|
I think the name Alice (in microphones) was created by Scott Helmke. If I remember correctly, it was based on 16mm capsule and a FET circuit.
Now I see "Alice" all over in the mic DIY communities.? Homero Leal calls his "Pimped Alice". Jules Ryckebusch calls his "OPA based Alice".
What defines a microphone an Alice?
|
I will try my best to explain, but Scott, Jules, and Homero can probably answer this better than I can. The "Alice" mic was, as I understand it a minimal parts take on the classic SCHOEPS design. Since it worked really, really well, the design has been used and improved upon.??Homero's "Pimped Alice" has biasing pots, LF EQ, and more improvements to the original circuit.?Jules created the "OPA-based Alice", which is essentially an OPAMP-based Alice circuit since the FETs used in the original circuit are getting harder and harder to get. In summary, I would say that an Alice Microphone, is any microphone that is based upon the original?"Alice" circuit, which is essentially a low part SCHOEPS design.?
-Germar
On Thu, Apr 14, 2022 at 2:02 PM Mic Scharf < micscharf@...> wrote: I think the name Alice (in microphones) was created by Scott Helmke. If I remember correctly, it was based on 16mm capsule and a FET circuit.
Now I see "Alice" all over in the mic DIY communities.? Homero Leal calls his "Pimped Alice". Jules Ryckebusch calls his "OPA based Alice".
What defines a microphone an Alice?
|
Here is the History: (And I am Sure Scott will correct me if I miss something)
Scott hand built mics with this name and a simplified circuit. He named it this because he took photos of it initially?for his ?and felt the initial?ones kinda looked like they were miniaturized and in "Wonderland". I actually added in the bias Pot and published it in my Modify a Cheap?Chinese?Mic Instructable. I coined the term "Pimped Alice". I added it to help bias the FET without hand selecting resistors. Homero designed?and laid out the PCB and was selling them on ebay. He deserves a huge amount of credit for that and the OPA Alice PCB's. Thank you Homero!? I kind of adopted?the name and asked Scott if he minded me naming?my Ambisonic DIY mic the "AmbiAlice"? and for the OPA circuit to be the "OPA-Alice"
Scott Helmke deserves credit for the initial?name. The community here helped it grow and become what it is.?
Jules
On Thu, Apr 14, 2022 at 7:02 AM Mic Scharf < micscharf@...> wrote: I think the name Alice (in microphones) was created by Scott Helmke. If I remember correctly, it was based on 16mm capsule and a FET circuit.
Now I see "Alice" all over in the mic DIY communities.? Homero Leal calls his "Pimped Alice". Jules Ryckebusch calls his "OPA based Alice".
What defines a microphone an Alice?
-- Best Regards,
Jules Ryckebusch
214 399 0931
|
The circuit itself pretty much already existed, as the "phantom
power for Radio Shack PZM" design. Very much a stripped-down Shoeps,
for electret capsules.? The "Alice" really started when we got
access to the Transsounds capsules for the first time, though.? The
definitive Alice is that basic circuit with a TSB-165A capsule.
Also I was listening to Tom Waits' album "Alice" quite a lot during
that period. :)
-Scott
On 4/14/22 07:52, Jules Ryckebusch
wrote:
Here is the History:
(And I am Sure Scott will correct me if I miss something)
Scott hand built mics
with this name and a simplified circuit. He named it this
because he took photos of it initially?for his ?and felt the
initial?ones kinda looked like they were miniaturized and in
"Wonderland". I actually added in the bias Pot and published
it in my Modify a Cheap?Chinese?Mic Instructable. I coined the
term "Pimped Alice". I added it to help bias the FET without
hand selecting resistors. Homero designed?and laid out the PCB
and was selling them on ebay. He deserves a huge amount
of credit for that and the OPA Alice PCB's. Thank you Homero!?
I kind of adopted?the name and asked Scott if he minded me
naming?my Ambisonic DIY mic the "AmbiAlice"? and for the OPA
circuit to be the "OPA-Alice"
Scott Helmke deserves
credit for the initial?name. The community here helped it grow
and become what it is.?
Jules
On Thu, Apr 14, 2022 at 7:02
AM Mic Scharf < micscharf@...>
wrote:
I
think the name Alice (in microphones) was created by Scott
Helmke. If I remember correctly, it was based on 16mm capsule
and a FET circuit.
Now I see "Alice" all over in the mic DIY communities.? Homero
Leal calls his "Pimped Alice". Jules Ryckebusch calls his "OPA
based Alice".
What defines a microphone an Alice?
--
Best
Regards,
Jules Ryckebusch
214 399 0931
--
---- Scott Helmke ---- scott@... ---- (734) 604-9340 ----
"I have ceased distinguishing between the religious and the secular,
for everything is holy" - Joe Henry
|
Hi Jules.?
your name keeps being mentioned in things I read so I thought I’d reach out and first say thanks for putting out support and product that helps mic builders, of which I seem to be becoming.?
Quick backstory. My 20-something son has returned home after a serious life setback. He wants us to do a project together (a first for us in a long time). ?He saw the YouTuber DIY-perks video on a desk-standing broadcast mic. He wants us to make that. I am hoping this is a self-esteem builder situation for him… for us.
I went to the JLI site to see if they have the 2555 electret and possibly an operational amp, so I can eliminate many potential points of failure on a first build. ?I am a novice to electronics, at best. I can solder, a bit.
I saw the Alice OPA *yahoo!* and after some digging, learned you contributed to its placement as a JLI item.?
So, my question to you is: can I simply buy a FET, the OPA Alice and use it for the rest of the DIY-perks project? Or, are there other considerations I should resolve.?
initially i wasn’t sure about powering the board until I learned that “phantom power” is provided by the JLX cable. ?Which brings me to question 2. Can I circumvent the JLX out directly to an Amazon purchased JLX to USB2 cable? My son wants to be able to go straight into his computer.
such as this one:
?
