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Not on Colbert: " But this is how Colbert brought up the Hunter Biden scandal: ¡°You know that the people who want to make hay here in Washington are going to try to use your adult son as a cudgel against you. How do you feel about that and what do you have to say to those people?¡±
¡°I¡¯m not concerned about any accusations that have been made against him. It¡¯s used to get to me,¡± Biden responded. ¡°And he¡¯s a grown man. He is the smartest man I know, I mean, in pure intellectual capacity. And as long as he¡¯s good, we¡¯re good.¡±
Colbert kept on the topic ¡ª to try to make Biden look even more the victim.
¡°As a father, I understand that and I admire that. But in terms of your job as president, can you reach across the aisle to people who will be using this as an attack on you when it is such a personal attack because it¡¯s about family?¡±
¡°If it benefits the country, yes. I really mean it,¡± Biden said, to which the fawning Colbert responded, ¡°You¡¯re a better man than I. I¡¯m not sure if I could do that.¡±
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Your topic heading is an oxymoron .. like military intelligence,?
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On Dec 20, 2020, at 2:07 PM, jimntempe via groups.io <jimntempe@...> wrote:
Your topic heading is an oxymoron .. like military intelligence,?
I suppose so, for the most part, especially in recent years, but I imagine Marvin was using it tongue in cheek. ?
Of course, ideally, ¡°journalistic integrity¡± ²õ³ó´Ç³Ü±ô»å²Ô¡¯³Ù be a contradiction in terms, and for a rare and precious handful of journalists, it¡¯s not. ?Any nominations?
¡ª
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Yes, I can nominate four:? my dad, my mom, my son and, early in my career, myself!
?
I grew up in a newspaper household and eventually joined my parents in the family business.? My son is editor of a newspaper in South Carolina.? All of us would have been appalled had we let opinion creep into a new story.? We never would have run something as fact without checking it our ourselves.
?
Ethical journalists are not a rarity.? The vast majority of journalists practice integrity every day (or week, or month).? Unfortunately, many of the major media and too many of the minor ones give the rest a bad name.
Like all generalizations, the one quoted is false!
?
Dave Cahn
?
In a message dated 12/21/2020 12:51:01 AM Eastern Standard Time, dvdcsmth@... writes:
On Dec 20, 2020, at 2:07 PM, jimntempe via groups.io <jimntempe@...> wrote:
Your topic heading is an oxymoron .. like military intelligence,?
I suppose so, for the most part, especially in recent years, but I imagine Marvin was using it tongue in cheek. ?
?
Of course, ideally, ¡°journalistic integrity¡± ²õ³ó´Ç³Ü±ô»å²Ô¡¯³Ù be a contradiction in terms, and for a rare and precious handful of journalists, it¡¯s not. ?Any nominations?
?
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That's "news story".? Sorry, my keyboard sticks.
Dave Cahn
In a message dated 12/23/2020 8:28:55 PM Eastern Standard Time, davecahn@... writes:
?
Yes, I can nominate four:? my dad, my mom, my son and, early in my career, myself!
?
I grew up in a newspaper household and eventually joined my parents in the family business.? My son is editor of a newspaper in South Carolina.? All of us would have been appalled had we let opinion creep into a new story.? We never would have run something as fact without checking it our ourselves.
?
Ethical journalists are not a rarity.? The vast majority of journalists practice integrity every day (or week, or month).? Unfortunately, many of the major media and too many of the minor ones give the rest a bad name.
Like all generalizations, the one quoted is false!
?
Dave Cahn
?
In a message dated 12/21/2020 12:51:01 AM Eastern Standard Time, dvdcsmth@... writes:
On Dec 20, 2020, at 2:07 PM, jimntempe via groups.io <jimntempe@...> wrote:
Your topic heading is an oxymoron .. like military intelligence,?
I suppose so, for the most part, especially in recent years, but I imagine Marvin was using it tongue in cheek. ?
?
Of course, ideally, ¡°journalistic integrity¡± ²õ³ó´Ç³Ü±ô»å²Ô¡¯³Ù be a contradiction in terms, and for a rare and precious handful of journalists, it¡¯s not. ?Any nominations?
