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Almost a new owner.... Getting it through my thick head.

Sonny Edmonds
 

Hi all,
So I've been playing and replaying the Gemini Videos, and came up with a question about how you do alignments, VS: how I figured out to do mine from before. Please bare with me.
I use to leave my mount set up and Polar Aligned to the NCP. That way I could carry out my Telescope (ready to plug in and go), then carry out my Laptop (AKA Baby Dell). Connect and open? Celestron (now scrubbed), PHD2, Atik Camera, Focuser, and Stellarium.
OK, Primary systems ready to go. Before anything else, I would check to see where Polaris was in relation to my Main Telescope Cameras cross hairs. And change the pressures on my Elevation to center it up. Then forge ahead into the alignment procedure. Doing a 2 + 4 star alignment. Reason being, I felt it gave the mount more to work with for greater accuracy. (The last 2 stars were usually very close to centered.)
OK, my old way.

Now the new way with Scott. It sort of runs backward to my old ways, and allows the mount (Gemini) to build it's reference from one star, or two stars, "or as many as you like." S.L., and ultimately back to Polaris). I'm good with that. I'll figure it out when the time comes.
I'm curious how many of you do a single star, per the video, or add additional stars? And does a single star really give you the accuracy you want for your use? (For me, I image, so desire an extreme of accuracy I have had to center up, then lock PHD2 to guiding on. At that point, I get pinpoint stars.)
Forgive me, But I'm trying to train my brain for a jump start.
And trying to grasp the Modeling part as well. But that is for another time. I think I've got it.

Have fun at your Super Bowl Parties!
The wife and I are going to the movies while everybody is pre-occupied... Heh, heh.
 

¿ªÔÆÌåÓý

I have consistently used two stars on each side. The first should be as far to the South East as possible. Likewise on the West, it should be as far South West as possible. Then the 2nd should be in the North East and North west. It probably helps if you can put a third start while doing each side ?that is slightly past the meridian on ?each side/ This will ?aid the alignment since most Losmandy G11¡¯s with their telescope have cone error.

?

?

Aubrey

?

From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of Sonny Edmonds
Sent: Sunday, February 02, 2020 1:12 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: [Losmandy_users_io] Almost a new owner.... Getting it through my thick head.

?

Hi all,
So I've been playing and replaying the Gemini Videos, and came up with a question about how you do alignments, VS: how I figured out to do mine from before. Please bare with me.
I use to leave my mount set up and Polar Aligned to the NCP. That way I could carry out my Telescope (ready to plug in and go), then carry out my Laptop (AKA Baby Dell). Connect and open? Celestron (now scrubbed), PHD2, Atik Camera, Focuser, and Stellarium.
OK, Primary systems ready to go. Before anything else, I would check to see where Polaris was in relation to my Main Telescope Cameras cross hairs. And change the pressures on my Elevation to center it up. Then forge ahead into the alignment procedure. Doing a 2 + 4 star alignment. Reason being, I felt it gave the mount more to work with for greater accuracy. (The last 2 stars were usually very close to centered.)
OK, my old way.

Now the new way with Scott. It sort of runs backward to my old ways, and allows the mount (Gemini) to build it's reference from one star, or two stars, "or as many as you like." S.L., and ultimately back to Polaris). I'm good with that. I'll figure it out when the time comes.
I'm curious how many of you do a single star, per the video, or add additional stars? And does a single star really give you the accuracy you want for your use? (For me, I image, so desire an extreme of accuracy I have had to center up, then lock PHD2 to guiding on. At that point, I get pinpoint stars.)
Forgive me, But I'm trying to train my brain for a jump start.
And trying to grasp the Modeling part as well. But that is for another time. I think I've got it.

Have fun at your Super Bowl Parties!
The wife and I are going to the movies while everybody is pre-occupied... Heh, heh.

 

¿ªÔÆÌåÓý

Two things.. You image so you should know this, but Polaris is not all that close to the NCP.. I only point that out for any lurking Newbie¡¯s.. Also, leaving the tripod setup and removing the scope and mount and replacing it when you want to use it is exactly what I wish to do but haven¡¯t tried yet to see how well it will work..

??? But this question you ask..

***

I'm curious how many of you do a single star, per the video, or add additional stars? (For me, I image, so desire an extreme of accuracy I have had to center up, then lock PHD2 to guiding on. At that point, I get pinpoint stars.)
***

I use one star all the time..

***

And does a single star really give you the accuracy you want for your use?

AND

Forgive me, But I'm trying to train my brain

***

Training the brain..

?

