictly prohibited. If you receive this message in error, or are not the named recipient(s), please notify the sender at
the email address above, delete this email from your computer, and destroy any copies in any form immediately. Improper retention of this e-mail and any attachment(s) to this e-mail could subject you to legal action under pertinent federal and state statutes,
and result in civil and criminal penalties.
|
Re: ADA question - rolling stand for TV
Kevin,
If you use the example if the sculpture in the video, that may give you a sense of the safety area around the mobile AV cart.?
The wheels and bars close to the ground make it detectable by the cane at certain areas, it is just determining if extends beyond the number of inches specified in the video.?
Maybe that will help.?
By the way, did you notice the animated character was ¡°in step¡± with his cane? -- Sent from iPhone chris@... 512.660.2750
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On Aug 14, 2024, at 3:37?PM, HOLLINGER, KEVIN via groups.io <kevin.hollinger@...> wrote:
?
Fantastic video¡ wow! Awesome, thanks, Chris, but I¡¯m still looking for guidance on this situation (see actual pics of stand below). The pictures show a large (maybe 55-60¡± monitor on a rolling stand. The
stand is black with 2 v-shaped legs extending from the front and 2 shorter ones out the back.
Appreciate you all!
Kevin
?
?
?
?
?
Kevin J. Hollinger
Teacher of the Visually Impaired
Orientation & Mobility Specialist
Assistive Technology Instructional Specialist ?
Francis Howell School District Vision Program
636-851-6143 voice
636-851-4133 fax
?
?
This might shed some light¡
¡ª
Christopher J. Tabb, M.A., COMS
chris@...
Mobile:??512.660.2750
<image002.png>
Image: ACVREP Digital Badge for COMS
Confidentiality Notice: This e-mail and?any attachments are intended only for the?individual
or company to which it is?addressed and may contain proprietary?information which is intended only for?dissemination to its intended recipients. Further, this e-mail may also contain?Protected Health Information and related?materials whose usage & disclosure
is?further governed by HIPAA//FERPA?and?other federal regulations. If you are not?the intended recipient, be advised that any?unauthorized use, disclosure, copying,?distribution, or the taking of any action in?reliance on the information contained?herein is
strictly prohibited. If you have?received this e-mail and are not the?intended recipient, you are instructed to?notify the sender by reply e-mail and?destroy all copies of the original message.
?
On Aug 14, 2024, at 1:43?PM, Dona Sauerburger <dona@...> wrote:
?
Kevin, what an interesting question! ?I¡¯m copying this to the Environmental Access Committee of AERs O&M Division.
Did you find anything in the regs about things projecting into the public right of way (or where you¡¯d expect people to walk)? ?I¡¯d think this fits
into that unless it¡¯s tucked away somewhere that people are not expected to walk.
Meanwhile, we kind of have a responsibility for creating a safe environment that goes beyond regulations, and your idea of putting something on the ground detectable by cane sounds like the perfect
solution! ?Unless you¡¯re looking for regulations to convince administrators to make it safe?
¡ª Dona
Certified Orientation and Mobility Specialist for the blind
?
I need help with a potential ADA question.?
The picture below depicts a rolling stand that mounts a TV that is used in a classroom (for projection ¨C not an interactive whiteboard).
The front 2 legs stick out in a ¡®V-shaped¡¯ design significantly further than the ¡®base¡¯ of the stand which then has 2 smaller, ¡®v-shaped¡¯ legs sticking out the back from the base.
There is no ¡®barrier¡¯ on the right and left sides so a person/student could walk into the side of the tv frame.?
Does the ADA regulate this type of mounting system? I¡¯ve been through the access board website and cannot find a definitive answer.
One could easily ¡®candy cane¡¯ the legs with high contrast tape to bring visual attention in case of low contrast or possibly position the stand/tv between bookshelves or other ¡®barriers¡¯
to reduce the faceplant into the sides of the monitor. Or, consider installing pool noodles or pipe insulation around the frame of the tv, too¡. But, ultimately, does the design of this stand create a situation of ADA noncompliance? The image below is similar
to the actual one I¡¯m referring to.
Kevin J. Hollinger
Teacher of the Visually Impaired?
Orientation & Mobility Specialist
Assistive Technology Instructional Specialist ?
Francis Howell School District Vision Program?
636-851-6143 voice
636-851-4133 fax
This e-mail transmission from the Francis Howell School District including any accompanying data or files is confidential and is intended only for
the use of the named recipient. If you are not the intended recipient, an addressee, or the person responsible for delivering this to an addressee, you are hereby notified that reading, using, copying, or distributing any part of this message is strictly prohibited.
If you receive this message in error, or are not the named recipient(s), please notify the sender at the email address above, delete this email from your computer, and destroy any copies in any form immediately. Improper retention of this e-mail and any attachment(s)
to this e-mail could subject you to legal action under pertinent federal and state statutes, and result in civil and criminal penalties.
?
This e-mail transmission from the Francis Howell School District including any accompanying data or files is confidential and is intended only for the use of the named recipient. If you are not the intended recipient, an addressee, or the person responsible
for delivering this to an addressee, you are hereby notified that reading, using, copying, or distributing any part of this message is strictly prohibited. If you receive this message in error, or are not the named recipient(s), please notify the sender at
the email address above, delete this email from your computer, and destroy any copies in any form immediately. Improper retention of this e-mail and any attachment(s) to this e-mail could subject you to legal action under pertinent federal and state statutes,
and result in civil and criminal penalties.
<rolling monitor stand 01.jpg> <rollinger monitor stand 02.jpg>
|
Re: ADA question - rolling stand for TV
Fantastic video¡ wow! Awesome, thanks, Chris, but I¡¯m still looking for guidance on this situation (see actual pics of stand below). The pictures show a large (maybe 55-60¡± monitor on a rolling stand. The
stand is black with 2 v-shaped legs extending from the front and 2 shorter ones out the back.
Appreciate you all!
Kevin
?
?
?
?
?
Kevin J. Hollinger
Teacher of the Visually Impaired
Orientation & Mobility Specialist
Assistive Technology Instructional Specialist ?
Francis Howell School District Vision Program
636-851-6143 voice
636-851-4133 fax
?
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
From: [email protected] <[email protected]>
On Behalf Of Chris Tabb
Sent: Wednesday, August 14, 2024 2:46 PM
To: Open International O&M listserv <[email protected]>
Cc: AER EAC <aer-eac@...>
Subject: Re: [OandM] ADA question - rolling stand for TV
?
This might shed some light¡
¡ª
Christopher J. Tabb, M.A., COMS
chris@...
Mobile:??512.660.2750
Image: ACVREP Digital Badge for COMS
Confidentiality Notice: This e-mail and?any attachments are intended only for the?individual
or company to which it is?addressed and may contain proprietary?information which is intended only for?dissemination to its intended recipients. Further, this e-mail may also contain?Protected Health Information and related?materials whose usage & disclosure
is?further governed by HIPAA//FERPA?and?other federal regulations. If you are not?the intended recipient, be advised that any?unauthorized use, disclosure, copying,?distribution, or the taking of any action in?reliance on the information contained?herein is
strictly prohibited. If you have?received this e-mail and are not the?intended recipient, you are instructed to?notify the sender by reply e-mail and?destroy all copies of the original message.
?
On Aug 14, 2024, at 1:43?PM, Dona Sauerburger <dona@...> wrote:
?
Kevin, what an interesting question! ?I¡¯m copying this to the Environmental Access Committee of AERs O&M Division.
Did you find anything in the regs about things projecting into the public right of way (or where you¡¯d expect people to walk)? ?I¡¯d think this fits
into that unless it¡¯s tucked away somewhere that people are not expected to walk.
Meanwhile, we kind of have a responsibility for creating a safe environment that goes beyond regulations, and your idea of putting something on the ground detectable by cane sounds like the perfect
solution! ?Unless you¡¯re looking for regulations to convince administrators to make it safe?
¡ª Dona
Certified Orientation and Mobility Specialist for the blind
?
I need help with a potential ADA question.?
The picture below depicts a rolling stand that mounts a TV that is used in a classroom (for projection ¨C not an interactive whiteboard).
The front 2 legs stick out in a ¡®V-shaped¡¯ design significantly further than the ¡®base¡¯ of the stand which then has 2 smaller, ¡®v-shaped¡¯ legs sticking out the back from the base.
There is no ¡®barrier¡¯ on the right and left sides so a person/student could walk into the side of the tv frame.?
Does the ADA regulate this type of mounting system? I¡¯ve been through the access board website and cannot find a definitive answer.
