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How to implement SimpleP48 with PUI 5035 three-pin design?

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Hello everybody.
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I'm going to try for the first time to build a microphone with a PUIaudio AOM-5035 capsule + SimpleP48. The choice of this capsule is due to the fact that I need 135dB SPL of maximum sound pressure. My question is: since the capsule has three pins, is it enough to add a 48k resistance to the drain and maintain the manufacturer's recommendation? I attach the manufacturer's recommended drive circuit. The capacitor, could it be a 10uF 25v DC Aluminum Electrolytic?
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I thank you in advance for your contribution and wisdom.
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Gustavo
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Screenshot 2024-09-04 at 15.45.44.png

 

Am 04.09.24 um 17:17 schrieb gustavoafonsoalmeida via groups.io:
Hello everybody.
I'm going to try for the first time to build a microphone with a
PUIaudio AOM-5035 capsule + SimpleP48. The choice of this capsule is due
to the fact that I need 135dB SPL of maximum sound pressure.
If I may ask, what are you planning to pick up with it?

Ralf

--
Ralf R. Radermacher - K?ln/Cologne, Germany
Blog :
Audio :
Fotos :

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I am a sound engineer and I work mainly with orchestral recordings. My setup included Decca-Tree with Gefell M221 plus Schoeps and Neumann spots. The challenge now is to build a sound reinforcement setup inspired by Remic microphones. I have already successfully implemented the PUI DOM-3027 (8mm - 110dB max spl) + SimpleP48 on the strings and now I need a capsule that can be placed on the brass, that's why I bought AOM-5035 and POM-2739 to test.
 

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Look into Ricardo's folder and SimpleP48. doc.

At page Dec 2015, there is a mention of a very simple mod I suggested that allows to increase significantly the max spl.
This mod works only with 3-wire capsules (or separate FET).

Also in Stefano's folder, there is also "3 versions of the simple p48, where he presents the mesurements.

Le 04/09/2024 à 17:17, gustavoafonsoalmeida@... a écrit?:

?
Hello everybody.
?
I'm going to try for the first time to build a microphone with a PUIaudio AOM-5035 capsule + SimpleP48. The choice of this capsule is due to the fact that I need 135dB SPL of maximum sound pressure. My question is: since the capsule has three pins, is it enough to add a 48k resistance to the drain and maintain the manufacturer's recommendation? I attach the manufacturer's recommended drive circuit. The capacitor, could it be a 10uF 25v DC Aluminum Electrolytic?
?
I thank you in advance for your contribution and wisdom.
?
Gustavo
?
?
[email protected]
 

Thanks a lot Jerry. I hadn't looked at Stefano's "3 versions of the simplep48" doc yet. Comparing the circuit recommended by PUI and the circuit in Stefano's document it seems to me that the resistor Rs is in different places, or am I seeing it wrong?
 

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Yes it is different.
The "Recommended drive circuit" is suitable for connection to an unbalanced input with power. Simple P48 is recommended for balanced phantom powered inputs.

Le 04/09/2024 à 19:42, gustavoafonsoalmeida@... a écrit?:

Thanks a lot Jerry. I hadn't looked at Stefano's "3 versions of the simplep48" doc yet. Comparing the circuit recommended by PUI and the circuit in Stefano's document it seems to me that the resistor Rs is in different places, or am I seeing it wrong?
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Thank you very much for your help, I think I will be able to test this capsule. Since I don't know much about electronics, I would like to ask an innocent question: is it possible to change the SimpleP48 circuit so that the PUI AOM-5024 supports more than 110 dB SPL? Thanks.
 

"is it possible to change the SimpleP48 circuit so that the PUI AOM-5024 supports more than 110 dB SPL?" Sadly? no. I have tested this capsule, which I love BTW. It has a very high sensitivity. And at high SPL's the output get very high. it will start clipping the internal fet above 110dB.?

Jules

On Thu, Sep 5, 2024 at 5:08?AM gustavoafonsoalmeida via <gustavoafonsoalmeida=[email protected]> wrote:

Thank you very much for your help, I think I will be able to test this capsule. Since I don't know much about electronics, I would like to ask an innocent question: is it possible to change the SimpleP48 circuit so that the PUI AOM-5024 supports more than 110 dB SPL? Thanks.



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Best Regards,

Jules Ryckebusch

214 399 0931
 

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I can't answer that with absolute certainty, but the principle used (degenerating the FET's transconductance by adding a resistor in series with its source) works with any FET. Of course some experimentation is required.
There is a small noise penaly with it, but it shouldn't be a problem since you want to use it with loud sources.

