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Primo EM200 + simple P48
开云体育I’ll check. I have used the Simple P48 with the EM200 and, I contributed to the document to have it updated. ?Give me a day or so to find the value you need.?Best Regards, Jules Ryckebusch? On Nov 3, 2023, at 19:21, ROSS HALE <rossjhale@...> wrote:
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On Sat, Nov 4, 2023 at 12:21 AM, ROSS HALE wrote:
Hello, ?I think a word of caution that may be appropriate here? .......? Many electret capsules show? range of DC supply volatges from 3 to 10V. So selecting an initial value of P48 series resistor can be done without too much fear of casuing any damage.? Some Primo capsules (I'm thinking of the EM158 in particular) really don't like excess voltages applied. It will destroy them. (The newer? replacement EM258 version seems to be better specifieid in that respect.) The EM200 data sheet indicates a supply voltage of 5V is required. It doesn't include any 'range' of supply options on the data sheet, so it too may be sensitive to over voltage? If you're keen on using the P48, I would suggest veering on the side of caution and going high with your initial reisitor value. The data sheet is also rather unhelpful when it comes to current consumption. It shows 600uA 'Max'..... So if it actually draws less than that in practice, the voltage drop across your selected resistor may be less than you expect. It could be that the EM200 is less prone to over voltage than the EM158 I mentioned earlier, but it's not a cheap capsule, so I think I would err on the side of caution, if you want to use an unregulated DC circuit like the P48? |
开云体育I second that. I did destroy an em200 with over voltage. ?I went back and looked. ?My measurements were for using it in 3 terminal mode and that the leg resistors are 5.7K vs the 2.2K for most other capsules. ?I would start with 157K for simple P48. ?Best Regards, Jules Ryckebusch? On Nov 4, 2023, at 06:25, Arjay1949 <info@...> wrote:
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Thanks very much for the replies Jules and Arjay,
I am intending to join the source and drain to use the em200's as two wire capsules as described in Jules instructable for the Ambi Alice, I hope this is ok? After reading Arjay's comments I realised I have a pair of P48-PIP xlr adaptors, as made by Micbooster in the UK, these are regulated to 8v or less, and offer another possible route. Best regards, Ross |
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On Sat, Nov 4, 2023 at 05:23 PM, ROSS HALE wrote:
Thanks very much for the replies Jules and Arjay,I'm not familiar with the details of the 'Ambi Alice' mic you describe, but joining drain and source on an EM200? is not going to turn it into a 2 terminal capsule!? Primo's? '2 wire' version of the EM200? is the EM204 . It is the same capsule, but fitted with a 470R resistor berween source and ground internally (note that the terminal marked G is 'ground' and not 'gate' in this capsule) That resistor will change the sensitivity of the casule by some 10dB, but will also reduce the max SPL the capsule can handle. You can see the differences published in the respective data sheets, which you can find on the Micbooster site. With the EM200 you need to fit a resistor? externally to the back of the capsule between Source and Ground? to turn it into a 'two wire' capsule. As I say, Primo use a 470R resistor, but you may prefer to select another value to alter the senstivity to suit your needs? I use my own version of a PIP to XLR converter to power my electret mic fitted with a EM204 capsule. (Some details here:?) A simple single core screened lead is attached to the 'HOT' (drain) terminal, with the screen connected to 'gnd'? (See the EM204 data sheet). I terminate this cable with a a 3.5mm TRS jack,so the mic can also work connected directly to a PIP powered 3.5mm jack input as well, if required. This two wire connection is unbalanced of course, but the impedance is quite low, so unless you have a specific requirement for a very long lead (say more than 5 metres) it should work without any problems.? |
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On Sun, Nov 5, 2023 at 02:12 PM, keantoken wrote:
Do we know that the EM200 and EM204 are equivalent when a 470 ohm resistor is used on the EM200? The Jfets could be from different Ids grades, leading the EM200 to have a high or low bias current.This thread on Group DIY? shows how an EM204 could be turned into an EM200 :? Not normally a sensible mod. of course, but apparently there were some cheap EM204s going at the time? if you look at the 2 data sheets they are very similar, and I think it's reasonable to assume they have the same manufacturing 'root'?.....? Sadly of course both are now obselete, and have been replaced with the EM415N ..? Similar to the EM200/204 but with a steeper LF roll off, by the look of the data sheet graph. |
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the EM415N also has better HF extension, by the looks of it, and a couple pronounced high mid peaks On Sun, 5 Nov 2023 at 14:32, Arjay1949 <info@...> wrote: On Sun, Nov 5, 2023 at 02:12 PM, keantoken wrote: --
07889727365 02036861372 3 Swimmers Lane Haggerston London E2 8FR |
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Yes, it certainly looks to have a couple of hi mid peaks at around +4dB, which might make it sound a bit ''brighter' than the EM200/204.... Doesn't really look like an improvement!
