|
Hi folks,
?
Tanya at Losmandy asked me to post an update. Losmandy shop has no phone or internet service at the moment due to LA fires.
?
If you need to reach the shop, please email Tanya directly, at tanyak @ losmandy.com, but be aware that it may take her some time to respond.
?
Regards,
?
? ?- Paul
?
|
Thanks for the update Paul.
?
The fires are having a terrible impact.? I pray that everyone at Losmandy and their extended families stay safe.
On a positive note,? ?I just listened to the Eaton fire update and the Mt. Wilson observatory complex was spared damage due to the great efforts of the combined fire response teams and the observatory staff. They are not out of danger yet, but the run the fire made in their direction yesterday was blocked.?
?
|
Thanks Paul
?
I agree these fires are terrible. ?Thoughts and prayers for all. Not that I’m religious….but I will be for this! ? ?It ?as truly awful Aussies know fires like this but that’s northern hemispheres winter time!
?
Hope all local members are safe
?
good luck to all affected?
--
Brendan
|
Surprised?me when fire officials said the buildings were basically made of petrochemicals. Said to self, "really?" "OK," vinyl siding, bituminous ro asphalt roofing, phenolic/wood fiber or foam sheathing, polypropylene (PP)?carpeting?on glued MDF flooring, furniture of urethane?foam?covered in PP, PVC plumbing and wire insulation, glulam framing. Didn't?learn much from the Three Little Pigs, did we?
|
On Sun, Jan 12, 2025 at 07:50 AM, George Cushing wrote:
Surprised?me when fire officials said the buildings were basically made of petrochemicals. Said to self, "really?" "OK," vinyl siding, bituminous ro asphalt roofing, phenolic/wood fiber or foam sheathing, polypropylene (PP)?carpeting?on glued MDF flooring, furniture of urethane?foam?covered in PP, PVC plumbing and wire insulation, glulam framing. Didn't?learn much from the Three Little Pigs, did we?
?
By weight modern homes here in SoCal are largely steel reinforced wood structures.? I manage some properties in the Pasadena area and one of my jobs are the improvements, I oversee lots of ground up work.? There is very little foam used at all and all fresh water and gas lines are copper or steel.? AFAIK the only plastic material used are for in wall electrical insulation and a single small HVAC drain.? Roofing is largely engineered plywood with the one place where petrochemicals are commonly used in asphalt shingle and treated paper.? But many roofs are concrete shingle for fire resistance.? Not sure what that guy was talking about.??
?
--
Chip Louie Chief Daydreamer Imagination Hardware?
Astrospheric Forecast - South Pasadena, CA?
?
?
?
|
Even with concrete shingles? the eves are still wood and that's where the embers lodge and the fire starts, working its way under the roof and into the attic.
Most of the houses in these areas are not modern construction and don't have interior sprinkler systems.?
What's sad is that a code requirement to use fire resistant material such as glass impregnated lumber on all exterior exposures would not add significant cost to construction and has been available for decades.
It would also end the dry termite epidemic in California, which is also senseless.?
?
?
?
?
|
As a retired emergency manager in Oregon, I've seen the increased risk of urban interface fires spread across the West.? With anthropogenic climate change continuing to warm the earth, I'm afraid that conditions that sparked fires like those in LA are the new normal.? It's only a matter of time before events like we're currently witnessing expand across even more of the West.? Oregon had its most expensive wildland firefighting year to date in 2024, requiring an emergency session of the legislature to provide additional funding to battle fires.??
?
While changes to building codes and zoning can help to prevent the risk from spreading into new neighborhoods, only a massive effort (very expensive) to retro-fit older structures and bury power lines, along with such things as changes in allowable landscaping will help to mitigate the risk of more frequent and larger urban interface fires.? This will require revenue increases both to respond to and mitigate the effects of fires.? Raising taxes to pay for it all, and rules banning large water-intensive landscaping will be unpopular, but likely necessary to keep fires like these from destroying even more homes and lives.?
|
In the book, "Glass Giant of Palomar" about the design and construction of the 200" telescope, they dwell a bit on the fire issue. A loss of the ground cover vegetation seriously disturbs the local seeing. So they included local water storage and fire fighting equipment in the specifications.
?
As well, the structures were concrete, the utilities were all underground and the ventilation systems were capable of being closed off to prevent smoke or burning matter from entering the buildings.
?
Fire fighting is probably not a serious issue at either the Hawaiian or Chilean scope sites!
?
Mike
?
|
Well, the tree line is well below the telescopes on Mauna Kea, to be sure. I hiked it a few years back with an altimeter and I think the last of the large vegetation stopped around 8,000 or so feet, not to mention that the eastern side is usually very wet. But it's right next to Mauna Loa, Hualalai, and Kilauea, with the potential for vog. Hualalai erupts only rarely and it's pretty far away. Kilauea is closer, but the summit is much lower, between 4,000 and 5,000 feet, and Mauna Loa is in the way, plus the winds would carry any vog to the northwest, away from Mauna Kea. But Mauna Loa sometimes erupts along the saddle separating Mauna Loa and Mauna Kea, at 8,000 feet. So, while vog would not likely reach the telescopes directly, an eruption from Mauna Loa could potentially threaten Saddle Road and the observatory access road, which would interfere with astronomers and support personnel reaching the telescopes. The dormitories are at 9,300 feet, a few miles away from Saddle Road, so anyone there could stay there as long as they had supplies, but eruptions can sometimes take a while to clear out.
Oh, by the way, vog usually consists of water vapor, sulphuric acid, and microscopic glass powder, among other nasty things, so it's not something you want to breathe or expose your sensitive instruments to. While not as severe as Mt. Wilson right now, even Mauna Loa has its threats.
In the book, "Glass Giant of Palomar" about the design and construction of the 200" telescope, they dwell a bit on the fire issue. A loss of the ground cover vegetation seriously disturbs the local seeing. So they included local water storage and fire fighting equipment in the specifications.
?
As well, the structures were concrete, the utilities were all underground and the ventilation systems were capable of being closed off to prevent smoke or burning matter from entering the buildings.
?
Fire fighting is probably not a serious issue at either the Hawaiian or Chilean scope sites!
?
Mike
?
|
I haven't hiked it, but have driven to the top of Mauna Kea.? Fire is probably not a big concern, except for the effect on seeing if a large fire, or volcanic eruption were to occur with winds blowing smoke and gas upslope.? Mt. Wilson is a national treasure though and the thought of losing it gives me some anxiety.? Certainly, the losses to life and property in LA County is the main concern and resources need to be focused on the overwhelming tragedy unfolding for tens of thousands of Angelinos.? Nonetheless, I'm encouraged by the thought that some forethought was given to fire prevention and that it, along with the efforts of firefighters, had prevented an additional catastrophe.? Interestingly, most of the coverage seen in Oregon was concerned mostly with communication facilities at the peak.? A vital resource indeed.? I would be surprised if some reporters knew the observatory was there or understood its significance.??
|
Paul Kanevsky
Chip Louie