|
Anyone using the ASIAIR to control a G11 Gemini II? ? I have ASI cameras and it looks like a nice system to manage my equipment. ? Any known issues with goto? ?Any issues using SkySafari? ? Any help is appreciated. ?Thanks?
--
Tim Kimbler
|
Hi Tim,
First you need to know that the ASIAIR-PRO is a dedicated ZWO only environment and it is only useful for imaging it is not a general purpose computer. Set up as I have it here you can use a phone based planetarium app to find and direct the Gemini to an object but the ASIAIR-PRO has a good sized database of objects available internally so it is not a requirement and with the ASIAIR-PRO plate solver you will get the best positioning results for imaging.?
?
Anyway, I have been playing with an ASIAIR-PRO to run a ZWO-EAF autofocuser, ASI290MM-mini for autoguiding, ASI183MM-PRO & ZWO-EFW as the main imager and filter wheel on my G11G with Gemini 2-mini. The truth is the standard R-Pi4B WiFi sucks and this is a known issue. So I looked for a solution and found it in the GL.iNet Slate nano router. There are cheaper routers out there but nothing combines AC750 WiFi speed, strong radio signal and a 3 port Gigabit switch in a nano sized package and let's be honest, the $30 upcharge over a standard nano router with only N150-N300 WiFi speed and a single 10/100 Ethernet port is not even a rounding error in terms of imaging gear cost.??
The EAF, EFW, imaging and guide cameras are all connected to the ASIAIR-PRO using appropriate USB ports. The ASIAIR-PRO is connected to the SLATE AC750 router's 3-port Gigabit switch, the Gemini 2-mini is also connected using a wired Ethernet connection to the Slate. If you use the Slate in the default router mode you can get to the ASIAIR-PRO through the Slate and it just works as it was supposed to. There is some setup involved using the ASIAIR-PRO app on a phone or laptop running under an Android emulator over WiFi. Using static IPs are perfectly reliable so that's what I do for this kind of application. You set static IPs for the ASIAIRPRO, Gemini 2 controller and Slate router. Once set you connect to the Slate using the Slate's IP addy and the ASIAIR-PRO and? Gemini IPs will be accessible. One thing you need to know is that by default the Gemini 2 uses UDP protocol with port 11110 (top of my head) not TCP at port 4030 (also top of my head). This must be set to get the ASIAIR-PRO to connect to the Gemini 2.?
The best situation is where you have the Slate working as a bridge which allows you to use as above but when you are near your home LAN it connects to the local LAN over WiFi and you can see the Gemini and ASIAIR-PRO on the network. Of course you need to run an emulator on your PC to use the ASIAIR-PRO Android app but this is an easy install using the BlueStacks Android emulator.??
Anyway the short answer is yes it works pretty well once setup right.
Here are a couple of images to show the current piggyback guide camera setup which will be replaced in a few days and retested using a new ZWO OAG with helical focuser to see if there is enough advantage to overcome any disadvantages of using an OAG behind a refractor. At some point I will also test the OAG behind a hot-rodded M10" f/6.3 SCT with a Starizona SCT II 0.63X Coma Corrector working @ f/4. Could be really good, or not we'll have to see.?I'm waiting to test again with the latest updated Android app and ASIAIR-PRO firmware if the clouds clear out here in sunny southern California.?
??
--
Chip Louie Chief Daydreamer Imagination Hardware?
? ?Astropheric Weather Forecast - South Pasadena, CA?
|
Hi!
Just about "the wifi sucks". The ASIAIR-PRO has a metal case,
right? If so, that is why it sucks. Plug in a wifi dongle and you
probably have good wifi. That is what I have with my R-Pi 4. Metal
case, good for cooling, very bad for wifi. Dongle produce high
speed wifi.
Or tried and tested solution: an ethernet cable. Which is what
you do, Chip, right?
Best,
Magnus
Den 2020-12-08 kl. 22:45, skrev Chip
Louie:
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
Hi Tim,
First you need to know that the ASIAIR-PRO is a dedicated ZWO only
environment and it is only useful for imaging it is not a general
purpose computer. set up as I have it here you can use a phone
based planetarium app to find and direct the Gemini to an object
but the ASIAIR-PRO has a good sized database of objects available
internally so it is not a requirement and with the ASIAIR-PRO
plate solver you will get the best result.?
