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Suppressing RF noise - ambient mics into CODEC (on headphones)
Hi There folks!
I've been experiencing some RF interference on some PUI AOM 5035L mics into a WM8960 CODEC. Any advice on how to mitigate this would be much appreciated! Sorry for the long message, but here it goes... I like these mics for my application (loud drums) because of their really high AOP (135dB) and big SNR (75dB). For the most part, I've been pretty happy with . In my basement, and around my house, I experience superb sound quality with no RF interference. But at my favorite drum rehearsal spot (), I am experiencing RF noise. I will attach a recording I made of the sound, if your curious or might be able to help identify the kind and/or source. I've tried many things, including the following: 1) Turning off all bluetooth and I2S communications on my microcontroller. It is simply controlling the PGA gains on the mic inputs and passing that through the CODEC in the analog bypass paths. This is less likely to be the culprit, because in my basement I don't experience the RF interference (even with BT/I2S running). 2) Upgrading all audio and data cables to shieled (Mogami W2697). 3) Wrapping a GND wire around the small connection from CODEC to MIC (which includes it's required pull-down resistor and in-series cap mini-PCB). 4) Putting my entire "right ear" electronics inside a box that I covered with copper tape (two layers). FWW, this stops any RF noise introduced by when I hold my RC airplane transmitter nearby. But doesn't stop the drumbox RF noise. Which I'm guessing is a stronger RF signal (?). 5) Putting a separate CODEC in the left ear, in hopes that the shorter distance of the left mic and left CODEC would help. But still no luck. I later found out that the RF noise can also enter my right ear signal - depending on the rotational position of my head (while wearing the headphones). None of my efforts have seems to stop or reduce the RF interference into my system at the drumbox. The owner has let me know that they wirelessly beam their Wifi from the main building out to the rehearsal room (across the parking lot). So my guess is that this might be the cause. Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated and thanks in advance! Cheers, Pete PS there is much more info on , but these two diagrams show the bulk of the project: And here are my attempts at protecting with copper tapped box and wrapped GND wires: |
sounds like maybe cell phone close by?
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Ferrite beads.? Ferrite Clamshell EMI Filter? On Monday, January 22, 2024 at 10:22:33 PM EST, Jerry Lee Marcel <jerryleemarcel@...> wrote:
Le 23/01/2024 à 03:49, Pete Lewis a écrit?: I've been experiencing some RF interference on some PUI AOM 5035L micsYou don't say how they are connected to the CODEC. How are they powered, is there an active circuit? |
Hi Pete,
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Welcome to the group!? Looks like a very cool project. If I could make one suggestion with respect to using this group, it would be to take care not to send huge attachments out to the group.? We have plenty of file space for sharing such things. Thanks, -Scott On 1/22/24 20:49, Pete Lewis wrote:
Hi There folks! --
---- Scott Helmke ---- scott@... ---- (734) 604-9340 ---- "I have ceased distinguishing between the religious and the secular, for everything is holy" - Joe Henry |
Hi Jerry,
Thanks for responding! The mics signals are connected to the inverting inputs of the PGAs on each channel on the CODEC. Non-inverting inputs of PGAs are set to connect internally to VMID. They also have the necessary passives in-between the actual mic pads and the codec inputs. Power is coming from the output of a dedicated 3.3V LDO voltage regulator on the WM8960 breakout (AVDD pin), which in my setup is getting powered upstream by 3 AAA NiMH batteries at the VIN pin on the breakout. Thanks again! Pete |
开云体育Have you tried adding a capacitor between input and ground? Le 23/01/2024 à 04:55, Pete Lewis a
écrit?:
Here's a slightly better quality attachment of my mic wiring diagram. (sorry for the pixelation). |
Hi Pete,
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Yes, as a group member you can put files into a folder of your own and then link to it. Thanks, -Scott On 1/22/24 22:07, Pete Lewis wrote:
Hey Scott, --
---- Scott Helmke ---- scott@... ---- (734) 604-9340 ---- "I have ceased distinguishing between the religious and the secular, for everything is holy" - Joe Henry |
Hey Jerry,
Have you tried adding a capacitor between input and ground?Thanks for the suggestions. I have not yet tried either a cap to GND or a ferrite bead. I'm assuming the cap from signal to GND would be best placed as close as possible to the input pin on the CODEC. Is this correct? Also, the ferrite bead would be in series with the signal, also as close as possible to the input pin on the CODEC? Thanks! PS one other thing, I actually forgot to mention earlier that I put some filtering on the inputs of the?. It has a low-pass filtering at 33KHz, and so that includes some 47nF caps to GND already. Would you recommend trying additional caps to ground somewhere else on the circuit??[schematic highlight image link] |
开云体育When you say; “It has a low-pass filtering at 33KHz, and so that includes some 47nF caps to GND already.” I’m looking at the schematic as well, where do those 47nF caps tie to ground? Is there a Star ground setup? RF into low noise analog is a challenge ?especially with Cell and WiFi stuff in the gigahertz range. Evan a short wire becomes an antenna ?5Gig is about 6cm wavelength so 1/4wavelength antenna is less than an inch. ?Best Regards, Jules Ryckebusch? On Jan 22, 2024, at 22:56, Pete Lewis <petelewis228@...> wrote:
|
Hmm... I had a couple thoughts in the middle of the night.