One could easily ¡®candy cane¡¯ the legs with high contrast tape to bring visual attention in case of low contrast or possibly position the stand/tv between bookshelves or other ¡®barriers¡¯
to reduce the faceplant into the sides of the monitor. Or, consider installing pool noodles or pipe insulation around the frame of the tv, too¡. But, ultimately, does the design of this stand create a situation of ADA noncompliance? The image below is similar
to the actual one I¡¯m referring to.
Kevin J. Hollinger
Teacher of the Visually Impaired?
Orientation & Mobility Specialist
Assistive Technology Instructional Specialist ?
Francis Howell School District Vision Program?
636-851-6143 voice
636-851-4133 fax
This e-mail transmission from the Francis Howell School District including any accompanying data or files is confidential and is intended only for
the use of the named recipient. If you are not the intended recipient, an addressee, or the person responsible for delivering this to an addressee, you are hereby notified that reading, using, copying, or distributing any part of this message is strictly prohibited.
If you receive this message in error, or are not the named recipient(s), please notify the sender at the email address above, delete this email from your computer, and destroy any copies in any form immediately. Improper retention of this e-mail and any attachment(s)
to this e-mail could subject you to legal action under pertinent federal and state statutes, and result in civil and criminal penalties.
?
This e-mail transmission from the Francis Howell School District including any accompanying data or files is confidential and is intended only for the use of the named recipient. If you are not the intended recipient, an addressee, or the person responsible
for delivering this to an addressee, you are hereby notified that reading, using, copying, or distributing any part of this message is strictly prohibited. If you receive this message in error, or are not the named recipient(s), please notify the sender at
the email address above, delete this email from your computer, and destroy any copies in any form immediately. Improper retention of this e-mail and any attachment(s) to this e-mail could subject you to legal action under pertinent federal and state statutes,
and result in civil and criminal penalties.
|
Re: ADA question - rolling stand for TV
To Kevin Hollinger:
Coby here:
When I contacted Gemini ADA rep from the New Mexico governors commission On Disability, she sent me the following information.
Thank you.
Coby livingstone
|
Re: ADA question - rolling stand for TV
This might shed some light¡
| |
¡ªChristopher J. Tabb, M.A., COMSchris@...Mobile:??512.660.2750
Image: ACVREP Digital Badge for COMSConfidentiality Notice: This e-mail and?any attachments are intended only for the?individual or company to which it is?addressed and may contain proprietary?information which is intended only for?dissemination to its intended recipients. Further, this e-mail may also contain?Protected Health Information and related?materials whose usage & disclosure is?further governed by HIPAA//FERPA?and?other federal regulations. If you are not?the intended recipient, be advised that any?unauthorized use, disclosure, copying,?distribution, or the taking of any action in?reliance on the information contained?herein is strictly prohibited. If you have?received this e-mail and are not the?intended recipient, you are instructed to?notify the sender by reply e-mail and?destroy all copies of the original message.
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Show quoted text
On Aug 14, 2024, at 1:43?PM, Dona Sauerburger <dona@...> wrote:
Kevin, what an interesting question! ?I¡¯m copying this to the Environmental Access Committee of AERs O&M Division.
Did you find anything in the regs about things projecting into the public right of way (or where you¡¯d expect people to walk)? ?I¡¯d think this fits into that unless it¡¯s tucked away somewhere that people are not expected to walk.
Meanwhile, we kind of have a responsibility for creating a safe environment that goes beyond regulations, and your idea of putting something on the ground detectable by cane sounds like the perfect solution! ?Unless you¡¯re looking for regulations to convince administrators to make it safe?
¡ª Dona
¡ª¡ª¡ª¡ª¡ª¡ª¡ª¡ª¡ª
Dona Sauerburger, COMS
Certified Orientation and Mobility Specialist for the blind
?
Hi,?
I need help with a potential ADA question.?
The picture below depicts a rolling stand that mounts a TV that is used in a classroom (for projection ¨C not an interactive whiteboard).
The front 2 legs stick out in a ¡®V-shaped¡¯ design significantly further than the ¡®base¡¯ of the stand which then has 2 smaller, ¡®v-shaped¡¯ legs sticking out the back from the base. There is no ¡®barrier¡¯ on the right and left sides so a person/student could walk into the side of the tv frame.?
Does the ADA regulate this type of mounting system? I¡¯ve been through the access board website and cannot find a definitive answer.
One could easily ¡®candy cane¡¯ the legs with high contrast tape to bring visual attention in case of low contrast or possibly position the stand/tv between bookshelves or other ¡®barriers¡¯ to reduce the faceplant into the sides of the monitor. Or, consider installing pool noodles or pipe insulation around the frame of the tv, too¡. But, ultimately, does the design of this stand create a situation of ADA noncompliance? The image below is similar to the actual one I¡¯m referring to.
?
<image001.jpg>
?
?
?
?
Kevin J. Hollinger
Teacher of the Visually Impaired?
Orientation & Mobility Specialist
Assistive Technology Instructional Specialist ?
Francis Howell School District Vision Program?
636-851-6143 voice
636-851-4133 fax
?
This e-mail transmission from the Francis Howell School District including any accompanying data or files is confidential and is intended only for the use of the named recipient. If you are not the intended recipient, an addressee, or the person responsible for delivering this to an addressee, you are hereby notified that reading, using, copying, or distributing any part of this message is strictly prohibited. If you receive this message in error, or are not the named recipient(s), please notify the sender at the email address above, delete this email from your computer, and destroy any copies in any form immediately. Improper retention of this e-mail and any attachment(s) to this e-mail could subject you to legal action under pertinent federal and state statutes, and result in civil and criminal penalties.
Re: ADA question - rolling stand for TV
Kevin, what an interesting question! ?I¡¯m copying this to the Environmental Access Committee of AERs O&M Division.
Did you find anything in the regs about things projecting into the public right of way (or where you¡¯d expect people to walk)? ?I¡¯d think this fits into that unless it¡¯s tucked away somewhere that people are not expected to walk.
Meanwhile, we kind of have a responsibility for creating a safe environment that goes beyond regulations, and your idea of putting something on the ground detectable by cane sounds like the perfect solution! ?Unless you¡¯re looking for regulations to convince administrators to make it safe? ¡ª Dona ¡ª¡ª¡ª¡ª¡ª¡ª¡ª¡ª¡ª Dona Sauerburger, COMS Certified Orientation and Mobility Specialist for the blind www.sauerburger.org
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On Aug 14, 2024, at 3:23 PM, HOLLINGER, KEVIN via groups.io <kevin.hollinger@...> wrote:
?
Hi,
I need help with a potential ADA question.
The picture below depicts a rolling stand that mounts a TV that is used in a classroom (for projection ¨C not an interactive whiteboard).
The front 2 legs stick out in a ¡®V-shaped¡¯ design significantly further than the ¡®base¡¯ of the stand which then has 2 smaller, ¡®v-shaped¡¯ legs sticking out the back from the base. There is no ¡®barrier¡¯ on the right and left sides so a person/student
could walk into the side of the tv frame.
Does the ADA regulate this type of mounting system? I¡¯ve been through the access board website and cannot find a definitive answer.
One could easily ¡®candy cane¡¯ the legs with high contrast tape to bring visual attention in case of low contrast or possibly position the stand/tv between bookshelves or other ¡®barriers¡¯ to reduce the faceplant into the sides of the monitor.
Or, consider installing pool noodles or pipe insulation around the frame of the tv, too¡. But, ultimately, does the design of this stand create a situation of ADA noncompliance? The image below is similar to the actual one I¡¯m referring to.
?
?
?
?
?
Kevin J. Hollinger
Teacher of the Visually Impaired
Orientation & Mobility Specialist
Assistive Technology Instructional Specialist ?
Francis Howell School District Vision Program
636-851-6143 voice
636-851-4133 fax
?
This e-mail transmission from the Francis Howell School District including any accompanying data or files is confidential and is intended only for the use of the named recipient. If you are not the intended recipient, an addressee, or the person responsible
for delivering this to an addressee, you are hereby notified that reading, using, copying, or distributing any part of this message is strictly prohibited. If you receive this message in error, or are not the named recipient(s), please notify the sender at
the email address above, delete this email from your computer, and destroy any copies in any form immediately. Improper retention of this e-mail and any attachment(s) to this e-mail could subject you to legal action under pertinent federal and state statutes,
and result in civil and criminal penalties.
|
ADA question - rolling stand for TV
Hi,
I need help with a potential ADA question.
The picture below depicts a rolling stand that mounts a TV that is used in a classroom (for projection ¨C not an interactive whiteboard).