?
Anyway, I have been playing with an ASIAIR-PRO to run a ZWO-EAF
autofocuser, ASI290MM-mini for autoguiding, ASI183MM-PRO &
ZWO-EFW as the main imager and filter wheel on my G11G with Gemini
2-mini. The truth is the standard R-Pi4B WiFi sucks and this is a
known issue. So I looked for a solution and found it in the
GL.iNet Slate nano router. There are cheaper routers out there but
nothing combines AC750 WiFi speed, strong radio signal and a 3
port Gigabit switch in a nano sized package and let's be honest,
the $30 upcharge is not even a rounding error in terms of imaging
gear cost.??
The EAF, EFW, imaging and guide cameras are all connected to the
ASIAIR-PRO using appropriate USB ports. The ASIAIR-PRO is
connected to the SLATE AC750 router's 3-port Gigabit switch, the
Gemini 2-mini is also connected over a wired Ethernet connection
to the Slate. If you use the Slate in the default router mode you
can get to the ASIAIR-PRO through the Slate and it just works as
it was supposed to. There is some setup involved using the
ASIAIR-PRO app on a phone or laptop running under an Android
emulator over WiFi. Using static IPs are perfectly reliable so
that's what I do for this kind of application. You set static IPs
for the ASIAIRPRO, Gemini 2 controller and Slate router. Once set
you connect to the Slate using the Slate's IP addy and the
ASIAIR-PRO and? Gemini IPs will be accessible. One thing you need
to know is that by default the Gemini 2 uses UDP protocol with
port 11110 (top of my head) not TCP at port 4030 (also top of my
head). This must be set to get the ASIAIR-PRO to connect to the
Gemini 2.?
Anyway the short answer is yes it works pretty well once setup
right. Here are a couple of images to show the setup I'm waiting
to test again if the clouds clear out here in sunny southern
California.?
??
--
Chip Louie
Chief Daydreamer Imagination Hardware?
? ?Astropheric Weather Forecast - South Pasadena, CA?
|
If you're using a RPI4 with a flirc case you can just cut the end out and the wifi works great. That's where the antenna is:??I imagine that you could cut a hole in the ASIAir as well...
As far as I understand the ASIAirPro is a RPI4 with a 12v power board attached. It's running a branch of the standard kstars/ekos/indi stack. I believe that you can even load astroberry onto it. If you do that then it becomes a more general purpose computer, but you may loose control of the 12v power supply. I heard some talk of software to control the 12v power, but I'm not sure as I don't have an ASIAir.?
Jamie
|
Well sounds a little more complicated than I thought it would be. ? Are there any other similar solutions to consider? ? I have a laptop with NINA PHD plate solving planetary software. ?I was looking for a simpler solution. ?Should I just stay with the laptop and get all the applications working? ? I could get a USB extenders and run cat5 into my house. ? Any thoughts or suggestions? ?Thanks?
|
I personally use a NUC-style computer attached to my telescope, and I remote in from my home desktop (and iPad too, if i'm in bed or just want to check on things :) )
just like a windows machine, but it lives out there
if you have some $$ you can look at the prima luce Eagle, which is essentially a purpose-built windows nuc-style box, with a lot of bells and whistles specific to astronomy (power distribution, more USB ports, etc.)
Software Bisque has one too but it's pricier
Well sounds a little more complicated than I thought it would be. ? Are there any other similar solutions to consider? ? I have a laptop with NINA PHD plate solving planetary software.? I was looking for a simpler solution.? Should I just stay with the laptop and get all the applications working? ? I could get a USB extenders and run cat5 into my house. ? Any thoughts or suggestions?? Thanks?
-- Brian?
Brian Valente portfolio
|
Magnus, I apologize for being dense, but what is a ¡°WiFi dongle¡±? ?Thanks Tom --- magnus@... wrote: From: "Magnus Larsson" <magnus@...> To: [email protected]Subject: Re: [Losmandy_users_io] G11 Gemini II ASIAIR Date: Tue, 8 Dec 2020 23:14:25 +0100
Hi!
Just about "the wifi sucks". The ASIAIR-PRO has a metal case,
right? If so, that is why it sucks. Plug in a wifi dongle and you
probably have good wifi. That is what I have with my R-Pi 4. Metal
case, good for cooling, very bad for wifi. Dongle produce high
speed wifi.