?
|
// ?Ethical journalists are not a rarity.? The vast majority of journalists practice integrity every day (or week, or month).? Unfortunately, many of the major media and too many of the minor ones give the rest a bad name. ?//
Thanks for that, Ed. ?Until very recently, the traditional image of a journalist in America was?of a crusader against dishonesty and corruption and crime, an honest and principled and courageous man (usually it was a man) standing against a dishonest and immoral and often dangerous establishment. ?That image has evaporated. ?Starting very noticeably towards the middle of the twentieth century, many American traditional ideals began to fall apart. ?People became openly cynical about the the image of the honest and courageous man. ?Historians a hundred or two hundred years from now will understand why that happened better than we do because we¡¯re still in the middle of it. ?It became glaringly visible about seventy years ago, but it¡¯s been progressively deepening ever since.
One obvious cause is television. ?Television cheapened and sensationalized journalism. ?Another is modern warfare - most conspicuously in the Second World War, the Korean war, and the Vietnam war - and all the moral contradictions it entails. ?Another has been the industrialization of the news business. ?Reporters and editors and even publishers had been recognizable local people. ?The buck stopped with human beings with faces and voices, human beings who had a significant impact on the work they did. ?It has since come to be widely understood that the modern journalist is nothing more a cog in a wheel, spinning at the sufferance and under the tight control of distant bosses whose ideal is a successful business. ?Another cause of the ongoing collapse of idealism in America is the democratization of higher education and the appropriation of colleges and universities as credentialing mechanisms for an upper class of workers increasingly alienated from the middle and lower classes. ?There are many more causes, but these four - the cheapening of ¡°the news¡± by television, an intense mechanization of warfare, the moving of journalism from the local and personal to the remote and impersonal, and a radical change in the function of colleges and universities - stand out for me.
So long as journalists are individual human beings writing their own copy, there will be some room for integrity; but so long as news outlets are largely profit-and-loss centers with little to no local responsibility, there will far less room for it than there was a hundred years ago.
¡ª
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On Dec 23, 2020, at 8:48 PM, DAVE CAHN via groups.io <davecahn@...> wrote:
?
That's "news story".? Sorry, my keyboard sticks.
Dave Cahn
In a message dated 12/23/2020 8:28:55 PM Eastern Standard Time, davecahn@... writes:
?
Yes, I can nominate four:? my dad, my mom, my son and, early in my career, myself!
?
I grew up in a newspaper household and eventually joined my parents in the family business.? My son is editor of a newspaper in South Carolina.? All of us would have been appalled had we let opinion creep into a new story.? We never would have run something as fact without checking it our ourselves.
?
Ethical journalists are not a rarity.? The vast majority of journalists practice integrity every day (or week, or month).? Unfortunately, many of the major media and too many of the minor ones give the rest a bad name.
Like all generalizations, the one quoted is false!
?
Dave Cahn
?
In a message dated 12/21/2020 12:51:01 AM Eastern Standard Time, dvdcsmth@... writes:
On Dec 20, 2020, at 2:07 PM, jimntempe via groups.io <jimntempe@...> wrote:
Your topic heading is an oxymoron .. like military intelligence,?
I suppose so, for the most part, especially in recent years, but I imagine Marvin was using it tongue in cheek. ?
?
Of course, ideally, ¡°journalistic integrity¡± ²õ³ó´Ç³Ü±ô»å²Ô¡¯³Ù be a contradiction in terms, and for a rare and precious handful of journalists, it¡¯s not. ?Any nominations?
?
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Actually, it was Dave Cahn who posted that.? I concur with him, though. None of my friends and relatives in journalism would write some of the things that we see snd hear on major news sources.? Editorials and news reporting should be separate.? However, this country and many others have long histories of newspapers publishing biased news reports.? Some egregious examples of bias were in small town newspapers in the old west. Ed
On Wednesday, December 23, 2020, David Smith < dvdcsmth@...> wrote:
// ?Ethical journalists are not a rarity.? The vast majority of journalists practice integrity every day (or week, or month).? Unfortunately, many of the major media and too many of the minor ones give the rest a bad name. ?//
Thanks for that, Ed.? Until very recently, the traditional image of a journalist in America was?of a crusader against dishonesty and corruption and crime, an honest and principled and courageous man (usually it was a man) standing against a dishonest and immoral and often dangerous establishment.? That image has evaporated.? Starting very noticeably towards the middle of the twentieth century, many American traditional ideals began to fall apart.? People became openly cynical about the the image of the honest and courageous man.? Historians a hundred or two hundred years from now will understand why that happened better than we do because we¡¯re still in the middle of it.? It became glaringly visible about seventy years ago, but it¡¯s been progressively deepening ever since.