OK.. First of two subjects.. If you are perfectly polar aligned, then the trick is only to find your target, since once you find it, you can image it (or view it).. My setup is pretty well drift aligned and doesn¡¯t move.. If you go mobile or otherwise setup and tear down each time, you need to get reasonably well aligned for visual, or quite well for imaging.. See PoleMaster etc..

?

Second subject is alignment.. Your goal for the viewing is important here.. If you wish to put the Mark 1 eyeball to an ocular, then you would want to build a model on both sides of the mount with many stars so you can do a Goto any object you want..

??? If you want to image one (or a few) objects over the course of an evening ¨C like I aim to do ¨C then you only need to be able to find your targets.. I use one star, synch on it, and goto my target.. I repeat this for all objects.. I don¡¯t have a model ¨C all my model parameters show zeros..

I can explain it, but I don¡¯t think anyone is interested in doing it this way..

?

Derek

?

From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Sonny Edmonds
Sent: Sunday, February 02, 2020 11:12 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: [Losmandy_users_io] Almost a new owner.... Getting it through my thick head.

?

Hi all,
So I've been playing and replaying the Gemini Videos, and came up with a question about how you do alignments, VS: how I figured out to do mine from before. Please bare with me.
I use to leave my mount set up and Polar Aligned to the NCP. That way I could carry out my Telescope (ready to plug in and go), then carry out my Laptop (AKA Baby Dell). Connect and open? Celestron (now scrubbed), PHD2, Atik Camera, Focuser, and Stellarium.
OK, Primary systems ready to go. Before anything else, I would check to see where Polaris was in relation to my Main Telescope Cameras cross hairs. And change the pressures on my Elevation to center it up. Then forge ahead into the alignment procedure. Doing a 2 + 4 star alignment. Reason being, I felt it gave the mount more to work with for greater accuracy. (The last 2 stars were usually very close to centered.)
OK, my old way.

Now the new way with Scott. It sort of runs backward to my old ways, and allows the mount (Gemini) to build it's reference from one star, or two stars, "or as many as you like." S.L., and ultimately back to Polaris). I'm good with that. I'll figure it out when the time comes.
I'm curious how many of you do a single star, per the video, or add additional stars? And does a single star really give you the accuracy you want for your use? (For me, I image, so desire an extreme of accuracy I have had to center up, then lock PHD2 to guiding on. At that point, I get pinpoint stars.)
Forgive me, But I'm trying to train my brain for a jump start.
And trying to grasp the Modeling part as well. But that is for another time. I think I've got it.

Have fun at your Super Bowl Parties!
The wife and I are going to the movies while everybody is pre-occupied... Heh, heh.

?

Virus-free.

 

Sonny if you have a computer and are connected to your camera, I"d suggest just plate solving. you don't need to build multi-star models with alignments, etc.

problem solved

if you are visual observer, then my experience is 3 stars on each side is the most accurate. It gets more accurate the more alignments you do, but 3 is the threshold at which polar align errors are corrected for


Brian
Sonny Edmonds
 

Aubrey, Sounds good?and logical to me. Celestron's method never made sense. It just flopped around like a fish on a deck. But it worked. Or I learned to work it.

Derek, Yes, I know Polaris isn't within walking distance of the NCP, but it is the closest star. So good to use for reference. I do hope to eventually narrow it down. Anyone who has shot star trails (Hand in the air here) has seen Polaris circles. Just it circles the closest of what we have for reference. ;^) LOL!
Actually, I used to leave the mount and tripod set, and retained what PA I had with it. Only removing my Telescope and its stuff and leaving the connecting cords/wires with the mount. But since the Losmandy only has the Dec and RA cords, I was thinking like you about Pulling the Head. But I know from experience that the more that is disturbed, the more there is to correct the next use. Ergo, why I decided my split point was going to be the Vixen bar/clamp. It actually works pretty well, even though it isn't what I would call a precision joint. Things do come back pretty close.
Which brings me to "Perfectly Polar Aligned", Not going to happen. At least not on a tripod. And I have to wonder about if even on a pier. I think there would or could be variations. And the higher the magnifications (say a C-11) the more nerve racking it could become, from night to night. Hense, why I always started with adjusting my PA, ever so slightly, but yep every night. So "Perfect" doesn't exist. Pretty darn close does, but I never saw Perfectly in anything. I always worked towards it, but never saw it.
But the way Scott Losmandy covers it, the Gemini does as well as anything else without a Polar Scope, or a PoleMaster. You correct the aim and the Gemini II remembers the location. I'm not sure how, but that's what I get out of it. Center the star, push the appropriate buttons, and move to the next star.
Just new stuff to learn.

