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--- In OAFs@y..., "Bruce McGlashan" <mcglashanb2@h...> wrote:

One other thing - I had quite a bit of trouble aiming at gamma and
iota with the telrad. Even at minimum brightness, it seemed to
overwhelm the target. I was having trouble seeing the stars
themselves, even though they listed as magnitude 4.7 and 4 in Starry
Night.

Bruce -

One thing that I've found helpful when using a telrad is to manually
switch it on and off every two or three seconds in cases where even
its minimum brightness seems to "overwhelm" the target. In fact, I
think that a "slow strobe" setting on a telrad would be a great design
feature!

Janice

Hello Bruce,

Another great report! I was considering going out with you, but I
was just wiped and I had a great night on Friday. Sounds like you
had fun though.

See ya in the Dark!
Matt

Hey Mike,

I really enjoyed your report! I find it very cool that you could
track the ISS/Shuttle in the 18in!!

Seeing the jet in M87 is REALLY COOL, maybe you could give me a look
next time you have people out? I noticed the link on redshift just
after you posted it a little while back and I thought to myself, "I
wonder how long it will take Mike and Attilla to check that one off
their list?". I guess I have my answer, LOL. Once again I am amazed
as to what can be seen in your wonderful scopes!

Clear Skies to all,
Matt

Having missed a good observing night Thursday, and dinner with all you OAFs
on Saturday (I was getting my final bachelor brother properly married off),
I was eager to get out observing again last evening when I got back from
Toronto. Nobody bit at my plea for company at FLO, but I decided to head
off regardless. As it turned out, a couple of other people showed up not to
long after I arrived. They were Rob Relyea and Eric Benson. Rob set up his
8" Dob, and Eric set up his truss newt.

In my haste to get out to FLO, I did not notice that I had removed my
Observer's Handbook, planisphere and sky atlas from their usual places, and
so I arrived with a list of objectives for the night and no way to find
them! Fortunately, I had a stack of recent astro-mags with me, so I made do
with what I had. Consequently, this won't be a very long report:

Session: 2001-015
Date/time: 2001-04-22 21:00 - 23:30
Location: Fred Lossing Observatory, Almonte, Ontario.
Weather: 7,calm, clouds variable, some aurora

Present: Rob Relyea, Eric Benson and I.

Limiting magnitude and seeing: No idea. Was planning to go through the
exercise in the Observer's Handbook, but it's hard to do that when it is
sitting at home. Briefly considered calling wife to talk me through it, but
reconsidered when I recalled the sarcastic remark I received when I told her
I was going observing. Best I can say is that all of us considered the
conditions to be fairly good early on, but things seemed to deteriorate
about 22:30. No moon for entire session.

Instrument: G-8 SCT, also had peeks in Rob's 8" Dob.

Observations:

1) Doubles in Cancer: S&T said each of the stars in the Cancer asterism
were doubles, so let's check it out. Iota Cnc - very easy split with 10mm
(200x). They differ in magnitude (notes say by at least 1 - turned out to
be over 2). The dimmer one is bluer, while the brighter one us pale yellow.
Gamma Cnc - this was an even wider split than iota (significant part of a
FOV) and dimmer. Not nearly the difference in colour either. Subsequent
checks with Starry Night showed the separation was nowhere near what iota's
was, so I suspect I was seeing a field star and had in fact not split the
double (still 10mm EP) at all. Delta Cnc - could not split it, even with a
barlow in (400x). At this point, I got distracted wandering around in M44,
and I never finished off looking at Alpha or Beta.

One other thing - I had quite a bit of trouble aiming at gamma and iota with
the telrad. Even at minimum brightness, it seemed to overwhelm the target.
I was having trouble seeing the stars themselves, even though they listed as
magnitude 4.7 and 4 in Starry Night.

2) Leo Triplet: Found these galaxies (M65, M66 and NGC 3628) very quickly
using telrad-finderscope-EP. All fit nicely in FOV of 52mm EP (77'). NGC
3628 was barely a smudge in averted vision, but some detail was evident in
both M65 and M66. Shared view with both Rob and Eric, and much shop talk
ensued. Eventually got back to the EP, and switched to 32mm. Could still
fit both Messiers in one FOV (47'). Eric offered to show me the view
through a 7mm Nagler. He set it up, but just as I re-focussed for my
vision, the clouds passed over.

