|
So.. New subject..
How do *you* connect up
cameras so the scope can access everything it normally can access (in the sky)..
?? My CMOS cameras both have short USB cables, which I plug into the computer
that sits on a table right next to the scope to the East of the mount.. For
Planetary imaging, for instance, this means I can only image from slightly
before the Meridian
to the Western Horizon.. I can’t image, say, 45 degrees up in the East.. When
I move and get back into Astronomy, I hope to be able to operate – i.e.
place the table – to the north of the mount, and I assume that will give
me some access to both sides of the mount, such as from 45 degrees up in the
East to 45 degrees up in the West..
??? BUT! What
does it take to get farther from the mount, say ten feet?? I have a multi port
USB hub, so do I just plug both cameras into that and then run a new USB cable
from the hub to the laptop?? And do I mount the hub to the tripod??
?
??? I ask,
because I have previously tried to run the camera with a 6’ cable instead
of the 3’ cable it came with and it dropped almost all the frames, so I
am *ASSUMING* USB has severe cable length issues???
Some
Notes.. The 6’ cable was “good”, as at the time I had two ASI
cameras and both camera cables came with them.. the ASI178 came with the 3’
and the ASI120 came with the 6’.. Since I wasn’t guiding at the
time, I could use either cable.. Also, these *ARE* USB3 cameras and my laptop
only has USB2 ports.. This hasn’t been a problem yet.. I have imaged at
200 fps, albeit not full frame, and I don’t see that transmission rates
over the USB cable would be an issue when only sending an image downline no
faster than every 60 seconds..
??? So how
would I “move away from the mount”?? What are my options?? Please
speak slowly, as “USB Hub” is the only phrase I know in this “foreign
language.. :-))
?
Derek
?
|
I use a hub at the mount and 4 usb cables plug into it...from the hub I run a 32 foot usb cable to the computer (inside the trailer) the key is it's a powered hub. It has it's own 5vdc power source and that makes it possible. Also some guide cameras (like I use a DSI guide camera) draw a lot of usb power and you probably need the extra power for that anyways. You can also (I think) buy powered usb cables. I've got 12vdc at the mount anyways so I just knock it do to 5vdc for the hub...
HTH's Stu
So.. New subject..
How do *you* connect up
cameras so the scope can access everything it normally can access (in the sky)..
?? My CMOS cameras both have short USB cables, which I plug into the computer
that sits on a table right next to the scope to the East of the mount.. For
Planetary imaging, for instance, this means I can only image from slightly
before the Meridian
to the Western Horizon.. I can’t image, say, 45 degrees up in the East.. When
I move and get back into Astronomy, I hope to be able to operate – i.e.
place the table – to the north of the mount, and I assume that will give
me some access to both sides of the mount, such as from 45 degrees up in the
East to 45 degrees up in the West..
??? BUT! What
does it take to get farther from the mount, say ten feet?? I have a multi port
USB hub, so do I just plug both cameras into that and then run a new USB cable
from the hub to the laptop?? And do I mount the hub to the tripod??
?
??? I ask,
because I have previously tried to run the camera with a 6’ cable instead
of the 3’ cable it came with and it dropped almost all the frames, so I
am *ASSUMING* USB has severe cable length issues???
Some
Notes.. The 6’ cable was “good”, as at the time I had two ASI
cameras and both camera cables came with them.. the ASI178 came with the 3’
and the ASI120 came with the 6’.. Since I wasn’t guiding at the
time, I could use either cable.. Also, these *ARE* USB3 cameras and my laptop
only has USB2 ports.. This hasn’t been a problem yet.. I have imaged at
200 fps, albeit not full frame, and I don’t see that transmission rates
over the USB cable would be an issue when only sending an image downline no
faster than every 60 seconds..
??? So how
would I “move away from the mount”?? What are my options?? Please
speak slowly, as “USB Hub” is the only phrase I know in this “foreign
language.. :-))
?
Derek
?
|
Derek,
Some cameras draw their power from the USB cables. Having a powered hub helps. I use the hub with 6' and 9' USB3 cables going to my cameras. But, I run an active USB3 cable to the hub from my computer. The hub is attached to the mount with velcro, and excess cable is coiled and attached to the tripod as well. This way, there is ample power, ports, and you don't have the mount dragging around a lot of cable (which can affect goto and tracking).