Brian, So far Plate solving hasn't worked out for me. But heck, there's other things that didn't work out for me that does work for others. Shrug! ;^)
When beginning, there were times I'd do many alignments just trying to get myself trained at it, and to see how good I could get it. But I was fighting a bad mount, and a bad Main Camera. Turned out my alignment and guiding were spot on, when I did get a decent camera. Even if I failed a lot, I learned. I enjoyed even the most frustrating nights.
I have both the Guide Camera and my Main Camera hooked up to my Baby Dell. So doggone it, Plate solving, SharpCap, and even Cart du Ciel?should work but not so far, not for me.
Stellarium has worked great for me, so I don't need to build sky charts. It can run the old AVX, and slew to objects.
But after about 4700 Polar Alignments, and not ever moving my mount. I got down to just changing pressure to get my old mount aligned.
LOL! I took down the old AVX tripod yesterday and had to use pliers to help get the leg screws loosened. Yep, they'd about grown roots. LOL!
I tore it down finally to set up my telescope for visual with the 8 year old Grandson who spent the night. We had some fun looking at different stars and the Moon.

Does anybody have the Email addresses for the Losmandy folks? I tried via the Technical Support @ Losmandy, but no reply as of yet. Maybe I'll call tomorrow. I have to correct this no mount situation. I'm sick of sitting in the house.
 

>>> Does anybody have the Email addresses for the Losmandy folks? I tried via the Technical Support @ Losmandy, but no reply as of yet. Maybe I'll call tomorrow. I have to correct this no mount situation. I'm sick of sitting in the house.

they are just coming back from a show in UK, so maybe give it a day or two. I think they are back tuesday

Also i'd say get cracking on making plate solve work! if you are going to image, you are going to need all that stuff working for you, not against you lol

Brian

On Sun, Feb 2, 2020 at 6:58 PM Sonny Edmonds <sonnyedmonds@...> wrote:
Aubrey, Sounds good?and logical to me. Celestron's method never made sense. It just flopped around like a fish on a deck. But it worked. Or I learned to work it.

Derek, Yes, I know Polaris isn't within walking distance of the NCP, but it is the closest star. So good to use for reference. I do hope to eventually narrow it down. Anyone who has shot star trails (Hand in the air here) has seen Polaris circles. Just it circles the closest of what we have for reference. ;^) LOL!
Actually, I used to leave the mount and tripod set, and retained what PA I had with it. Only removing my Telescope and its stuff and leaving the connecting cords/wires with the mount. But since the Losmandy only has the Dec and RA cords, I was thinking like you about Pulling the Head. But I know from experience that the more that is disturbed, the more there is to correct the next use. Ergo, why I decided my split point was going to be the Vixen bar/clamp. It actually works pretty well, even though it isn't what I would call a precision joint. Things do come back pretty close.
Which brings me to "Perfectly Polar Aligned", Not going to happen. At least not on a tripod. And I have to wonder about if even on a pier. I think there would or could be variations. And the higher the magnifications (say a C-11) the more nerve racking it could become, from night to night. Hense, why I always started with adjusting my PA, ever so slightly, but yep every night. So "Perfect" doesn't exist. Pretty darn close does, but I never saw Perfectly in anything. I always worked towards it, but never saw it.
But the way Scott Losmandy covers it, the Gemini does as well as anything else without a Polar Scope, or a PoleMaster. You correct the aim and the Gemini II remembers the location. I'm not sure how, but that's what I get out of it. Center the star, push the appropriate buttons, and move to the next star.
Just new stuff to learn.

Brian, So far Plate solving hasn't worked out for me. But heck, there's other things that didn't work out for me that does work for others. Shrug! ;^)
When beginning, there were times I'd do many alignments just trying to get myself trained at it, and to see how good I could get it. But I was fighting a bad mount, and a bad Main Camera. Turned out my alignment and guiding were spot on, when I did get a decent camera. Even if I failed a lot, I learned. I enjoyed even the most frustrating nights.
I have both the Guide Camera and my Main Camera hooked up to my Baby Dell. So doggone it, Plate solving, SharpCap, and even Cart du Ciel?should work but not so far, not for me.
Stellarium has worked great for me, so I don't need to build sky charts. It can run the old AVX, and slew to objects.
But after about 4700 Polar Alignments, and not ever moving my mount. I got down to just changing pressure to get my old mount aligned.
LOL! I took down the old AVX tripod yesterday and had to use pliers to help get the leg screws loosened. Yep, they'd about grown roots. LOL!
I tore it down finally to set up my telescope for visual with the 8 year old Grandson who spent the night. We had some fun looking at different stars and the Moon.