The front 2 legs stick out in a ¡®V-shaped¡¯ design significantly further than the ¡®base¡¯ of the stand which then has 2 smaller, ¡®v-shaped¡¯ legs sticking out the back from the base. There is no ¡®barrier¡¯ on the right and left sides so a person/student
could walk into the side of the tv frame.
Does the ADA regulate this type of mounting system? I¡¯ve been through the access board website and cannot find a definitive answer.
One could easily ¡®candy cane¡¯ the legs with high contrast tape to bring visual attention in case of low contrast or possibly position the stand/tv between bookshelves or other ¡®barriers¡¯ to reduce the faceplant into the sides of the monitor.
Or, consider installing pool noodles or pipe insulation around the frame of the tv, too¡. But, ultimately, does the design of this stand create a situation of ADA noncompliance? The image below is similar to the actual one I¡¯m referring to.
?
?
?
?
?
Kevin J. Hollinger
Teacher of the Visually Impaired
Orientation & Mobility Specialist
Assistive Technology Instructional Specialist ?
Francis Howell School District Vision Program
636-851-6143 voice
636-851-4133 fax
?
This e-mail transmission from the Francis Howell School District including any accompanying data or files is confidential and is intended only for the use of the named recipient. If you are not the intended recipient, an addressee, or the person responsible
for delivering this to an addressee, you are hereby notified that reading, using, copying, or distributing any part of this message is strictly prohibited. If you receive this message in error, or are not the named recipient(s), please notify the sender at
the email address above, delete this email from your computer, and destroy any copies in any form immediately. Improper retention of this e-mail and any attachment(s) to this e-mail could subject you to legal action under pertinent federal and state statutes,
and result in civil and criminal penalties.
|
Re: Fall risk/balance assessment
This is indeed an issue of concern, and I champion your research. I will offer some of my experiences with this issue. I do not know that I can propose any profound solutions. ? When I first became a COMS, my first employment was with Envision Vision Rehabilitation Clinic in Wichita, Kansas. Envision is a multi-faceted private, not for profit, service provider for people who are blind and low vision. In addition to my position as ?COMS, they had a staff OT, and an OT assistant who worked with her. Both of these individuals were very competent. Envision additionally had several PTs under contract. If clients had balance issues, and many did, I was expected to refer to OT or PT depending on the nature of the issue. I found the OT consultations to generally be useful. Most of the time, PTs simply approved whatever I was suggesting. ? I left Envision in 2017 and worked as a School COMS under contract with six school districts. All districts of course also had OTs and PTs under contract. I could occasionally consult with them, and generally felt I got the support I needed. I left ,my school practice in 2021. I am now semi-retired and work in private practice. I office out of a very small not for profit based in the Topeka, Kansas area. I do not have OTs or PTs on staff or under contract. I can suggest to clients that they consult an OT or PT, but the decision is really their¡¯s. I can not force them. I have never had to discontinue work with anyone because they refused to follow up on this suggestion, but I would do so if it were to occur and I felt the consultation was needed. ? The biggest issue I have had in private practice is that, if the individual has been prescribed and fitted with a support cane by a PT, and has then become legally blind, I want them to use a white support cane for identification purposes. I order a support cane of similar design and weight to the non-white cane that they have been using, and I adjust it to the exact height the PT has set their non-white cane to. ?I have run into a couple of vendors who will not sell white support canes to me because they only will sell under a prescription from a PT. ? I continue to pay for a full medical liability policy through HPSO. I have no experience, however, with complaints or suits occurring because a client has fallen. ? Michael Byington, Certified Orientation and Mobility Specialist (COMS) > President of Kansas Association for the Blind and Visually Impaired, Inc. >> Membership Coordinator for Friends In Art of the American Council of the Blind >> 712 S. Kansas Avenue >> Suite 414D-F >> Topeka, Kansas 66603 >> (785) 221-7111 >> ByingtonCOMS@... ? ?
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From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of ALLEN Deana * OCB
Sent: Tuesday, August 13, 2024 9:30 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: [OandM] Fall risk/balance assessment? Greetings, My colleagues and I are seeking information on best practices. We work with adults in the vocational rehabilitation department of a state agency, most of the work is center based or within the city.? The O&M staff is curious how O&Ms from similar backgrounds address balance concerns. Specifically, we would like to know how others assess and serve individuals who have a history of falls that cannot be accounted for by loss of vision alone. Our agency does not require medical records from our clients so we cannot glean any information from that source. Do you seek assessment from physical or occupational therapists? Which professional formal balance assessment is most appropriate for orientation and mobility? ? I know liability is a state-by-state issue, but what is your understanding of what can occur if an individual is injured after falling when they present with a fall history?? Any information or direction would be greatly appreciated by the O&M staff.? We want to serve our clients as safely and effectively as possible by addressing any balance concerns that might impact their training. ? Deana Allen COMS ?
|
Re: Fall risk/balance assessment
Hi Deana,
Wherever there is opportunity to collaborate with PT¡¯s, OT¡¯s, the local VA, local agencies on aging, etc., I encourage you to reach out to see what is already available and what folks are willing to work on together. We just presented for our county aging services in one of their fall prevention programs; they request this annualy to address the role of vision loss in connection with falls.?
Whatever you do with clients, it is important to clarify that you are not a PT, OT, MD, etc. (unless you also hold and maintain those additional credentials). We encourage people to be active and move, helping them address areas that make that possible is also part of what we do (just this guys opinion). I do regularly issue white, support canes from Ambutech. I set the length of the cane to the break in the wrist as learned from OT¡¯s and PT¡¯s, but always tell the client that I am not a PT, OT, doctor, etc. and encourage them to talk with their doctor or specialist to verify it is at the correct height. If more support is needed, I encourage them to consider a rollator style walker (but I do not issue those).?
When I have worked in organiztions where there are PT¡¯s and OT¡¯s on staff and in the same facility, the collaboration is easier. Arranging co-appointments to observe one another working with the learner is also a helpful strategy.?
Just as I encourage regular visits to the eye care specialist to monitor eye health, the audiologist to maintain hearing health, the same must be true if physicsl mobility challenges are present, whether orthopedic, neurological, neuropathy, etc. Helping them identify who can best meet their physical mobility needs is part of our responsibility, as well as connecting them with programs and activities that can develop their balance and reduce risk of falls.?
Here is a link to one of the LiveBinder tabs with information and programs to consider¡
|
--
Sent from iPhone
chris@...
512.660.2750
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Show quoted text
On Aug 14, 2024, at 8:42?AM, ALLEN Deana * OCB <deana.allen@...> wrote:
?
Greetings,
My colleagues and I are seeking information on best practices. We work with adults in the vocational rehabilitation department of a state agency, most of the work is center based
or within the city.? The O&M staff is curious how O&Ms from similar backgrounds address balance concerns. Specifically, we would like to know how others assess and serve individuals who have a history of falls that cannot be accounted for by loss of vision
alone. Our agency does not require medical records from our clients so we cannot glean any information from that source. Do you seek assessment from physical or occupational therapists? Which professional formal balance assessment is most appropriate for orientation
and mobility?
?
I know liability is a state-by-state issue, but what is your understanding of what can occur if an individual is injured after falling when they present with a fall history??
Any information or direction would be greatly appreciated by the O&M staff.? We want to serve our clients as safely and effectively as possible by addressing any balance concerns that might impact their training.
?
Deana Allen
COMS
?
Re: Fall risk/balance assessment
Wow, Deanna, great question, I look forward to some wisdom from folks on the list.
For myself, I always refer to PT, we (O&Ms) are not prepared to address those problems. ?I have once or twice suspended my training till I¡¯m satisfied that the balance issue is being addressed, as I¡¯m not comfortable being responsible for their safety if they have problems with falling, but that¡¯s rare, and I will resume before the balance issue is completely resolved if I feel confident I can take precautions recommended by the PT. ¡ª Dona ¡ª¡ª¡ª¡ª¡ª¡ª¡ª¡ª¡ª Dona Sauerburger, COMS Certified Orientation and Mobility Specialist for the blind www.sauerburger.org
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Show quoted text
On Aug 14, 2024, at 10:42 AM, ALLEN Deana * OCB <deana.allen@...> wrote:
?
Greetings,
My colleagues and I are seeking information on best practices. We work with adults in the vocational rehabilitation department of a state agency, most of the work is center based
or within the city.? The O&M staff is curious how O&Ms from similar backgrounds address balance concerns. Specifically, we would like to know how others assess and serve individuals who have a history of falls that cannot be accounted for by loss of vision
alone. Our agency does not require medical records from our clients so we cannot glean any information from that source. Do you seek assessment from physical or occupational therapists? Which professional formal balance assessment is most appropriate for orientation
and mobility?
?