Matt
On Wed, Jan 15, 2020, 4:26 PM Stu Beaber < wd4sel@...> wrote: I use a hub at the mount and 4 usb cables plug into it...from the hub I run a 32 foot usb cable to the computer (inside the trailer) the key is it's a powered hub. It has it's own 5vdc power source and that makes it possible. Also some guide cameras (like I use a DSI guide camera) draw a lot of usb power and you probably need the extra power for that anyways. You can also (I think) buy powered usb cables. I've got 12vdc at the mount anyways so I just knock it do to 5vdc for the hub...
HTH's Stu
So.. New subject..
How do *you* connect up
cameras so the scope can access everything it normally can access (in the sky)..
?? My CMOS cameras both have short USB cables, which I plug into the computer
that sits on a table right next to the scope to the East of the mount.. For
Planetary imaging, for instance, this means I can only image from slightly
before the Meridian
to the Western Horizon.. I can’t image, say, 45 degrees up in the East.. When
I move and get back into Astronomy, I hope to be able to operate – i.e.
place the table – to the north of the mount, and I assume that will give
me some access to both sides of the mount, such as from 45 degrees up in the
East to 45 degrees up in the West..
??? BUT! What
does it take to get farther from the mount, say ten feet?? I have a multi port
USB hub, so do I just plug both cameras into that and then run a new USB cable
from the hub to the laptop?? And do I mount the hub to the tripod??
?
??? I ask,
because I have previously tried to run the camera with a 6’ cable instead
of the 3’ cable it came with and it dropped almost all the frames, so I
am *ASSUMING* USB has severe cable length issues???
Some
Notes.. The 6’ cable was “good”, as at the time I had two ASI
cameras and both camera cables came with them.. the ASI178 came with the 3’
and the ASI120 came with the 6’.. Since I wasn’t guiding at the
time, I could use either cable.. Also, these *ARE* USB3 cameras and my laptop
only has USB2 ports.. This hasn’t been a problem yet.. I have imaged at
200 fps, albeit not full frame, and I don’t see that transmission rates
over the USB cable would be an issue when only sending an image downline no
faster than every 60 seconds..
??? So how
would I “move away from the mount”?? What are my options?? Please
speak slowly, as “USB Hub” is the only phrase I know in this “foreign
language.. :-))
?
Derek
?
|
All other things being equal, a hub with a 12V power input is more likely to robustly supply 5V to the USB ports than is a hub with a 5V power input. ?Also, if one has multiple devices that draw significant USB power then it’s important to pay attention to the total power capability of the USB hub. ?Lots of them have one or more ports that can supply 1-2 amps but may only be rated at 2 or 3 amps total from all the ports. ?USB 2.0 devices are supposed to draw no more than 500mA, while USB 3.0 allows up to 900mA, but with the advent of USB-based battery chargers the power specs are sometimes not strictly observed. ? ?
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Show quoted text
Derek,
Some cameras draw their power from the USB cables. Having a powered hub helps. I use the hub with 6' and 9' USB3 cables going to my cameras. But, I run an active USB3 cable to the hub from my computer. The hub is attached to the mount with velcro, and excess cable is coiled and attached to the tripod as well. This way, there is ample power, ports, and you don't have the mount dragging around a lot of cable (which can affect goto and tracking).
Matt On Wed, Jan 15, 2020, 4:26 PM Stu Beaber < wd4sel@...> wrote: I use a hub at the mount and 4 usb cables plug into it...from the hub I run a 32 foot usb cable to the computer (inside the trailer) the key is it's a powered hub. It has it's own 5vdc power source and that makes it possible. Also some guide cameras (like I use a DSI guide camera) draw a lot of usb power and you probably need the extra power for that anyways. You can also (I think) buy powered usb cables. I've got 12vdc at the mount anyways so I just knock it do to 5vdc for the hub...