Does anybody have the Email addresses for the Losmandy folks? I tried via the Technical Support @ Losmandy, but no reply as of yet. Maybe I'll call tomorrow. I have to correct this no mount situation. I'm sick of sitting in the house.



--
Brian?



Brian Valente
portfolio

Sonny Edmonds
 
Edited

Can I do anything without a mount?
I mean, besides searching Youtube and such.

Thanks Brian!

Edit In:
I have Sharpcap 3.2.6194 64 bit, and AstroTortilla now on both computers.
I suppose I can choke it down if it works. 8^0
But have to have a mount, and my telescope camera hooked up. Drat!
 

¿ªÔÆÌåÓý

Derek and Brian, I dont know really why this has worked for me. I set my tripod pointed North by compass, then used the polar scope ( I can't see the other polar alignment stars most of the time) so I just centered Polaris right in the center of the line convergence in the polar scope? then aligned on bright star. I had very clear skies last night and the only clear skies for the next week, so you know were I was for the Superbowl LOL...When I went to GoTo the mount was right on target it tracked the Moon perfectly (visual) for more than two hours, waiting for Orion and M42 to crest the tree line, then to Sirus to do a collimation on my SCT. I spent the rest of the night star hopping. The GoTo fuction worked just fine.? What I am not sure is, I think Gemini remembers from use to use and I guess it keeps learning or I have just been lucky. Happy skies



Sent from my Galaxy Tab A



-------- Original message --------
From: Brian Valente <bvalente@...>
Date: 2/2/20 9:02 PM (GMT-06:00)
Subject: Re: [Losmandy_users_io] Almost a new owner.... Getting it through my thick head.

>>> Does anybody have the Email addresses for the Losmandy folks? I tried via the Technical Support @ Losmandy, but no reply as of yet. Maybe I'll call tomorrow. I have to correct this no mount situation. I'm sick of sitting in the house.

they are just coming back from a show in UK, so maybe give it a day or two. I think they are back tuesday

Also i'd say get cracking on making plate solve work! if you are going to image, you are going to need all that stuff working for you, not against you lol

Brian

On Sun, Feb 2, 2020 at 6:58 PM Sonny Edmonds <sonnyedmonds@...> wrote:
Aubrey, Sounds good?and logical to me. Celestron's method never made sense. It just flopped around like a fish on a deck. But it worked. Or I learned to work it.

Derek, Yes, I know Polaris isn't within walking distance of the NCP, but it is the closest star. So good to use for reference. I do hope to eventually narrow it down. Anyone who has shot star trails (Hand in the air here) has seen Polaris circles. Just it circles the closest of what we have for reference. ;^) LOL!
Actually, I used to leave the mount and tripod set, and retained what PA I had with it. Only removing my Telescope and its stuff and leaving the connecting cords/wires with the mount. But since the Losmandy only has the Dec and RA cords, I was thinking like you about Pulling the Head. But I know from experience that the more that is disturbed, the more there is to correct the next use. Ergo, why I decided my split point was going to be the Vixen bar/clamp. It actually works pretty well, even though it isn't what I would call a precision joint. Things do come back pretty close.
Which brings me to "Perfectly Polar Aligned", Not going to happen. At least not on a tripod. And I have to wonder about if even on a pier. I think there would or could be variations. And the higher the magnifications (say a C-11) the more nerve racking it could become, from night to night. Hense, why I always started with adjusting my PA, ever so slightly, but yep every night. So "Perfect" doesn't exist. Pretty darn close does, but I never saw Perfectly in anything. I always worked towards it, but never saw it.
But the way Scott Losmandy covers it, the Gemini does as well as anything else without a Polar Scope, or a PoleMaster. You correct the aim and the Gemini II remembers the location. I'm not sure how, but that's what I get out of it. Center the star, push the appropriate buttons, and move to the next star.
Just new stuff to learn.

Brian, So far Plate solving hasn't worked out for me. But heck, there's other things that didn't work out for me that does work for others. Shrug! ;^)
When beginning, there were times I'd do many alignments just trying to get myself trained at it, and to see how good I could get it. But I was fighting a bad mount, and a bad Main Camera. Turned out my alignment and guiding were spot on, when I did get a decent camera. Even if I failed a lot, I learned. I enjoyed even the most frustrating nights.
I have both the Guide Camera and my Main Camera hooked up to my Baby Dell. So doggone it, Plate solving, SharpCap, and even Cart du Ciel?should work but not so far, not for me.
Stellarium has worked great for me, so I don't need to build sky charts. It can run the old AVX, and slew to objects.
But after about 4700 Polar Alignments, and not ever moving my mount. I got down to just changing pressure to get my old mount aligned.
LOL! I took down the old AVX tripod yesterday and had to use pliers to help get the leg screws loosened. Yep, they'd about grown roots. LOL!
I tore it down finally to set up my telescope for visual with the 8 year old Grandson who spent the night. We had some fun looking at different stars and the Moon.