Clouds rolled in at 23:30, so we all packed it in for the night.

One last note: this was the first time I had found M65 and M66 myself. Two
more entries to make in my log of found Messier's!

Well there goes my attempt to name a faint planetary "Roland's Spleen"...Rats!!
Richard

Mike Wirths wrote:

Good morning all!

Just wanted to share two very exciting observations with you,
yesterday I decided to see if there would be another ISS/shuttle pass,
so I visited heavens-above.com punched in the pertinent info and sure
enough there would be a pass of the two which were now docked. The
pass would be at 20:43 but the elevation would be much lower than the
previous night, only 35 deg tracking from the NW to the S, so I

Not so good for seeing, but probably better for tracking with a dob. It
would be amusing (for other people) to see someone tracking the ISS on a
ladder! Without getting into what "Dobson's hole" could do to a
tracking attempt near the zenith.

But very cool to hear what you managed to get with hand guiding. Seems
worthy of posting to a group somewhere (the StarMaster yahoogroup?)
since tracking a fast satellite with a respectable size scope by hand
seems pretty amazing. Did you look into whether the Skytracker system
could do it for you? It should give a steadier view, plus be easier on
Attilla's cranium and the eyepiece.

ringtail,ngc 3242, Rolands face, and a ngc galaxy that Attilla has
designated Rolands ear!!!

Since you weren't at dinner Saturday (which was excellent due to food
and company) you didn't hear Roland's concerns over the extensive number
of details of his anatomy that are being mapped onto celestial
structures. I think he would prefer if nothing below his neck were to
be associated with anything seen in the sky. Come to think of it, I
think most of us were prefer that limitation too! (Janice may be an
exception, but that's between her and Roland and I just don't need to
know anymore, thankyouverymuch).

clear skies all!

Mike W

Clear skies

Rob

Yes it was an excellent evening. I was especialy delighted
when the skies cleared. It had been getting steadily cloudier
as I drove the hour to Mike's place. (That drive gives one a
_long_ time to engage in clear/cloudy self-doubt.)

But once again Mike manage to pull off some kind of magic to
appeas the weather gods. (I have to conclude there there cant
be too many virgins left in Stanleyville. :) )

If there are folks out there who havent taken Mike up on one of
his observing invites, I highly recommened it.

About a particular galaxy cluster:

I had fun time looking for "Roland's Ear". Its NGC4438.

Roland previously pointed outthat the galaxy cluster
centered around M84 and M86 looked alot like a face. M84 and m86
form two eyes. In about the right places are NGC galaxies for
a nose and a mouth. The mouth is, rather conveniently, a edge-on
galaxy oriented just right. This is a really easy cluster to find
because, as Roland points out, it's halfway from Denebola (Leo's tail)
to Vindemiatrix (closest bright star in Virgo to Denebola).

It turns out that the face metaphor really works. Just about
where you'd expect an ear to be, if the face was looking slightly
in profile, is an ear and earring.

Roland's Ear is a very interesting galaxy. At least in deep
photographs like this one: (slow load)


2000&h=10&w=15&f=gif

(You'll probably need to edit that so it's all on one line.)

Visually, detail is very fleeting, but the DSS image above reveals the
outer parts of its arms to weirdly twisted. It's probably due to a
recent (i.e. merely hundreds of millions of years ago) interaction
with that nearby small galaxy.

That nearby galaxy is visible in amateur scopes. It's in about the
right place to be Roland's Earing.

The "face" metaphore works quite well. In addition to basic facial,
features, and an ear distored by too big of an earring, there is also
an eyebrow high over one eye, a dimple on the left cheek and
chain of smaller galaxies that crudely outline a jaw.

(It's all in good taste, as long as we restrict ourselves to naming
galaxy clusters after body parts above the neckline. :) )

I find all this sillyness makes for a really easy way to remember
a galaxy cluster. Especially in the virgo cluster where ther are
_so many_ galaxies. In fact, there is a different cluster, very
close to Roland's face, that mimics it but only has the two eyes
and eyebrow. I would have been confused into thinking the two
false eyes were M84 and M86 excect that I remembered where
Roland's Nose was.