HTH's Stu
So.. New subject.. How do *you* connect up cameras so the scope can access everything it normally can access (in the sky).. ?? My CMOS cameras both have short USB cables, which I plug into the computer that sits on a table right next to the scope to the East of the mount.. For Planetary imaging, for instance, this means I can only image from slightly before the?Meridian?to the Western Horizon.. I can’t image, say, 45 degrees up in the East.. When I move and get back into Astronomy, I hope to be able to operate – i.e. place the table – to the north of the mount, and I assume that will give me some access to both sides of the mount, such as from 45 degrees up in the East to 45 degrees up in the West..? ????BUT! What does it take to get farther from the mount, say ten feet?? I have a multi port USB hub, so do I just plug both cameras into that and then run a new USB cable from the hub to the laptop?? And do I mount the hub to the tripod?? ? ????I ask, because I have previously tried to run the camera with a 6’ cable instead of the 3’ cable it came with and it dropped almost all the frames, so I am *ASSUMING* USB has severe cable length issues??? Some Notes.. The 6’ cable was “good”, as at the time I had two ASI cameras and both camera cables came with them.. the ASI178 came with the 3’ and the ASI120 came with the 6’.. Since I wasn’t guiding at the time, I could use either cable.. Also, these *ARE* USB3 cameras and my laptop only has USB2 ports.. This hasn’t been a problem yet.. I have imaged at 200 fps, albeit not full frame, and I don’t see that transmission rates over the USB cable would be an issue when only sending an image downline no faster than every 60 seconds.. ????So how would I “move away from the mount”?? What are my options?? Please speak slowly, as “USB Hub” is the only phrase I know in this “foreign language.. :-)) ? Derek ?
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Hi Derek -?
I use a powered USB3 hub (Amazon Basics) velcro’d to a dovetail attached to the top of my 9.25” SCT (photo below, I hope). On top of that hub I have a powerpole distributor for the various 12 volt connections (each fused at the distributor). Currently I power and connect to 4 cameras, two of which are imaging cameras, one for an OAG on the refractor, and one for on ONAG on the SCT. Also power/usb for two focusers and for a rotator.?
Having this rotate with the SCT allows very short power lines, and fairly short USB cables. There is a single 6 foot USB that goes from the hub to my computer, nestled between the rotating/tilt plates at the top of my pier. And a 6 foot power cable that connects to another powerpole distributor on the side of my pier. I have some crude tensioning loops that help keep those 6 foot cables from snagging during mount motions.?
Here is a photo. I have some dangling cables that aren’t yet attached for the night in that photo. ?When all are connected only the six foot USB and “12V” (nominal since I use a pair of lead acid gel batteries to power everything) cables attach to stuff off of the mount.?
Cheers — Don
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Thanks
Peoples.. For answering both questions, actually..
?
?is
the one I have.. (2 actually.. One for a backup..)
?
7
Port / USB3 / 5V / 5 AMP.. Sounds like I am on the right track, as it is “only”
for 2 cameras..
?
A
Secondary Question.. I forgot about this being a powered device.. My new
camera, the QHY178 Cool, obviously, has a cooler that runs on 12v.. Since I
also neglected to remember that “normal” USB carries power, should
I be wary of both 5v from USB and 12v for the cooler coming from separate sources
to one device causing ground loops (or similar issues) or can I ASSUME QHY
knows how to separate the two?? Maybe I need to employ my favorite Electrical
Engineer to check my method of power??
??? “Stop
being so thick Derek! Plug them in, wire them up, and enjoy! SHEESH!”
Yes,
but I would much rather let the world know I am not in sharp focus than let out
the magic blue smoke and have to buy another camera.. or computer, for that
matter.. :-))
?
Derek
?
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Show quoted text
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Les Niles
Sent: Wednesday, January 15, 2020
3:07 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [Losmandy_users_io]
Camera Wiring
?
All other things being equal, a hub with a 12V power input is more
likely to robustly supply 5V to the USB ports than is a hub with a 5V power
input. ?Also, if one has multiple devices that draw significant USB power
then it’s important to pay attention to the total power capability of the
USB hub. ?Lots of them have one or more ports that can supply 1-2 amps but
may only be rated at 2 or 3 amps total from all the ports. ?USB 2.0
devices are supposed to draw no more than 500mA, while USB 3.0 allows up to 900mA,
but with the advent of USB-based battery chargers the power specs are sometimes
not strictly observed. ? ?
?
Derek,
Some cameras draw their power from the USB cables.