Does anybody have the Email addresses for the Losmandy folks? I tried via the Technical Support @ Losmandy, but no reply as of yet. Maybe I'll call tomorrow. I have to correct this no mount situation. I'm sick of sitting in the house.



--
Brian?



Brian Valente
portfolio

 

¿ªÔÆÌåÓý

My guess is you are doing visual and it sounds like not a tremendously long focal length? so for your purposes that sounds like it should work fine

?

For astrophotography, having to center an invisible target to within 50pixels, night after night, and keep it there for hours. That probably requires a bit more accuracy

?

?

?

Thanks

?

Brian

?

portfolio https://www.brianvalentephotography.com/

?

From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Deric Caselli
Sent: Monday, February 3, 2020 9:03 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [Losmandy_users_io] Almost a new owner.... Getting it through my thick head.

?

Derek and Brian, I dont know really why this has worked for me. I set my tripod pointed North by compass, then used the polar scope ( I can't see the other polar alignment stars most of the time) so I just centered Polaris right in the center of the line convergence in the polar scope? then aligned on bright star. I had very clear skies last night and the only clear skies for the next week, so you know were I was for the Superbowl LOL...When I went to GoTo the mount was right on target it tracked the Moon perfectly (visual) for more than two hours, waiting for Orion and M42 to crest the tree line, then to Sirus to do a collimation on my SCT. I spent the rest of the night star hopping. The GoTo fuction worked just fine.? What I am not sure is, I think Gemini remembers from use to use and I guess it keeps learning or I have just been lucky. Happy skies

?

?

?

Sent from my Galaxy Tab A

?

?

?

-------- Original message --------

From: Brian Valente <bvalente@...>

Date: 2/2/20 9:02 PM (GMT-06:00)

Subject: Re: [Losmandy_users_io] Almost a new owner.... Getting it through my thick head.

?

>>> Does anybody have the Email addresses for the Losmandy folks? I tried via the Technical Support @ Losmandy, but no reply as of yet. Maybe I'll call tomorrow. I have to correct this no mount situation. I'm sick of sitting in the house.

?

they are just coming back from a show in UK, so maybe give it a day or two. I think they are back tuesday

?

Also i'd say get cracking on making plate solve work! if you are going to image, you are going to need all that stuff working for you, not against you lol

?

Brian

?

On Sun, Feb 2, 2020 at 6:58 PM Sonny Edmonds <sonnyedmonds@...> wrote:

Aubrey, Sounds good?and logical to me. Celestron's method never made sense. It just flopped around like a fish on a deck. But it worked. Or I learned to work it.

Derek, Yes, I know Polaris isn't within walking distance of the NCP, but it is the closest star. So good to use for reference. I do hope to eventually narrow it down. Anyone who has shot star trails (Hand in the air here) has seen Polaris circles. Just it circles the closest of what we have for reference. ;^) LOL!
Actually, I used to leave the mount and tripod set, and retained what PA I had with it. Only removing my Telescope and its stuff and leaving the connecting cords/wires with the mount. But since the Losmandy only has the Dec and RA cords, I was thinking like you about Pulling the Head. But I know from experience that the more that is disturbed, the more there is to correct the next use. Ergo, why I decided my split point was going to be the Vixen bar/clamp. It actually works pretty well, even though it isn't what I would call a precision joint. Things do come back pretty close.
Which brings me to "Perfectly Polar Aligned", Not going to happen. At least not on a tripod. And I have to wonder about if even on a pier. I think there would or could be variations. And the higher the magnifications (say a C-11) the more nerve racking it could become, from night to night. Hense, why I always started with adjusting my PA, ever so slightly, but yep every night. So "Perfect" doesn't exist. Pretty darn close does, but I never saw Perfectly in anything. I always worked towards it, but never saw it.
But the way Scott Losmandy covers it, the Gemini does as well as anything else without a Polar Scope, or a PoleMaster. You correct the aim and the Gemini II remembers the location. I'm not sure how, but that's what I get out of it. Center the star, push the appropriate buttons, and move to the next star.
Just new stuff to learn.

