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Many thanks for the SuperLube info, Chip.??
I recall years ago that an Orion EQ6 owner experimented with many lubes, testing them cold from his freezer...he concluded SuperLube the best for low temperature behavior.??
Stay well, and thanks again for the product details,
Michael
For the people who are looking to buy Super Lube here is some information.?
Synco is the company that makes the Super Lube product. The full name is Super Lube Multi-Purpose Synthetic Grease With Syncolon (super small Teflon particles) I am using the NLGI-Grade-2 product, the 14 oz. tub is #41160/2 and a 14 oz. cartridge is #41150/2. You can also buy the same product in smaller sizes but the tubs are the cheapest per ounce cost.?
Regarding NLGI grades this is the consistency of the grease, NLGI-Grade-1 is like tomato paste or yogurt where NLGI-Grade-2 is like natural peanut butter. I have used both but use NLGI-Grade-2 stuff.??
--
Chip Louie - Chief Daydreamer Imagination Hardware
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Here is the right stuff and I think the best deal, 14oz. tub on Amazon.com:
This is what I bought and shared with my friends and used when cleaning and lubing Losmandy G11 and GM8 mounts.?
?
--
Chip Louie - Chief Daydreamer Imagination Hardware
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Hi Michael,
You have to remember we live in a state that has the gamut of air temperatures from very high to sub zero temps and as crazy as that sounds some people use their mounts in these conditions. The low temp start up torque is very important for imagers who seem to like the conditions that cold weather seems to bring with it. But you also have to have a grease with a base oil that is not going to seperate and run off when things get hot leaving the hardened baked clay mess behind like Lithium and other clay thickened greases do, Super Lube doesn't do that. This is easy to figure out, check the base oil on the TDS, lithium, petroleum and silicone are bad, check the thickener used if listed.??
--
Chip Louie - Chief Daydreamer Imagination Hardware
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That is good stuff, it is the only grease I use. Great for nearly everything that I've tried it on around the house.
HAPPY SKIES AND KEEP LOOKING UP Deric
Sent from my Galaxy Tab A
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Show quoted text
-------- Original message --------
From: Chip Louie <chiplouie@...>
Date: 7/11/20 2:22 PM (GMT-06:00)
Subject: Re: [Losmandy_users_io] Maintenance
Here is the right stuff and I think the best deal, 14oz. tub on Amazon.com:
This is what I bought and shared with my friends and used when cleaning and lubing Losmandy G11 and GM8 mounts.?
?
--
Chip Louie - Chief Daydreamer Imagination Hardware
|
>>>
you also have to have a grease with a base oil that is not going to seperate and run off when things get hot leaving the hardened baked lay mess behind like Lithium and other clay thickened greases do, Super Lube doesn't do that.?
definitely NOT lithium!
On Sat, Jul 11, 2020 at 12:33 PM Chip Louie < chiplouie@...> wrote: Hi Michael,
You have to remember we live in a state that has the gamut of air temperatures from very high to sub zero temps and as crazy as that sounds some people use their mounts in these conditions. The low temp start up torque is very important for imagers who seem to like the conditions that cold weather seems to bring with it. But you also have to have a grease with a base oil that is not going to seperate and run off when things get hot leaving the hardened baked lay mess behind like Lithium and other clay thickened greases do, Super Lube doesn't do that.?
--
Chip Louie - Chief Daydreamer Imagination Hardware
-- Brian?
Brian Valente portfolio
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Doesn't sound like a consensus. ?I live in AZ where temps can go below zero to 120 in the day with 100 at night. ?Molybdium is a thick, sticky messy paste. I would really like a consensus on the best lubricant that can run full temp swings. ?The recommended lube from Losmandy is the Jet-lube mp50? ?Then the non oem recommendation is syncrolube, slick 50, etc.
I am leaning towards the Jet-lube you don't need much and it stays put.
My mount is going in for service and upgrades so whatever is used to lube, I want to purchase extra.
What is the consensus? ?Is it one lube or is there a choice depending on operating temps?
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I kind of doubt I will be re-lubing my 811 in my lifetime.
So I'm happy and confident in whatever grease Scott used in my mount.
It works great.
Some folks are hell bent on reinventing the wheel though.