Having a powered hub helps. I use the hub with 6' and 9' USB3 cables going to
my cameras. But, I run an active USB3 cable to the hub from my computer. The
hub is attached to the mount with velcro, and excess cable is coiled and
attached to the tripod as well. This way, there is ample power, ports, and you
don't have the mount dragging around a lot of cable (which can affect goto and
tracking).
?
On Wed, Jan 15, 2020, 4:26 PM Stu Beaber <wd4sel@...> wrote:
I use a hub at the mount and 4 usb cables plug into
it...from the hub I run a 32 foot usb cable to the computer (inside the
trailer) the key is it's a powered hub. It has it's own 5vdc power source and
that makes it possible. Also some guide cameras (like I use a DSI guide camera)
draw a lot of usb power and you probably need the extra power for that anyways.
You can also (I think) buy powered usb cables. I've got 12vdc at the mount
anyways so I just knock it do to 5vdc for the hub...
?
So.. New subject..
How do *you* connect up cameras so the scope can access
everything it normally can access (in the sky).. ?? My CMOS cameras both have
short USB cables, which I plug into the computer that sits on a table right
next to the scope to the East of the mount.. For Planetary imaging, for
instance, this means I can only image from slightly before the?Meridian?to the Western Horizon.. I can’t
image, say, 45 degrees up in the East.. When I move and get back into
Astronomy, I hope to be able to operate – i.e. place the table – to
the north of the mount, and I assume that will give me some access to both
sides of the mount, such as from 45 degrees up in the East to 45 degrees up in
the West..?
????BUT!
What does it take to get farther from the mount, say ten feet?? I have a multi
port USB hub, so do I just plug both cameras into that and then run a new USB
cable from the hub to the laptop?? And do I mount the hub to the tripod??
?
????I
ask, because I have previously tried to run the camera with a 6’ cable
instead of the 3’ cable it came with and it dropped almost all the
frames, so I am *ASSUMING* USB has severe cable length issues???
Some Notes.. The 6’
cable was “good”, as at the time I had two ASI cameras and both
camera cables came with them.. the ASI178 came with the 3’ and the ASI120
came with the 6’.. Since I wasn’t guiding at the time, I could use
either cable.. Also, these *ARE* USB3 cameras and my laptop only has USB2
ports.. This hasn’t been a problem yet.. I have imaged at 200 fps, albeit
not full frame, and I don’t see that transmission rates over the USB
cable would be an issue when only sending an image downline no faster than
every 60 seconds..
????So
how would I “move away from the mount”?? What are my options??
Please speak slowly, as “USB Hub” is the only phrase I know in this
“foreign language.. :-))
?
Derek
?
?
|
One has to assume that the vendor has considered isolation between the camera circuitry and the TEC. On my two QHY183s there is a separate power connection for the TEC -- which potentially can take a lot. I use a small laptop power supply to feed mine. Works great.
greg latiak
|
You would think that, but right now I’m dealing with a camera where that doesn’t seem to be the case ? B
?
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Gregory Latiak
Sent: Wednesday, January 15, 2020 4:37 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [Losmandy_users_io] Camera Wiring ? One has to assume that the vendor has considered isolation between the camera circuitry and the TEC. On my two QHY183s there is a separate power connection for the TEC -- which potentially can take a lot. I use a small laptop power supply to feed mine. Works great.
greg latiak
|
Easy ($$$). I bought longer USB cables...these are the fast 3.0 type USB for later model ASI cameras.? Still...you do have to watch where your PC is positioned!
Have fun, Michael
So.. New subject..
How do *you* connect up
cameras so the scope can access everything it normally can access (in the sky)..
?? My CMOS cameras both have short USB cables, which I plug into the computer
that sits on a table right next to the scope to the East of the mount.. For
Planetary imaging, for instance, this means I can only image from slightly
before the Meridian
to the Western Horizon.. I can’t image, say, 45 degrees up in the East.. When
I move and get back into Astronomy, I hope to be able to operate – i.e.
place the table – to the north of the mount, and I assume that will give
me some access to both sides of the mount, such as from 45 degrees up in the
East to 45 degrees up in the West..
??? BUT! What
does it take to get farther from the mount, say ten feet?? I have a multi port
USB hub, so do I just plug both cameras into that and then run a new USB cable
from the hub to the laptop?? And do I mount the hub to the tripod??
?