Brian, So far Plate solving hasn't worked out for me. But heck, there's other things that didn't work out for me that does work for others. Shrug! ;^)
When beginning, there were times I'd do many alignments just trying to get myself trained at it, and to see how good I could get it. But I was fighting a bad mount, and a bad Main Camera. Turned out my alignment and guiding were spot on, when I did get a decent camera. Even if I failed a lot, I learned. I enjoyed even the most frustrating nights.
I have both the Guide Camera and my Main Camera hooked up to my Baby Dell. So doggone it, Plate solving, SharpCap, and even Cart du Ciel?should work but not so far, not for me.
Stellarium has worked great for me, so I don't need to build sky charts. It can run the old AVX, and slew to objects.
But after about 4700 Polar Alignments, and not ever moving my mount. I got down to just changing pressure to get my old mount aligned.
LOL! I took down the old AVX tripod yesterday and had to use pliers to help get the leg screws loosened. Yep, they'd about grown roots. LOL!
I tore it down finally to set up my telescope for visual with the 8 year old Grandson who spent the night. We had some fun looking at different stars and the Moon.

Does anybody have the Email addresses for the Losmandy folks? I tried via the Technical Support @ Losmandy, but no reply as of yet. Maybe I'll call tomorrow. I have to correct this no mount situation. I'm sick of sitting in the house.


?

--

Brian?

?

?

?

Brian Valente

portfolio

Sonny Edmonds
 

Sounds like you hit a good Polar Alignment.
I used to have good nights and bad nights.
Eventually I had more good nights than bad nights.
But, when I stopped moving my mount, I had almost all good nights.
I'd just put my bag on, then my 32 gallon dome. And come back the next night to a nearly Polar Aligned mount.
Just a quick tweak, and onward through the night.

But I'm in it for imaging Nebula. Just fascinated with it.
I use an Orion ED80T CF as my telescope.
 

¿ªÔÆÌåÓý

Umm.. Because that¡¯s how it is supposed to work?? :-))

?

Let¡¯s say you put a camera of some kind on the scope.. or (as a visual observer) you installed a Barlow.. Would it still ¡°work¡±? Yes it would, if you have a ¡°plan¡± for when something happens you didn¡¯t expect, namely when the object you are headed to lands outside the FOV..

?There is a very simple trick that everyone should be using.. Yesterday when I read the Gemini-2 website I saw it there too.. I *always* GOTO a bright object close to my intended target, *then* GOTO the actual target.. Think ¡°Computerized Starhop¡±..

?My point yesterday is that if you are polar aligned ¨C even close enough ¨C you can then image.. Even if you plate solve, you are using the same exact method..

?For instance.. If *I* was headed to M78 in Orion to nab an image from the startup position, I would NEVER try to slew straight to M78 (as I use rather small FOV¡¯s), I might GOTO Betelguese.. It would likely be outside my roughly 20x15 arc min FOV.. Turning on the laser would allow me to find it and center it.. SYNCH.. Then maybe I would GOTO Alnitak, center and SYNCH.. Then I would be pretty confident that when I did a GOTO to M78, it would be near the center of the FOV and certainly at least in the FOV.. SYNCH on it, in case I accidentally press some button that sends the mount off to some other target so I can return to where I was supposed be.. This is a bright example, but it works just as well for any object your equipment is capable of showing, and doesn¡¯t involve plate solving, model building, Stellarium, or an Ethernet cable.. It is simply, If you want your GOTO¡¯s to be 100% accurate, make them as short as possible.. i.e. Alnitak to M78, Polaris to M78..

?Technology comes AFTER this point not before.. IMHO..

?

Derek

?

?

From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Deric Caselli
Sent: Monday, February 03, 2020 9:03 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [Losmandy_users_io] Almost a new owner.... Getting it through my thick head.

?

Derek and Brian, I dont know really why this has worked for me. I set my tripod pointed North by compass, then used the polar scope ( I can't see the other polar alignment stars most of the time) so I just centered Polaris right in the center of the line convergence in the polar scope? then aligned on bright star. I had very clear skies last night and the only clear skies for the next week, so you know were I was for the Superbowl LOL...When I went to GoTo the mount was right on target it tracked the Moon perfectly (visual) for more than two hours, waiting for Orion and M42 to crest the tree line, then to Sirus to do a collimation on my SCT. I spent the rest of the night star hopping. The GoTo fuction worked just fine.? What I am not sure is, I think Gemini remembers from use to use and I guess it keeps learning or I have just been lucky. Happy skies

?

?

?

Sent from my Galaxy Tab A
 

¿ªÔÆÌåÓý

Brian, yes for now I am visual, and I agree with the accuracy for AP my focal length is 2032mm SCT telescopes are generally long in focal length. I will join the pack soon with a short focal length small aperture fast APO and moded DSLR camera. Then comes the challenge. " The Lull that arrives before the tempest fosters hubris in average men but strikes fear apon ithe hearts of wise Mariners" LOL...?



