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Re: 26. February 2025 net control MITN.
Correction, 3976 kHz again 3976 kHz.?
On Wed, Feb 26, 2025 at 18:54 KD8ZCM - Michael Shirey via <Kd8zcm= [email protected]> wrote: Stations to check in for the Michigan traffic net for 26 February 2025. I¡¯m gonna open the net up on 3975 KHz.?
Sincerely,? Michael Shirey? ??
ARRL Official Relay Station?and NET.?Manager? for the?Great Lakes Emergency & Traffic Net.? GLETN starts on 3.952 KCz at 0000 UTC or 8:00 PM EST.
Assistant?Net?Manager?for MACS/MITN,??
St. Joseph County, Michigan Interim Emergency Coordinator? and?NET. Control - SKYWARN Spotter for NWS-IWX. ? 73'S KD8ZCM??
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26. February 2025 net control MITN.
Stations to check in for the Michigan traffic net for 26 February 2025. I¡¯m gonna open the net up on 3975 KHz.?
Sincerely,? Michael Shirey? ??
ARRL Official Relay Station?and NET.?Manager? for the?Great Lakes Emergency & Traffic Net.? GLETN starts on 3.952 KCz at 0000 UTC or 8:00 PM EST.
Assistant?Net?Manager?for MACS/MITN,??
St. Joseph County, Michigan Interim Emergency Coordinator? and?NET. Control - SKYWARN Spotter for NWS-IWX. ? 73'S KD8ZCM??
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WD8USA, your Florida vacation and you¡¯re not wanting to come home to the snow, was a topic of discussion yesterday at our Michigan section district 5 meeting. A few people also ask about the hashbrowns, and I had to explain it to All of them. So don¡¯t worry, I¡¯m going to Ohio this weekend to get me hashbrowns. I¡¯m not gonna ask you to bring me none.?
Have a safe trip home Joe .
On Wed, Feb 26, 2025 at 08:52, Joseph Bell via groups.io < wd8usa@...> wrote:
Lots of fun and sun Pete- I of course do not want to come back until late April but I see I am needed on the nets!?
75 today- Bright sun- A day of sun tanning is up! JB
Well, it's Monday. Joe's in the Bikini State, so no net. I looked here and zip. Then scrolled 3920 to 3960. Absolutely clear. Not a sound?
Then moved to 72325 and scrolled to 7260 and back to 7220. Chatter aplenty but no net.
I would have gone to 60/4, but for me reception is always weak,and XMIT I can't be heard.
KD8GYI?
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On Wed, Feb 26, 2025 at 9:54?AM Dave via <Davewilliamson457= [email protected]> wrote: 7225 is available? Hi Joe. Glad you're enjoying the warm days. It's warmed a bit here, but on the spring roller coaster ride.
Stay safe and see ya when ya get back. My best
Pete
Lots of fun and sun Pete- I of course do not want to come back until late April but I see I am needed on the nets!?
75 today- Bright sun- A day of sun tanning is up! JB
On Monday, February 24, 2025 at 10:27:47 AM EST, Pete Hardin via <hardinpc= [email protected]> wrote:
Well, it's Monday. Joe's in the Bikini State, so no net. I looked here and zip. Then scrolled 3920 to 3960. Absolutely clear. Not a sound? Then moved to 72325 and scrolled to 7260 and back to 7220. Chatter aplenty but no net. I would have gone to 60/4, but for me reception is always weak,and XMIT I can't be heard.
KD8GYI?
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Hi Joe. Glad you're enjoying the warm days. It's warmed a bit here, but on the spring roller coaster ride.
Stay safe and see ya when ya get back. My best
Pete
Lots of fun and sun Pete- I of course do not want to come back until late April but I see I am needed on the nets!?
