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rehab a G11


 

hello Bob Hancey, I am a member of the Sac Valley astro soc. we have a G11 mount (older mount) I am in the start of a rehab project for this mount. My greatest concern is that lubricants on the interior of the mount are no longer qualify as lubricants as the scope sat unused for at least 3 yrs. Will attempt to use soon, but do not have a lot of hope movement from the mount. I will contact Losmandy to see if they do rehabs on their mounts and cost to do so. I do not have the skill set to do a breakdown and rehab (I am a retired ICU RN---not much crossover skills for this project). IF my attempt to have Losmandy to do a rehab is a negative, NEXT best hope is to find a person/business that can do rehab (some funds are available), with a location in central/northern Calif and southern Oregon that the mount can be delivered to. SO, if there is anybody within the Losmandy group has a name of person/business that could be of value in terms of getting this mount back into a reasonable/functioning shape for members/visitors can use, any input would be appreciated, respectfully submitted Bob H.


 

I don't know that good lubricants would deteriorate appreciably in 3 years.? Does the mount work?


 

Bob

your the perfect person don¡¯t discredit your skills, attention to detail and analytical skills.?


there are plenty of dissemblely guides ?on the net and attention to order of washers. ?Take photos when taking it apart use this site as a guide



Losmandy sell lubricant kits etc. there are many guides on how to adjust your worm and blocks. ?Many have written them but I like Michael Herman¡¯s guides.?


Maybe look to replace the clutch pads they may clean up ok. ?Be careful of some solvents on the anodising surfaces. ? ?Disassemble clean re-assemble?

Might need new worm bearings or such like ruland coupling. ? Check when taking apart so you can order replacements. There are databases of nuts bolts bearings etc you can use in the files section.?

Remember you cannot wreck it. ?


Maybe try run it prior to dissemble and test PE so you have a base line when put back together to see if something is not right.?


You will learn as you go, best way to do it

cheers

bren




--
Brendan


 

Losmandy will do that for you, surely, but maybe they are too busy to do it promptly. Basic maintenance is well covered in their videos (cleaning and re-greasing). Worm adjusting is more intimidating though, but may be you don't need that.??

Best of luck,
Daniel


 

Bob,?

This depends on the total age of the scope, not just idle time. Sitting for 3 years might make the lubes drip through a bit, especially with higher temps. So we know the mount is 3 years + at this point.

If only that old, you can do the basic clean up and relube as in the videos, plus replace or clean the clutch discs which may be worn or oily. If the scope is 5 years plus, you may want to do a full teardown, degrease and relube, but also replace some moving parts like the Oldham couplings, gearboxes and the worm bearings. The thrust bearings and washers should also be inspected at this time as well.

The greases do move away from the gear surfaces with use, and also trap in dust and metal fines from the gears wearing. But make sure to replace with quality lubes like the Jet-Lube MP-50 on the worm and rings, and Jet-Lube Artic or other surfaces (which are the original Losmandy lubes). But I would recommend Mobilgrease 28 over the Artic, as this aircraft-rated grease has very good anti-wear properties.

Wish I could help but I am over 3000 miles away. As mentioned, resetting the worm to ring tension takes some time and patience, if you don't have a Losmandy knowledgeable helper close by.

Regards,

John
___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Losmandy G11G2 on pier; SkyShed design roll-off observatory; ZWO ASI2600MM-P; ZWO ASI071MC; Sky-Watcher Esprit 100 ED; Celestron C925 Edge HD with 0.7XFR, William Optics Zenithstar 61 APO; PHD2, Sequence Generator Pro and PixInsight user


 

Hopefully you have good hand eye coordination??As mechanical things go a G11 is pretty damn simple. We aren't workin' with watches here.

Three years isn't a long time in the life of a G11, OTOH, 30 without service is. There are folks in your club who will be glad to help you get started and experienced hands here to provide advice if you get stuck.


Virus-free.


 

Bob Hancey here, have received some posting for rehab work. May well be the path to repair, but working for success at this point, but the mount may require more than my skills i.e., professional/ divine intervention. Respectfully submitted


 

Hi Bob,?