??? I ask,
because I have previously tried to run the camera with a 6’ cable instead
of the 3’ cable it came with and it dropped almost all the frames, so I
am *ASSUMING* USB has severe cable length issues???
Some
Notes.. The 6’ cable was “good”, as at the time I had two ASI
cameras and both camera cables came with them.. the ASI178 came with the 3’
and the ASI120 came with the 6’.. Since I wasn’t guiding at the
time, I could use either cable.. Also, these *ARE* USB3 cameras and my laptop
only has USB2 ports.. This hasn’t been a problem yet.. I have imaged at
200 fps, albeit not full frame, and I don’t see that transmission rates
over the USB cable would be an issue when only sending an image downline no
faster than every 60 seconds..
??? So how
would I “move away from the mount”?? What are my options?? Please
speak slowly, as “USB Hub” is the only phrase I know in this “foreign
language.. :-))
?
Derek
?
|
Also: add a good USB3.0 powered hub with a long USB cable to that too.
For reliable use, you must get one with the big USB3.0 connector like the ASI cameras use. The mini USB 3.0 thin flat connector starts to fail under cold damp conditions...it was intended for indoor use where there is no mechanical stress on the connection.?
Best regards,
Easy ($$$). I bought longer USB cables...these are the fast 3.0 type USB for later model ASI cameras.? Still...you do have to watch where your PC is positioned!
Have fun, Michael
So.. New subject..
How do *you* connect up
cameras so the scope can access everything it normally can access (in the sky)..
?? My CMOS cameras both have short USB cables, which I plug into the computer
that sits on a table right next to the scope to the East of the mount.. For
Planetary imaging, for instance, this means I can only image from slightly
before the Meridian
to the Western Horizon.. I can’t image, say, 45 degrees up in the East.. When
I move and get back into Astronomy, I hope to be able to operate – i.e.
place the table – to the north of the mount, and I assume that will give
me some access to both sides of the mount, such as from 45 degrees up in the
East to 45 degrees up in the West..
??? BUT! What
does it take to get farther from the mount, say ten feet?? I have a multi port
USB hub, so do I just plug both cameras into that and then run a new USB cable
from the hub to the laptop?? And do I mount the hub to the tripod??
?
??? I ask,
because I have previously tried to run the camera with a 6’ cable instead
of the 3’ cable it came with and it dropped almost all the frames, so I
am *ASSUMING* USB has severe cable length issues???
Some
Notes.. The 6’ cable was “good”, as at the time I had two ASI
cameras and both camera cables came with them.. the ASI178 came with the 3’
and the ASI120 came with the 6’.. Since I wasn’t guiding at the
time, I could use either cable.. Also, these *ARE* USB3 cameras and my laptop
only has USB2 ports.. This hasn’t been a problem yet.. I have imaged at
200 fps, albeit not full frame, and I don’t see that transmission rates
over the USB cable would be an issue when only sending an image downline no
faster than every 60 seconds..
??? So how
would I “move away from the mount”?? What are my options?? Please
speak slowly, as “USB Hub” is the only phrase I know in this “foreign
language.. :-))
?
Derek
?
|
#1 best thing i did was get a small nuc-style computer and mounted it on top of my telescope. life has never been easier
#2 best thing was to switch to anderson powerpoles, so i can run one power cable up and have power distro on top of the camera
There are some excellent DIY-type solutions that complete can less than $300 for the computer, powerpole distro, and a wifi router as well
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I'm a one wire guy.
I have a (12V). (A 4 port can work, but I have delusions of grandeur and filter wheels and expansion... but in reality, I use 4 ports on my hub.)
My cameras plug into it (I got short USB2 Male A to Male B cables), and a single 12 foot USB cable comes off my mount to my computer.
I also have a single 12V wire to power my Atik Infinity, the hub, the mount, and my focuser.
So, everything the computer runs, runs through that single USB cable.
When I first began, I ran a loom of wires off the mount. But I got smarter as I went along and instead of a hub near the computer, I moved the hub near the work. And a single USB cable to my computer.
I also tried one of those NUC type computers. But dang near wore a path without a display at the mount. So I got a Dell 2 in 1 so I'd have a display at the mount, as well as the WiFi to my inside computer.
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A lot of great answers. ?I did a video on this if it helps. ?
Good luck and keep shooting
Sean
|
Michael Herman