75 today- Bright sun- A day of sun tanning is up! JB
On Monday, February 24, 2025 at 10:27:47 AM EST, Pete Hardin via <hardinpc= [email protected]> wrote:
Well, it's Monday. Joe's in the Bikini State, so no net. I looked here and zip. Then scrolled 3920 to 3960. Absolutely clear. Not a sound? Then moved to 72325 and scrolled to 7260 and back to 7220. Chatter aplenty but no net. I would have gone to 60/4, but for me reception is always weak,and XMIT I can't be heard.
KD8GYI?
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Hi Joe. Glad you're enjoying the warm days. It's warmed a bit here, but on the spring roller coaster ride.
Stay safe and see ya when ya get back. My best
Pete
Lots of fun and sun Pete- I of course do not want to come back until late April but I see I am needed on the nets!?
75 today- Bright sun- A day of sun tanning is up! JB
On Monday, February 24, 2025 at 10:27:47 AM EST, Pete Hardin via <hardinpc= [email protected]> wrote:
Well, it's Monday. Joe's in the Bikini State, so no net. I looked here and zip. Then scrolled 3920 to 3960. Absolutely clear. Not a sound? Then moved to 72325 and scrolled to 7260 and back to 7220. Chatter aplenty but no net. I would have gone to 60/4, but for me reception is always weak,and XMIT I can't be heard.
KD8GYI?
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Lots of fun and sun Pete- I of course do not want to come back until late April but I see I am needed on the nets!?
75 today- Bright sun- A day of sun tanning is up! JB
Well, it's Monday. Joe's in the Bikini State, so no net. I looked here and zip. Then scrolled 3920 to 3960. Absolutely clear. Not a sound? Then moved to 72325 and scrolled to 7260 and back to 7220. Chatter aplenty but no net. I would have gone to 60/4, but for me reception is always weak,and XMIT I can't be heard.
KD8GYI?
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Well said John- I'm am following this while in Florida- JB
I am looking at this situation through the eyes of the FCC and the Volunteer Monitoring Program..
If I were "them"- I would have a transceiver set to 3950 and one to 3952.? I would record the comments from below that the activity above are causing complete disruption of communications.? That can be easily verified listening on 3950 as the net opens on 3952.??
We could not argue that we do not know that we are causing harmful interference.
I don't like to even think about the consequences of enforcement actions.??
Seventy five meters has traditionally been a cesspool of bad behavior- I don't want to be on the wrong end of the clean up process.
I don't see why we are arguing about Part 95 issues here.. we signed the contract.
I genuinely care for the net and for each participant here- I do not wish to see us in a world of hurt..?
But most do not use the reflector- Perhaps a wider distribution of this to the general ham population is needed? If folks do not know where we are, no newbies come by - Hence we don't grow in numbers- And seasoned members drop off-
On Sunday, February 23, 2025 at 09:33:27 AM EST, ND8W <nd8w@...> wrote:
That's why we have a reflector at our disposal... Good for mass communications.? Not that we have many check-ins anymore, but if PGW is unwilling to cause willful interference and not check-in at all, then I think we need to be decisive about implementing a
solution.? We all have VFO's for a reason.? Let's use them to our advantage!
ND8W?
If we move too far from 3.952 LSB then most won't know where we moved to- Or bother looking- That is what killed off the GLETN many years ago-?
That change if permanent will need to have? a wide dispersal of that change-
Not knowing where we move to will be not a good thing if permanent - JB
On Saturday, February 22, 2025 at 09:35:59 AM EST, ND8W <nd8w@...> wrote:
Yes, I think we've created enemies only by virtue?of impeding on their bandwidth, given the longer conditions typical on 75 meters this time of year. If they are already conducting net operations before we get there... and it sounds like they are... than I
would like to see us move away from 3952. I have taken the net to 3960/3962/3965 in the recent past.? Even though there may be a troublemaker who wants to reserve that bandwidth as his own personal property (even though he's not actually using the frequency)
I've found it to be a significant improvement.?
ND8W
About a dozen or so nets I got on 3950 about 20 minutes before the net- here are my observations.
