Stall and Control box
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Hi Alex, That's a good puzzle.? No clear answer, so I'll suggest some ideas to try. The stall to me means the optical decoder didn't move, or it's sensor didn't detect it move, when the Gemini sent power to the motor. It seems like a cable connection is making poor contact.? So when you changed Gemini units, perhaps the cable made a better connection.?? So: Is it the one faulty Gemini?? If you put the "faulty" gemini on a different mount, does it say "Stalled" on that mount too?? If so, points to a weakness in the faulty Gemini, perhaps a bad cable connector socket.?? I am thinking the clues also point to a likely bad cable or cable connector.?? I suggest: use the faulty Gemini on the mount that reports a Stall.?? Determine which motor is reported as Stalled.? Either RA or DEC. Then swap the RA and DEC cables.? Of course the RA is too short for full use, but it's probably long enough to try for this "startup stall" problem evaluation. If the problem persists with the same motor, then it might be a bad connection at the motor.? Try reversing the ends of the cable, and look at the cable pins for corrosion.?? If the problem moves with the cables, it points to a bad cable.?? If the problem goes away.... hope it stays solved.?? Best of luck, Michael On Tue, Jul 14, 2020, 10:45 AM alexmcconahay <alexmcconahay@...> wrote: On startup, either cold or warm, my GM8 Gemini 1 has a motor stall.? |
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Alex,
I will say I hate to be an a--hole but we see these issues many times a month.?Stop swapping controllers and hand controllers.? First verify battery voltage is 3V minimum to eliminate any issues here, if it is not you cannot know with authority that the battery is not part of the problem buy several to have on hand for when the Gemini sees to be strange but you can't figure it out, 99% of the time it is the battery and or a factory reset resolves these issues due to data corruption or incorrectly entered time/data/GPS coordinates, wrong format etc. once you have eliminated the other potential issues. Stick with the Gemini that is "bad" and do all your testing with known parts, sounds stupid but mark them so you can ID them reliably. Next eliminate cables contacts and sockets, they are cheap and unreliable, get some contact cleaner and spray the Gemini contacts and push the DIN cables in and out several times to clean the contacts. Do the same on the servo side, clean, blow dry retest. If the SAME issue is present then while the error is visible gently jiggly the cables on the Gemini and see if the behavior stops or changes. If it does swap cables and test again, does the issue stay on the same axis or does it move with the cable? If it stays on the same axis even with different cables swap the RA and DEC servo motors. Reboot and retest, does the problem stay with the same servo motor when swapping cables? If yes you need a servo motor. If no then you have a bad Gemini 1 controller, send it to get repaired. The idea is to isolate the problem and by rotating in other parts of an unknown condition you are making the debugging issues much bigger and more mysterious than necessary. Never swap parts until you can identity a potential bad part with the least number of parts, keep the data set as small as possible. This is basic trouble shooting, there is only one Gemini 1 controller, 1 hand controller, 3 cables and 2 servos. If this seems confusing write down the position of the parts tested and make jiggling a part of each testing step to try to see if there are multiple failure modes here. Only then once you have determined a repeatable failure do you swap in the other [arts to see if it resolves the issues and because we don't know if the other system is 100% good you may still have difficulty isolating the bad component(s).? ? -- Chip Louie - Chief Daydreamer Imagination Hardware |
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Great report...when you told the group, the problem was cured. There is the joke about going to the Dr office and ... everyone knows that one.? Perhaps all your plugging and unplugging cleaned some slight oxidation off the optical encoder connections...so the gemini is better able to sense that the motor really was turning not really Stalled.?? Anyway... Glad your problems went away magically!? Now send us some pretty pictures! Michael On Fri, Jul 17, 2020, 8:19 AM alexmcconahay <alexmcconahay@...> wrote:
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I know... the mounts and electronics?cannot take the medicines we all take to stay healthy (I hope). Nothing lasts forever and this is why soldered connections are used, not plug ins.? It's interesting that the Gemini1 design had 2 pins for?+DC power in, and 2 pins for Ground too.? So if one pin got corroded... the other would not fail.? But of course, other things fail! Cannot afford double redundancy for everything.? My understanding is that space level stuff uses 3X redundancy, but management always wants to cut back on the extra weight.? Still... I would not want to take a trip to Mars...certainly could never return.? And getting to another star... best left to SciFi books and movies.? Man does not know how to make anything to last electronics-wise, that long!?? Hey here's a few recent Jupiter images, thanks to all the training I got from Andy Fischer.? More improvements are possible once I learn Winjupos.? I can't thank Andy enough for getting me out of the image processing woods.?? Best,? Michael On Fri, Jul 17, 2020 at 9:07 AM Chip Louie <chiplouie@...> wrote: Michael, --