Or tried and tested solution: an ethernet cable. Which is what
you do, Chip, right?
Best,
Magnus
Den 2020-12-08 kl. 22:45, skrev Chip
Louie:
Hi Tim,
First you need to know that the ASIAIR-PRO is a dedicated ZWO only
environment and it is only useful for imaging it is not a general
purpose computer. set up as I have it here you can use a phone
based planetarium app to find and direct the Gemini to an object
but the ASIAIR-PRO has a good sized database of objects available
internally so it is not a requirement and with the ASIAIR-PRO
plate solver you will get the best result.?
?
Anyway, I have been playing with an ASIAIR-PRO to run a ZWO-EAF
autofocuser, ASI290MM-mini for autoguiding, ASI183MM-PRO &
ZWO-EFW as the main imager and filter wheel on my G11G with Gemini
2-mini. The truth is the standard R-Pi4B WiFi sucks and this is a
known issue. So I looked for a solution and found it in the
GL.iNet Slate nano router. There are cheaper routers out there but
nothing combines AC750 WiFi speed, strong radio signal and a 3
port Gigabit switch in a nano sized package and let's be honest,
the $30 upcharge is not even a rounding error in terms of imaging
gear cost.??
The EAF, EFW, imaging and guide cameras are all connected to the
ASIAIR-PRO using appropriate USB ports. The ASIAIR-PRO is
connected to the SLATE AC750 router's 3-port Gigabit switch, the
Gemini 2-mini is also connected over a wired Ethernet connection
to the Slate. If you use the Slate in the default router mode you
can get to the ASIAIR-PRO through the Slate and it just works as
it was supposed to. There is some setup involved using the
ASIAIR-PRO app on a phone or laptop running under an Android
emulator over WiFi. Using static IPs are perfectly reliable so
that's what I do for this kind of application. You set static IPs
for the ASIAIRPRO, Gemini 2 controller and Slate router. Once set
you connect to the Slate using the Slate's IP addy and the
ASIAIR-PRO and? Gemini IPs will be accessible. One thing you need
to know is that by default the Gemini 2 uses UDP protocol with
port 11110 (top of my head) not TCP at port 4030 (also top of my
head). This must be set to get the ASIAIR-PRO to connect to the
Gemini 2.?
Anyway the short answer is yes it works pretty well once setup
right. Here are a couple of images to show the setup I'm waiting
to test again if the clouds clear out here in sunny southern
California.?
??
--
Chip Louie
Chief Daydreamer Imagination Hardware?
? ?Astropheric Weather Forecast - South Pasadena, CA?
|
Hi Tim,
I started with a good laptop solution like you and then moved to a powerful on scope PC to run the usual SGP and PHD2. It was a very fast, expensive, heavy and power hungry solution.?So I jumped when the ASIAIR-PRO was released.
As far as I can see by using all ZWO components ZWO can ensure it all works together (and sells a lot of equipment) the system is plug and play. The ASIAIR-PRO has an easy to use built-in interface that allows control of all the parts, autoguider, main camera, focuser etc. and also does sequencing for you. If you can use PHD2, SGP etc. this is a piece of cake and it all works. The entire point of the ASIAIR-PRO is to have an integrated full featured system that works as your needs grow.
I see no good reason to go back to my fancier hardware based on the improving software and capabilities of the ASIAIR-PRO system. If I were a hard core imager in a dark sky area with a nnice big observatory dedicated to imaging the ASIAIR-PRO might not be enough. But if you are like me, a portable imager and often visual observer without a big annual budget and time for imaging I think the ASIAIR-PRO solves a lot of problems that people run into that slow or stop their progress in imaging.??
? ?
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
Well sounds a little more complicated than I thought it would be. ? Are there any other similar solutions to consider? ? I have a laptop with NINA PHD plate solving planetary software. ?I was looking for a simpler solution. ?Should I just stay with the laptop and get all the applications working? ? I could get a USB extenders and run cat5 into my house. ? Any thoughts or suggestions? ?Thanks?
--
Chip Louie Chief Daydreamer Imagination Hardware?