I know liability is a state-by-state issue, but what is your understanding of what can occur if an individual is injured after falling when they present with a fall history??
Any information or direction would be greatly appreciated by the O&M staff.? We want to serve our clients as safely and effectively as possible by addressing any balance concerns that might impact their training.
?
Deana Allen
COMS
?
|
Fall risk/balance assessment
Greetings,
My colleagues and I are seeking information on best practices. We work with adults in the vocational rehabilitation department of a state agency, most of the work is center based
or within the city.? The O&M staff is curious how O&Ms from similar backgrounds address balance concerns. Specifically, we would like to know how others assess and serve individuals who have a history of falls that cannot be accounted for by loss of vision
alone. Our agency does not require medical records from our clients so we cannot glean any information from that source. Do you seek assessment from physical or occupational therapists? Which professional formal balance assessment is most appropriate for orientation
and mobility?
?
I know liability is a state-by-state issue, but what is your understanding of what can occur if an individual is injured after falling when they present with a fall history??
Any information or direction would be greatly appreciated by the O&M staff.? We want to serve our clients as safely and effectively as possible by addressing any balance concerns that might impact their training.
?
Deana Allen
COMS
?
|
Hi Joanna,?
I don¡¯t have a specific solution for this, but I wonder if The Lucky Fin Project could be a good resource for you. I¡¯m wondering if an adaptive device that someone with a limb difference and/or poor grip utilized for a barbell (also requiring quick release) could be assessed.?
I¡¯m assuming you¡¯ve consulted with OT and the students parents regarding any devices they may use at home. I can¡¯t help but think they¡¯ve problem solved for activities like biking and other sports.?
Looking forward to hearing what others have to say and best of luck to you!
Addie Yake M.S., COMS, GDMI
On Wed, Aug 7, 2024 at 5:53?AM Joanna Credeur via <joanna.credeur= [email protected]> wrote:
Good morning,
?
I have a cane-using 4th grade student with brachydactyly (see picture below; used with parent permission). She uses a silicone strap which allows
her to hold her cane steady to do diagonal cane technique, but it doesn¡¯t give her enough stability to sustain movement to do constant contact or touch and drag. Can anyone think of a way to adapt her cane or to form a grip that would give her enough stability
for movement, but also allow for quick release if needed?
?
Thanks in advance!
?
?
Joanna Credeur,
M.Ed., M.A., CTVI, COMS
Orientation & Mobility Specialist
Tennessee School for the Blind
?
O: (615) 231-7443 ??F: (615) 871-9312
C: (337) 842-8977
Joanna.Credeur@...
?
¡°Creating Contributing, Participating Members of Society¡±
?
?
--
Joanna Credeur, M.Ed., M.A., COMS
Orientation & Mobility Specialist
Tennessee School for the Blind
?
O: (615) 231-7443 ??F: (615) 871-9312
C: (337) 842-8977
Joanna.Credeur@...
?
![]()
?
¡°Creating Contributing, Participating Members of Society¡±
?
|
Perhaps reach out to Therese Wilkomm in New Hampshire. She is an AT specialist and is really good at coming up with modifications of all types.?
Kelly On Thu, Aug 8, 2024 at 11:44?AM Stumph, Kimberly A via <kimberly.a.stumph= [email protected]> wrote:
Have you considered using PolyMorph or another moldable thermoplastic beads to create a custom grip?
Kim Stumph COMS, CLVT, CVRT
?
?
EXTERNAL: This email originated from outside of the State of Maine Mail System. Do not click links or open attachments unless you recognize
the sender and know the content is safe.
Another option is to work with a PT or OT in developing a handle for the cane that might work for her?? Could she used an AMD which might help her, instead of having to sweep the cane?
Meg Robertson COMS
On Aug 7, 2024, at 3:05?PM, Chris Tabb <chris@...> wrote:
?
Joanna,
Have you considered the slim line cane from Ambutech? It¡¯s grip is soooo much more slender (and lighter) that it may be something your student could use without adaptation.?
?
?
I have a cane-using 4th?grade student with brachydactyly (see picture below; used with parent permission). She uses
a silicone strap which allows her to hold her cane steady to do diagonal cane technique, but it doesn¡¯t give her enough stability to sustain movement to do constant contact or touch and drag. Can anyone think of a way to adapt her cane or to form a grip that
would give her enough stability for movement, but also allow for quick release if needed?
Joanna Credeur,?M.Ed.,
M.A., CTVI, COMS
Orientation & Mobility Specialist
Tennessee School for the Blind
115 Stewarts Ferry Pike ??Nashville, TN 37214
¡°Creating Contributing, Participating Members of Society¡±
--?
Joanna Credeur, M.Ed., M.A., COMS
Orientation & Mobility Specialist
Tennessee School for the Blind
115 Stewarts Ferry Pike ??Nashville, TN 37214
?
?
¡°Creating Contributing, Participating Members of Society¡±
?
?
-- Kimberly Stumph, M.S., M.Ed., COMS, CLVT, CVRT State of Maine Division for the Blind and Visually Impaired 207 446-7779Kimberly.a.stumph@...
|
Have you considered using PolyMorph or another moldable thermoplastic beads to create a custom grip?
Kim Stumph COMS, CLVT, CVRT
?
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From: [email protected] <[email protected]>
On Behalf Of Meg Robertson via groups.io
Sent: Wednesday, August 7, 2024 7:05 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [OandM] Needing Assistance
?
EXTERNAL: This email originated from outside of the State of Maine Mail System. Do not click links or open attachments unless you recognize
the sender and know the content is safe.
Another option is to work with a PT or OT in developing a handle for the cane that might work for her? ?Could she used an AMD which might help her, instead of having to sweep the cane?
Meg Robertson COMS
On Aug 7, 2024, at 3:05?PM, Chris Tabb <chris@...> wrote:
?
Joanna,
Have you considered the slim line cane from Ambutech? It¡¯s grip is soooo much more slender (and lighter) that it may be something your student could use without adaptation.?
?
?
I have a cane-using 4th?grade student with brachydactyly (see picture below; used with parent permission). She uses
a silicone strap which allows her to hold her cane steady to do diagonal cane technique, but it doesn¡¯t give her enough stability to sustain movement to do constant contact or touch and drag. Can anyone think of a way to adapt her cane or to form a grip that
would give her enough stability for movement, but also allow for quick release if needed?
Joanna Credeur,?M.Ed.,
M.A., CTVI, COMS
Orientation & Mobility Specialist
Tennessee School for the Blind
115 Stewarts Ferry Pike ??Nashville, TN 37214
O: (615) 231-7443 ??F: (615) 871-9312
¡°Creating Contributing, Participating Members of Society¡±
--?
Joanna Credeur, M.Ed., M.A., COMS
Orientation & Mobility Specialist
Tennessee School for the Blind
115 Stewarts Ferry Pike ??Nashville, TN 37214
O: (615) 231-7443 ??F: (615) 871-9312
?
?
¡°Creating Contributing, Participating Members of Society¡±
?
?
-- Kimberly Stumph, M.S., M.Ed., COMS, CLVT, CVRT State of Maine Division for the Blind and Visually Impaired 207 446-7779 Kimberly.a.stumph@...
|
Re: Low vision O&M instructors strategies
Hi Kevin
Do you mind sending me an email please? Or advise on your email?
I have just tried sending you an email to this address, but it has bounced back twice? kevin.hollinger@...
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On 8 Aug 2024, at 12:29?PM, Belinda O'Connor <beloconnor@...> wrote:
?
?Thank you Kevin! I like the ¡®promote¡¯ safety instead of ¡®maintain safety¡¯ and would love to chat further!
Best Regards,?
On 8 Aug 2024, at 1:01?AM, Laura Bozeman <Laura.bozeman@...> wrote:
?
Excellent point, Kevin.
?
There is so much involved with safety for the O&M specialist during a lesson, instructor positioning, knowing the student (how they move, how quickly they move) in
addition to what we teach about safety.
?
Best,
Laura
?
Laura Bozeman, PhD, COMS, CLVT
Professor & Graduate Program Director:
Vision Studies
Chair: School for Global Inclusion and Social Development
University of Massachusetts, Boston
Laura.bozeman@...
Cell: 781-588-4274
Fax: 617-287-7787
<image001.png>
???
<image002.png>
?
?
?
?
CAUTION: EXTERNAL SENDER
Good morning, happy to engage in the conversation as I have had over 50 interns in my summer program but I am not a university supervisor or professor. I will encourage you though to consider the language of ¡°maintain¡° safety as that the
best we can do is ¡°promote¡± it!- I feel an instructor should never tell a learner that if they do ¡°X, Y, Z they will be safe¡±
I have seen numerous times when a traveler has done everything absolutely perfect in terms of strategies and alignment and so on and yet a close call happens or an injury occurred. That includes one of my students getting hit by a car.