Oh, sorry question 3
I realize the Alice board has no gain control. Does this mean “no gain control, use software” or am I missing something?
so, many questions. If anyone else wants to pose solutions to those three questions, I’ll be very grateful.?
d
|
David, thanks for the props!? You are asking "can I simply buy a FET, the OPA Alice and use it for the rest of the DIY-perks project?" It is a little more complicated than that.?Condenser capsules need a high impedance converter, That is usually a FET. My "innovation" is to use a FET input opamp?in place of one. It lets me also use the opamp to drive the XLR output to the input of a mic preamp or mixer. I use a focusrite audio interface on my Mac or if I am field recording I use a ZoomF6. The OPA Alice circuit replaces the typical internal to the microphone?electronics and assumes that it is being connected to a mic preamp that can supply 48V phantom power to power it.
OK, the DIY Percs one, takes things one step further. He is including a USB interface?into his project. He is using a FET for the impedance converter then going into a USB A/D converter. The OPA Alice circuit does not directly?lend itself to achieving this. I looked at the Amazon USBC- XLR cable you mention and I am guessing it does not supply phantom power.?
The OPA Alice circuit is unity gain. As it is intended for internal to the mic, gain needs are met by the mic preamp.
The DIY percs and the OPA Alice with TSB255B are kind of apples and oranges.
Jules
Hi Jules.?
your name keeps being mentioned in things I read so I thought I’d reach out and first say thanks for putting out support and product that helps mic builders, of which I seem to be becoming.?
Quick backstory. My 20-something son has returned home after a serious life setback. He wants us to do a project together (a first for us in a long time).? He saw the YouTuber DIY-perks video on a desk-standing broadcast mic. He wants us to make that. I am hoping this is a self-esteem builder situation for him… for us.
I went to the JLI site to see if they have the 2555 electret and possibly an operational amp, so I can eliminate many potential points of failure on a first build.? I am a novice to electronics, at best. I can solder, a bit.
I saw the Alice OPA *yahoo!* and after some digging, learned you contributed to its placement as a JLI item.?
So, my question to you is: can I simply buy a FET, the OPA Alice and use it for the rest of the DIY-perks project? Or, are there other considerations I should resolve.?
initially i wasn’t sure about powering the board until I learned that “phantom power” is provided by the JLX cable.? Which brings me to question 2. Can I circumvent the JLX out directly to an Amazon purchased JLX to USB2 cable? My son wants to be able to go straight into his computer.
such as this one:
?
Oh, sorry question 3
I realize the Alice board has no gain control. Does this mean “no gain control, use software” or am I missing something?
so, many questions. If anyone else wants to pose solutions to those three questions, I’ll be very grateful.?
d
-- Best Regards,
Jules Ryckebusch
214 399 0931
|
If you're not allergic to using a battery, this sounds like an application for a classic "battery box" design. FET on the capsule, and then after that it's basically a resistor and cap or two, plus a 9v battery.? What comes out is an unbalanced signal that's usually in a pretty good range for a computer mic input.
-Scott
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On 2/20/24 16:36, Jules Ryckebusch wrote: David, thanks for the props!? You are asking "can I simply buy a FET, the OPA Alice and use it for the rest of the DIY-perks project?" It is a little more complicated than that. Condenser capsules need a high impedance converter, That is usually a FET. My "innovation" is to use a FET input opamp?in place of one. It lets me also use the opamp to drive the XLR output to the input of a mic preamp or mixer. I use a focusrite audio interface on my Mac or if I am field recording I use a ZoomF6. The OPA Alice circuit replaces the typical internal to the microphone?electronics and assumes that it is being connected to a mic preamp that can supply 48V phantom power to power it.
OK, the DIY Percs one, takes things one step further. He is including a USB interface?into his project. He is using a FET for the impedance converter then going into a USB A/D converter. The OPA Alice circuit does not directly?lend itself to achieving this. I looked at the Amazon USBC- XLR cable you mention and I am guessing it does not supply phantom power.
The OPA Alice circuit is unity gain. As it is intended for internal to the mic, gain needs are met by the mic preamp.
The DIY percs and the OPA Alice with TSB255B are kind of apples and oranges.
Jules
On Tue, Feb 20, 2024 at 4:04?PM David Lau <david.lau@...> wrote:
Hi Jules.
your name keeps being mentioned in things I read so I thought I’d
reach out and first say thanks for putting out support and product
that helps mic builders, of which I seem to be becoming.
Quick backstory. My 20-something son has returned home after a
serious life setback. He wants us to do a project together (a
first for us in a long time).? He saw the YouTuber DIY-perks video
on a desk-standing broadcast mic. He wants us to make that. I am
hoping this is a self-esteem builder situation for him… for us.
I went to the JLI site to see if they have the 2555 electret and
possibly an operational amp, so I can eliminate many potential
points of failure on a first build.? I am a novice to electronics,
at best. I can solder, a bit.
I saw the Alice OPA *yahoo!* and after some digging, learned you
contributed to its placement as a JLI item.