Clear skies, and giant galaxy clusters for all.

ad

Hi All,

Glad to see everyone is active with their observing.
I've been caught up with the playoffs but will resume
sens the SENS flopped.

I have a 9.7mm super plossl Meade sries 4k for trade.
I'm looking 4 a 12-14mm plossl for even trade.

I'm not sure if your group has a section for articles
for sale/trade so I decided to post it on the group.

PS: I've laso been monitoring the ISS and shuttle.
Pretty kool to step outside for a few minutes, watch
it go by and go back to the hockey game 5 minutes
later. Long live technology and the die hards that
provide us with the information.

Ciao 4 know!

Marc

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices

--- In OAFs@y..., jtokar@s... wrote:

Re Phones: (snip)
It's a Nokia from RadioShack, and we've tested it from Casselman and
FLO. We're on a pay-as-you-go plan. (You buy a small card with an
activation code - I think it's something like $25 for 25 minutes

I overestimated the cost of the pay-as-you-go plan for the Nokia on
Rogers/AT&T. It's actually $10 for 30 minutes (one month) and $25 for
75 minutes (3 months).

Re FLO: I read in the paper today that the haze in the sky that
plagued the FLO session early in the week (well, actually the paper
didn't specifically mention the FLO. . .) was in fact a dust cloud
that was created during a huge storm over the Gobi Desert in early
April. Mongolian pea soup.

I just spoke to Stan Siok of Environment Canada about the "Mongolian
dust cloud". He confirmed that a blob of that cloud was over Ottawa
on Monday April 16 and Tuesday April 17, causing the hazy
conditions, but that a precursor had come into the area on Sunday
April 15 (the night of the FLO pea soup mound report). The tiny
particles of smoke & dust were in the upper troposphere. There was
also some scattered cloud in the area later in the evening.

Anyone interested in tracking this type of atmospheric phenomenon
might want to check out the aerosol link at

Re Food: Attilla, if you know any good west-end Indian or Thai
restaurants, could you add them to the poll?

The food and company at the Little India Restaurant on Saturday were
simply terrific. A great way to turn the disappointment of a cloudy
night into a special occasion!


Jan

"Are you suggesting coconuts migrate?"

Good morning all!

Just wanted to share two very exciting observations with you, yesterday I decided to see if there would be another ISS/shuttle pass, so I visited heavens-above.com punched in the pertinent info and sure enough there would be a pass of the two which were now docked. The pass would be at 20:43 but the elevation would be much lower than the previous night, only 35 deg tracking from the NW to the S, so I moved my 18" SM to the other side of the observatory to gain a clear shot over the wall, put in my lowest power ep (the 22mm nagler) to get a FOV of just over 1/2 a degree and a magnification of 89x and waited.....
My wife Pamela joined me in trying to spy the duo (which would be mag 0.5) approacing from the NW, it was still a little light so by the time we spotted it it was already past Orion so I raced over to my scope and using the telrad I lead the duo by about 5 degrees and moved my head to the ep. I had to repeat this twice before it went through my FOV and then I started hand tracking! I think I was holding my breath at this point I was so excited! Sure enough I could make out a blob a few (maybe 5) arcseconds in diameter to the front of a much larger rectangular object (obviously the ISS) it was very cool to actually be able to make out the Endeavor and ISS at over 600 km away!! At this point Attilla arrived and I yelled that I had the ISS in the FOV he ran over and I moved the scope towards the quickly moving pair so that he could catch a glimpse. I think I may have bonked poor Attilla in the head with the 22mm Nagler!! (sorry Attilla! but hey if you got a black eye from a Nagler not many amateur astronomers could ever claim that achievement!!)
but by that time it was already too low over the south wall of the observatory.
This is something that is definitley do-able and could be a fun thing to try in future favorable passes of the ISS.
Later on in the evening the few clouds that were present before totally dissapated and left us with a very transparent (around 6.5) sky with good seeing (in the arcsecond range or a 7/10) wow we were'nt expecting this good a sky, you just never know! We viewed many objects like M92,51,100,84,86,106,the ringtail,ngc 3242, Rolands face, and a ngc galaxy that Attilla has designated Rolands ear!!!
At this point we decided to try for the Jet in M87, the giant elliptical galaxy. Since this was a unplanned observation we were not prepared and did not know what the oreintation of the jet would be. I think this was a good thing in a way since averted imagination would not give us a hand. After finding M87 I popped in the 7.5mm Tak ep to give a mag of 423x in the 25" scope, after a few minutes I could decern a blobby extention of the nucleus to the 6 o clock position, Attilla confirmed this as well and using my Messier chart on my observatory wall confirmed the oreintation of the jet in relation to a bright nearby field star (the small pic was actually underexposed to faintly show the Jet--good luck for us!). The jet is very close in to the nucleus is about a few arcseconds wide and maybe 1/2 an arcminute long, check out this url for more info on the M87 jet :
It was a very satisfiing observation considering we were not sure we would get any observing in at all earlier! Very shortly after at about 11:00 the clouds rolled in and completly covered the sky but Attilla had to leave anyway and I was getting tired as well. But we were very happy to have made such interesting observations and as always it was a ton of fun!