We promote safety.
Also, I had interns with low vision and blindness and they implemented many strategies they learned at their university.?
I also had to seek professional development for my staff to learn those strategies because they were not known to us.
?
~ ~ ~
Kevin Hollinger
CATIS, COMS, NBCT-ENS, TVI
Francis Howell School District
kevin.hollinger@...
636-851-6143 office
636-851-6030?fax
On Aug 6, 2024, at 11:01?PM, Belinda O'Connor <beloconnor@...> wrote:
?
?Hi Laura,
It¡¯s wonderful to hear from you noting your experience in this area as a university instructor and participation in the referred research. Thank you for responding!?
The below is very helpful and if you are willing, I would very much like to delve deeper.
I am particularly interested in examples of what it might look like where it is ¡®perceived¡¯ or ¡®determined¡¯ the student instructor has not maintained client safety. What are some examples that safety has not been maintained? How has that
been communicated to the student instructor and what actions were subsequently employed? Is there a remediation action or period? Does the student fail a subject or a competency or the course? How are reasonable adjustments addressed in the course and practical
placement where the student is learning? Eg, a student and the instructor may not know at the outset of the course what reasonable adjustments are needed. There may be an event which then triggers the need for a reasonable adjustment. How is that addressed?
Or is the student just deemed due to that event not being able to maintain client safety?
What if one supervisor thinks the student instructor is maintaining safety (or has not raised it as an issue) but another supervisor based on the same thing, says safety is not being maintained??
I would love to have a meeting with you sometime if you are willing? Or happy to receive other resources from you.
On 7 Aug 2024, at 6:57?AM, Laura Bozeman <Laura.bozeman@...> wrote:
?
I can respond from my experience with 5 universities. I am speaking for myself. You mentioned the Griffin-Shirley et al research and I am glad to be a part of the
research team.
As you know, anyone can apply to an O&M program regardless of disability. Regarding safety, I?expect the student instructor to keep themselves and the person they
are teaching safe in a dynamic environment-in all environments. They are assessed (in the hands-on course) informally each day and formally, at intervals throughout the course. I?have had people who are fully sighted with no other disabilities who could not
do this. I?have had people with blindness or low vision who could. How?they monitor grip, cane position, and overall safety, etc. may be different.
In the universities where I have worked, we did not ask someone with low vision to undergo any assessments that we did not require for all applicants. Among other
results of our research, being a competent traveler was noted to be necessary.
We would talk with the applicant, all applicants, about what is expected in the curriculum and that particular course.
Laura Bozeman, PhD, COMS, CLVT
Professor and Director: Vision Studies
Chair: School for Global Inclusion and Social Development
CAUTION: EXTERNAL SENDER
Hello orientation and mobility brains trust!
I would be grateful for a discussion with individuals who can provide me with advice about strategies O&M instructors (COMS) with low vision would use to maintain the safety of their clients when delivering itinerant services particularly
new travel routes.
I am also interested in the feedback that students would receive from their placement supervisors as to what it means to maintain client safety. How that is addressed through university/ COMS (ACVREP) assessment criteria to determine if/
when a student has met competency.
Obviously, I understand and affirm an orientation and mobility instructor must be able to demonstrate they can maintain the safety of the client. However there seems to be a very broad application of what this might mean. Is there any assessment
done prior to a vision impaired person undertaking a course to determine if they can maintain a client safety? (Not from what I¡¯ve read) If there has been an incident where it is perceived a clients safety may not have been maintained, how is that addressed?
(There seems to be anecdotal stories)
Currently I am undertaking postgraduate study in Australia to graduate as an orientation and mobility specialist and subsequently to sit the COMS exam.
I was born with low vision and am a bioptic driver for over eight years.?
In Australia, we only have one person with vision impairment working as a COMS. We have had only a handful of other vision impaired people who have attempted to become an orientation and mobility specialist. However,
in my discussions with some of them, some supervisors and university staff, there seems to be a general consensus that vision impaired people are not able to maintain the safety of clients. To me this seems to be a lack of familiarity of how things can be
done and are being done.
Your insights would be greatly appreciated please?
Note: I have read the recent study and been in contact with Dr Griffin-Shirley and Dr Bradley Blair. I¡¯ve also been reviewing Dr Sauerburger¡¯s work on road crossings.
Belinda O'Connor - DLI
Churchill Fellow 2022 "The NRMA - ACT Road Safety Trust Churchill Fellowship to identify success factors and barriers for low vision and telescopic glasses driving¡±?
Bioptic Drivers Australia (BDA)
Email:?beloconnor@...
LinkedIn:?https://www.linkedin.com/in/belindaoconnor1/
Blog:?
I acknowledge that I live and?work on Ngunnawal?Country?of the Kulin Nations and pay?my respects to First Nations?Elders past?and present.?Sovereignty of the lands and?waters across the continent?has never?been ceded, and?this is and
always will be?Aboriginal and Torres Strait?Islander land.
This e-mail transmission from the Francis Howell School District including any accompanying data or files is confidential and is intended only for the use of the named recipient. If you are not the intended recipient, an addressee, or the
person responsible for delivering this to an addressee, you are hereby notified that reading, using, copying, or distributing any part of this message is strictly prohibited. If you receive this message in error, or are not the named recipient(s), please notify
the sender at the email address above, delete this email from your computer, and destroy any copies in any form immediately. Improper retention of this e-mail and any attachment(s) to this e-mail could subject you to legal action under pertinent federal and
state statutes, and result in civil and criminal penalties.
|
Re: Low vision O&M instructors strategies
?Thank you Kevin! I like the ¡®promote¡¯ safety instead of ¡®maintain safety¡¯ and would love to chat further!
Best Regards,?
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On 8 Aug 2024, at 1:01?AM, Laura Bozeman <Laura.bozeman@...> wrote:
?
Excellent point, Kevin.
?
There is so much involved with safety for the O&M specialist during a lesson, instructor positioning, knowing the student (how they move, how quickly they move) in
addition to what we teach about safety.
?
Best,
Laura
?
Laura Bozeman, PhD, COMS, CLVT
Professor & Graduate Program Director:
Vision Studies
Chair: School for Global Inclusion and Social Development
University of Massachusetts, Boston
Laura.bozeman@...
Cell: 781-588-4274
Fax: 617-287-7787
<image001.png>
???
<image002.png>
?
?
?
?
CAUTION: EXTERNAL SENDER
Good morning, happy to engage in the conversation as I have had over 50 interns in my summer program but I am not a university supervisor or professor. I will encourage you though to consider the language of ¡°maintain¡° safety as that the
best we can do is ¡°promote¡± it!- I feel an instructor should never tell a learner that if they do ¡°X, Y, Z they will be safe¡±
I have seen numerous times when a traveler has done everything absolutely perfect in terms of strategies and alignment and so on and yet a close call happens or an injury occurred. That includes one of my students getting hit by a car.
We promote safety.
Also, I had interns with low vision and blindness and they implemented many strategies they learned at their university.?
I also had to seek professional development for my staff to learn those strategies because they were not known to us.
?
~ ~ ~
Kevin Hollinger
CATIS, COMS, NBCT-ENS, TVI
Francis Howell School District
kevin.hollinger@...
636-851-6143 office
636-851-6030?fax
On Aug 6, 2024, at 11:01?PM, Belinda O'Connor <beloconnor@...> wrote:
?
?Hi Laura,
It¡¯s wonderful to hear from you noting your experience in this area as a university instructor and participation in the referred research. Thank you for responding!?
The below is very helpful and if you are willing, I would very much like to delve deeper.
I am particularly interested in examples of what it might look like where it is ¡®perceived¡¯ or ¡®determined¡¯ the student instructor has not maintained client safety. What are some examples that safety has not been maintained? How has that
been communicated to the student instructor and what actions were subsequently employed? Is there a remediation action or period? Does the student fail a subject or a competency or the course? How are reasonable adjustments addressed in the course and practical
placement where the student is learning? Eg, a student and the instructor may not know at the outset of the course what reasonable adjustments are needed. There may be an event which then triggers the need for a reasonable adjustment. How is that addressed?
Or is the student just deemed due to that event not being able to maintain client safety?
What if one supervisor thinks the student instructor is maintaining safety (or has not raised it as an issue) but another supervisor based on the same thing, says safety is not being maintained??
I would love to have a meeting with you sometime if you are willing? Or happy to receive other resources from you.
On 7 Aug 2024, at 6:57?AM, Laura Bozeman <Laura.bozeman@...> wrote:
?