I doubt the 110dBspl limitation is due to the capsule. It's generally teh FET, but by decreasing gain, it can operate at much higher spl.

Le 05/09/2024 à 12:08, gustavoafonsoalmeida@... a écrit?:

Thank you very much for your help, I think I will be able to test this capsule. Since I don't know much about electronics, I would like to ask an innocent question: is it possible to change the SimpleP48 circuit so that the PUI AOM-5024 supports more than 110 dB SPL? Thanks.
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Fantastic! I will test with various values ??for Rs. If successful I will present the results here.
Your contribution was very important to me.
 

Gustavo, you sparked my interest: may I ask where you bought the 5035? Thank you.
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Of course, I bought several PUI capsules from Mouser. I bought them from Portugal and they were super quick to deliver. I didn't pay shipping because the purchase was over �50.
 

?is it possible to change the SimpleP48 circuit so that the PUI AOM-5024 supports more than 110 dB SPL??
One option is Jerry's 'Marcel mod' in Fig4 and p10 of SimpleP48.pdf.
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Another is RENE’S CHARGE AMP (SimpleP48RCA) on p12.? This will be slightly quieter than the 'Marcel mod'.
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Both will give lower THD and much higher output before overload cos they introduce a lot of feedback and lower sensitivity at the same time.
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To give them the best chance of reaching 135dB spl cleanly, you should choose a resistor that gives just under 10V across the capsule.
 

Both methods require a 3 terminal capsule like PUI 5035
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First of all, I would like to thank the group for all the information they shared, as without it I would not have been successful. After some experimentation, I managed to get 9VDC from the capsule. To date, only subjective tests have been carried out, i.e. listening through headphones. The result is a microphone that can handle sound pressure levels of around 130 dB SPL peak and has an excellent signal-to-noise ratio for what is intended. The implementation was done without cable, i.e. capsule, components and XLR plug.
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My question now, since I need a microphone cable with at least 2 meters between the capsule and the XLR connector, is whether the Rs resistor (shunt between ground and source) should be placed next to the capsule and in this way I use the cable shield for extra protection (mic body/screen) soldered to pin 1, or if I also place the Rs resistor next to the XLR connector and in this way I lose this protection?
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Thanks a lot.
 

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I don't understand why you surmise that " if I also place the Rs resistor next to the XLR connector and in this way I lose this protection"

You may place the resistor any place you choose, and in any case the shield should be connected to pin 1.

Can you draw a schematic of both possibilities?

Le 15/09/2024 à 10:02, gustavoafonsoalmeida@... a écrit?:

First of all, I would like to thank the group for all the information they shared, as without it I would not have been successful. After some experimentation, I managed to get 9VDC from the capsule. To date, only subjective tests have been carried out, i.e. listening through headphones. The result is a microphone that can handle sound pressure levels of around 130 dB SPL peak and has an excellent signal-to-noise ratio for what is intended. The implementation was done without cable, i.e. capsule, components and XLR plug.
?
My question now, since I need a microphone cable with at least 2 meters between the capsule and the XLR connector, is whether the Rs resistor (shunt between ground and source) should be placed next to the capsule and in this way I use the cable shield for extra protection (mic body/screen) soldered to pin 1, or if I also place the Rs resistor next to the XLR connector and in this way I lose this protection?
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Thanks a lot.
[email protected]
 

Thanks for the troubleshooting.
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Here is the diagram with the two possibilities. In my opinion, perhaps wrongly, they are different.
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Diagrama AOM-5035.pdf
Diagrama AOM-5035.pdf

 

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Version 1 is definitely wrong, as nothing is really shielded.

Le 15/09/2024 à 13:21, gustavoafonsoalmeida@... a écrit?:

Thanks for the troubleshooting.
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Here is the diagram with the two possibilities. In my opinion, perhaps wrongly, they are different.
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All you really need to do is connect the Source to Ground and then it is "two wire" You get higher sensitivity and a lower Max SPL but I have never had an issue with that.

Jules

On Sun, Sep 15, 2024 at 6:21?AM gustavoafonsoalmeida via <gustavoafonsoalmeida=[email protected]> wrote:

Thanks for the troubleshooting.
?
Here is the diagram with the two possibilities. In my opinion, perhaps wrongly, they are different.
?



--
Best Regards,

Jules Ryckebusch

214 399 0931
[email protected]
 

So "Modded 3 wires" means you have to use a cable with three conductors plus shield?

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