--
SonnyE
(I suggest viewed in full screen)
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Hi Steve
I can just tell you what we use at the shop - Jet Lube MP-50 moly paste
i don't think you'll get a consensus otherwise - everyone has their opinion, and in the astro community i've found most aren't afraid to express it :)?
Many other recommendations are perfectly fine as well. Just avoid lithium grease
On Tue, Aug 11, 2020 at 3:28 AM Steve Ruttenberg < steve@...> wrote: Doesn't sound like a consensus.? I live in AZ where temps can go below zero to 120 in the day with 100 at night.? Molybdium is a thick, sticky messy paste. I would really like a consensus on the best lubricant that can run full temp swings.? The recommended lube from Losmandy is the Jet-lube mp50?? Then the non oem recommendation is syncrolube, slick 50, etc.
I am leaning towards the Jet-lube you don't need much and it stays put.
My mount is going in for service and upgrades so whatever is used to lube, I want to purchase extra.
What is the consensus?? Is it one lube or is there a choice depending on operating temps?
-- Brian?
Brian Valente portfolio
|
To be sure, nobody is reinventing any wheels. Owners do encounter legitimate trouble with their mounts.? The best lube may not be universal.? ?? People in climates other than LA area do see extreme temperatures, and their stock grease/lube from the factory may not suffice.? ?LA is a wonderful place to live and work.? Never snows, hardly ever rains.? It's why 20M people are crowded in there.? The heavy molyD based lube for the bearings might be ok in that benign climate.? (Though Chip who lives there does not agree even then...)
For the desert like Aizona, temperatures can change by 100F during one day.? That does not generally happen in beautiful LA.??
A study by a member of the EQMOD group many years ago showed that SuperLube stayed the most slippery even at below freezing temperatures (the person put the stuff in their freezer to test it vs other types of lube).? SuperLube should be strongly considered the best for extreme weather.? This is what Chip has been recommending for years also.
I live in Northern California, also benign weather...fog, frost, but little rain and zero snow.? Generally cooler than LA but it can also get as hot.? ?My mounts are left outdoors covered in multiple tarps. They will get to 100F in summer heat, and down to below freezing in the coldest winter nights...but not in a single day.? I have experienced light oils that are in some lubes eventually run out and got on my plastic clutch pads, making them slip.? I also went with Chip's suggestion of SuperLube, and I have not found any slipping of my clutches.? I have not re-lubed any of my mounts in years, unless I was installing new components.?
(I did replace my plastic clutches with high friction type and these new ones also block out oil capillary migration. )
So: the factory does it's thing...it has not changed its process of making mounts.? It uses the same heavy grease as it has in the past.??
The needle bearings used throughout the mount do require a light lube to keep them free running.? Else they will "gum up" and be hard to rotate.? Please read yourself online about needle bearings and their maintenance.??
So owners in different climates should look out for either high friction in the axes rotation, or slipping clutch disks.? If you find these issues, try cleaning out any old dried lubricant, and try SuperLube.??
Chip earlier recommended this particular version of SuperLube (from Amazon):?
Super Lube 41160 Synthetic Grease (NLGI 2) 14.1 oz cannister translucent white.? From Amazon it is $9.85 today with free shipping...? The stuff with "Syncolon" PTFE.? Resists wear, corrosives, dirt, dust, saltwater, water.??
Stay well, all!!!??
Michael
I kind of doubt I will be re-lubing my 811 in my lifetime.
So I'm happy and confident in whatever grease Scott used in my mount.
It works great.
Some folks are hell bent on reinventing the wheel though.
--
SonnyE
(I suggest viewed in full screen)
|
>>>it has not changed its process of making mounts.? It uses the same heavy grease as it has in the past.???
I don't think that's a fair characterization Michael
We have switched grease several times over the years when we find a better one. If we find a better one than the current one, we'll switch to that
and of course the mounts themselves have evolved quite a bit over the years
>>
The heavy molyD based lube for the bearings might be ok in that benign climate.? (Though Chip who lives there does not agree even then...)
MP-50 is rated for -300 to 750F?
?Although Losmandy is based in LA, the lube we use is not just "for LA and simliar areas"
i would say that covers most expected temperatures - at least on Earth ;)
On Tue, Aug 11, 2020 at 10:08 AM Michael Herman < mherman346@...> wrote: To be sure, nobody is reinventing any wheels. Owners do encounter legitimate trouble with their mounts.? The best lube may not be universal.? ?? People in climates other than LA area do see extreme temperatures, and their stock grease/lube from the factory may not suffice.? ?LA is a wonderful place to live and work.? Never snows, hardly ever rains.? It's why 20M people are crowded in there.? The heavy molyD based lube for the bearings might be ok in that benign climate.? (Though Chip who lives there does not agree even then...)