So, my question to you is: can I simply buy a FET, the OPA Alice
and use it for the rest of the DIY-perks project? Or, are there
other considerations I should resolve.
initially i wasn’t sure about powering the board until I learned
that “phantom power” is provided by the JLX cable. Which brings me
to question 2. Can I circumvent the JLX out directly to an Amazon
purchased JLX to USB2 cable? My son wants to be able to go
straight into his computer.
such as this one:
<>
Oh, sorry question 3
I realize the Alice board has no gain control. Does this mean “no
gain control, use software” or am I missing something?
so, many questions. If anyone else wants to pose solutions to
those three questions, I’ll be very grateful.
d
--
Best Regards,
Jules Ryckebusch
214 399 0931
Linkedin <>
--
---- Scott Helmke ---- scott@... ---- (734) 604-9340 ----
"I have ceased distinguishing between the religious and the secular,
for everything is holy" - Joe Henry
|
That sounds like a cheap and cheerful solution. I’m not opposed to 9 volt batteries. I can ask my son if he wants to lower the technical difficulty threshold …
Where would I find a reliable diagram/instructions for such thing?
thanks!
David
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On Feb 20, 2024, at 6:37 PM, Scott Helmke <scott@...> wrote:
If you're not allergic to using a battery, this sounds like an application for a classic "battery box" design. FET on the capsule, and then after that it's basically a resistor and cap or two, plus a 9v battery. What comes out is an unbalanced signal that's usually in a pretty good range for a computer mic input.
-Scott
On 2/20/24 16:36, Jules Ryckebusch wrote:
David, thanks for the props! You are asking "can I simply buy a FET, the OPA Alice and use it for the rest of the DIY-perks project?" It is a little more complicated than that. Condenser capsules need a high impedance converter, That is usually a FET. My "innovation" is to use a FET input opamp in place of one. It lets me also use the opamp to drive the XLR output to the input of a mic preamp or mixer. I use a focusrite audio interface on my Mac or if I am field recording I use a ZoomF6. The OPA Alice circuit replaces the typical internal to the microphone electronics and assumes that it is being connected to a mic preamp that can supply 48V phantom power to power it.
OK, the DIY Percs one, takes things one step further. He is including a USB interface into his project. He is using a FET for the impedance converter then going into a USB A/D converter. The OPA Alice circuit does not directly lend itself to achieving this. I looked at the Amazon USBC- XLR cable you mention and I am guessing it does not supply phantom power.
The OPA Alice circuit is unity gain. As it is intended for internal to the mic, gain needs are met by the mic preamp.
The DIY percs and the OPA Alice with TSB255B are kind of apples and oranges.
Jules
On Tue, Feb 20, 2024 at 4:04?PM David Lau <david.lau@...> wrote:
Hi Jules.
your name keeps being mentioned in things I read so I thought I’d
reach out and first say thanks for putting out support and product
that helps mic builders, of which I seem to be becoming.
Quick backstory. My 20-something son has returned home after a
serious life setback. He wants us to do a project together (a
first for us in a long time). He saw the YouTuber DIY-perks video
on a desk-standing broadcast mic. He wants us to make that. I am
hoping this is a self-esteem builder situation for him… for us.
I went to the JLI site to see if they have the 2555 electret and
possibly an operational amp, so I can eliminate many potential
points of failure on a first build. I am a novice to electronics,
at best. I can solder, a bit.
I saw the Alice OPA *yahoo!* and after some digging, learned you
contributed to its placement as a JLI item.
So, my question to you is: can I simply buy a FET, the OPA Alice
and use it for the rest of the DIY-perks project? Or, are there
other considerations I should resolve.
initially i wasn’t sure about powering the board until I learned
that “phantom power” is provided by the JLX cable. Which brings me
to question 2. Can I circumvent the JLX out directly to an Amazon
purchased JLX to USB2 cable? My son wants to be able to go
straight into his computer.
such as this one:
<>
Oh, sorry question 3
I realize the Alice board has no gain control. Does this mean “no
gain control, use software” or am I missing something?
so, many questions. If anyone else wants to pose solutions to
those three questions, I’ll be very grateful.
d
--
Best Regards,
Jules Ryckebusch
214 399 0931
Linkedin <>
--
---- Scott Helmke ---- scott@... ---- (734) 604-9340 ----
"I have ceased distinguishing between the religious and the secular,
for everything is holy" - Joe Henry
|
Thanks for the robust reply.
Luckily google searches provide me with explanations of what are: high impedance converter and unity gain.
I noticed that the XLR had a significant voltage range 5-48 volts. Wikipedia says that:?All USB-C cables must be able to carry?a minimum of 3 A current (at 5 V, for 15 W) but some can carry 5 A current (at 20 V, for 100 W).?
I looked through the?specifications of the board and did not see a?minimum voltage requirement.?
After looking at several Amazon USB->JLX cables, I noticed one suggested it is?inadequate to supply phantom power, and to get a PPS for condenser?mic.
I understand that the Focusright line of products provides an audiophile level of?sound quality, for my son’s purposes, he wants to do some?live-streaming and play video games. Audiophile recording quality levels of sonic purity aren’t?required. I did notice that the Scarlett Solo has a USB-C out. But its price range also rules it out for us.
If what I suggested above is ridiculous, I can accept that. Maybe I'd better just get a breadboard and try not to ruin too many transistors and capacitors. Or, are you aware of another board that can take the signal from the 2555 and shoot out a signal that can go to a USB protocol??‘No’?is a fine?answer.?
: )
By the way, I noticed in your FB profile that?you’re a retired USN submariner. I spent a decade?with the Canadian Navy and was part of the Canadianization and major refit (and then another minor refit) of the Victoria Class hunter-killer subs. I'm proud of the small role I played in getting those introduced to the Fleet and, assuring?their?ability?to resurface and do some sneaky underwater stuff.
thanks again,
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
David, thanks for the props!? You are asking "can I simply buy a FET, the OPA Alice and use it for the rest of the DIY-perks project?" It is a little more complicated than that.?Condenser capsules need a high impedance converter, That is usually a FET. My "innovation" is to use a FET input opamp?in place of one. It lets me also use the opamp to drive the XLR output to the input of a mic preamp or mixer. I use a focusrite audio interface on my Mac or if I am field recording I use a ZoomF6. The OPA Alice circuit replaces the typical internal to the microphone?electronics and assumes that it is being connected to a mic preamp that can supply 48V phantom power to power it.