I have heard the raucous noise they complain about when you call the net- and they really are having an ongoing qso.? The splatter from above covers them up completely.
The general comments- "the idiots are back again.."??
When you call "is the frequency in use?" on 3952, all they hear is something that resembles a loud thunder.? No amount of filtering or i.f shift cleans it up. I've tried.? By the time somebody comes up to complain on 3952- you're half way through the net.?
I heard ZCM just fly off the handle and engage them then with obscenities.. when the guy had a LEGITIMATE complaint.
You say that you cannot hear them.? I can.? Very well.? Maybe I have a better antenna.. I don't know.??
In my opinion- we've made an enemy.? They will now engage you with your behavior.? Mark called up higher on the band to avoid this the other day- there was incessant tuning up when I tried to pass traffic.? I wonder where that was from..
I think that you have them so angry that they will chase you up and down the band to deliver paybacks.?
This kind of infighting among hams, obscenities, bad behavior.. is what kept me away from the microphone for a very long time.? I don't need this kind of drama.??
I think that it is too late to make peace with these guys- you have one of the callsigns- maybe it is worth a try?
If not, go ahead and fight it out among yourselves.? I cannot participate with the MACS net under current circumstances.? I'll just deliver DTN traffic myself if I have to.
KB8PGW
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Re: MACS/MITN Revised Preambles and Operating Procedures
?Mike , thank you very much for the update on what the plan is going forward and I will agree as well.?
?What I would like to do is to make a special request of, since net. controls are in charge of, and conducts the nets and an appropriate manner.?
?It would also be appropriate for stations, that wish to check in, and to get an idea what is going on?? To check the band or new designated frequency of 3.953 KCs themselves about five or 10 minutes before the net starts, and not to arrive at 7:00, 7:01 or 7:03. Reason I say this is because we have one or two stations that do come in on short time like what happened this past Sunday night.?
Also, in case we have to move the Net. It¡¯s nice to know that stations are at least standing by on a frequency and they can QSY when the net. control makes that request. Because the last thing I wanna do is leave some stations behind on another frequency ¡° Well, there was nobody there. There was no net¡± and because they were probably a station that got there a few minutes after the net started.?
Now I know there¡¯s a lot of people that doesn¡¯t believe in pre-nets. And that¡¯s fine but. With the way, the band has been acting the last few years, These solar/sun cycles that we¡¯ve been having. We need to adapt with the changes. Which means we can¡¯t fire the radio up start talking and be on our way. A little extra work.? That¡¯s all I¡¯m asking and lastly, I think each you ever one for the check-ins and the net controls that make it happen. Keep up the great work.?
On Tue, Feb 25, 2025 at 19:40 Mike and Laura Horn via <mikeandlaura83= [email protected]> wrote:
It's been an interesting few days since we started discussing the matter. Lots of comments but nothing providing any hope of counting on the use of 3952kHz. We will, therefore be making some changes: 3953 will now be considered the lower limit of where we might wind up (MITN). (7233 for MACS) Since activity seems to be pretty high around our traditionally preferred frequencies, NCS will have to be in shack hunting for a clear frequency. Since the clear frequency is likely not to be anywhere near 3952kHz, it will be necessary to announce the frequency on the reflector. Given the tendency of someone to pop up on a frequency that is clear from 15 to 5 minutes before net time, there doesn't seem to be much point in posting it much ahead of 5 minutes before the hour. Tonight's MITN was a good example of this. If possible, an announcement may be made on 3953 (7233), but don't count on it, This sounds like a lot of complication and jumping around but, until somebody comes up with clear title to the frequencies we're used to, that's the way it's going to have to be
Revised Preambles are attached.