I can respond from my experience with 5 universities. I am speaking for myself. You mentioned the Griffin-Shirley et al research and I am glad to be a part of the
research team.
As you know, anyone can apply to an O&M program regardless of disability. Regarding safety, I?expect the student instructor to keep themselves and the person they
are teaching safe in a dynamic environment-in all environments. They are assessed (in the hands-on course) informally each day and formally, at intervals throughout the course. I?have had people who are fully sighted with no other disabilities who could not
do this. I?have had people with blindness or low vision who could. How?they monitor grip, cane position, and overall safety, etc. may be different.
In the universities where I have worked, we did not ask someone with low vision to undergo any assessments that we did not require for all applicants. Among other
results of our research, being a competent traveler was noted to be necessary.
We would talk with the applicant, all applicants, about what is expected in the curriculum and that particular course.
Laura Bozeman, PhD, COMS, CLVT
Professor and Director: Vision Studies
Chair: School for Global Inclusion and Social Development
CAUTION: EXTERNAL SENDER
Hello orientation and mobility brains trust!
I would be grateful for a discussion with individuals who can provide me with advice about strategies O&M instructors (COMS) with low vision would use to maintain the safety of their clients when delivering itinerant services particularly
new travel routes.
I am also interested in the feedback that students would receive from their placement supervisors as to what it means to maintain client safety. How that is addressed through university/ COMS (ACVREP) assessment criteria to determine if/
when a student has met competency.
Obviously, I understand and affirm an orientation and mobility instructor must be able to demonstrate they can maintain the safety of the client. However there seems to be a very broad application of what this might mean. Is there any assessment
done prior to a vision impaired person undertaking a course to determine if they can maintain a client safety? (Not from what I¡¯ve read) If there has been an incident where it is perceived a clients safety may not have been maintained, how is that addressed?
(There seems to be anecdotal stories)
Currently I am undertaking postgraduate study in Australia to graduate as an orientation and mobility specialist and subsequently to sit the COMS exam.
I was born with low vision and am a bioptic driver for over eight years.?
In Australia, we only have one person with vision impairment working as a COMS. We have had only a handful of other vision impaired people who have attempted to become an orientation and mobility specialist. However,
in my discussions with some of them, some supervisors and university staff, there seems to be a general consensus that vision impaired people are not able to maintain the safety of clients. To me this seems to be a lack of familiarity of how things can be
done and are being done.
Your insights would be greatly appreciated please?
Note: I have read the recent study and been in contact with Dr Griffin-Shirley and Dr Bradley Blair. I¡¯ve also been reviewing Dr Sauerburger¡¯s work on road crossings.
Belinda O'Connor - DLI
Churchill Fellow 2022 "The NRMA - ACT Road Safety Trust Churchill Fellowship to identify success factors and barriers for low vision and telescopic glasses driving¡±?
Bioptic Drivers Australia (BDA)
Email:?beloconnor@...
LinkedIn:?https://www.linkedin.com/in/belindaoconnor1/
Blog:?
I acknowledge that I live and?work on Ngunnawal?Country?of the Kulin Nations and pay?my respects to First Nations?Elders past?and present.?Sovereignty of the lands and?waters across the continent?has never?been ceded, and?this is and
always will be?Aboriginal and Torres Strait?Islander land.
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|
Re: Low vision O&M instructors strategies
?Just wonderful Michael! Thank you!
I resonate with all you say.
This is my second major career change which I plan to continue for decades and into semi-retirement for life. I spent just over 20 years in the Australian federal public service across various portfolios in public policy and statutory compliance at both
officer and executive level (middle management).?
I hear you regarding public transport travel, route planning - skill transfer. As I have only been driving for eight years I spent the majority of my life using public transport but I also ride pushbikes and did use them on public transport, where are
allowable. Big push here in Australia for active travel.?
In my O&M placement I¡¯ve used my vision impaired life experience in responding to questions by clients in public transport and travel in general. Clients may use that as a starting point to understand what someone else might do and then consider how they
can apply that for themselves.?
I absolutely agree with you disabled people don¡¯t just take the strategies that others use and apply them. They consider what changes may be necessary to adapt for their own impairment/disability and apply to each context. We disabled people inherently
do this because we live in a world that was not built for us.?
In becoming a bioptic driver I sort out adaptions and worked out what works for me and applied that. But I could only do that from the role modelling through social media that was offered by USA based bioptic drivers. Again against the background of no
Occupational Therapy driving instructor in my state that would take me on as a vision impaired driver and having to go interstate to do lessons and then return to my state and use a usual driving school that were willing to learn how to teach a bioptic driver.
And yes, supervisors I¡¯ve had too did their review by driving the route. Again I was told to pull out my bioptic to do the same. The constant explaining why I need to walk the routes, and where I¡¯ve had opportunity which is by myself I do with the cane.
So much good stuff you¡¯ve written!?
I¡¯ll leave it there and be in touch.
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On 8 Aug 2024, at 6:12?AM, Michael Byington <ByingtonCOMS@...> wrote:
?
Belinda,
?
You and I have some visual history in common. I am a congenitally legally blind COMS, now semi-retired. I was a bioptic driver up to about three years ago. I stopped driving at that time after nearly 50 years of bioptic driving, not because
of any significant decline in vision, but because realistically, all physical functions slow down as we age. I was in my late 60s, and I wanted to stop driving on my own before it would become apparent that I should have done so. I consider myself still able
to monitor students for safety, but I have purposefully slowed my practice down to a very part time schedule. I do not feel that I need to be out there working with four or five or mor students per day five or six days a week as I did at one time.
?
Being a COMS was a second or third professional change for me. I could not have become a COMS when working on my first Master¡¯s degree back in the 1970s. As you probably know, legally or totally blind people were not allowed to sit for
the COMS exam until 1994. I thus did other things in the rehabilitation and education professions, and went back to Graduate school to prepare to take the COMS exam in 2010. I practiced for the most part full time until 2021.
?
When in Graduate School at Texas Tech, I recall asking Dr. Griffin-Shirley? why there was not more literature or research on how legally blind and totally blind people adapted techniques to? monitor for safety, and effectively teach. ?She
answered that the process was very individualized. She gave a few examples of adaptations they had made, but she did not seem to really want me to study the techniques that other legally blind people used as much as she wanted me to develop my own that I could
prove worked for me in order to monitor and keep people safe while nonetheless teaching effectively.
?
I will mention just a few ways in which I teach differently than some other COMS who are fully sighted, ?that I have had the opportunity to observe. First of all, I back off as students increase skills as any COMS does, but I probably do
not back off as far. When a student is ready to work routes without my being in the physical intervention position ?behind them. I am probably still closer to them than most instructors would be. I do not want to miss small details of cane use, positioning,
gait, etc. that I might miss at further distance. I discuss this with the student ahead of time so that they understand what I am doing back there. After discussing my techniques with them, I probably physically touch their hands, arms, or shoulders more than
totally sighted instructors would. This helps me evaluate the subtleties of grip, hand positioning, cane placement, etc. that I might miss or not see accurately. It did not initially occur to me ?that I was doing these things to accommodate my own visual impairment,
I worked for several years in the field of deafblindness prior to entering COMS training, and I may have developed some of these techniques to accommodate communicating tactually. In terms of techniques most directly related to ?safety, I think I walk routs
more ahead of teaching them than most COMS do. Because of some personnel changes at the agency where I did my internship, I actually worked under two COMS as an intern. Both of them would often scout out a route by driving it. They would spot broken sidewalks,
elevation changes, speed bumps and other environmental features that might impact safety or orientation when I could not spot these while driving or riding in a car. ?I believe that anyone can pick up more of these features by actually experiencing them firsthand,
but as a legally blind COMS, I believe that doing this is essential for monitoring and safety.
?
I notice that Dr. Bozeman has sent you a second message while I have been writing this telling you that you may feel free to contact her. She is much better qualified than I am to talk with you about training processes to become a COMS.
After all, that is her expertise, while I have just been a work-a-day practitioner out there chasing blind and low vision people through the environment. If you would like to talk peer to peer, however, I make the same offer. ?Feel free to contact me. I will
place my contact information at the end of this message.
?
One other thing that I might suggest. We low vision people who can drive with a bioptic are a kind of a strange hybrid bunch. We get to do something that most blind and vision impaired people can not do. We can drive, but we consider what
routes we are going to drive more carefully and do more ?conscious route planning to avoid driving situations that we know might be difficult for us. You can transfer some of these techniques to the planning of walking routes. ?This is a skill that comes more
naturally and easily to us low vision drivers.
?
