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Ever since I built a few pairs of Jules' hydrophones, I have been interested in new ways to make recordings with things other than traditional diaphragm microphones. I have been thinking about building a set of contact mics using Jules' circuit and a flat piezo disk. One of the things I want to record is a passing train.
Then I got to thinking...I also having been tinkering with electric guitar builds and I have a few cheap pickups from kit guitars where I replaced them with better ones. Rails are steel. Like guitar strings.
What about putting a pickup on each rail. Run them through direct boxes and into my Mixpre and record a passing train?
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On Wednesday, October 30, 2024 at 07:43:29 PM EDT, Mark Day <neowalla@...> wrote:
Ever since I built a few pairs of Jules' hydrophones, I have been interested in new ways to make recordings with things other than traditional diaphragm microphones. I have been thinking about building a set of contact mics using Jules' circuit and a flat piezo disk. One of the things I want to record is a passing train.
Then I got to thinking...I also having been tinkering with electric guitar builds and I have a few cheap pickups from kit guitars where I replaced them with better ones. Rails are steel. Like guitar strings.
What about putting a pickup on each rail. Run them through direct boxes and into my Mixpre and record a passing train?
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But seriously, cool idea, I'm guessing you would not directly attach the pickup as you would with a piezo. I think the pickup needs a slight gap from the vibrating "steel".
I actually experimented using various guitar pickups as the transducer for my plate reverb project.
On Wednesday, October 30, 2024 at 09:42:30 PM EDT, JAMES B <guardtech@...> wrote:
On Wednesday, October 30, 2024 at 07:43:29 PM EDT, Mark Day <neowalla@...> wrote:
Ever since I built a few pairs of Jules' hydrophones, I have been interested in new ways to make recordings with things other than traditional diaphragm microphones. I have been thinking about building a set of contact mics using Jules' circuit and a flat piezo disk. One of the things I want to record is a passing train.
Then I got to thinking...I also having been tinkering with electric guitar builds and I have a few cheap pickups from kit guitars where I replaced them with better ones. Rails are steel. Like guitar strings.
What about putting a pickup on each rail. Run them through direct boxes and into my Mixpre and record a passing train?
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I would think that the steel rails aren't moving enough for that
to really work well (guitar strings move through the magnetic
field, causing the signal... I don't know what the displacement of
rails when they are making noise are but it can't be much, at
least in the audible frequency range; I'm sure they deflect
significantly when train goes over them) and I would expect a
contact mic to work better.
That said, rail companies certainly wouldn't look kindly upon
discovering some electronics wired up to their rails (at least in
the US/Canada.)
If using a contact mic, I would think you could attach it to a
sleeper or something driven into the grade a further distance away
and probably pick up a solid signal there, too, and possibly incur
a shorter jail sentence. :-) That said, there might be
weird/interesting sounds coming through the steel (including from
long before the train arrives.)
-c
On 10/30/24 18:50, JAMES B wrote:
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
But seriously, cool idea, I'm
guessing you would not directly attach the pickup as you would
with a piezo. I think the pickup needs a slight gap from the
vibrating "steel".
I actually experimented using
various guitar pickups as the transducer for my plate reverb
project.
On Wednesday, October 30, 2024 at 09:42:30 PM EDT, JAMES
B <guardtech@...> wrote:
On Wednesday, October 30, 2024 at 07:43:29 PM
EDT, Mark Day <neowalla@...> wrote:
Ever since I built a few pairs of Jules'
hydrophones, I have been interested in new
ways to make recordings with things other than
traditional diaphragm microphones. I have been
thinking about building a set of contact mics
using Jules' circuit and a flat piezo disk.
One of the things I want to record is a
passing train.
Then I got to thinking...I also having been
tinkering with electric guitar builds and I
have a few cheap pickups from kit guitars
where I replaced them with better ones. Rails
are steel. Like guitar strings.
What about putting a pickup on each rail.
Run them through direct boxes and into my
Mixpre and record a passing train?
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Good point about the rails not moving much through the magnetic field. I was actually planning on approaching the company who owns the spur line near our house and asking permission. My mentor in audio was a man named Jerry Frederick who in the late 1950's made several recordings for Audio Fidelity Records, an early adopter of the then new stereo format. He got access to a rail yard in Reading PA and hauled his Ampex 351 and a couple Neuman U47's out there and spent the day recording the vanishing steam locomotives.
I don't expect as warm a welcome as Jerry received, but I am a professional audio engineer, so who knows. I guess it's all in how I approach them.? Although I prefer the former, I could do it stealthily as well on this spur that sees one or two trains a day. The biggest problem would be hiding the mic cables, and myself in the woods, and.........waiting...
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Am 31.10.24 um 00:43 schrieb Mark Day via groups.io: I have been thinking about building a
set of contact mics using Jules' circuit and a flat piezo disk. One of
the things I want to record is a passing train. Don't. They have more than enough trouble already with people taking nude photographs of their girlfriends on the tracks. Railways and trains are inherently dangerous. Be safe and stay away. Ralf -- Ralf R. Radermacher - K?ln/Cologne, Germany Blog : Audio : Fotos :
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On Thu, Oct 31, 2024 at 10:02 PM, Mark Day wrote:
I was actually planning on approaching the company who owns the spur line near our house and asking permission.?
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Hi Mark
It depends on who you talk to. I hope it works out and you succeed! Maybe you should ask Gibson for a set of classic pickups as well. I'm not kidding. ;-)
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Your story reminds me of a night ride on a steam train in the black forest in Germany. The only one I took. One meter snow outside. All other trains had to stop that night until early morning because every railway company was afraid getting caught by the? "Year 2000 Bug". The steam train got a special permission to ride through the new years night. Two bands were playing on that train. There was food, good music, drinks and nice people. Somebody who really likes steam trains fulfilled his dream that night and got the permission. From 04:00 in the morning the party went on in a rock bar until dawn. What a great time we had! My friends and I really loved it! Some time ago...