clear skies all!

Mike W

Sess.#293 8:30-11:00 lm=5.3 s=6 clear b/yard Polar Alignment

Apart from taking one last peek at Jupiter before it gets too low, I
wanted to practise the "drift method for polar alignment".

I wanted to see how long it might take to do a "drift alignment" on
the SCT-8", as well as the hardware would be able to go. I had never
really invested the time to do that fully before. If I want to take
better astrophotos, it's something I needed to explore in more
detail...

After 45minutes of adjustments, with calculator and stop watch,
according to "drift alignment procedure", I had the scope repeatedly
tracking with zero declination drift in 7 minutes.

The R.A. drift had always been the big problem for me though, as I
could not understand the behavior of scope -- it seemed unpredictable.

So, I recorded all kinds of data for over an hour and now understand,
for the first time, what's going on. The scope has a periodic error
waveform, (due to the worm gear) of + - 15" ( without PEC on ). This
periodic error has a slope ( in other words, the entire periodic error
waveform repeats but was difting +10" to the R every 5.5 minutes ).

Anyway, I theorized that this overall rightward drift, and not the
periodic error itself, was what I needed to correct. After a long
time, I finally managed to have no slope on this either. A few more
adjustments were required, as DEC and RA affect each other. Then I
taught the periodic error to the scope using the PEC capability.

In the end I was able to get the SCT-8" to track within the following
parameters, using the scope's PEC chip, but without using the paddle
at all:

In 10 minutes - zero DEC drift and + - max 5" RA variance, with no
slope.

I'd say that's about as accurate as this hardware can go, at this
point. To adjust any more than that would represent the kind of
adjustments made for a permanent pier mount. It's a tiring process --
not one that I would want to repeat for every photography session.

Now that I understand the problem to be solved, I believe I could
eventually find a way to reduce that time to maybe 1 hour. But that's
about it unless I get some kind of great insight. Like most people,
I'd much rather spend that time actually observing. Regulus is nice,
but not that nice! ;-)

However, if I were in one spot for five days, and the first night was
hazy, I might invest the time ( 2 hrs. ) on such an alignment.
There's also a certain satisfaction that comes with solving a
difficult puzzle, if you know what I mean...

Tracking Photons,
Roland

Would have loved to go to FLO, but I have to get up quite early as I
am teaching a class all week this week. Instead, I'll have to be
satisfied with equipment calibration and simple observations for now.

Good observing!

Roland

PS- ( watched the Holy Grail with Janice -- every second line was a
quote we'd read recently on OAFs )!

Just back from Toronto, having gotten my brother properly married, and
looking for something more intellectually stimulating to do. The EC website
for tonight looks positively awesome:



from sunset to some time after 2300. Anybody interested? Is this a sucker
call by a newbie?

Here's one beginner saying 'Thanks'! Talk about just-in-time delivery -
very a propos to what I'm doing right now.

A suggestion for another Beginner's Corner item: appropriate clothing for
winter and summer observing. I found your advice in OAOG back in
November/December to be particularly helpful. It made extended observing
below -10 quite do-able. With summer weather fast approaching, I'm
starting to think about what I'll need to be comfortable in bug season. Any
advice would be very welcome.