I remember writing in one of my scholarship applications to get funding to return to COMS school, that I felt that in an ideal world, a blind or legally blind student, would be able to work with a blind COMS, a low vision COMS, and a sighted
COMS. There are aspects of the work that each of these categories of people can naturally do best.? They may each have to work a little harder to master the areas for which they are not naturally well equipped, but they all have an important role to play in
the profession. ?Needless to say, we are not in this ideal world. Many blind individuals do not get the opportunity to work very much with any COMS at all, and certainly not with a group of COMS. Thus, COMS candidates in each of the categories of vision simply
have to work a little harder to emphasize the parts of the work that do not come as naturally to them. ?I think a further example of this was something I realized when I stopped driving. I think I was always competent at teaching the use of fixed route buses,
but I found I became even better at teaching these skills once I had to use these buses for almost all of my daily travel. The everyday user learns tricks that the teacher of skills looking in from the outside may never know as intimately.
?
Well, I just read back over this post, and I am not particularly happy with it. It is rather disorganized and I have wondered around from topic to topic. This is probably because, although I feel it is a very important topic, I still ?struggle
with how to organize and present information concerning it. Again, I extend the offer, if you think any of this seems helpful and want to talk further, feel free to contact me.
?
Michael Byington, Certified Orientation and Mobility Specialist (COMS)
> President of Kansas Association for the Blind and Visually Impaired, Inc.
>> Membership Coordinator for Friends In Art of the American Council of the Blind
>> 712 S. Kansas Avenue
>> Suite 414D-F
>> Topeka, Kansas 66603
>> (785) 221-7111
>> ByingtonCOMS@...
?
?
??
?
?
I can respond from my experience with 5 universities. I am speaking for myself. You mentioned the Griffin-Shirley et al research and I am glad to be a part of the research
team.
As you know, anyone can apply to an O&M program regardless of disability. Regarding safety, I?expect the student instructor to keep themselves and the person they are
teaching safe in a dynamic environment-in all environments. They are assessed (in the hands-on course) informally each day and formally, at intervals throughout the course. I?have had people who are fully sighted with no other disabilities who could not do
this. I?have had people with blindness or low vision who could. How?they monitor grip, cane position, and overall safety, etc. may be different.
In the universities where I have worked, we did not ask someone with low vision to undergo any assessments that we did not require for all applicants. Among other results
of our research, being a competent traveler was noted to be necessary.
We would talk with the applicant, all applicants, about what is expected in the curriculum and that particular course.
Laura Bozeman, PhD, COMS, CLVT
Professor and Director: Vision Studies
Chair: School for Global Inclusion and Social Development
CAUTION: EXTERNAL SENDER
Hello orientation and mobility brains trust!
I would be grateful for a discussion with individuals who can provide me with advice about strategies O&M instructors (COMS) with low vision would use to maintain the safety of their clients when delivering itinerant services particularly
new travel routes.
I am also interested in the feedback that students would receive from their placement supervisors as to what it means to maintain client safety. How that is addressed through university/ COMS (ACVREP) assessment criteria to determine if/
when a student has met competency.
Obviously, I understand and affirm an orientation and mobility instructor must be able to demonstrate they can maintain the safety of the client. However there seems to be a very broad application of what this might mean. Is there any assessment
done prior to a vision impaired person undertaking a course to determine if they can maintain a client safety? (Not from what I¡¯ve read) If there has been an incident where it is perceived a clients safety may not have been maintained, how is that addressed?
(There seems to be anecdotal stories)
Currently I am undertaking postgraduate study in Australia to graduate as an orientation and mobility specialist and subsequently to sit the COMS exam.
I was born with low vision and am a bioptic driver for over eight years.?
In Australia, we only have one person with vision impairment working as a COMS. We have had only a handful of other vision impaired people who have attempted to become an orientation and mobility specialist. However,
in my discussions with some of them, some supervisors and university staff, there seems to be a general consensus that vision impaired people are not able to maintain the safety of clients. To me this seems to be a lack of familiarity of how things can be
done and are being done.
Your insights would be greatly appreciated please?
Note: I have read the recent study and been in contact with Dr Griffin-Shirley and Dr Bradley Blair. I¡¯ve also been reviewing Dr Sauerburger¡¯s work on road crossings.
Belinda O'Connor - DLI
Churchill Fellow 2022 "The NRMA - ACT Road Safety Trust Churchill Fellowship to identify success factors and barriers for low vision and telescopic glasses driving¡±?
Bioptic Drivers Australia (BDA)
I acknowledge that I live and?work on Ngunnawal?Country?of the Kulin Nations and pay?my respects to First Nations?Elders past?and present.?Sovereignty of the lands and?waters across the continent?has never?been ceded, and?this is and
always will be?Aboriginal and Torres Strait?Islander land.
|
Re: Strategies for O&M instructors who have visual impairment
?
Oh I can¡¯t stop thanking you Dona for your kind words xx and information!
I truly look forward to hearing from Michael!
Yes, earlier this year I had to take a couple of months away to rebuild myself. I had reached a point I was so anxious from all this I could not make judgements and questioned everything, not
just in actions in my placement but my life too.?
I loved reading Christie¡¯s article & blog! I also resonated with it and made me laugh and recall my experiences. Yes, we do have the Fulbright scholarship available in Australia as well.
?Just by way of background, my undergraduate degree was international business and I studied Korean and spent a three month internship in South Korea working for Samsung Advanced Institute of Tech. Joined by 19 other students from my university apart from
our working commitments most of our experience was together travelling.
But five years later I studied mandarin for three years and then did a month and a half study tour in Taiwan spending time with my dormitory Taiwanese friends. Back in Australia I had a Chinese flatmate and met her in China (Guangzhou same place as Christie)
for a holiday. Obviously, because I could speak Mandarin my interactions were much better. But China is traditional writing and Taiwan is simplified so I couldn¡¯t really read a lot. And yes, even my Asian friends talk about the lack of accessibility, the treatment
of disabled people and attitudes. Drawing from Hofstede¡¯s framework of cultural dimensions one can learn why these differences exist.?
As a OAM, I do believe it aids client centred practice to have some understanding of a cultural dimensions framework (and explore that with each client) when delivering services to clients from a different cultural background.?
?
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On 7 Aug 2024, at 12:59?PM, Dona Sauerburger <dona@...> wrote:
?
gads, Belinda, that sounds SO frustrating and SO unfair!? My first thought is to wonder "how can these people, who serve B/VI people, be so ignorant and cruel!??!?
And then I remember, *I* thought the same as them!? After more than 30 years of helping people who are blind / visually impaired do things that most people thing requires vision, such as crossing streets . . I turned around and assumed they couldn't teach
O&M because that would require vision.? Because that's the way that I teach O&M!
Well, Belinda, you're joining a HUGE huge HUGE group of people being discriminated against unfairly.? The only consolation is that in 30 years you can look back with pride at how you handled it . . . one by one.? Convincing employers and supervisors . .
. one by blasted one.? Just know you're not alone, generations of blind O&Ms before you and probably after you went through the same thing.
I'd love to hear from Michael Byington, I think he's been a visually impaired O&M long enough to know discrimination -- possibly even from me, if he goes back far enough!? Michael, how'd you deal with it?
Meanwhile, Belinda, don't let it get you down, don't let it convince you that you aren't capable.? That's probably the hardest obstacle to overcome -- believing in yourself.
I once met a young blind American woman in China, who was sent there on a Fulbright scholarship (don't know if that's an American thing, but it's a BIg Deal -- awarded only to the brightest and most capable).? I asked her what it was like to be in China
and she almost teared up, saying how hard it was to maintain her self-esteem in the face of discrimination she encountered there.? I asked her to write about it, which is
.
So don't let this mess with your self-esteem and confidence.
Love,
Dona
On 8/6/2024 10:13 PM, Belinda O'Connor wrote:
?
?Thank you Dona, as usual you are providing very useful information. I applaud you in your advocacy efforts and supporting ways for inclusive training. Thank you.
I also like your website in that it is presented in a way to be easy to read for all users. I do find it odd in my contact with people in the? BLV?fields where they provide materials
(regardless of audience) that are clearly inconsistent with WCAG eg, non screen readable, poor contrast.
Yes, Australia does seem to be at least 30 years behind in these matters particularly low vision. There are a few drivers for this including the change in funding for BLV services in Australia from government block funding to organisations to plan based
funding to individuals. ?Blindness organisations are funded through their service providers (O&Ms, OTs, ATS, etc) meeting a 65% of billable hours target. There are no residential services only itinerant services in dynamic environments generally from the clients
home. I have been told by several O&Ms in Australia that in the USA?BLV?people only deliver services in residential settings and not dynamic new environments. I know this is not true but
that is the narrative they tell.