? ?Astropheric Weather Forecast - South Pasadena, CA?
|
Tom,? A WiFi dongle is a self contained WiFi system you plug into a USB port to add WiFi or enhanced WiFi to an existing computer. I have not tried it on the ASIAIR-PRO because I imagined the ASIAIR-PRO would not be able to use a WiFi dongle without some work on the O/S which you do not normally have access to when running the ASIAIR app. I could jailbreak the ASIAIR-PRO and get into the O/S and while it would be entertaining on an inexpensive $35 R-Pi4B the ASIAIR-PRO is a $300 R-Pi4B I paid extra for just to never have to deal with any of the usual issues people using R-Pi4B computers have to deal with to make them work in this application using other software. The obvious solution was to add a small nano or travel router with better WiFi and extra Ethernet ports for the Gemini 2 which also allows me to use the same setup in the driveway of my house over the house WiFi so I can be sitting inside sleeping eating, reading surfing etc. while the ASIAIR-PRO ran the sequencer and collected data for me. For this s it is glorious!? ?
Magnus, I apologize for being dense, but what is a ¡°WiFi dongle¡±? ?Thanks Tom
-- Chip Louie Chief Daydreamer Imagination Hardware?
? ?Astropheric Weather Forecast - South Pasadena, CA?
|
Hi Jamie,
Please cut off the end of your ASIAIR-PRO case and test out the WiFi for me. Thanks!?
--
Chip Louie Chief Daydreamer Imagination Hardware?
? ?Astropheric Weather Forecast - South Pasadena, CA?
|
Hi Magnus, Yes, R-Pi4B computer WiFi sucks even in the open air, this is a known issue with the R-Pi4B boards. So when an R-Pi4B is put into a heavy aluminum case (but it's a very pretty case!) then sandwiched with a Hat board designed with a ground plane to carry current for the 4 ports of PWM power the radiated Wi-Fi RF power getting out of the box is going to be pretty low and somewhat directional. This is just what happens when you put a tiny WiFi antenna in a Faraday cage. Originally I was just going to modify the R-Pi4B board by adding a u/FL connector socket to the WiFi RF section of the R+Pi4B circuit board and run a cable to an external connector to use a high gain antenna. I posted the details on the ASIAIR-PRO FaceBook page including parts needed to do it this way. But the project? seemed a bit much for most people to attempt and it is very easy to screw up the installation due to there being only a very small pad area for the soldered down u/FL socket. It required drilling a hole in the very pretty case. So instead I found a solution anybody with a credit card with $60 left on it could do. Just buy an off the shelf solution that allows the ASIAIR-PRO to work at full speed with full power WiFi and adds capabilities that helps Gemini users like me and others here on the Losmandy users group.? ? ?
Hi!
Just about "the wifi sucks". The ASIAIR-PRO has a metal case, right? If so, that is why it sucks. Plug in a wifi dongle and you probably have good wifi. That is what I have with my R-Pi 4. Metal case, good for cooling, very bad for wifi. Dongle produce high speed wifi.
Or tried and tested solution: an ethernet cable. Which is what you do, Chip, right?
Best,
Magnus
-- Chip Louie Chief Daydreamer Imagination Hardware?
? ?Astropheric Weather Forecast - South Pasadena, CA?
|
Hi Chip
>>> Buy an off the shelf solution that allows the ASIAIR-PRO to work at full speed with full power WiFi and adds capabilities that help Gemini users like me and other herem? on the Losmandy users group.? ? ?
I apologize but i'm a little confused now - what is the off-the-shelf solution?
[Edited Message Follows]
[Reason: clarity ]
Hi Magnus,
Yes, R-Pi4B WiFi sucks even in the open air, this is a known issue with the R-Pi4B boards. So when an R-Pi4B is put into a heavy aluminum (but pretty!) case then sandwiched with a Hat designed with a ground plane to carry current for the PWM power application the radiated Wi-Fi RF power getting out of the box is going to be pretty low and somewhat directional. This is what happens when you put the WiFi antenna in a Faraday cage.
Originally I was just going to modify the R-Pi4B board by adding a u/FL connector socket to the WiFi RF section and run a cable to an external connector and use a high gain antenna. But that seemed a little much for most people to attempt and it is easy to screw up the installation due to there being a very small pad area for the soldered down u/FL socket. Plus it required drilling the very pretty case so instead I found a solution anybody with a credit card with $60 left on it could do. Buy an off the shelf solution that allows the ASIAIR-PRO to work at full speed with full power WiFi and adds capabilities that help Gemini users like me and other herem? on the Losmandy users group.? ? ?