Bruce McGlashan

Took Matt's advice and made a folder of links to the various
"Beginner's Corner" postings on OAFs. Anyone who wants to could add
to the pot.

Later,

Rol

PS- Also, just wanted to note that I'll be teaching during the
upcoming week and so will not be as available for observing.

(It should clearup in the wee hours of the morning. In the meantime...)


A catalog of nearly 8000 NGC object pictures. Links by NGC
number take you to Digital Sky Survey (DSS) images.
This is a very quick way of finding an image of a DSS image.
It is much faster than using the main DSS
web page.

Dont worry if you cant read Finnish. The pictures and
the numbers are a universal language.



This is another page on the same finnish website. It
is a catalog of deep sky objects ordered by page
number in Uranometria. Its not clear to me if it
complete, but for many pages it lists dosens of
objects with numerical data and links to DSS
images. Think of it as an online version of
"The Deep Sky Field guide to Uranometria Guide"
with pictures.

-ad

ps. Not all of these links are necessarily worth moving to the bookmarks
page. I suggest we have a casual vote. If one person posts a cloudy
night link, I suggest someone else nominate it for bookmark-ship
by copying the url to the bookmark page.

Interesting reports!

Looks like you guys got a half-decent few hours in a row at FLO, this
time. All the details in your reports are fascinating to me. Some
people, as you kno, prefer an OIII and others a UHC filter. I believe
it depends very much on your particular targets.

Congratulations, Matt, on accurately identifying a feature on the
surface of Mars. Cool eh? The view should improve substantially over
time. The red filter will hopefully eventually help you make out many
darker areas more easily. When are you scanning that first Mars and
posting it?

All for now,

Roland

Hello all,

Thanks for the report Mike! Just after you left the skies became a
little more transparent and Geoff, Ron, Rob and Myself continued to
observe until about 4am.

Here is my report:

Session: 01-011

Date: April 20, 2001
Time: 21:00-04:00
Location: FLO, Almonte, Ontario
Weather Description: +4 Deg winds light to clam. Light haze drifting
in and out.

Limiting Magnitude: 6.2 at best down to 5.7
Seeing: 6/10 (had an hour of 8/10)
Scope: Celestar 8


Targets:
1) NGC 4361: Planetary Nebula in Corvus. A faint gray fuzzy in 18mm
(113x). Suspected central star 1/3 of time. Using the 24mm+Barlow
(170x) the central star was seen using averted vision 50% of time.
Object was low in sky and in local sky glow. OIII did not improve
view.

2) M104: The Sombrero Galaxy in Virgo. Bright, edge on shape,
oriented E-W. Suddenly brighter core. Using 18mm (113x) the dark
lane was visible with averted vision 30% of time. Using 24mm+Barlow
(170x), the dark lane was visible 60% of the time and was more
obvious using averted vision. The dark lane was noted to be south of
the bright core.

3) M51: The Whrilpool Galaxy in Canes Venatici. During an hour of
excellent conditions (very transparent and steady), M51 and its
companion, NGC 5195 put on quite a show. Using the 18mm(113x) and
averted vision, the outer structure of the galaxy was very mottled
and showed hints of spiral structure! A connection between NGC 5195
and M51 was suspected with averted vision, I could never hold the
detail long enough to say for sure.

4) NGC 4274: Galaxy in Coma Berenices. Faint with very slightly
brighter core. Edge on? Extended NW-SE. Observed using 18mm(113x).

5) NGC 4278: Galaxy in Coma Berenices. Bright, round with a suddenly
brighter core. Observed with 18mm (113x). NGC 4283 in same field.

6) NGC 4283: Galaxy in Coma Berenices. E-N-E of NGC 4278. Dimmer
and smaller then 4278. Round with slightly brighter core. Observed
with 18mm(113x).

7) M53: Globular Cluster in Coma Berenices. Large, bright with a
gradually brighter core in the 24mm (85x). Appeared granular with
averted vision. Using the 24mm+barlow (170x), it was very granular
or slightly resolved with averted vision.

8) M14: Globular Cluster in Ophiuchus. Faint and fuzzy in 24mm
(85x). Didn't look much better in 18mm(113x). I suspect higher
magnification should be used to resolve.