For the desert like Aizona, temperatures can change by 100F during one day.? That does not generally happen in beautiful LA.??
A study by a member of the EQMOD group many years ago showed that SuperLube stayed the most slippery even at below freezing temperatures (the person put the stuff in their freezer to test it vs other types of lube).? SuperLube should be strongly considered the best for extreme weather.? This is what Chip has been recommending for years also.
I live in Northern California, also benign weather...fog, frost, but little rain and zero snow.? Generally cooler than LA but it can also get as hot.? ?My mounts are left outdoors covered in multiple tarps. They will get to 100F in summer heat, and down to below freezing in the coldest winter nights...but not in a single day.? I have experienced light oils that are in some lubes eventually run out and got on my plastic clutch pads, making them slip.? I also went with Chip's suggestion of SuperLube, and I have not found any slipping of my clutches.? I have not re-lubed any of my mounts in years, unless I was installing new components.?
(I did replace my plastic clutches with high friction type and these new ones also block out oil capillary migration. )
So: the factory does it's thing...it has not changed its process of making mounts.? It uses the same heavy grease as it has in the past.??
The needle bearings used throughout the mount do require a light lube to keep them free running.? Else they will "gum up" and be hard to rotate.? Please read yourself online about needle bearings and their maintenance.??
So owners in different climates should look out for either high friction in the axes rotation, or slipping clutch disks.? If you find these issues, try cleaning out any old dried lubricant, and try SuperLube.??
Chip earlier recommended this particular version of SuperLube (from Amazon):?
Super Lube 41160 Synthetic Grease (NLGI 2) 14.1 oz cannister translucent white.? From Amazon it is $9.85 today with free shipping...? The stuff with "Syncolon" PTFE.? Resists wear, corrosives, dirt, dust, saltwater, water.??
Stay well, all!!!??
Michael
I kind of doubt I will be re-lubing my 811 in my lifetime.
So I'm happy and confident in whatever grease Scott used in my mount.
It works great.
Some folks are hell bent on reinventing the wheel though.
--
SonnyE
(I suggest viewed in full screen)
-- Brian?
Brian Valente portfolio
|
About fifteen years ago I lubed my (stepper version) G11 with Slick 50 bearing grease.? Since that time I have used it in temperatures from -20F to as hot as I could stand.??
I'm sure Super Lube would do the trick.? ? Any vehicle bearing grease that you could drive through Death Valley in the summer and up to Alaska in the winter would do the trick.? Remember that you'll be dead before the amount of wear on your mount bearings equals the wear on a vehicle by taking just one trip to the super market.? Back and forth, back and forth, across the sky: maybe 30 times in a night?? And not even every night.??
Pretty low rpm usage, even if your usage is high.? I mean, compared to thousands of rpm, you have in one year less than a typical vehicle will accrue in one minute (on the basis of rpm).
The only grease problem I've heard of is in the 1990s the grease that came with the needle bearings interacted with the grease Losmandy was using in the mount.? The two together made a glue like stuff.? You had to brush it out with a tooth brush and solvent.??
Religious wars about the best grease and out gassing also come up among SCT users when the more adventurous of them are going into the tube to regrease the baffle sleeve.? There the big bugaboo is "outgassing."? ?
I remember I got some very expensive synthetic used in the space program because of my fear of outgassing.? I ended up re-selling it on Astromart.? For whatever reason I don't think it worked out.? This was fifteen or sixteen years ago.? I think that my problem with it is that the focus did not have a "smooth feel" with this stuff.??
Anyhow I removed it all as best I could and ended up using my Slick 50 bearing grease.? The particular container I used is no longer sold (from what I see).? I'm sure Super Lube would be just as good.? ?Anyhow that was fifteen years ago I have used the scope and the mount in freezing conditions and I have left the C14 with its regular ol' bearing grease on the baffle sleeve in a hot closed car.? So far no out gassing.? So far everything works.
I don't expect to have to mess with the G11 or the C14 again till I croak.??