Hi!
Just about "the wifi sucks". The ASIAIR-PRO has a metal case, right? If so, that is why it sucks. Plug in a wifi dongle and you probably have good wifi. That is what I have with my R-Pi 4. Metal case, good for cooling, very bad for wifi. Dongle produce high speed wifi.
Or tried and tested solution: an ethernet cable. Which is what you do, Chip, right?
Best,
Magnus
--
Chip Louie Chief Daydreamer Imagination Hardware?
? ?Astropheric Weather Forecast - South Pasadena, CA?
-- Brian?
Brian Valente portfolio
|
OK, thanks Chip! One of the many reasons I like Astrophotography is I literally learn something new every day! Some things I learn by being stupid to begin with. Thanks for your patience!! ?Tom --- chiplouie@... wrote: From: "Chip Louie" <chiplouie@...> To: [email protected]Subject: Re: [Losmandy_users_io] G11 Gemini II ASIAIR Date: Tue, 08 Dec 2020 16:21:18 -0800 Tom,? A WiFi dongle is a self contained WiFi system you plug into a USB port to add WiFi or enhanced WiFi to an existing computer. I have not tried it on the ASIAIR-PRO because I imagined the ASIAIR-PRO would not be able to use a WiFi dongle without some work on the O/S which you do not normally have access to when running the ASIAIR app. I could jailbreak the ASIAIR-PRO and get into the O/S and while it would be entertaining on an inexpensive $35 R-Pi4B the ASIAIR-PRO is a $300 R-Pi4B I paid extra for just to never have to deal with any of the usual issues people using R-Pi4B computers have to deal with to make them work in this application using other software. The obvious solution was to add a small nano or travel router with better WiFi and extra Ethernet ports for the Gemini 2 which also allows me to use the same setup in the driveway of my house over the house WiFi so I can be sitting inside sleeping eating, reading surfing etc. while the ASIAIR-PRO ran the sequencer and collected data for me. For this s it is glorious!? ?
Magnus, I apologize for being dense, but what is a ¡°WiFi dongle¡±? ?Thanks Tom
-- Chip Louie Chief Daydreamer Imagination Hardware?
? ?Astropheric Weather Forecast - South Pasadena, CA?
|
Chip my astrophotography interest is similar ?to yours. ?I have the G11ii asi1600mc pro 290mc. ? I have my equipment in the garage. ?I set it up on clear nights on the driveway. ?Sounds like the ASIAIR may be a faster and simpler system for my use. ? Thanks?
|
I don't have an asiair, I've got the same rpi4 though, and I chopped the end of the flirc case off. Kind of worried that I was wrecking the thing. But in the end it works perfectly! Don't send me a bill if it doesn't work for you though!!!
|
Tim,
You gotta see this thing in action! I roll out the Losmandy on the Wheelie Bar, I point it north using the marks on the concrete driveway (blue painter's tape, my wife has issues, go figure) I level out the Wheelie Bar using the screw levelers. I fire up the battery pack and the router comes on line then I turn on the Gemini 2-mini and cold start it. I use my phone and connect to the Slate router using the Slate's IP address and then flip the power switch on the ASIAIR-PRO and verify it sees all of the peripherals it needs to talk to. In the mean time I get roughly polar aligned and then go to a bright star and do a one star alignment using the elevation and azimuth knobs to center the bright star. The I go to a second bright star and verify that I am close to centered. I cannot use the polar alignment routines in the ASIAIR-PRO because my view to the north is usually blocked by trees in the driveway. For me I have to take a little extra time to get a good PA but normally in the field or after the trees have been thinned or the winter has blown the leaves off I use a PoleMaster camera and SharpCap's PA routines which IMO are better than the PM's original app.?
Then you just pick an object and tell it to GOTO and then let the ASIAIR-PRO plate solve to center the object. Focus and pick a guide star and press play for the sequence of exposures. Go make tea to have with maybe a Biscotti or six and watch the ASIAIR-PRO collect your data for you. Of course this is simplified as I would use library files for flats and dark frames if possible. But this is pretty much all there is to this part.
--
Chip Louie Chief Daydreamer Imagination Hardware?
