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Polar Alignment Routine
开云体育Tim, Google up "Kenko polar finder instructions" if you are going use the Losmandy Polar alignment scope. Then I do a drift alignment I'm only visual. I think otherwise most people here on this Group use
Sharpcap or Pole Master.?
"HAPPY SKIES AND KEEP LOOKING UP" Deric
Sent from my Galaxy Tab A
-------- Original message --------
From: "Tim Kimbler via groups.io" <tkimbler@...>
Date: 5/9/20 7:00 AM (GMT-06:00)
Subject: [Losmandy_users_io] Polar Alignment Routine
Folks looking to buy a G11 with Gemini. ?I looked through the manual on line. ? Couldn’t find a polar alignment routine. ?Is there a routine for accurate polar alignment? ? Thanks?
-- Tim Kimbler |
开云体育Tim, on a basic level Polar align. I center up Polaris right where all the lines converge in the polar scope.I Goto bright Star center it in the eyepiece using the hand controler, (do not touch the Alt Az knobs after polar align) Then I go to
menu, hit align then alighnment and your off. You can do model building also two stars West one star East for better accuracy. The basic routine gets me close enough that my target will be in my eyepiece and I just center it up.
HAPPY SKIES Deric
Sent from my Galaxy Tab A
-------- Original message --------
From: "Tim Kimbler via groups.io" <tkimbler@...>
Date: 5/9/20 7:53 AM (GMT-06:00)
Subject: Re: [Losmandy_users_io] Polar Alignment Routine
I sold my CGEM which had a routine in the hand controller. ?After a two star alignment you could goto a star then use the mount RA Dec adjustments to center it. ?I was wondering if Gemini had something like that. ?I think it’s called all sky align in the
CGEM hand controller. ?Thanks?
|
开云体育Give up on polar scope, - just stick a camera in the finder scope and use SharpCap – way simple to use and accurate. ? David ? From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Deric Caselli
Sent: 09 May 2020 14:10 To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [Losmandy_users_io] Polar Alignment Routine ? Tim, on a basic level Polar align. I center up Polaris right where all the lines converge in the polar scope.I Goto bright Star center it in the eyepiece using the hand controler, (do not touch the Alt Az knobs after polar align) Then I go to menu, hit align then alighnment and your off. You can do model building also two stars West one star East for better accuracy. The basic routine gets me close enough that my target will be in my eyepiece and I just center it up. HAPPY SKIES Deric ? ? ? Sent from my Galaxy Tab A ? ? ? -------- Original message -------- From: "Tim Kimbler via groups.io" <tkimbler@...> Date: 5/9/20 7:53 AM (GMT-06:00) Subject: Re: [Losmandy_users_io] Polar Alignment Routine ? I sold my CGEM which had a routine in the hand controller. ?After a two star alignment you could goto a star then use the mount RA Dec adjustments to center it. ?I was wondering if Gemini had something like that. ?I think it’s called all sky align in the CGEM hand controller. ?Thanks? |
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-------- Original message --------
From: Deric Caselli <JethroStCyr@...>
Date: 5/9/20 8:09 AM (GMT-06:00)
Subject: Re: [Losmandy_users_io] Polar Alignment Routine
Tim, on a basic level Polar align. I center up Polaris right where all the lines converge in the polar scope.I Goto bright Star center it in the eyepiece using the hand controler, (do not touch the Alt Az knobs after polar align) Then I go to
menu, hit align then alighnment and your off. You can do model building also two stars West one star East for better accuracy. The basic routine gets me close enough that my target will be in my eyepiece and I just center it up.
HAPPY SKIES Deric
Sent from my Galaxy Tab A
-------- Original message --------
From: "Tim Kimbler via groups.io" <tkimbler@...>
Date: 5/9/20 7:53 AM (GMT-06:00)
Subject: Re: [Losmandy_users_io] Polar Alignment Routine
I sold my CGEM which had a routine in the hand controller. ?After a two star alignment you could goto a star then use the mount RA Dec adjustments to center it. ?I was wondering if Gemini had something like that. ?I think it’s called all sky align in the
CGEM hand controller. ?Thanks?