These are beautiful pieces of equipment that we're talking about and we all want to baby our gear.? And maybe if you're in wretchedly dusty conditions you *do* need to to regrease the mount, I won't say no.? But the conditions which would do harm to your G11: put it this way, I have pity for your optics.? If the G11 is going down your optics are going first under those extremes.
I sympathize with the desire to tinker with the mount I was "into" that when I first got mine.? One of the things I did was install a third needle bearing in the RA and Dec axes.? Way back when, around 2003-2004, that was one of the leading prescriptions to reduce PE.? I have no idea why.? Anyhow I was operating a C14 on the mount and I thought well maybe the extra bearings will help out with the C14.? So I put them in and they are there to this day.? I really can't say if they improved anything.??
These days I just use the mount.? I've had it 18 years.??
Greg N
?
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Very nice report, Greg.
One comment, and a few questions:
Since you mentioned it: ?Dow Corning makes its High Vacuum Grease product that is used in experimental physics high vacuum chambers.? It has very very low outgassing properties.? I use that for lubing my SCT primary mirror slide tubes.? It comes in a 150 gram (5.3oz) tube.? ?So far my mirrors gave never fogged up from using that.? I would not trust any other lubricant for that...(unknown what Meade and Celestron use.)
Questions:? On the famed "3rd Bearing" improvement.? That was to stuff a 3rd cylindrical needle bearing in the top of the RA (DEC too?) I bought a few if them to add...but never had the courage to try it.
Then I heard from another in our group that one cannot be added on a CG11 (I have one) but can be added to a G11 (I have one of those also).? I've never tried it... you said you were unsure if it made a difference.? On my G11 carrying a C14....maybe would help distribute the weight better.? If your mount is a 18 years old....is it a G11 or a CG11? Did you put a 3rd bearing in both axes or only one of them?
Thanks,!!!!
Michael
About fifteen years ago I lubed my (stepper version) G11 with Slick 50 bearing grease.? Since that time I have used it in temperatures from -20F to as hot as I could stand.??
I'm sure Super Lube would do the trick.? ? Any vehicle bearing grease that you could drive through Death Valley in the summer and up to Alaska in the winter would do the trick.? Remember that you'll be dead before the amount of wear on your mount bearings equals the wear on a vehicle by taking just one trip to the super market.? Back and forth, back and forth, across the sky: maybe 30 times in a night?? And not even every night.??
Pretty low usage, even if your usage is high.
The only grease problem I've heard of is in the 1990s the grease that came with the needle bearings interacted with the grease Losmandy was using in the mount.? The two together made a glue like stuff.? You had to brush it out with a tooth brush and solvent.??
Religious wars about the best grease and out gassing also come up among SCT users when the more adventurous of them are going into the tube to regrease the baffle sleeve.? There the big bugaboo is "outgassing."? ?
I remember I got some very expensive synthetic used in the space program because of my fear of outgassing.? I ended up re-selling it on Astromart.? For whatever reason I don't think it worked out.? This was fifteen or sixteen years ago.? I think that my problem with it is that the focus did not have a "smooth feel" with this stuff.??
Anyhow I removed it all as best I could and ended up using my Slick 50 bearing grease.? The particular container I used is no longer sold (from what I see).? I'm sure Super Lube would be just as good.? ?Anyhow that was fifteen years ago I have used the scope and the mount in freezing conditions and I have left the C14 with its regular ol' bearing grease on the baffle sleeve in a hot closed car.? So far no out gassing.? So far everything works.
I don't expect to have to mess with the G11 or the C14 again till I croak.??
These are beautiful pieces of equipment that we're talking about and we all want to baby our gear.? And maybe if you're in wretchedly dusty conditions you *do* need to to regrease the mount, I won't say no.? But the conditions which would do harm to your G11: put it this way, I have pity for your optics.? If the G11 is going down your optics are going first under those extremes.
I sympathize with the desire to tinker with the mount I was "into" that when I first got mine.? One of the things I did was install a third needle bearing in the RA and Dec axes.? Way back when, around 2003-2004, that was one of the leading prescriptions to reduce PE.? I have no idea why.? Anyhow I was operating a C14 on the mount and I thought well maybe the extra bearings will help out with the C14.? So I put them in and they are there to this day.? I really can't say if they improved anything.??
These days I just use the mount.? I've had it 18 years.??
Greg N
?
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Michael Herman
Chip Louie
Steve Ruttenberg