One obvious cause is television.? Television cheapened and sensationalized journalism.? Another is modern warfare - most conspicuously in the Second World War, the Korean war, and the Vietnam war - and all the moral contradictions it entails.? Another has been the industrialization of the news business.? Reporters and editors and even publishers had been recognizable local people.? The buck stopped with human beings with faces and voices, human beings who had a significant impact on the work they did.? It has since come to be widely understood that the modern journalist is nothing more a cog in a wheel, spinning at the sufferance and under the tight control of distant bosses whose ideal is a successful business. ?Another cause of the ongoing collapse of idealism in America is the democratization of higher education and the appropriation of colleges and universities as credentialing mechanisms for an upper class of workers increasingly alienated from the middle and lower classes.? There are many more causes, but these four - the cheapening of ¡°the news¡± by television, an intense mechanization of warfare, the moving of journalism from the local and personal to the remote and impersonal, and a radical change in the function of colleges and universities - stand out for me.
So long as journalists are individual human beings writing their own copy, there will be some room for integrity; but so long as news outlets are largely profit-and-loss centers with little to no local responsibility, there will far less room for it than there was a hundred years ago.
¡ª
?
That's "news story".? Sorry, my keyboard sticks.
Dave Cahn
In a message dated 12/23/2020 8:28:55 PM Eastern Standard Time, davecahn= [email protected] writes:
?
Yes, I can nominate four:? my dad, my mom, my son and, early in my career, myself!
?
I grew up in a newspaper household and eventually joined my parents in the family business.? My son is editor of a newspaper in South Carolina.? All of us would have been appalled had we let opinion creep into a new story.? We never would have run something as fact without checking it our ourselves.
?
Ethical journalists are not a rarity.? The vast majority of journalists practice integrity every day (or week, or month).? Unfortunately, many of the major media and too many of the minor ones give the rest a bad name.
Like all generalizations, the one quoted is false!
?
Dave Cahn
?
In a message dated 12/21/2020 12:51:01 AM Eastern Standard Time, dvdcsmth@... writes:
Your topic heading is an oxymoron .. like military intelligence,?
I suppose so, for the most part, especially in recent years, but I imagine Marvin was using it tongue in cheek. ?
?
Of course, ideally, ¡°journalistic integrity¡± ²õ³ó´Ç³Ü±ô»å²Ô¡¯³Ù be a contradiction in terms, and for a rare and precious handful of journalists, it¡¯s not.? Any nominations?
?
|
Any more journalistic integrity is an oxymoron,.
Marvin
Actually, it was Dave Cahn who posted that.? I concur with him, though. None of my friends and relatives in journalism would write some of the things that we see snd hear on major news sources.? Editorials and news reporting should be separate.? However, this country and many others have long histories of newspapers publishing biased news reports.? Some egregious examples of bias were in small town newspapers in the old west. Ed
On Wednesday, December 23, 2020, David Smith < dvdcsmth@...> wrote:
// ?Ethical journalists are not a rarity.? The vast majority of journalists practice integrity every day (or week, or month).? Unfortunately, many of the major media and too many of the minor ones give the rest a bad name. ?//
Thanks for that, Ed.? Until very recently, the traditional image of a journalist in America was?of a crusader against dishonesty and corruption and crime, an honest and principled and courageous man (usually it was a man) standing against a dishonest and immoral and often dangerous establishment.? That image has evaporated.? Starting very noticeably towards the middle of the twentieth century, many American traditional ideals began to fall apart.? People became openly cynical about the the image of the honest and courageous man.? Historians a hundred or two hundred years from now will understand why that happened better than we do because we¡¯re still in the middle of it.? It became glaringly visible about seventy years ago, but it¡¯s been progressively deepening ever since.
One obvious cause is television.? Television cheapened and sensationalized journalism.? Another is modern warfare - most conspicuously in the Second World War, the Korean war, and the Vietnam war - and all the moral contradictions it entails.? Another has been the industrialization of the news business.? Reporters and editors and even publishers had been recognizable local people.? The buck stopped with human beings with faces and voices, human beings who had a significant impact on the work they did.? It has since come to be widely understood that the modern journalist is nothing more a cog in a wheel, spinning at the sufferance and under the tight control of distant bosses whose ideal is a successful business. ?Another cause of the ongoing collapse of idealism in America is the democratization of higher education and the appropriation of colleges and universities as credentialing mechanisms for an upper class of workers increasingly alienated from the middle and lower classes.? There are many more causes, but these four - the cheapening of ¡°the news¡± by television, an intense mechanization of warfare, the moving of journalism from the local and personal to the remote and impersonal, and a radical change in the function of colleges and universities - stand out for me.