The teardown, cleaning, and re-lubrication is easy to do.? You'd need a few common chemicals (maybe degreaser from local auto parts store).? Anyways, its easy to do.? The needle bearings have tiny like 1/8th inch diameter rollers, and these need to be easily rolling.? Old grease tends to "gum" the rollers with a coating of "varnish" and this is where the automotive degreaser chemicals can dissolve those varnishes.? The harsh chemical "Berryman B12 Chemtool" is one such powerful degreaser.? To use that, you must work outdoors for fresh air, and wear heavy rubber chemical gloves, and use metal pails (this chemical will dissolve?plastic too).??

To clean the needle bearings, you'd unscrew the clutch knob (start with DEC axis on the top), and remove the parts.? Note the order they are assembled, or else look at Mark Crossley's website:? ? for his recommendation for parts order.? That works better for most owners and for me.??

Start by removing the DEC axis dovetail from the mount.

After you lift out the DEC axis 1.25 inch shaft, you will see the needle bearings... upper and lower.? Try rolling the needles with your finger if you can reach in.? If those feel hard to roll, you'd put a rag into the bottom of the axis, put a pail below the end of the axis, and pour in some of that Chemtool B12 and let the chemical do its job.? The rollers will come free.? Then after all is dry again, re-lube.? Many people suggest using Superlube with "syncolon" but that is really teflon.? Or I use lithium based spray grease by CRC that you get at the auto? store.? Any of these will work just fine to keep those needle bearings rolling smoothly.

This is a good time to also clean the plastic clutch disk area.? That area tends to get oils from the bearings that creep in to the surfaces, and of course, once oils are there the clutch will not hold..it will slowly creep under any kind of imbalance.? Or contact me for high friction clutch disks that will hold much better and seal out the oils or moisture.??

Then...do not yet reassemble the DEC axis.? With the DEC axis off, remove the RA axis and repeat the cleaning for the RA axis.??

Then reassemble the RA axis, then the DEC axis.

You do have to lube the worms too to reduce the rubbing metal to metal friction as much as possible.? There are good lubes for this.? If you are in a warm location like me, the grease recommended by the factory is Artic Jetlube.? However, from the specs on friction alone, there is a better low friction grease: CRC Brake and Caliper Grease sold at auto parts stores.? You must paint that grease into the teeth of the worm wheel (aka ring gear) all around.? Then the worm.? Then assemble the worm so its threads are inserted well into the ring gear teeth.? Then gently push the worm inward, and cinch down the left and right bearing blocks.? While you are doing that inward motion on the worm, also you must compress the worm along its axis so the worm blocks (their tiny bearings on either end of the worm) hold the worm from left to right motion.? In this way you eliminate?the time lags (hysteresis) in the drive mechanism.??

Once the worm is adjusted and its worm blocks locked down, test the mount drives using your Gemini (if so equipped).? If you have a tucked motor system, you can adjust the spur gear to spur gear mesh by shifting the gearbox position on the lower spur gear.? If you have a spring loaded worm system, you must also adjust the worm "back off bolt" so that the heavy spring does not put undue friction on the worm to ring gear rubbing surfaces.??

I find it best to use an ammeter on the DC current going into the Gemini, in order to have a "dashboard" for these adjustments.? If the ammeter shows the Gemini motor current going way up, I know that the drive threads are in too tightly.? The motor current is also a good way to judge an imbalance in each asix.? You put the axis horizontal and slew the motor back and forth in direction, and if there is an imbalance, the currents will be different.??

That's not all, of course.? There are recommendations to "supertune" your mount and I've described those in various writings. No sense repeating those instructions here.? If you need some of those supertune parts, let me know.? ? Work on these mounts, even old ones, have demonstrated a PE down to under 1 arcsec RMS.? It can be achieved, but takes some elbow grease and upgraded parts like superior worm bearings.? These parts are quite reasonable in price.??

Don't be daunted... the mount is a simple design, not an automobile automatic transmission!??

All the best,
Michael



On Tue, Aug 30, 2022 at 3:34 PM Robert Hancey <rdhx@...> wrote:
Bob Hancey here, have received some posting for rehab work. May well be the path to repair, but working for success at this point, but the mount may require more than my skills i.e., professional/ divine intervention. Respectfully submitted



--
Michael Herman
mobile: 408 421-1239
email: mherman346@...