73, Mike WB8TQZ
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MACS/MITN Revised Preambles and Operating Procedures
It's been an interesting few days since we started discussing the matter. Lots of comments but nothing providing any hope of counting on the use of 3952kHz. We will, therefore be making some changes: 3953 will now be considered the lower limit of where we might wind up (MITN). (7233 for MACS) Since activity seems to be pretty high around our traditionally preferred frequencies, NCS will have to be in shack hunting for a clear frequency. Since the clear frequency is likely not to be anywhere near 3952kHz, it will be necessary to announce the frequency on the reflector. Given the tendency of someone to pop up on a frequency that is clear from 15 to 5 minutes before net time, there doesn't seem to be much point in posting it much ahead of 5 minutes before the hour. Tonight's MITN was a good example of this. If possible, an announcement may be made on 3953 (7233), but don't count on it, This sounds like a lot of complication and jumping around but, until somebody comes up with clear title to the frequencies we're used to, that's the way it's going to have to be
Revised Preambles are attached.
73, Mike WB8TQZ
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Re: MITN Tue. 02-25 3.966
Now (2355Z) likely to be 3.975 WB8TQZ
On Tuesday, February 25th, 2025 at 6:48 PM, Mike and Laura Horn via groups.io <mikeandlaura83@...> wrote:
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...unless, of course, somebody else jumps on it. WB8TQZ
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K8ED took the net on 7233 a minute or two past ten. Passed me a piece of traffic for Columbus in St. Clair Co. Nobody else on freq. Never heard you Pete if you attempted to check in.
K8DLW
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I am looking at this situation through the eyes of the FCC and the Volunteer Monitoring Program..
If I were "them"- I would have a transceiver set to 3950 and one to 3952.? I would record the comments from below that the activity above are causing complete disruption of communications.? That can be easily verified listening on 3950 as the net opens on 3952.??
We could not argue that we do not know that we are causing harmful interference.
I don't like to even think about the consequences of enforcement actions.??
Seventy five meters has traditionally been a cesspool of bad behavior- I don't want to be on the wrong end of the clean up process.
I don't see why we are arguing about Part 95 issues here.. we signed the contract.
I genuinely care for the net and for each participant here- I do not wish to see us in a world of hurt..?
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
But most do not use the reflector- Perhaps a wider distribution of this to the general ham population is needed? If folks do not know where we are, no newbies come by - Hence we don't grow in numbers- And seasoned members drop off-
On Sunday, February 23, 2025 at 09:33:27 AM EST, ND8W <nd8w@...> wrote:
That's why we have a reflector at our disposal... Good for mass communications.? Not that we have many check-ins anymore, but if PGW is unwilling to cause willful interference and not check-in at all, then I think we need to be decisive about implementing a
solution.? We all have VFO's for a reason.? Let's use them to our advantage!
ND8W?
If we move too far from 3.952 LSB then most won't know where we moved to- Or bother looking- That is what killed off the GLETN many years ago-?
That change if permanent will need to have? a wide dispersal of that change-
Not knowing where we move to will be not a good thing if permanent - JB
On Saturday, February 22, 2025 at 09:35:59 AM EST, ND8W <nd8w@...> wrote:
Yes, I think we've created enemies only by virtue?of impeding on their bandwidth, given the longer conditions typical on 75 meters this time of year. If they are already conducting net operations before we get there... and it sounds like they are... than I
would like to see us move away from 3952. I have taken the net to 3960/3962/3965 in the recent past.? Even though there may be a troublemaker who wants to reserve that bandwidth as his own personal property (even though he's not actually using the frequency)
I've found it to be a significant improvement.?
ND8W
About a dozen or so nets I got on 3950 about 20 minutes before the net- here are my observations.
I have heard the raucous noise they complain about when you call the net- and they really are having an ongoing qso.? The splatter from above covers them up completely.
The general comments- "the idiots are back again.."??
When you call "is the frequency in use?" on 3952, all they hear is something that resembles a loud thunder.? No amount of filtering or i.f shift cleans it up. I've tried.? By the time somebody comes up to complain on 3952- you're half way through the net.?
I heard ZCM just fly off the handle and engage them then with obscenities.. when the guy had a LEGITIMATE complaint.