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Hi Bob, Actually, I used no Barlow at all that night.? It was shot at f11 with the C14edgeHD. That scope, actually all EdgeHD scopes, have a distinct recommended focal distance. In that C14HD it is 5.75 inches back of the rear lens element, which is located in the back of the rear flange. Bottom line: not much room to work with to get in adaptors, barlows, and no room for a flip mirror.? I did use a ZWO atmospheric dispersion correction lens system.? That's another thing Andy strongly believes helps a lot.? I always before had used the RGB alignment in Registax.? But this gadget corrects the wavelength problem at all wavelengths.?? As I discover more to the image processing puzzle I'll write up a procedure.? The planetary imaging work is very infectious...but not as hazardous as Covid!? It's like Deep Sky but...shorter exposures! All the best, Michael On Fri, Jul 17, 2020, 11:34 AM Robert Runyan <runrob@...> wrote:
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Hi! Briefly the settings for planetary image capture and equipment I used, are: Capture software: FireCapture (2.5 version latest I think). There are several key hidden settings in here. A list: 1. Enable these gadgets: ? ? ADC tool: this looks like 3 round balloons R, G, B in a triangle. This gadget will show you how far apart are the center of gravity of your target or star separated I to Red Green and blue, and you use this critical gadget to adjust the ADC optical corrector (see below). If seeing is terrible the 3 dots jump all over the place, but in pretty good seeing you can see how to adjust the ADC levers.? You must have auto DeBayer but Save as RAW checked off to use the ADC tool (see next section) 2. Set these capture settings: ? ? ?High Speed ! ? ? ?RAM reserved ~ 2000 Mb ! ? ? ?Winjupos file info ? ? ?SER file type output (not AVI default...!) ? ? ?Automatic DeBayer but Save in RAW! ? ? Autoguider ? ? AutoAlign ? ? Reticle (process a crosshairs target to center the object in the camera field. ? ?? 3. Exposure duration:.? ? ? ? ?Set for 180 seconds.? On my highest speed this gives files that are each 14 Gb.? Like 44,500 frames about 640 x 480.? So have plenty of HD space available! 4. Autoguider.? Fire capture can autoguide if your Gemini is connected through Ascom Gemini.net.? Try and get that to work.? You may have to use the checkboxes for reverse RA or reverse DEC.? Play with it to see what works.?? Camera: ZWI ASI224 MC cost today: about $249 from Agena Astro (also add on eBay). Key is that it is USB3.0 and you must use a USB3.0 input laptop port. Look for the blue colored center plastic tab to identify the USB3 (blue) from USB2 (black).? I use a Plugable (nutty spelling but that's the brand) USB3 7port hub at the mount to plug in my ASI camera, USB to serial port for the Gemini1 RS232 port.?? You should rotate the camera (not the ADC) so the equatorial bands on Jupiter, and rings on Saturn, are horizontal. ( At least...that's what I was told by others...) I inspect the camera sensor and the cover glass for dust/fibers etc. If I see anything with a big (head type) binocular magnifier, then of take the camera from off and clean the image sensor and/or the cover glass with a microfiber and (solution of 15% alcohol/85% DI water/ drop of clear dishwasher soap) optics cleaning solution.? Also look at the camera image to look for severe dust circles or black dirt, and clean as you feel necessary. The "ADC" atmospheric dispersion corrector: ZWO makes it.? Not sure of present cost but I think about $250?? ?This is a tricky item to figure out.? Andy told me the secrets to using it which are: 1. To start, place both long silver adjustment levers at the same location angle next to each other, at the symmetric slots position (sounds cryptic but when you see the unit it will make sense) 2. Loosen and rotate the ring that holds the level bubble so the white lockdown thumbscrew is where the long levers are.? This put the levers on the right at 3 o'clock, and the bubble at 12 o'clock on top. 3. Wherever you point to the target, try to keep the bubble at the top in balance. Obviously this changes slowly as the object tracks across the sky. 4. Point your scope to a pretty bright star about the same height elevation as the imaging target (Jupiter, Saturn).?? 5. Bring the target star into focus in Fire capture. 