|
Hi Tim yes there is a polar alignment routine built into Gemini That being said, the third party options for polar alignment are so good nowadays, it would probably be easier and more accurate to use one of those, from inexpensive to free sharpcap polemaster PHD etc On Sat, May 9, 2020 at 5:00 AM Tim Kimbler via <tkimbler=[email protected]> wrote: Folks looking to buy a G11 with Gemini.? I looked through the manual on line. ? Couldn’t find a polar alignment routine.? Is there a routine for accurate polar alignment? ? Thanks? --
Brian? Brian Valente portfolio |
Hi Tim Yes, Gemini has an alignment routine, i think they are all very similar Brian On Sat, May 9, 2020 at 5:53 AM Tim Kimbler via <tkimbler=[email protected]> wrote: I sold my CGEM which had a routine in the hand controller.? After a two star alignment you could goto a star then use the mount RA Dec adjustments to center it.? I was wondering if Gemini had something like that.? I think it’s called all sky align in the CGEM hand controller.? Thanks? --
Brian? Brian Valente portfolio |
Deric FYI polaris is not a good target to align on - it's at the pole Also that alignment process is different than polar alignment polar align = adjust alt/az physical adjustments until it's aligned with the pole. there's no need to 'align' on polaris for this model building = use the alignment feature inside Gemini. this models the sky for accurate gotos If you are just polar aligning i would skip the 'align' in gemini.? On Sat, May 9, 2020 at 6:09 AM Deric Caselli <JethroStCyr@...> wrote:
--
Brian? Brian Valente portfolio |
or you can even just use the imaging scope! On Sat, May 9, 2020 at 6:44 AM David C. Partridge <david.partridge@...> wrote:
--
Brian? Brian Valente portfolio |
Sonny Edmonds
I can only speak for my limited experience with my fairly new Gemini 2 on my GM811G HD.
Yes, there is a PA routine. For me, it has not worked. It tells me to pick two stars, then goes to star #1. Then adjust the ALT and AZ with the adjusters on the mount, which I do with great accuracies using the view through my telescope and my main imaging camera. Then I OK that and the mount goes to the second star. Same routine, same dead on accuracy. Then mine goes back to star 1, and wants the adjustments. Then it goes to star 2 and wants that dialed in. Then back to 1, then back to 2, then back to 1, then back to 2, then back to 1, then back to 2, then back to 1, then back to 2, then back to 1, then back to 2... ad nausium. Because it just sticks into a loop of wearing out me and the adjusters. So I've bought into SharpCap, and was using that. But my old method seems to be working fine. This will blow some minds.... I start off making sure I have Polaris centered in my main telescope (Not my guide scope, the Main Telescope.) Because my main telescope's aim is what I want accurate. OK, good there. Then I do my Modeling (Alignment is Asian dialect). I will typically do >3 stars East, then do >3 stars West, then check East stars again. I actually enjoy doing these elongated alignments to see when my mount and telescope are getting as close as possible to Bulls Eyeing any given target star. And eventually I'm satisfied it's as good as I can get it. Then it's off to the Rodeo, and hopping around, or sitting down on a Nebula and sucking the light out of it. But that is my kind of Polar Alignment. Which is basically find Polaris, and teach the mount where it is. I am working on Plate Solving as well. -- SonnyE (I suggest viewed in full screen) |
are you and Deric comparing notes? :) Just to clarify, the alignment routines for building a pointing model ('align' in gemini hand controller) is completely separate from polar alignment. The 'go to star 1, go to star 2' is the built in drift align for polar alignment, but as you said the other options are becoming easier and more accurate.? On Sat, May 9, 2020 at 8:53 AM Sonny Edmonds <sonnyedmonds@...> wrote: I can only speak for my limited experience with my fairly new Gemini 2 on my GM811G HD. --
Brian? Brian Valente portfolio |
开云体育There is a built-in polar alignment aid on the Gemini II. Gemini II PAC This method requires that you ‘model’ 4 stars. ?After you do this, a new button appears on the modeling screen for ‘PAC’. ?PAC will use the data from the alignment of the stars you just modeled to calculate your polar alignment error. ?It will cause the mount to move off the last star you centered to the position where the star WOULD be located *IF* the mount had a precise polar alignment. ?At that point you put the hand-controller down and use the mount’s adjustment knobs to re-center the star … then press the “done” button on the Gemini II when you’ve finished. ?At that point you should have a fairly good polar alignment. If doing this with an eyepiece, it’s probably best to use a reticle eyepiece with a cross-hair to make sure the star actually *is* centered and not just a guess that it seems centered (because any error in your accuracy will translate to a less accurate polar alignment). ?You could also do this with a camera. Losmandy Polar Scope If you use the optional Losmandy Polar Scope, there are markings to align Polaris and a couple other stars. ?The etched reticle has markings to show the general direction of Big Dipper asterism and Cassiopeia. ? ?You rotate the scope in RA to get the polar scope roughly oriented