Sent from my Galaxy Tab A



-------- Original message --------
From: Brian Valente <bvalente@...>
Date: 2/3/20 11:24 AM (GMT-06:00)
Subject: Re: [Losmandy_users_io] Almost a new owner.... Getting it through my thick head.

My guess is you are doing visual and it sounds like not a tremendously long focal length? so for your purposes that sounds like it should work fine

?

For astrophotography, having to center an invisible target to within 50pixels, night after night, and keep it there for hours. That probably requires a bit more accuracy

?

?

?

Thanks

?

Brian

?

portfolio https://www.brianvalentephotography.com/

?

From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Deric Caselli
Sent: Monday, February 3, 2020 9:03 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [Losmandy_users_io] Almost a new owner.... Getting it through my thick head.

?

Derek and Brian, I dont know really why this has worked for me. I set my tripod pointed North by compass, then used the polar scope ( I can't see the other polar alignment stars most of the time) so I just centered Polaris right in the center of the line convergence in the polar scope? then aligned on bright star. I had very clear skies last night and the only clear skies for the next week, so you know were I was for the Superbowl LOL...When I went to GoTo the mount was right on target it tracked the Moon perfectly (visual) for more than two hours, waiting for Orion and M42 to crest the tree line, then to Sirus to do a collimation on my SCT. I spent the rest of the night star hopping. The GoTo fuction worked just fine.? What I am not sure is, I think Gemini remembers from use to use and I guess it keeps learning or I have just been lucky. Happy skies

?

?

?

Sent from my Galaxy Tab A

?

?

?

-------- Original message --------

From: Brian Valente <bvalente@...>

Date: 2/2/20 9:02 PM (GMT-06:00)

Subject: Re: [Losmandy_users_io] Almost a new owner.... Getting it through my thick head.

?

>>> Does anybody have the Email addresses for the Losmandy folks? I tried via the Technical Support @ Losmandy, but no reply as of yet. Maybe I'll call tomorrow. I have to correct this no mount situation. I'm sick of sitting in the house.

?

they are just coming back from a show in UK, so maybe give it a day or two. I think they are back tuesday

?

Also i'd say get cracking on making plate solve work! if you are going to image, you are going to need all that stuff working for you, not against you lol

?

Brian

?

On Sun, Feb 2, 2020 at 6:58 PM Sonny Edmonds <sonnyedmonds@...> wrote:

Aubrey, Sounds good?and logical to me. Celestron's method never made sense. It just flopped around like a fish on a deck. But it worked. Or I learned to work it.

Derek, Yes, I know Polaris isn't within walking distance of the NCP, but it is the closest star. So good to use for reference. I do hope to eventually narrow it down. Anyone who has shot star trails (Hand in the air here) has seen Polaris circles. Just it circles the closest of what we have for reference. ;^) LOL!
Actually, I used to leave the mount and tripod set, and retained what PA I had with it. Only removing my Telescope and its stuff and leaving the connecting cords/wires with the mount. But since the Losmandy only has the Dec and RA cords, I was thinking like you about Pulling the Head. But I know from experience that the more that is disturbed, the more there is to correct the next use. Ergo, why I decided my split point was going to be the Vixen bar/clamp. It actually works pretty well, even though it isn't what I would call a precision joint. Things do come back pretty close.
Which brings me to "Perfectly Polar Aligned", Not going to happen. At least not on a tripod. And I have to wonder about if even on a pier. I think there would or could be variations. And the higher the magnifications (say a C-11) the more nerve racking it could become, from night to night. Hense, why I always started with adjusting my PA, ever so slightly, but yep every night. So "Perfect" doesn't exist. Pretty darn close does, but I never saw Perfectly in anything. I always worked towards it, but never saw it.
But the way Scott Losmandy covers it, the Gemini does as well as anything else without a Polar Scope, or a PoleMaster. You correct the aim and the Gemini II remembers the location. I'm not sure how, but that's what I get out of it. Center the star, push the appropriate buttons, and move to the next star.
Just new stuff to learn.

Brian, So far Plate solving hasn't worked out for me. But heck, there's other things that didn't work out for me that does work for others. Shrug! ;^)
When beginning, there were times I'd do many alignments just trying to get myself trained at it, and to see how good I could get it. But I was fighting a bad mount, and a bad Main Camera. Turned out my alignment and guiding were spot on, when I did get a decent camera. Even if I failed a lot, I learned. I enjoyed even the most frustrating nights.
I have both the Guide Camera and my Main Camera hooked up to my Baby Dell. So doggone it, Plate solving, SharpCap, and even Cart du Ciel?should work but not so far, not for me.
Stellarium has worked great for me, so I don't need to build sky charts. It can run the old AVX, and slew to objects.
But after about 4700 Polar Alignments, and not ever moving my mount. I got down to just changing pressure to get my old mount aligned.
LOL! I took down the old AVX tripod yesterday and had to use pliers to help get the leg screws loosened. Yep, they'd about grown roots. LOL!
I tore it down finally to set up my telescope for visual with the 8 year old Grandson who spent the night. We had some fun looking at different stars and the Moon.