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and liked the tunes. Not so spectacular.
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Hey, Mark.
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I got this same idea (contact mic + trains) but unpopulated PCBs still lay around and look at me accusingly.
The idea of guitar pickup seems great. As already mentioned above the rails may be to still for the pickup(s) but you could try to mount them on a thin piece of springy steel. If the rail doesn't move make the pickup vibrate.?
Affixing the contraption to the rail or the sleeper may be a kind of a challenge though. It shouldn't move, maintain small but constant distance from the rail etc.
The piezo you just stick in 2 seconds and you're set.
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If you want to go the stealthy route (without asking for permissions etc) , I got a hint for you: do not hide microphones, cables and yourself in the woods. Do it in the open wearing a HiViz jacket, jeans and workboots (or some similar to).
No one should bat an eye.
A guy in regular clothes standing by the rails may be suspicious but this same guy in a HiViz jacket is doing his job, probably measuring noise levels.
Best get a used one in a second-hand shop. One that shows some wear (not too much! Just a bit) and a bit stained here and there.?
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When I am recording city sounds, in regular clothes, there will always be a clown that thinks shouting something at the sight of the mics is so funny,? innovative and entertaining.
When I wear a HiViz jacket people just pass by.
Weird looks? I don't care.
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Hmmm... a guy named CASEY talking about trains ... yeah, that works !! :-)
What about a contact microphone like we used to use with telephone handsets? Or a past-on guitar or instrument pickup (although I suppose those are piezo units which is where you started from ) but some sort of acoustic instrument pickup that can be pasted to the instrument/tracks?
I sort of like the piezo idea - as they are ready made and suitable for contact pickup - but then, piezo pickup are not exactly accurate sound capturing.
Interesting question. James
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Le 31/10/2024 à 19:16, Richards a écrit?: Hmmm... a guy named CASEY talking about trains ... yeah, that works !! :-)
What about a contact microphone like we used to use with telephone handsets? These are not microphones. They are just inductivecoils that pick the radiated magnetism.
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Ha! Funny you should mention the hi-viz vest. I'll see your vest and raise you a hard hat. I used to work at an engine plant and had to go into construction zones regularly as part of the new model program. I used to joke how if you put on a hard hat, hi-viz vest, steel toe boots, and carry a clipboard, you could probably get into Area 51. Just kidding, but your suggestion is a valid one.
I think contact mics are the way to go. Another thing that would be interesting is putting contact mics on a steel rail bridge when a train goes over. You could be under the bridge on the ground well away from the moving train and I suspect the sound would travel right through the steel supports down to the ground. Might sound really cool.
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"I'll see your vest and raise you a hard hat."
And I'll wave you back, mate. ;)
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" I used to joke how if you put on a hard hat, hi-viz vest, steel toe boots, and carry a clipboard, you could probably get into Area 51."
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I'm in a mobile hydraulic hoses emergency service, up until March I used to go into construction sites (a.o.) as well. Since we do not have Area 51 here, in Poland, I use to say that HiViz jacket set makes you invisible."
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Funny you mention a raiway bridge. We have a steel one, here in Warsaw (wonderfully noisy), it's on my bucket list.
I only need to need to populate the PCB boards....
Akhem...
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So far I bought (from Ali) such, alernative to typical piezo elements, which may be of interest for you:?
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Or these:
Waterproof and easier to attach to surfaces than a typical piezo. Also doesn't require shielding.
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Also:
Self shielding as well.
Havent tried these yet how they work attached flat. Will try to buid a sort of a geophone - the piezo strip clamped at one end and wieghted at the other.
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?
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Nice options, but much lower output than a standard piezo disc. Cancsooundok however.
"I'll see your vest and raise you a hard hat."
And I'll wave you back, mate. ;)
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" I used to joke how if you put on a hard hat, hi-viz vest, steel toe boots, and carry a clipboard, you could probably get into Area 51."
?
I'm in a mobile hydraulic hoses emergency service, up until March I used to go into construction sites (a.o.) as well. Since we do not have Area 51 here, in Poland, I use to say that HiViz jacket set makes you invisible."
?
Funny you mention a raiway bridge. We have a steel one, here in Warsaw (wonderfully noisy), it's on my bucket list.
I only need to need to populate the PCB boards....
Akhem...
?
So far I bought (from Ali) such, alernative to typical piezo elements, which may be of interest for you:?
?
Or these:
Waterproof and easier to attach to surfaces than a typical piezo. Also doesn't require shielding.
?
Also:
Self shielding as well.
Havent tried these yet how they work attached flat. Will try to buid a sort of a geophone - the piezo strip clamped at one end and wieghted at the other.
?
?
?
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On Sat, Nov 2, 2024 at 10:14 PM, Johan Vandermaelen wrote:
Nice options, but much lower output than a standard piezo disc. Cancsooundok however.
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Can't complain. I just put together an circuit (in a BM800 body)? and connected one of?these:
Works like a charm. Quick test showed high signal on lowest setting in DR-70D, knob on "twelve o'clock". Plenty gain left to use.
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The piezo element unshielded, on a long (+/- 70 cm) cable. No noise whatsoever.
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Will try the flex one soon.
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"Quick test showed high signal on lowest setting in DR-70D, knob on "twelve o'clock". Plenty gain left to use."
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Hmmm.... Got me thinking that the signal might be too hot for a train...
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Mark Day