You say that you cannot hear them.? I can.? Very well.? Maybe I have a better antenna.. I don't know.??
In my opinion- we've made an enemy.? They will now engage you with your behavior.? Mark called up higher on the band to avoid this the other day- there was incessant tuning up when I tried to pass traffic.? I wonder where that was from..
I think that you have them so angry that they will chase you up and down the band to deliver paybacks.?
This kind of infighting among hams, obscenities, bad behavior.. is what kept me away from the microphone for a very long time.? I don't need this kind of drama.??
I think that it is too late to make peace with these guys- you have one of the callsigns- maybe it is worth a try?
If not, go ahead and fight it out among yourselves.? I cannot participate with the MACS net under current circumstances.? I'll just deliver DTN traffic myself if I have to.
KB8PGW
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Well, it's Monday. Joe's in the Bikini State, so no net. I looked here and zip. Then scrolled 3920 to 3960. Absolutely clear. Not a sound? Then moved to 72325 and scrolled to 7260 and back to 7220. Chatter aplenty but no net. I would have gone to 60/4, but for me reception is always weak,and XMIT I can't be heard.
KD8GYI?
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But most do not use the reflector- Perhaps a wider distribution of this to the general ham population is needed? If folks do not know where we are, no newbies come by - Hence we don't grow in numbers- And seasoned members drop off-
That's why we have a reflector at our disposal... Good for mass communications.? Not that we have many check-ins anymore, but if PGW is unwilling to cause willful interference and not check-in at all, then I think we need to be decisive about implementing a
solution.? We all have VFO's for a reason.? Let's use them to our advantage!
ND8W?
If we move too far from 3.952 LSB then most won't know where we moved to- Or bother looking- That is what killed off the GLETN many years ago-?
That change if permanent will need to have? a wide dispersal of that change-
Not knowing where we move to will be not a good thing if permanent - JB
On Saturday, February 22, 2025 at 09:35:59 AM EST, ND8W <nd8w@...> wrote:
Yes, I think we've created enemies only by virtue?of impeding on their bandwidth, given the longer conditions typical on 75 meters this time of year. If they are already conducting net operations before we get there... and it sounds like they are... than I
would like to see us move away from 3952. I have taken the net to 3960/3962/3965 in the recent past.? Even though there may be a troublemaker who wants to reserve that bandwidth as his own personal property (even though he's not actually using the frequency)
I've found it to be a significant improvement.?
ND8W
About a dozen or so nets I got on 3950 about 20 minutes before the net- here are my observations.
I have heard the raucous noise they complain about when you call the net- and they really are having an ongoing qso.? The splatter from above covers them up completely.
The general comments- "the idiots are back again.."??
When you call "is the frequency in use?" on 3952, all they hear is something that resembles a loud thunder.? No amount of filtering or i.f shift cleans it up. I've tried.? By the time somebody comes up to complain on 3952- you're half way through the net.?
I heard ZCM just fly off the handle and engage them then with obscenities.. when the guy had a LEGITIMATE complaint.
You say that you cannot hear them.? I can.? Very well.? Maybe I have a better antenna.. I don't know.??
In my opinion- we've made an enemy.? They will now engage you with your behavior.? Mark called up higher on the band to avoid this the other day- there was incessant tuning up when I tried to pass traffic.? I wonder where that was from..
I think that you have them so angry that they will chase you up and down the band to deliver paybacks.?
This kind of infighting among hams, obscenities, bad behavior.. is what kept me away from the microphone for a very long time.? I don't need this kind of drama.??
I think that it is too late to make peace with these guys- you have one of the callsigns- maybe it is worth a try?
If not, go ahead and fight it out among yourselves.? I cannot participate with the MACS net under current circumstances.? I'll just deliver DTN traffic myself if I have to.
KB8PGW
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I know in my case, continued bad regional communications has made me less likely to appear on the nets at all- And when I need extra time to? select a freq,monitor it and issue it on the reflector and then have only 2 or 3 show up doesn't help either-?