9) MARS: At about 2:50AM (Apr 21st) I observed mars even though it
was still low in the eastern sky. The best view was with the 18mm
(113x) unfiltered. I tried a red filter but the little bit of detail
I noticed was lost. Using information in Sky&Telescope I computed
the Central Meridian to be approximately 58 Deg. Using this
information and a map in the same magazine I was able to determine
that the detail I saw was Mare Erythraeum. I made a small sketch at
the eyepiece.

10) M10: Globular Cluster in Ophiuchus. Dim. Partially resolved
with 18mm (113x).&#92;

11) M80: Globular Cluster in Scorpius. Faint, gradually brighter
core. Unresolved in 18mm (113x). Low in sky when observed.

Notes:
An excellent night at FLO! There where about 7 scopes set up on
the "hill", including a close to new C-11! The night started out
looking bad, but it cleared off almost exactly at the end of
astronomical twilight. The sky opened up to have excellent
transparency for about an hour. The rest of the night was slightly
hazy. At around 9:30 (I think?) we were treated to a pass of the ISS
followed shortly by the Shuttle on a catch up course. Very neat to
see. On the "hill" this night were: Mike Ziedler, Geoff Meek, Rob
Relyea, and Ron StMartin. I forgot two people's names, one was Mike
Z's friend with the C-11 and the other had an Omcon? DOB. If either
of you is reading this I appologise, I am terrible with names (the
only reason I remembered the others is because I wrote them down).
Please send me an email so I can add your name to my notes.

I was very excited to see my first bit of detail on Mars for the
year. I am looking forward to opposition.

I had the opportunity to try out two nebula filters on my 8-inch
tonight. My thanks to Rob for allowing me to borrow his Lumicon OIII
and Orion Ultrablock. Using the brightest portion of the Veil as a
testing ground I ran the two filters through their paces. Without
filter there was no sign at all of the nebula. I popped in the OIII
and, BOOM, there it was. Plain as day. Amazing! I removed the OIII
and installed the Ultrablock. I could still see the nebula but it
was not as contrasty as the OIII. I would guess the OIII was twice
as effective as the Ultrablock. So in short, I will be shopping for
an OIII filter soon. The only question is what size? 1.25 or rear
cell?

Well it started off iffy but I kept telling myself that Attilla said
it would clear, and thats what I told everyone else that arrived to
look at the clouds at 8:30.

Well just after the last of the twilght had faded the clouds started
to break up, some of the sky was quite clear some was still socked in.
At this point I think there were 6 of us still in the process of
setting up, and talking about scopes when someone shouted and pointed
out ISS screaming across the sky, managed to catch a look or two
through some binocs but could not say that it was a double or not:)
Just after ISS was out of sight someone, I think it was Matt mentioned
that the shuttle should also be making a pass and there it was. Since
I just described ISS as screaming across the sky I must apply an
expletive or two to describe the shuttle so #$@$@ sreaming will have
to do. It really looked like they had the peddal to the metal trying
to catch up.

The night continued till around 2:30 with a fine selection of Ms to be
found in all scopes M51/M53/M31/M91/M3 to name the main ones that I
was after.

It was a wonderful night and I'm sure Matts report will have a lot
more details.

I'd just like to say Cheers to the power of positive thought, I was
not going home without some good photons.

Mike Z

Hi all!

Don't think we will be able to make it for 6:00 pm, what with lessons, chores, and getting cleaned up/driving the earliest we could make it would be 7:00-7:30, drat should have noticed that the 6:00 time would'nt work for us earlier :(
So rather than asking everyone to re-schedule dinner I think we'll have to pass.....

About observing tonight though... wow Attilla how did CMC predict a clear patch out of the Massive cloud bank closing in on us??!
Who knows maybe it'll happen.
BTW thanks for the report! That hickson group turned out ot be much fainter than we initially thought, both guide and Skymap list the Brightest member at 15.0 and the faintest at 16.8!! This would mean that its the faintest extended object I've ever confirmed in the 25"!!
The technique of using very high magnification to confirm an object (over 400x in this case) works very well (if you have tracking), even if the seeing does not allow for it the goal is to get a sighting not to get the aesthetically best image. One just needs to be patient at the eyepiece and wait for the sky to give you that moment to spot the object.

clear skies all

Mike