OK, the DIY Percs one, takes things one step further. He is including a USB interface?into his project. He is using a FET for the impedance converter then going into a USB A/D converter. The OPA Alice circuit does not directly?lend itself to achieving this. I looked at the Amazon USBC- XLR cable you mention and I am guessing it does not supply phantom power.?
The OPA Alice circuit is unity gain. As it is intended for internal to the mic, gain needs are met by the mic preamp.
The DIY percs and the OPA Alice with TSB255B are kind of apples and oranges.
Jules Hi Jules.? your name keeps being mentioned in things I read so I thought I’d reach out and first say thanks for putting out support and product that helps mic builders, of which I seem to be becoming.?
Quick backstory. My 20-something son has returned home after a serious life setback. He wants us to do a project together (a first for us in a long time).? He saw the YouTuber DIY-perks video on a desk-standing broadcast mic. He wants us to make that. I am hoping this is a self-esteem builder situation for him… for us.
I went to the JLI site to see if they have the 2555 electret and possibly an operational amp, so I can eliminate many potential points of failure on a first build.? I am a novice to electronics, at best. I can solder, a bit.
I saw the Alice OPA *yahoo!* and after some digging, learned you contributed to its placement as a JLI item.?
So, my question to you is: can I simply buy a FET, the OPA Alice and use it for the rest of the DIY-perks project? Or, are there other considerations I should resolve.?
initially i wasn’t sure about powering the board until I learned that “phantom power” is provided by the JLX cable.? Which brings me to question 2. Can I circumvent the JLX out directly to an Amazon purchased JLX to USB2 cable? My son wants to be able to go straight into his computer.
such as this one:
?
Oh, sorry question 3
I realize the Alice board has no gain control. Does this mean “no gain control, use software” or am I missing something?
so, many questions. If anyone else wants to pose solutions to those three questions, I’ll be very grateful.?
d
-- Best Regards,
Jules Ryckebusch
214 399 0931
|
Phantom power is defined as 48vdc through a parallel pair of 6.8k resistors, so the total current ends up being about 14mA total.? A lot of mic manufacturers build their mics to handle lower voltages, sometimes down to 12vdc, because some of the mixers and other gear cheaps out on the power supply voltage.
If your son is doing gaming and streaming, you might look into little mixer/interface boxes designed for just that.? This Yamaha unit does have a proper phantom-powered mic input and preamp:
-Scott
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On 2/20/24 21:15, David Lau wrote: Thanks for the robust reply.
Luckily google searches provide me with explanations of what are: high impedance converter and unity gain.
I noticed that the XLR had a significant voltage range 5-48 volts. Wikipedia says that: All USB-C cables must be able to carry a minimum of 3 A current (at 5 V, for 15 W) but some can carry 5 A current (at 20 V, for 100 W).
I looked through the?specifications of the board and did not see a?minimum voltage requirement.
After looking at several Amazon USB->JLX cables, I noticed one suggested it is?inadequate to supply phantom power, and to get a PPS for condenser mic.
I understand that the Focusright line of products provides an audiophile level of?sound quality, for my son’s purposes, he wants to do some?live-streaming and play video games. Audiophile recording quality levels of sonic purity aren’t required. I did notice that the Scarlett Solo has a USB-C out. But its price range also rules it out for us.
If what I suggested above is ridiculous, I can accept that. Maybe I'd better just get a breadboard and try not to ruin too many transistors and capacitors. Or, are you aware of another board that can take the signal from the 2555 and shoot out a signal that can go to a USB protocol??‘No’?is a fine answer.
: )
By the way, I noticed in your FB profile that?you’re a retired USN submariner. I spent a decade?with the Canadian Navy and was part of the Canadianization and major refit (and then another minor refit) of the Victoria Class hunter-killer subs. I'm proud of the small role I played in getting those introduced to the Fleet and, assuring?their?ability?to resurface and do some sneaky underwater stuff.
thanks again,
D
On Feb 20, 2024, at 2:36 PM, Jules Ryckebusch <ryckebusch@...> wrote:
David, thanks for the props!? You are asking "can I simply buy a FET, the OPA Alice and use it for the rest of the DIY-perks project?" It is a little more complicated than that. Condenser capsules need a high impedance converter, That is usually a FET. My "innovation" is to use a FET input opamp?in place of one. It lets me also use the opamp to drive the XLR output to the input of a mic preamp or mixer. I use a focusrite audio interface on my Mac or if I am field recording I use a ZoomF6. The OPA Alice circuit replaces the typical internal to the microphone?electronics and assumes that it is being connected to a mic preamp that can supply 48V phantom power to power it.
OK, the DIY Percs one, takes things one step further. He is including a USB interface?into his project. He is using a FET for the impedance converter then going into a USB A/D converter. The OPA Alice circuit does not directly?lend itself to achieving this. I looked at the Amazon USBC- XLR cable you mention and I am guessing it does not supply phantom power.
The OPA Alice circuit is unity gain. As it is intended for internal to the mic, gain needs are met by the mic preamp.
The DIY percs and the OPA Alice with TSB255B are kind of apples and oranges.
Jules
On Tue, Feb 20, 2024 at 4:04?PM David Lau <david.lau@...> wrote:
Hi Jules.
your name keeps being mentioned in things I read so I thought I’d
reach out and first say thanks for putting out support and
product that helps mic builders, of which I seem to be becoming.
Quick backstory. My 20-something son has returned home after a
serious life setback. He wants us to do a project together (a
first for us in a long time). He saw the YouTuber DIY-perks video
on a desk-standing broadcast mic. He wants us to make that. I am
hoping this is a self-esteem builder situation for him… for us.