So long as journalists are individual human beings writing their own copy, there will be some room for integrity; but so long as news outlets are largely profit-and-loss centers with little to no local responsibility, there will far less room for it than there was a hundred years ago.
¡ª
?
That's "news story".? Sorry, my keyboard sticks.
Dave Cahn
In a message dated 12/23/2020 8:28:55 PM Eastern Standard Time, davecahn= [email protected] writes:
?
Yes, I can nominate four:? my dad, my mom, my son and, early in my career, myself!
?
I grew up in a newspaper household and eventually joined my parents in the family business.? My son is editor of a newspaper in South Carolina.? All of us would have been appalled had we let opinion creep into a new story.? We never would have run something as fact without checking it our ourselves.
?
Ethical journalists are not a rarity.? The vast majority of journalists practice integrity every day (or week, or month).? Unfortunately, many of the major media and too many of the minor ones give the rest a bad name.
Like all generalizations, the one quoted is false!
?
Dave Cahn
?
In a message dated 12/21/2020 12:51:01 AM Eastern Standard Time, dvdcsmth@... writes:
Your topic heading is an oxymoron .. like military intelligence,?
I suppose so, for the most part, especially in recent years, but I imagine Marvin was using it tongue in cheek. ?
?
Of course, ideally, ¡°journalistic integrity¡± ²õ³ó´Ç³Ü±ô»å²Ô¡¯³Ù be a contradiction in terms, and for a rare and precious handful of journalists, it¡¯s not.? Any nominations?
?
|
Sadly I have to disagree with Dave, someone who AFAIK is a straight shooter.? Perhaps part of the issue is the meaning of the word ethical and perhaps even the meaning of the word journalist.? I don't doubt that most journalists think they are ethical and that under a liberal (classical sense of the word) view of the word *ethical* they are.? But that's largely because they are rarely self-aware, they are insular, etc and the result is that most of what they write is little more than confirmation bias.? Reporting half the facts isn't journalism.? Below is an example from the NYTs...
Typical NYTs fake/biased news headline (below bottom).? The neutral headline would have been
?
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Or if you wanted a fake headline in the other direction...
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DEMOCRATS rejected a REPUBLICAN effort to meet President Trump¡¯s demands for $2,000 payments.
Sent:?Thursday, December 24, 2020, 07:59:53 AM MST
Subject:?Breaking News: The fate of the stimulus deal remains in limbo after Republicans rejected a Democratic effort to meet President Trump¡¯s demands for $2,000 payments.
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BREAKING NEWS
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Thursday, December 24, 2020 9:52 AM EST
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Seizing on Mr. Trump¡¯s implicit threat to reject a $900 billion stimulus compromise, Democrats attempted to call his bluff with legislation to send Americans $2,000 checks. Republicans rejected the move and tried to counter with a motion to force their own changes to foreign policy spending.
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| You received this email because you signed up for NYTimes.com¡¯s Breaking News Alerts.To stop receiving these emails,??or?. |
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| The New York Times Company, 620 Eighth Avenue, New York, NY 10018 |
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Jim wrote:
// Perhaps part of the issue is the meaning of the word ethical and perhaps even the meaning of the word journalist. //
Absolutely. Semantics is a tangled thicket.
?
// I don't doubt that most journalists think they are ethical and that under a liberal (classical sense of the word) view of the word *ethical* they are. But that's largely because they are rarely self-aware, they are insular, etc and the result is that most of what they write is little more than confirmation bias. Reporting half the facts isn't journalism. //
I agree. Humans have, I¡¯ve found, a great capacity for self-deception. En masse, it seems, they are strongly inclined to believe and little inclined to question their beliefs. Individuals are often, perhaps usually, good people, but put them into a crowd, and their moral level is likely to sink to a low common denominator.
¡ª
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On Dec 24, 2020, at 2:06 PM, jimntempe via groups.io <jimntempe@...> wrote:
Perhaps part of the issue is the meaning of the word ethical and perhaps even the meaning of the word journalist. I don't doubt that most journalists think they are ethical and that under a liberal (classical sense of the word) view of the word *ethical* they are. But that's largely because they are rarely self-aware, they are insular, etc and the result is that most of what they write is little more than confirmation bias. Reporting half the facts isn't journalism.
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David Smith
DAVE CAHN