To give you an example of one of the barriers, every supervisor I have had has told me I will not have time to do a review of a route prior to visiting a client. This is despite myself advising that a route review by myself is a reasonable adjustment and
a must for me to do. I am consistently denied. This makes me very uncomfortable (and nervous in real time) in supporting a client for their route travel because it does not give me the opportunity to the thematically analyse the environment and consider how
best I would deliver the service as someone with low vision. The only vision impaired COMS in Australia does not drive, uses public transport and has told me that they exceed the billable hours target and are still able to do a good route review. So yes discrimination
and ignorance. I also believe in Australia there is a gendered intersectionality lens compounding.
?
I have been very much aware of lack of LV services in Australia and thus addressing needs. So why we established Bioptic Drivers Australia in 2017, including the website/socials/media. This is my life¡¯s work and why I am studying and seeking to certify
to become COMS¡ to build on Chuck Huss¡¯s COMS work for the Australian context.?
In attempting to complete the 350 hours required by ACVREP I have driven 30,000 km in seven months in regional and city across several boarders ACT, NSW, QLD, VIC. Never had an accident. One manager said I¡¯ll be doing the majority of my placement by Telehealth
and for any physical visits would only let me book a client where another employee was visiting that area so they drive. Of course they¡¯d never say it¡¯s because I¡¯m a bioptic driver they didn¡¯t want me driving on their work time. That took months to resolve.
I had an O&M supervisor tell me I must wear my bioptic at all times when with clients, then to ask me what is a bioptic. Another tell me in detail their ¡®what if¡® views why low vision conditions mean not able to consistently ensure a clients safety when crossing
roads. Again months to address and many attitudes driving behaviour without resolution. I¡¯m pleased to read the adjustment examples at this link including using a support person.?
I was also pleased to learn that there are courses in the USA that video their students delivering O&M. This is something I would welcome and will suggest. Yet, the real issue is the instructor¡®s subjectivities in determining what actions (or lack of)
result in maintaining safety (or not). And if not, how that is explored and addressed.
As it seems, BLV students and the university and supervisors alike don¡¯t know what kind of adjustments may be employed, it does seem relevant that the material at these links are shared broadly in Australia.
The only LV COMS in Australia worked for one of the large blindness agencies for over 10 years and then set up their own business. This person is very well respected and has a considerable client base and works with other independent COMS to deliver group
travel days. Yet, I¡¯m told by O&Ms there were issues and concerns when teaching that person and the teaching model now is very different (less adaptive and more complex). In addition to myself there are now two other LV students studying the course to become
an orientation and mobility specialist. I have been told both students have been seeking reasonable adjustment supports without resolution. So yes, whilst I am seeking ways to convince colleagues and supervisors that I could be capable, I and the other students
can only benefit from the advice of those who have forged the path before us. And there seems to be quite a bit of experience in the USA to draw from.
I¡¯m very much open to more discussion on these matters.
I am particularly interested in hearing from people with low vision who are COMS or working to be COMS.
I also welcome direct emails if you do not want to have the discussion open with the group.?
On 7 Aug 2024, at 1:33?AM, Dona Sauerburger
<dona@...> wrote:
? <sigh> Belinda, I hear ya about having supervisors and even O&M colleagues who have doubts that someone with low vision (or no vision) can provide for the safety of their O&M students.
Strategies for people with low vision to teach O&M vary - but I wonder if you¡¯re really looking for ways to convince colleagues and supervisors that you could be capable? ?
That was a HUGE problem here in the U.S. about 25-30 years ago. ?I remember O&Ms on this listserv saying they would never allow their supervisor to hire a blind instructor (presumably they¡¯d quit if that happened). The O&M Division of AER would not certify
O&Ms who didn¡¯t have normal vision and, long after blind instructors were certified, programs and supervisors (including our government agency, the Veterans Administration) had policies that their O&M instructors had to have normal vision.?
So perhaps Australia is now facing the same struggle with this problem. ?Collecting a list of strategies that people with low vision use might be helpful but in my experience, that¡¯s not going to be enough. ?The ignorance and discrimination itself needs
to be addressed.
I was one of the leaders of the O&M Division of AER at the time, and we:
* had leaders present at a general session at our conference with 2 blind certified O&M specialists explaining how they taught, and answered questions and concerns?
* had a newsletter column that featured O&M instructors including two who were blind?
* approved a position paper supporting blind O&Ms (Mark Richert and I drafted it - he was executive director at the time)
There was also a ¡°point / Counterpoint¡± in JVIB about O&Ms with disabilities (??)
I think it¡¯s safe to say that by now, several DECADES later, we¡¯ve finally arrived at the stage where O&Ms who are blind or have low vision are accepted by the profession, but I assume that they have the same problems with discrimination by prospective employers
that all people with visual impairments face - the employers need to be convinced that they can do the job.
¡ª Dona
¡ª¡ª¡ª¡ª¡ª¡ª¡ª¡ª¡ª
Dona Sauerburger, COMS
Certified Orientation and Mobility Specialist for the blind
?
Hello orientation and mobility brains trust!
I would be grateful for a discussion with individuals who can provide me with advice about strategies O&M instructors (COMS) with low vision would use to maintain the safety of their clients when delivering itinerant services particularly new travel routes.
I am also interested in the feedback that students would receive from their placement supervisors as to what it means to maintain client safety. How that is addressed through university/ COMS (ACVREP) assessment criteria to determine if/ when a student
has met competency.
Obviously, I understand and affirm an orientation and mobility instructor must be able to demonstrate they can maintain the safety of the client. However there seems to be a very broad application of what this might mean. Is there any assessment done prior
to a vision impaired person undertaking a course to determine if they can maintain a client safety? (Not from what I¡¯ve read) If there has been an incident where it is perceived a clients safety may not have been maintained, how is that addressed? (There seems
to be anecdotal stories)
Currently I am undertaking postgraduate study in Australia to graduate as an orientation and mobility specialist and subsequently to sit the COMS exam.
I was born with low vision and am a bioptic driver for over eight years.?
In Australia, we only have one person with vision impairment working as a COMS. We have had only a handful of other vision impaired people who have attempted to become an orientation and mobility
specialist. However, in my discussions with some of them, some supervisors and university staff, there seems to be a general consensus that vision impaired people are not able to maintain the safety of clients. To me this seems to be a lack of familiarity
of how things can be done and are being done.
Your insights would be greatly appreciated please?
Note: I have read the recent study and been in contact with Dr Griffin-Shirley and Dr Bradley Blair. I¡¯ve also been reviewing Dr Sauerburger¡¯s work on road crossings.
Best Regards,?
Belinda O'Connor - DLI
Churchill Fellow 2022 "The NRMA - ACT Road Safety Trust Churchill Fellowship to identify success factors and barriers for low vision and telescopic glasses driving¡±?
Bioptic Drivers Australia (BDA)
I acknowledge that I live and?work on Ngunnawal?Country?of the Kulin Nations and pay?my respects to First Nations?Elders past?and present.?Sovereignty of the lands and?waters across the continent?has
never?been ceded, and?this is and always will be?Aboriginal and Torres Strait?Islander land.
--
-- Dona
-------------------------------
Dona Sauerburger, COMS
Certified Orientation and Mobility Specialist for the blind
|
FW: Help Support the Week Without Driving
Thought this might be of interest.
Becky Davidson
----- Forwarded Message -----
From: Latricia Huston <latricia@...>
Date: Wednesday, August 07, 2024 03:30 PM
To: beckyb1120@...
Subject: Help Support the Week Without Driving
What kinds of communities would we have if we built them for everyone, not just those in cars?
What kinds of communities would we have if we built them for everyone, not just those in cars?
Last year our Week Without Driving Challenge went nationwide! Over 140 organizations around the country urged hundreds of local decision makers to take the challenge, and understand the barriers that non-drivers face when trying to move safely in their communities. We are doing it again this year from September 30th to October 6, and we need your donation to help support the 200+ organizations in 43 states that are now promoting this powerful tactic for change.
Support The Week Without Driving Now! ()
The impact is undeniable - hundreds of elected officials, agency leaders and individuals have directly experienced the failures in our transportation system that nondrivers depend on. If they commit to building places that work for the 25 percent of the population without access to vehicles - imagine what that means for the safety, health, and quality of life for all of us!
If you aren't familiar with this innovative initiative, please check out this video () that shows last year's highlights.
Your donation means we will have the resources to provide training, materials and support to the grassroots organizations creating change. And here's the deal: the only dedicated funding source for this program is your donations.
Disability Rights Washington asked us to take their state program to a national audience, and we did because we were confident that America Walks supporters would step up financially. So please contribute so that we can keep building the movement!
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