6. Use the ADC tool to show the R, G,? and B circles are separated.? Move the levers,preferably equal movement in opposite equal directions from 3 o'clock position, until the 3 color dots coincide as best as possible.? Now stop and use it... Andy suggests that I need a UVIR 1.25 inch filter to keep out long wavelength IR that can swamp the imager and reduce contrast.? I have to buy one of those... Andy suggests that a 2X or 2.5 X barlow or better Tekevue Powermate can improve my results.? I think most people say about f20 to 30 is a good time of thumb, but on that subject I am not sure.? I got those images at f11 on the C14 which has FL = 3950 mm with no barlow.? I'm using a G11 mount.? I reported earlier that is really loaded to about 120 lbs total weight (scope and counterweights). (My collapsible but heavy duty Losmandy 3 inch tripod legs nearly collapsed due to that amount if weight...I had to really tighten the leg clamps ..) Telescope optics: Here was a surprise to me.? I was aligning the primary mirror on a convenient star, maybe Vega at just after sunset.? That was near zenith East of meridian.? Jupiter rising lower in the South East.? Magnify the image on the video camera center and blow up to see the slightly defocussed? Airy disk. Then adjust the secondary mirror 3 front thumbscrews or allen head screws til centered.?? Then when that was done, I'd move to my target, like Jupiter, and shoot.? And: voila! Blurry images!!!! The key is to use a star nearly the same height elevation as the target (Jupiter) and do the Airy disk adjustment there...at that scope position.? Then there is no mirror flop and you get sharp images. { If you have a refractor ...you are spared that secondary mirror adjustment.? But some big refractors have a 3 bolt front cell alignment!? So even they might need a slight adjustment.? I won't go into that...you can do it with a? Cheshire eyepiece on my 6 inch Meade AR6 doublet, but I can't get any reflections on my 5 inch EON triplet).? } Then...hopefully you set your target name as Jupiter and press the Record button and watch the planet autoguided, recorded in RAW, and your hard drive fill up with...high hopes. Then it's off to Autostakkert3.? Settings are Noise robust: 5 Laplace checked Normalize checked Background checked Put a few big alignment boxes at places on the image where contrast changes dramatically: edges, spots, ring divisions. Then press Analyze. When that is done look at the image window... Put on alignment squares perhaps a few hundred.? I hand add one or two at the moon dots on Jupiter if visible.? I tried Drizzle 1.5x but not very good results.? I used an amazingly high fraction of frames like 50%, of 44,000 frames.?? Check off Sharpen with 0% blended RAW.?? Check off RGB align. Run the stacking and wait til it finishes. Note that at this point my images look blurry and colors are messed up badly and I think the output from AS3 is all just blurry garbage.? Now comes the magic trick called Registax6 Wavelets.?? At this point you have a somewhat blurry discolored TIF 16 bit color image from AS3.? Now boot up Registax6 and drop in or Open up your TIF output file from AS3 (not the sharpened one...the blurry one!)? Choose wavelet type:. Linear Default (not Gaussian, not Dyadic).? There are other options you may wish to try. ( If you do use Gaussian wavlets keep the DeMouse setting about the same as the Sharpen setting. If you make the DeNoise setting like 2X the Sharpen setting you can end up just blurring the image... but...you try it and see what you get!) Slide the top level 1 slider all the way to the right with setting to 0.1. Slide the next slider set to 0.2 to halfway to the right. Next one set to 0.3 set to 25% to the right. ...etc... Season to taste on the sliders.? Less super-sharpness may be more appealing than oversharp,? but this is artwork... On the right side panel see "Color Balance" try pressing Auto a few times to see if coloration improves. Those sliders are very very sensitive.?? There are other adjustments galore, bit those are my basic ones. Then DO ALL button then Save and save as 16 not TIF and maybe 8 bit JPG.?? Take the TIF into Photoshop and try this: Image Size ...increase by 200% to 2x in X and Y.? Use BiCubic Smooth best for enlargements.? Then try more sharpening color adjustments, contrast, etc etc. Now ... You are on your own! There is a very important improvement software package called "WinJupOs" that can "decorate" the images. This gets important for imaging Jupiter because it is rotating so fast...over 180 seconds it's surface really has moved noticeably.? I don't have that yet under my belt.?? The key is to have fun and enjoy yourself. It's a learning journey (Did I say I wasn't going to write all this?!! ) All the best, and stay well! Michael On Fri, Jul 17, 2020, 4:44 PM Astronut <hg2u@...> wrote: Hi Michael,? |
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I apologize for the humorous silly typos in the Procedure that I just sent.? It is my fault.?? I did not mean to be confusing.? I have a very humorous Android. It thinks it can spell.? It knows that I don't always proofread my long emails.... The WinJupos program de-rotates the image frames in some magical mathematical way.? I can think of how to do it in my mind, but this is already perfected.? But his to use the program...Andy knows! Stay well, all... Michael On Fri, Jul 17, 2020, 5:58 PM Michael Herman via <mherman346=[email protected]> wrote:
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Michael Herman
Chip Louie