? ?Astropheric Weather Forecast - South Pasadena, CA?
|
Hi Brian,
The comment "off the shelf solution" was for the use of the $60 Slate nano router as the WiFi connection between the outside world and the ASIAIR-PRO. Using the wired 1Gb Ethernet port? connections means losing no speed because the ASIAIR-PRO and Slate are both 1Gb Ethernet ports which are at least twice as fast than even using a 5GHz. WiFi connection with a matching AC750 class WiFi devices. So you are effectively using the Slate as a front end to the ASIAIR-PRO and the bonus for Losmandy Gemini 2 (and AstroPhysics GTOCP4/5 users) is easy mount access over Wi-Fi or wired LAN.??
--
Chip Louie Chief Daydreamer Imagination Hardware?
? ?Astropheric Weather Forecast - South Pasadena, CA?
|
>>>
The comment "off the shelf solution" was for the use of the $60 Slate nano router as the WiFi connection?
ah yes.?
i'm 100% believer :)
thanks CHip
Hi Brian,
The comment "off the shelf solution" was for the use of the $60 Slate nano router as the WiFi connection between the outside world and the ASIAIR-PRO. Using the wired 1Gb Ethernet port? connections means losing no speed because the ASIAIR-PRO and Slate are both 1Gb Ethernet ports which are at least twice as fast than even using a 5GHz. WiFi connection with a matching AC750 class WiFi devices. So you are effectively using the Slate as a front end to the ASIAIR-PRO and the bonus for Losmandy Gemini 2 (and AstroPhysics GTOCP4/5 users) is easy mount access over Wi-Fi or wired LAN.??
--
Chip Louie Chief Daydreamer Imagination Hardware?
? ?Astropheric Weather Forecast - South Pasadena, CA?
-- Brian?
Brian Valente portfolio
|
Hi!
Yes, your solution seems nice and stable :)
Magnus
Den 2020-12-09 kl. 01:38, skrev Chip
Louie:
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
[Edited Message Follows]
[Reason: clarity ]
Hi Magnus,
Yes, R-Pi4B WiFi sucks even in the open air, this is a known issue
with the R-Pi4B boards. So when an R-Pi4B is put into a heavy
aluminum (but pretty!) case then sandwiched with a Hat designed
with a ground plane to carry current for the PWM power application
the radiated Wi-Fi RF power getting out of the box is going to be
pretty low and somewhat directional. This is what happens when you
put the WiFi antenna in a Faraday cage.
Originally I was just going to modify the R-Pi4B board by adding a
u/FL connector socket to the WiFi RF section and run a cable to an
external connector and use a high gain antenna. But that seemed a
little much for most people to attempt and it is easy to screw up
the installation due to there being a very small pad area for the
soldered down u/FL socket. Plus it required drilling the very
pretty case so instead I found a solution anybody with a credit
card with $60 left on it could do. Buy an off the shelf solution
that allows the ASIAIR-PRO to work at full speed with full power
WiFi and adds capabilities that help Gemini users like me and
other herem? on the Losmandy users group.? ? ?
Hi!
Just about "the wifi sucks". The ASIAIR-PRO has a metal
case, right? If so, that is why it sucks. Plug in a wifi
dongle and you probably have good wifi. That is what I have
with my R-Pi 4. Metal case, good for cooling, very bad for
wifi. Dongle produce high speed wifi.
Or tried and tested solution: an ethernet cable. Which is
what you do, Chip, right?
Best,
Magnus
--
Chip Louie
Chief Daydreamer Imagination Hardware?
? ?Astropheric Weather Forecast - South Pasadena, CA?
|
I use a lowly Pi 2B with Ekos, should be similar to ASI air, with a Wifi dongle.? It has never been a problem, speed is OK.? If I want more speed or if I am in the field with no router I use an ethernet cable.? I use a Galaxy Tab A to control it using VNC, I have an Ethernet to micro USB adapter so I can use Ekos via Wifi or ethernet. It has it's own KStars planetarium so I haven't tried SkySafari on it.? It has driver for OnStep, which my DIY control system.? It all works pretty well and was not difficult to get going.? If you don't need an ASI air maybe a regular Pi will work, it's cheap and you can install the latest at will.
|
Tim Kimbler
Chip Louie
Jamie Amendolagine