correctly. ?You place Polaris in the marked position in the reticle and then check the positions of a couple of secondary stars which also have marked positions in the reticle. ?But since the orientation of the reticle was just a rough approximation, they probably wont “fit” the template. ?You’ll have to adjust the RA a little, then re-adjust the altitude & azimuth again to try for a better fit. ?And you keep doing this until you’re satisfied with the result. ?It’s iterative and my frustration with this is that I’m kneeling down while trying to look up and probably need to see a chiropractor after achieving alignment. Losmandy Polar Scope with PS Align Pro There’s is an iOS app called “Polar Scope Align Pro” or “PS Align Pro” … I think it’s $1.99 (but don’t hold me to that) and it has lots of setup aids. ? One particular aid is the ability to get to the correct alignment of the reticle pretty quickly. ?The app has lots of polar scope reticles, you have to pick the Kenko reticle (it’s actually called “Kenko Skymemo RS”) to get the reticle that matches the current Losmandy scopes. ? ?Having done this, rotate the scope in RA until the Polaris line in the reticle is straight up/down (verticle). ?You can adjust the altitude knob on the mount to make sure Polaris glides up and down along this line. ? ?Next, in the app, tap ?the “Set zero position” and a sub-menu asks you to read the current RA value on the scope’s setting circle. ? ?Enter the value and click ‘done’. ? Back on the main screen it will now provide a “Zero Adjusted” RA time. ?Rotate the mount in RA to the zero-adjusted value (watching the setting circle on the mount). ?That’s it… your polar alignment reticle is now *perfectly* adjusted. ?Look through the polar scope and center Polar in the correct position (adjusting the mount to center Polaris) and the other two stars should be spot-on as well. ?This takes the guesswork out of having to rotate the scope in RA while adjusting the knobs to try to get a good “fit” of the stars because it uses the local hour angle and your setting circles to get the polar scope into the correct orientation based on your location, date, and time. This app has a lot of cool features that I really like. ?Its downside is that the documentation is rather lacking. ?It took me a long time to work out all the cool things the app can do once you learn its secrets. ?HOWEVER… once I learned the trick, the app makes using the Losmandy Polar Scope *much* faster and a bit more accurate. There are loads and loads of polar alignment methods, software-based solutions that use cameras, etc. ?The QHY-CCD “PoleMaster” is extremely popular (most of the astro-imagers that I know who do *not* own observatories (those who have to setup and align *every* time they want to do some imaging) seem to own one of these. ?The downside is it’s just a little over $300 for the system. ?There are other software solutions that use your existing cameras and image through the scope to resolve the celestial north pole and have you perform the alignment with the upside being no extra gear to buy since it uses existing gear, but the downside being that the view through the scope is probably fairly narrow — your initial guess for pole position needs to be a lot closer or the pole wont be anywhere in the field of view. Clear Skies, Tim
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开云体育My own experience with using that is that you keep going round and round in never diminishing circles (a bit like the oozlum-oozlum bird) and never achieve convergence ? One reason I switched to SharpCap. ? David ? From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Timothy Campbell via groups.io
Sent: 09 May 2020 18:09 To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [Losmandy_users_io] Polar Alignment Routine ? There is a built-in polar alignment aid on the Gemini II. ? Gemini II PAC ? Here’s the YouTube video for Polar Alignment Correction built into the Gemini II. ? ? This method requires that you ‘model’ 4 stars. ?After you do this, a new button appears on the modeling screen for ‘PAC’. ?PAC will use the data from the alignment of the stars you just modeled to calculate your polar alignment error. ?It will cause the mount to move off the last star you centered to the position where the star WOULD be located *IF* the mount had a precise polar alignment. ?At that point you put the hand-controller down and use the mount’s adjustment knobs to re-center the star … then press the “done” button on the Gemini II when you’ve finished. ?At that point you should have a fairly good polar alignment. ? If doing this with an eyepiece, it’s probably best to use a reticle eyepiece with a cross-hair to make sure the star actually *is* centered and not just a guess that it seems centered (because any error in your accuracy will translate to a less accurate polar alignment). ?You could also do this with a camera. ? Losmandy Polar Scope ? If you use the optional Losmandy Polar Scope, there are markings to align Polaris and a couple other stars. ?The etched reticle has markings to show the general direction of Big Dipper asterism and Cassiopeia. ? ?You rotate the scope in RA to get the polar scope roughly oriented correctly. ?You place Polaris in the marked position in the reticle and then check the positions of a couple of secondary stars which also have marked positions