I went to the JLI site to see if they have the 2555 electret and
possibly an operational amp, so I can eliminate many potential
points of failure on a first build.? I am a novice to
electronics, at best. I can solder, a bit.
I saw the Alice OPA *yahoo!* and after some digging, learned you
contributed to its placement as a JLI item.
So, my question to you is: can I simply buy a FET, the OPA Alice
and use it for the rest of the DIY-perks project? Or, are there
other considerations I should resolve.
initially i wasn’t sure about powering the board until I learned
that “phantom power” is provided by the JLX cable.? Which brings
me to question 2. Can I circumvent the JLX out directly to an
Amazon purchased JLX to USB2 cable? My son wants to be able to go
straight into his computer.
such as this one:
<>
Oh, sorry question 3
I realize the Alice board has no gain control. Does this mean “no
gain control, use software” or am I missing something?
so, many questions. If anyone else wants to pose solutions to
those three questions, I’ll be very grateful.
d
--
Best Regards,
Jules Ryckebusch
214 399 0931
Linkedin <>
--
---- Scott Helmke ---- scott@... ---- (734) 604-9340 ----
"I have ceased distinguishing between the religious and the secular,
for everything is holy" - Joe Henry
|
Thank you again Scott. It’s an impressive device. As I mentioned earlier my son has had some significant life setbacks and our family is adapting to a new reality. Maybe next Christmas we’ll be in a place to make that a gift for him. Until then, he seems okay working with me to create something with the resources we have - a sum of all parts outcome.
D
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On Feb 20, 2024, at 7:53?PM, Scott Helmke <scott@...> wrote:
?Phantom power is defined as 48vdc through a parallel pair of 6.8k resistors, so the total current ends up being about 14mA total. A lot of mic manufacturers build their mics to handle lower voltages, sometimes down to 12vdc, because some of the mixers and other gear cheaps out on the power supply voltage.
If your son is doing gaming and streaming, you might look into little mixer/interface boxes designed for just that. This Yamaha unit does have a proper phantom-powered mic input and preamp:
-Scott
On 2/20/24 21:15, David Lau wrote:
Thanks for the robust reply.
Luckily google searches provide me with explanations of what are: high impedance converter and unity gain.
I noticed that the XLR had a significant voltage range 5-48 volts. Wikipedia says that: All USB-C cables must be able to carry a minimum of 3 A current (at 5 V, for 15 W) but some can carry 5 A current (at 20 V, for 100 W).
I looked through the specifications of the board and did not see a minimum voltage requirement.
After looking at several Amazon USB->JLX cables, I noticed one suggested it is inadequate to supply phantom power, and to get a PPS for condenser mic.
I understand that the Focusright line of products provides an audiophile level of sound quality, for my son’s purposes, he wants to do some live-streaming and play video games. Audiophile recording quality levels of sonic purity aren’t required. I did notice that the Scarlett Solo has a USB-C out. But its price range also rules it out for us.
If what I suggested above is ridiculous, I can accept that. Maybe I'd better just get a breadboard and try not to ruin too many transistors and capacitors. Or, are you aware of another board that can take the signal from the 2555 and shoot out a signal that can go to a USB protocol? ‘No’ is a fine answer.
: )
By the way, I noticed in your FB profile that you’re a retired USN submariner. I spent a decade with the Canadian Navy and was part of the Canadianization and major refit (and then another minor refit) of the Victoria Class hunter-killer subs. I'm proud of the small role I played in getting those introduced to the Fleet and, assuring their ability to resurface and do some sneaky underwater stuff.
thanks again,
D
On Feb 20, 2024, at 2:36 PM, Jules Ryckebusch <ryckebusch@...> wrote: David, thanks for the props! You are asking "can I simply buy a FET, the OPA Alice and use it for the rest of the DIY-perks project?" It is a little more complicated than that. Condenser capsules need a high impedance converter, That is usually a FET. My "innovation" is to use a FET input opamp in place of one. It lets me also use the opamp to drive the XLR output to the input of a mic preamp or mixer. I use a focusrite audio interface on my Mac or if I am field recording I use a ZoomF6. The OPA Alice circuit replaces the typical internal to the microphone electronics and assumes that it is being connected to a mic preamp that can supply 48V phantom power to power it.
OK, the DIY Percs one, takes things one step further. He is including a USB interface into his project. He is using a FET for the impedance converter then going into a USB A/D converter. The OPA Alice circuit does not directly lend itself to achieving this. I looked at the Amazon USBC- XLR cable you mention and I am guessing it does not supply phantom power.
The OPA Alice circuit is unity gain. As it is intended for internal to the mic, gain needs are met by the mic preamp.
The DIY percs and the OPA Alice with TSB255B are kind of apples and oranges.
Jules
On Tue, Feb 20, 2024 at 4:04?PM David Lau <david.lau@...> wrote: Hi Jules.
your name keeps being mentioned in things I read so I thought I’d
reach out and first say thanks for putting out support and
product that helps mic builders, of which I seem to be becoming.
Quick backstory. My 20-something son has returned home after a
serious life setback. He wants us to do a project together (a
first for us in a long time). He saw the YouTuber DIY-perks video
on a desk-standing broadcast mic. He wants us to make that. I am
hoping this is a self-esteem builder situation for him… for us.
I went to the JLI site to see if they have the 2555 electret and
possibly an operational amp, so I can eliminate many potential
points of failure on a first build. I am a novice to
electronics, at best. I can solder, a bit.
I saw the Alice OPA *yahoo!* and after some digging, learned you
contributed to its placement as a JLI item.