No easy answers just hard questions!
It is a shame we do not have an assignment on 6 MHZ- What a fantastic band for daytime! ?
I think 3950 +/- can work if the NC properly posts on the Reflector.
Too many times someone refuses to? post a move, then people have to guess where the net is.
I hope somehow all will smooth out.
KD8GYI
On Sun, Feb 23, 2025, 10:45 AM Mike and Laura Horn via <mikeandlaura83= [email protected]> wrote:
Well, it looks like the time change idea is a non-starter so let's forget that. I can, indeed, hear those guys, if they are transmitting. I have no trouble hearing the whiner when he comes up ib 3,952. So I guess that means I now have to start going to 3.950 and asking if THAT frequency is in use as well. I fully agree with the point that we all have VFO's. I've made it myself a number of times in the past. Mine hasn't froze up yet, either. I can make the moves, it's just a question of how many follow me. You can't make everybody happy and I'm about finished with trying.
Maybe this is a good time to get something else out there. I've thought that the NTS and traffic handling are worth preserving for quite a while now. I've done my best to do so. This is not, however, my only interest or activity. I have several others. I try to make most of the nets but making all of them will just never happen. It does make for a little extra effort in being on the air on time (usually early) but so far it hasn't been an insurmountable bother. Guess what? When I have to miss a net anymore it's actually starting to feel pretty good. I take that as a bad sign.
We may be chasing after something that cannot be caught Here are some other things that trouble me: Participation is down. Traffic is down. Outlets are really difficult to find. Liaisons are difficult to find. The same few people account for most of what is accomplished. We're having to deal with more obnoxious behavior everywhere People can't make the net on time. Maybe we have to spot them that if they make it at all (see above). Participants show up and don't even know for sure what traffic they have to list. We waste time getting that sorted out. Proper procedure is not followed even though it is readily available for reference and has been proven to be a help under difficult conditions. There are probably a few more but these make the top of the list. As Net Manager I guess I'm responsible for correcting this. I have tried but haven't gotten too far when I did. One thing that did not/does not help is poor conditions that make it quite an accomplishment to even call a net and move some traffic much less hold a tutorial.
I've had the MACS net since December of 2012 and MITN since January 2014. It may be that I'm reaching the limit of my shelf life. I'll let you know when it happens.
73, Mike WB8TQZ
On Saturday, February 22nd, 2025 at 9:12 AM, John Tallman via <kb8pgw= [email protected]> wrote:
About a dozen or so nets I got on 3950 about 20 minutes before the net- here are my observations.
I have heard the raucous noise they complain about when you call the net- and they really are having an ongoing qso.? The splatter from above covers them up completely.
The general comments- "the idiots are back again.."??
When you call "is the frequency in use?" on 3952, all they hear is something that resembles a loud thunder.? No amount of filtering or i.f shift cleans it up. I've tried.? By the time somebody comes up to complain on 3952- you're half way through the net.?
I heard ZCM just fly off the handle and engage them then with obscenities.. when the guy had a LEGITIMATE complaint.
You say that you cannot hear them.? I can.? Very well.? Maybe I have a better antenna.. I don't know.??
In my opinion- we've made an enemy.? They will now engage you with your behavior.? Mark called up higher on the band to avoid this the other day- there was incessant tuning up when I tried to pass traffic.? I wonder where that was from..
I think that you have them so angry that they will chase you up and down the band to deliver paybacks.?
This kind of infighting among hams, obscenities, bad behavior.. is what kept me away from the microphone for a very long time.? I don't need this kind of drama.??
I think that it is too late to make peace with these guys- you have one of the callsigns- maybe it is worth a try?
If not, go ahead and fight it out among yourselves.? I cannot participate with the MACS net under current circumstances.? I'll just deliver DTN traffic myself if I have to.
KB8PGW
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KD8ZCM - Michael Shirey
KD8ZCM backup account for Michael Shirey
Dave
ND8W