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Presumably it's all about the improved RFI rejection, resulting from the extra internal caps now fitted? I have to say I've found the EM204? to be the best sounding electret capsule I've used to date..... On Sun, Nov 5, 2023 at 02:34 PM, jack wrote:
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开云体育Me too. I’m not happy they have discontinued the EM204. Maybe it wasn’t selling enough, or they might have a two wire replacement in the pipeline. I can correct for the bumps in response in my a-format to b-format encoder but the weaker low end is not ideal.?Better response above 15KHz tho, which is nice? On 5 Nov 2023, at 14:52, Arjay1949 <info@...> wrote:
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Hey Y'all I can verify that the EM200 totally works with connecting Ground To Source. Here is a little video snippet with it connected to my DJ Mic2 via the?Pocket 3. I just got that a couple days ago and really like it.? Sadly they have discontinued it. Primo has a "store" in McKinny texas about?15 miles from me. I need to drive over and see what is physically?there. Everytime I try and buy direct, they want me to buy a min quantity?or min multy hundred dollar amount. Jules On Sun, Nov 5, 2023 at 9:15?AM jack <jackreynolds100@...> wrote:
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Best Regards, Jules Ryckebusch 214 399 0931 |
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Of the Primo capsules I have, the jagged responses never showed up in my own measurements when I eliminated reflections from surrounding objects. From what I've seen Primo does not want to use "ideal" conditions to test their microphones, so you may find the EM415N has a smoother response than what is in the datasheet. After many hours of obsessively testing speakers and microphones, I can confidently say the response differences in the datasheets could be entirely due to how the test was done.
The EM200 and EM415N responses in the datasheets could easily be the same mic in different test jigs. The EM204 is more different from them than they are from each other. The extra capacitors cannot cause peaks in the audio range, that would require huge inductances. |
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I think most of us who have carried out more than one or two mic tests will have come to the conclusion that the graphs on published data sheet rarely mean very much.
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I think it is fair to say though that the EM200/204 capsules - and probably the EM415 - are among the best of any of the electret capsules currently available? On Mon, Nov 6, 2023 at 04:57 AM, keantoken wrote: Of the Primo capsules I have, the jagged responses never showed up in my own measurements when I eliminated reflections from surrounding objects. From what I've seen Primo does not want to use "ideal" conditions to test their microphones, so you may find the EM415N has a smoother response than what is in the datasheet. After many hours of obsessively testing speakers and microphones, I can confidently say the response differences in the datasheets could be entirely due to how the test was done. |
开云体育I would certainly agree, Arjay.If there are any other freely available cardioid electrets with a similar SNR, frequency response and distortion figures I would love to hear about them! People seem to get on well with the Transound capsules but for my purposes I need them to be as quiet as possible.? J On 6 Nov 2023, at 12:07, Arjay1949 <info@...> wrote:
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I am a big fan of the? and? They?are both very consistent. I am going to drive out to the McKinny office this week. This is their website?? Although google calls it a cell phone store...? On Mon, Nov 6, 2023 at 6:07?AM Arjay1949 <info@...> wrote: I think most of us who have carried out more than one or two mic tests will have come to the conclusion that the graphs on published data sheet rarely mean very much. --
Best Regards, Jules Ryckebusch 214 399 0931 |
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Regarding the Primo datasheets, I have it from someone at their US distribution arm first-hand that although they test and measure each capsule they manufacture, they do not release those measurements to customers because their small diaphragm electret capsules are so sensitive to heat that they expect some variance in frequency response before and after you solder them.
On another note, sorry to get side-tracked, but since Jules mentioned the JLI capsules, I'd be really curious if anyone has some measurements handy that they've made of the frequency response of any of those small diaphragm electret capsules from JLI. They only publish measurements up to 20kHz on their datasheets and I'd love to know just how high they can capture. I might just buy some to try out anyway, but any advice that saves me the time and money would be appreciated. |
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On Fri, Nov 3, 2023 at 05:21 PM, ROSS HALE wrote:
I have looked in the files section but can't find a recommendation for the resistor value and wonder if anyone suggest a value please?SimpleP48.pdf in my Files has a list of resistor values and the resulting Vds for various Primo capsules and 'P48' supplies. It is likely ALL Primo capsules use the same NEC FET so the same resistor(s) are appropriate .. as are the testing methods in that document After much oohing & aarhing over the optimum Vds, my present opinion is that 5V is better than 10V ... but anything within that range is good ... and don't be surprised if I change my mind :) If you do measure Vds with different resistors, do send me an email with your results so I can update the database. |
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Nick from micbooster.com here, just a couple of things regarding these capsules.
Operating voltages - these are specified as below. EM258? 1.5V - 10V EM200? 3V - 10V EM204? 3V -10V? Of course it is the internal FET which has to handle these voltages.? If you look at the sort of FET that might be used in an electret capsule they are often spec'd around 20 volts VDS. In Primo's data sheets, unless otherwise mentioned, the voltage referred to is a typical voltage, rather than a maximum or minimum. It is also one of the test conditions at which some of the other figures have been calculated. Not as as selling ploy but just for information, although the EM200 and EM204 are end of line, we do have quite a good stock of each type, in terms of DIY quantities. |
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Nick Roast:
Not as as selling ploy but just for information, although the EM200 and EM204 are end of line, we do have quite a good stock of each type, in terms of DIY quantities.I'm told that the EM258 is also out of production. Here's an except from an email from someone at Primo when I was asking about bulk orders last year: We have other models that perform similar, to recommend.? EM358 or EM419 are replacement options to consider.Though of course there may be enough of them still floating around for them to be available for DIY stuff for years to come. |
Zander
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