So, my question to you is: can I simply buy a FET, the OPA Alice
and use it for the rest of the DIY-perks project? Or, are there
other considerations I should resolve.
initially i wasn’t sure about powering the board until I learned
that “phantom power” is provided by the JLX cable. Which brings
me to question 2. Can I circumvent the JLX out directly to an
Amazon purchased JLX to USB2 cable? My son wants to be able to go
straight into his computer.
such as this one:
<>
Oh, sorry question 3
I realize the Alice board has no gain control. Does this mean “no
gain control, use software” or am I missing something?
so, many questions. If anyone else wants to pose solutions to
those three questions, I’ll be very grateful.
d
--
Best Regards,
Jules Ryckebusch
214 399 0931
Linkedin <>
--
---- Scott Helmke ---- scott@... ---- (734) 604-9340 ----
"I have ceased distinguishing between the religious and the secular,
for everything is holy" - Joe Henry
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Howdy David. You and your son might begin the project researching how microphones are constructed, how they work, and how they are used in various applications by searching the Internet and discovering a treasure trove of information at no cost. I am NOT being critical in any way. I merely suggest you can acquire a full education tapping a large body of online resources before spending your hard earned brass on specific equipment or components. For example, there are several helpful and informative articles on www.instructables.com, and by reading the message archive for this and other relevant online discussion groups, and reading many web sites. Online product catalogs can be a good source of information explaining how stuff works and how much it costs. I have downloaded whole books in .pdf format at no cost.
You and your son can share and exchange what you learn over coffee, tea, or root beer, and enjoy the learning process together, ultimately acquiring an education and a new hobby building your own audio equipment. This will maximize purchase decisions, and minimize spending time and money in the wrong direction.
This is a serious suggestion and NOT a subtle way of telling you to read the manual. I do this for all of my hobbies, saving time and money and having a good time knowing what I am doing. At least that is just MY take - your mileage may vary. My road to Heck is well paved with all of my good intentions !! :-)
Good luck. JHR
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David I’m still not 100% sure what we are ?helping you with here. ?If unit is a simple project you can do with your son that is audio related we can come up with suggestions. I feel you are trying to stick with a specific technology. ?What is your ideal end goal here? ?You mention “ ?I noticed that the XLR had a significant voltage range 5-48 volts. Wikipedia says that:?All USB-C cables must be able to carry?a minimum of 3 A current (at 5 V, for 15 W) but some can carry 5 A current (at 20 V, for 100 W). ” ?that is specific for USB cables. The XLR to usb one you show has internal electronics built in ?it is not a straight internal connection in any way ?
Best Regards,
Jules Ryckebusch?
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On Feb 20, 2024, at 21:15, David Lau <david.lau@...> wrote:
I noticed that the XLR had a significant voltage range 5-48 volts. Wikipedia says that:?All USB-C cables must be able to carry?a minimum of 3 A current (at 5 V, for 15 W) but some can carry 5 A current (at 20 V, for 100 W).?
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On Tue, Feb 20, 2024 at 07:10 PM, David Lau wrote:
Where would I find a reliable diagram/instructions for [a battery box]?
I built a battery box like, um 22+ years ago, that served me for almost 20 years, and parked the details in the files section of this site.You'll find schematic, notes and pictures there. A few caveats on this design:
- I used tantalum capacitors for the larger values; they worked and are small, but to do again I would use electrolytic caps instead.
- It's kind of small and cramped, and it was hard to fit everything in there. A bigger enclosure is recommended.
- I selected 5.6k as the drain resistor to the 9v battery. It worked with the little omni electret capsules i've used. But you should probably make bench tests with your chosen electret to ensure that the voltage @ current at the capsule are within the maker's specs.
It gave me great service, but about 2 years ago that box started going intermittent, most likely due to the tiny switches. At that time i made a new battery box, this time with bigger switches, in a slightly bigger aluminum project box. But I've misplaced my notes on the new box [blush] so i can't recall what circuit changes I made. If/when I find them, I will update the notes on file here. You also have the option of grabbing 5v from the USB connection. Last suggestions: save yourself the hassle of working with a bare electret capsule and a separate FET, and select a capsule that has the FET impedance converter already included - examples: JLI-2590A, TSB-140A, PUI AUM-5241L-HD. For your application (desktop mic with basic USB audio adaptor) you will get very good results with one of these, without needing to jump through all the hoops of separate FET/opamp. There are simpler preamp circuits than the "DIY-Perks" THAT opamp with its +/-15v requirements, that would run from the same 9v battery, or even from (USB) 5v. I don't have one to recommend, but others might. Good luck!
?
?
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Thanks for the solid suggestions JHR.
I'm here because I believe in that methodology of exploration. I'm just a week into it and have found a wide range of very useful resources. My background professionally is based around inquisitiveness and innovation and I'm approaching this the same way I would any other professional projects that I would be charged with completing. Finding an expert group for feedback is an important part of the process. I truly appreciate how available and generous you all are.
I'm embarrassed to say that my actual understanding of electronic circuit design is not good. It should be considering all the things I have been associated with. Maybe in my retirement I’ll take more courses. I'm working on improving this and lately have been studying speaker crossover design. Signal amplification is on the list and it looks like the time is now.
For the purposes I have right now, I think a battery box design as suggested by Jennjava and Scott Helmke may be a great way ahead.
Without going into too many details, Im hoping a simple success will be enough to help garner interest and break my guy out of his situation a bit. If its good but perfectible, he may want to go deeper and we can make a version two that requires a more complex board. But, at the moment, He needs a "minor success" and not a “major frustration”.
I’ll post pictures as we progress.