(1) I'm wondering if my output could be causing the issue. The wires to my headphone driver speakers are currently just two wires without any shielding. (2) I'm using capless headphone mode on the WM8960, which utilized VMID as the source for a buffered GND for the headphones. VMID is also used as the non-inverting input on the PGA (my mic input gain stage), so maybe the speaker wires are acting like an antennae and it's making it's way into the OUT3 pin (the buffered VMID). As it is an output, I wasn't looking at the speaker wires (or mode) previously, but I'll give shielding the speaker cables a shot, and also I could try switching away from capless headphone mode and avoid any connection from the speaker wires to VMID. |
开云体育That is worth a shot ?for sure. RF and EMI are deceptive. Your headphones wires can easily act as antennas. ?Having one single ground point for everything helps. People normally think of ground loops happening with higher current draws but with RF a short wire has impedance properties, especially at Cell Phone and RF frequencies.?Best Regards, Jules Ryckebusch? On Jan 23, 2024, at 09:02, Pete Lewis <petelewis228@...> wrote:
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Half of LNprimer.pdf in my Files is dedicated to RFI/EMI suppression.
RFI is usually due to some internal circuitry demodulating the RF.? You need to get the yucky RF that is coming in to a low enough level so demodulation doesn't happen.? But even 1" of wire or track is enough to act as an aerial ... or even a 1" slot. The ideal is a Faraday cage (or box when we are considering UHF like cell phones).? Every line coming into or out of the box is shielded and the shields are connected DIRECTLY to the box on the OUTSIDE at RF.? This is the function of the "circumferential capacitor" on the?Neutrik EMC-XLR series connectors. |
Hey Folks,
Good news, Thanks to all your advice here, I was eventually able to eliminate all RF interference! Ultimately, it took properly shielding everything - as in 100% of all electronics, wiring, speaker drivers, battery... everything. Also, properly connecting my cable shields to the outside of the copper tape covered box (as recommended by Richard, thanks). The very last thing that wasn't shielded properly was the wire connections between the end of my speaker driver cable and the actual solder pads on the back of the speaker driver. I ultimately found this out because as I rotated in a circle, I noticed that only when my earcup was facing the main building, would I hear the RF interference. When I had it pointed away from the main building, then the noise would disappear. I think my head was acting as an RF shield! When I covered the ear cup with my hand, this also acted as an RF shield. Then I put a piece of copper tape covering it up and that also blocked the RF interference. But with the tape cover, it still would creep in at specific angles.? With this in mind, I then jumped into some cad work, 3d-printing, and more copper tape. If interested, I posted the high res version of these pics here: /g/MicBuilders/files/Pete%20Lewis%20Media/RF_troubleshooting_high_res_pics Cheers to clean audio and great sounding mics. Thanks again and hope you all are having a wonderful weekend! -Pete ps I'm still curious why the AOP would change due to the location of the mic drive-circuit pull-down resistor, but I intend to do some more experimenting and research to find that out soon. |
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