in the reticle. ?But since the orientation of the reticle was just a rough approximation, they probably wont “fit” the template. ?You’ll have to adjust the RA a little, then re-adjust the altitude & azimuth again to try for a better fit. ?And you keep doing this until you’re satisfied with the result. ?It’s iterative and my frustration with this is that I’m kneeling down while trying to look up and probably need to see a chiropractor after achieving alignment. ? Losmandy Polar Scope with PS Align Pro ? There’s is an iOS app called “Polar Scope Align Pro” or “PS Align Pro” … I think it’s $1.99 (but don’t hold me to that) and it has lots of setup aids. ? ? One particular aid is the ability to get to the correct alignment of the reticle pretty quickly. ?The app has lots of polar scope reticles, you have to pick the Kenko reticle (it’s actually called “Kenko Skymemo RS”) to get the reticle that matches the current Losmandy scopes. ? ?Having done this, rotate the scope in RA until the Polaris line in the reticle is straight up/down (verticle). ?You can adjust the altitude knob on the mount to make sure Polaris glides up and down along this line. ? ?Next, in the app, tap ?the “Set zero position” and a sub-menu asks you to read the current RA value on the scope’s setting circle. ? ?Enter the value and click ‘done’. ? Back on the main screen it will now provide a “Zero Adjusted” RA time. ?Rotate the mount in RA to the zero-adjusted value (watching the setting circle on the mount). ?That’s it… your polar alignment reticle is now *perfectly* adjusted. ?Look through the polar scope and center Polar in the correct position (adjusting the mount to center Polaris) and the other two stars should be spot-on as well. ?This takes the guesswork out of having to rotate the scope in RA while adjusting the knobs to try to get a good “fit” of the stars because it uses the local hour angle and your setting circles to get the polar scope into the correct orientation based on your location, date, and time. ? This app has a lot of cool features that I really like. ?Its downside is that the documentation is rather lacking. ?It took me a long time to work out all the cool things the app can do once you learn its secrets. ?HOWEVER… once I learned the trick, the app makes using the Losmandy Polar Scope *much* faster and a bit more accurate. ? ? ? There are loads and loads of polar alignment methods, software-based solutions that use cameras, etc. ?The QHY-CCD “PoleMaster” is extremely popular (most of the astro-imagers that I know who do *not* own observatories (those who have to setup and align *every* time they want to do some imaging) seem to own one of these. ?The downside is it’s just a little over $300 for the system. ?There are other software solutions that use your existing cameras and image through the scope to resolve the celestial north pole and have you perform the alignment with the upside being no extra gear to buy since it uses existing gear, but the downside being that the view through the scope is probably fairly narrow — your initial guess for pole position needs to be a lot closer or the pole wont be anywhere in the field of view. ? ? Clear Skies, Tim ? ? ? On May 9, 2020, at 8:00 AM, Tim Kimbler via <tkimbler@...> wrote: ? Folks looking to buy a G11 with Gemini. ?I looked through the manual on line. ? Couldn’t find a polar alignment routine. ?Is there a routine for accurate polar alignment? ? Thanks? ? |
开云体育Brian I may have misstated, I don't Align on Polaris.I usually align on Capella. Sirius or what ever.
So far all is,well after my last self induced issue. Thanks all the help Brian, sorry for being a pain in the arse.?
"HAPPY SKIES AND KEEP LOOKING UP"?
Deric
Sent from my Boost Mobile Phone.
-------- Original message --------
From: Brian Valente <bvalente@...>
Date: 5/9/20 10:27 AM (GMT-06:00)
Subject: Re: [Losmandy_users_io] Polar Alignment Routine
Deric
FYI polaris is not a good target to align on - it's at the pole
Also that alignment process is different than polar alignment
polar align = adjust alt/az physical adjustments until it's aligned with the pole. there's no need to 'align' on polaris for this
model building = use the alignment feature inside Gemini. this models the sky for accurate gotos
If you are just polar aligning i would skip the 'align' in gemini.?
On Sat, May 9, 2020 at 6:09 AM Deric Caselli <JethroStCyr@...> wrote:
Brian?
Brian Valente
portfolio
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开云体育On 9 May 2020, at 10:08, Timothy Campbell via <tim.campbell@...> wrote:
? -Les |
Perfect On Sat, May 9, 2020 at 10:59 AM Deric Caselli <JethroStCyr@...> wrote:
--
Brian? Brian Valente portfolio |
Actually - I think the sky is fixed (roughly).? The model is a mathematical approximation of the errors in the mount. On Sat, May 9, 2020 at 8:27 AM Brian Valente <bvalente@...> wrote:
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they are very similar; some are simple and hence correct for limited error terms in the mount; I have an EQ6-R and its modeling is much simpler than the G11 Handcontroller modeling (seperate?terms for both sides of the mount orientation, and numerous error terms).? But best?investment is accurate polar alignment?(everything pales IMHO). On Sat, May 9, 2020 at 8:24 AM Brian Valente <bvalente@...> wrote:
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