: )
D
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On Feb 21, 2024, at 7:24 AM, Richards <jrichards@...> wrote:
Howdy David. You and your son might begin the project researching how microphones are constructed, how they work, and how they are used in various applications by searching the Internet and discovering a treasure trove of information at no cost. I am NOT being critical in any way. I merely suggest you can acquire a full education tapping a large body of online resources before spending your hard earned brass on specific equipment or components. For example, there are several helpful and informative articles on www.instructables.com, and by reading the message archive for this and other relevant online discussion groups, and reading many web sites. Online product catalogs can be a good source of information explaining how stuff works and how much it costs. I have downloaded whole books in .pdf format at no cost.
You and your son can share and exchange what you learn over coffee, tea, or root beer, and enjoy the learning process together, ultimately acquiring an education and a new hobby building your own audio equipment. This will maximize purchase decisions, and minimize spending time and money in the wrong direction.
This is a serious suggestion and NOT a subtle way of telling you to read the manual. I do this for all of my hobbies, saving time and money and having a good time knowing what I am doing. At least that is just MY take - your mileage may vary. My road to Heck is well paved with all of my good intentions !! :-)
Good luck. JHR
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Hi Jules:
Not wanting to be overly critical of the youtube project I was referring to…. I noticed that many of that person's projects are not fully realized. Or well-realized. He has very curious ideas and makes prototypes but I always find issues with the materials and processes he employs. For example. In this mic project, he uses brass tube and rod (nice); but he uses regular lead solder for all the connections and joints - not silver solder which won’t break and bend. His methodology of making the enclosure from many perspectives is shoddy. I'm making improvements as I go.
What I came to realize is that his amp board didn’t say to use audiophile grade capacitors - it left me wondering how good the whole circuit design actually was. When I read through the project’s chat I found that very many people could not get a decent output signal despite following his directions. So, I decided to look into a previously assembled board and yours listed on JLI was the most logical: 1/ made for that mic body, 2/ suggested by JLI, 3/already assembled with the electronic bits soldered into place and everything, 4/ I presume it is tested.
The only questions was how to give it a USB2 output and a power supply. So, I asked you.?
It seemed logical that if the boards output is a JLX, then locating a JLX -> USB adapter (amazon product) would be the least circuitous route to getting a viable mic with a very good sound quality. Realizing that the Amazon product has an internal chipset it does introduce some questions that I suppose it would take some signal analysis to figure out. Another skillset I lack.
If that is not a possibility, then any reliable solution will be great. If its me building a basic battery box design and using the USB2 power in place of the 9 volt battery, then I am totally good doing that. When we design project #2, my son and I could try a more interesting opamp solution.
Thanks again for your time helping me clarify a basic project. I understand that you probably enjoy discussing more advanced questions.
have a great day. D
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I noticed that the XLR had a significant voltage range 5-48 volts. Wikipedia says that:?
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Le 21/02/2024 à 22:29, David Lau a écrit?: but he uses regular lead solder for all the connections and joints - not silver solder which won’t break and bend. I've used tin-lead solder all my life without any issues. Silver solder has its own pros and cons.
What I came to realize is that his amp board didn’t say to use audiophile grade capacitors -
Many so-called "audiophile capacitors" are just a marketing exercise. It seems you are contaminated by the numerous snake-oil vendors/apostles that infest the internet. There is more value in the design of a circuit than in the components it uses.
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You could be right about the issues relating to capacitors. I'm absolutely no electrical engineer, but I respect their work and if an electrical engineer says they have made materials improvements that allow a cleaner audio form signal, or is more stable in different temperatures/humidities, or can handle a higher current without temperature affecting performance, or has a longer lifespan with less signal degradation over it, ..or many other situations that an audio application may present…. then, I am not going to presume that I know better. I have had to re-cap enough audio devices to be able to identify cheap capacitors vs the higher quality ones that never seem to need replacing, I have old speakers with high quality caps that sound better than when I first bought them and new speakers that sound a world better when I swap out for caps that are “snake-oil”. Perhaps low current devices aren’t affected as much as higher powered amps and speakers pushing over 500volts? I don’t know because I am not a circuit designer. You are probably correct in saying that many capacitors are labelled as “audio grade” with no real difference. I would hope that a reputable company like Nichikon would not be that disingenuous.
Regarding silver solder, I use several varieties of lead solder for stained glass, plumbing and electrical/electronics and sometimes automotive body restoration. For those purposes, it is great. For structural uses it is just not great. I worked quite intensely with machinists who spent their lifetimes repairing, designing and improving military spec devices. They were supported by a world-class group of military materials engineers whose devices had to pass very difficult standards. If I told them I built a thin-walled brass-tube structure and expected plumber’s solder to withstand any degree of use/abuse, they would have a hearty laugh at me. Years ago my son broke his tuba. The brass instrument shop pointed out a cheap lead solder repair someone had previously made. They effected a professional repair with silver solder since that is how all brass instruments are connected. Silver solder has a far stronger ionic metal bond and is a harder material, it will withstand more vibration and torsion without distorting, cracking or de-bonding. If I wanted to absolutely secure brass fittings, I would braze them. However, brazing thin-wall pipe is not a skill I have.
Another issue of this particular project was that some people (including myself) used stainless mesh for the mic cover, not brass mesh. They tried to solder grounding wire to stainless. Failure. Silver solder will do that. Regarding this particular project, where the scaffold-frame attaches to the mounting box, the pipe ought to have been tapped for threads, inserted into the base with a strengthening collar, and then secured with washers and nuts. But it's just Youtube. : )
D
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On Feb 21, 2024, at 1:55 PM, Jerry Lee Marcel <jerryleemarcel@...> wrote:
Le 21/02/2024 à 22:29, David Lau a écrit :
but he uses regular lead solder for all the connections and joints - not silver solder which won’t break and bend. I've used tin-lead solder all my life without any issues. Silver solder has its own pros and cons.
What I came to realize is that his amp board didn’t say to use audiophile grade capacitors -
Many so-called "audiophile capacitors" are just a marketing exercise.
It seems you are contaminated by the numerous snake-oil vendors/apostles that infest the internet.
There is more value in the design of a circuit than in the components it uses.
|
David, you are actually up my alley for projects. I'm not a fan of published DIY projects that can't?easily be built. I am all about both simple and complex?projects but they need to be repeatable. And, have parts that can be sourced easily. One reason I am going the route I am with?audio is I know what I can and can't do. One of the challenges of DIY's audio interfaces etc. is the grounding and shielding. That is both art and science. building a USB interface inside the mic is not the easiest thing to do while having a good clean signal with a really low noise floor. He is using a really good Mic Preamp IC chip, the THAT Corp. Then he uses perf board, not optimal grounding and a not well?designed?USB interface that is put in close proximity to the analog circuitry. I digress.?
There are inexpensive but good USB interfaces. THis one? is about 15 bucks, is stereo and will let you connect an Electret capsule with built in fet right to it. Could be a simple project with a big win for you.?
Hi Jules:
Not wanting to be overly critical of the youtube project I was referring to…. I noticed that many of that person's projects are not fully realized. Or well-realized. He has very curious ideas and makes prototypes but I always find issues with the materials and processes he employs. For example. In this mic project, he uses brass tube and rod (nice); but he uses regular lead solder for all the connections and joints - not silver solder which won’t break and bend. His methodology of making the enclosure from many perspectives is shoddy. I'm making improvements as I go.
What I came to realize is that his amp board didn’t say to use audiophile grade capacitors - it left me wondering how good the whole circuit design actually was. When I read through the project’s chat I found that very many people could not get a decent output signal despite following his directions. So, I decided to look into a previously assembled board and yours listed on JLI was the most logical: 1/ made for that mic body, 2/ suggested by JLI, 3/already assembled with the electronic bits soldered into place and everything, 4/ I presume it is tested.
The only questions was how to give it a USB2 output and a power supply. So, I asked you.?
It seemed logical that if the boards output is a JLX, then locating a JLX -> USB adapter (amazon product) would be the least circuitous route to getting a viable mic with a very good sound quality. Realizing that the Amazon product has an internal chipset it does introduce some questions that I suppose it would take some signal analysis to figure out. Another skillset I lack.
If that is not a possibility, then any reliable solution will be great. If its me building a basic battery box design and using the USB2 power in place of the 9 volt battery, then I am totally good doing that. When we design project #2, my son and I could try a more interesting opamp solution.
Thanks again for your time helping me clarify a basic project. I understand that you probably enjoy discussing more advanced questions.
have a great day. D
I noticed that the XLR had a significant voltage range 5-48 volts. Wikipedia says that:?
-- Best Regards,
Jules Ryckebusch
214 399 0931
|
Hi David, I have been flowing this thread. I just want to support you and your son in your journey in Mic construction together. As a dad I am in your corner.? ?As far as tech goes I can't add to what has been suggested by the ones with real expertise. I can though tell you about my Mic building experience through following in the footsteps of Jules.? I have pretty poor soldering skills yet I have built two of the regular Alices. One on project board and one on strip board. I have built two of the OPA Alices from scratch and one using the OPA board from JLI. All of them have worked well. If I can do it I am sure a man of your life's experience will walk through the project with aplomb. Now if I may make a suggestion. If you just follow the instructables that Jules made you and your son will finish with a high quality Mic and the satisfaction of a journey completed together. If pressed I could not explain how all the parts I put on the boards work. All I know is coupled with great directions and my ability to follow directions I have some good microphones. I know your son wants to in essence have a USB condenser Mic. But audio interfaces can be had for little money used. Then you would have an even better situation.? ?As far as having the best parts I just followed Jules suggestions. No need to over think and analyse the thing to death. After I built Jules version I saw the DIY perks design. If you follow his design I think you would do well. That is one beautiful Mic he built. You could build the external parkbof the DIY perks model and simple put OPA Alices internals in it. That would be a great crossover project.? ?I have a Behringer UM2 interface I will send you for free if you like. Just tell me where to send it.? ccclark3693@....? Best wishes to you and your son !!
---- On Tue, 20 Feb 2024 17:02:01 -0500 david.lau@... wrote ----
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Hi Jules.?
your name keeps being mentioned in things I read so I thought I’d reach out and first say thanks for putting out support and product that helps mic builders, of which I seem to be becoming.?
Quick backstory. My 20-something son has returned home after a serious life setback. He wants us to do a project together (a first for us in a long time). ?He saw the YouTuber DIY-perks video on a desk-standing broadcast mic. He wants us to make that. I am hoping this is a self-esteem builder situation for him… for us.
I went to the JLI site to see if they have the 2555 electret and possibly an operational amp, so I can eliminate many potential points of failure on a first build. ?I am a novice to electronics, at best. I can solder, a bit.
I saw the Alice OPA *yahoo!* and after some digging, learned you contributed to its placement as a JLI item.?
So, my question to you is: can I simply buy a FET, the OPA Alice and use it for the rest of the DIY-perks project? Or, are there other considerations I should resolve.?
initially i wasn’t sure about powering the board until I learned that “phantom power” is provided by the JLX cable. ?Which brings me to question 2. Can I circumvent the JLX out directly to an Amazon purchased JLX to USB2 cable? My son wants to be able to go straight into his computer.
such as this one:
?
Oh, sorry question 3
I realize the Alice board has no gain control. Does this mean “no gain control, use software” or am I missing something?
so, many questions. If anyone else wants to pose solutions to those three questions, I’ll be very grateful.?
d
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Mic Scharf