Does anybody have the Email addresses for the Losmandy folks? I tried via the Technical Support @ Losmandy, but no reply as of yet. Maybe I'll call tomorrow. I have to correct this no mount situation. I'm sick of sitting in the house.


?

--

Brian?

?

?

?

Brian Valente

portfolio

 

¿ªÔÆÌåÓý

Derek, that's a great information. I will give that a try on my next outing. Happy Skies



Sent from my Galaxy Tab A



-------- Original message --------
From: Derek C Breit <breit_ideas@...>
Date: 2/3/20 1:24 PM (GMT-06:00)
Subject: Re: [Losmandy_users_io] Almost a new owner.... Getting it through my thick head.

Umm.. Because that¡¯s how it is supposed to work?? :-))

?

Let¡¯s say you put a camera of some kind on the scope.. or (as a visual observer) you installed a Barlow.. Would it still ¡°work¡±? Yes it would, if you have a ¡°plan¡± for when something happens you didn¡¯t expect, namely when the object you are headed to lands outside the FOV..

?There is a very simple trick that everyone should be using.. Yesterday when I read the Gemini-2 website I saw it there too.. I *always* GOTO a bright object close to my intended target, *then* GOTO the actual target.. Think ¡°Computerized Starhop¡±..

?My point yesterday is that if you are polar aligned ¨C even close enough ¨C you can then image.. Even if you plate solve, you are using the same exact method..

?For instance.. If *I* was headed to M78 in Orion to nab an image from the startup position, I would NEVER try to slew straight to M78 (as I use rather small FOV¡¯s), I might GOTO Betelguese.. It would likely be outside my roughly 20x15 arc min FOV.. Turning on the laser would allow me to find it and center it.. SYNCH.. Then maybe I would GOTO Alnitak, center and SYNCH.. Then I would be pretty confident that when I did a GOTO to M78, it would be near the center of the FOV and certainly at least in the FOV.. SYNCH on it, in case I accidentally press some button that sends the mount off to some other target so I can return to where I was supposed be.. This is a bright example, but it works just as well for any object your equipment is capable of showing, and doesn¡¯t involve plate solving, model building, Stellarium, or an Ethernet cable.. It is simply, If you want your GOTO¡¯s to be 100% accurate, make them as short as possible.. i.e. Alnitak to M78, Polaris to M78..

?Technology comes AFTER this point not before.. IMHO..

?

Derek

?

?

From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Deric Caselli
Sent: Monday, February 03, 2020 9:03 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [Losmandy_users_io] Almost a new owner.... Getting it through my thick head.

?

Derek and Brian, I dont know really why this has worked for me. I set my tripod pointed North by compass, then used the polar scope ( I can't see the other polar alignment stars most of the time) so I just centered Polaris right in the center of the line convergence in the polar scope? then aligned on bright star. I had very clear skies last night and the only clear skies for the next week, so you know were I was for the Superbowl LOL...When I went to GoTo the mount was right on target it tracked the Moon perfectly (visual) for more than two hours, waiting for Orion and M42 to crest the tree line, then to Sirus to do a collimation on my SCT. I spent the rest of the night star hopping. The GoTo fuction worked just fine.? What I am not sure is, I think Gemini remembers from use to use and I guess it keeps learning or I have just been lucky. Happy skies

?

?

?

Sent from my Galaxy Tab A
 

As they say, whatever works for you, if it works, stick with it

I'm still a little confused as to why you seem to downplay plate solve

it is truly a game changer for AP.?

just?to be clear, once you have it running, there is zero model building, zero multi-star alignment, and targets (visual or not) are solved to within pixels of where they need to be (particularly important for multi-night imaging)

and it happens automatically. With apps like NINA, SGP, etc. all that centering is handled for you

with that kind of sophistication, i'm not sure why you would want to do it any other way if you are doing astrophotography?

Derek i think you said you are still working on getting platesolve working, if you send me a raw file i'll work on it with you :)

On Mon, Feb 3, 2020 at 11:57 AM Deric Caselli <JethroStCyr@...> wrote:
Derek, that's a great information. I will give that a try on my next outing. Happy Skies



Sent from my Galaxy Tab A



-------- Original message --------
From: Derek C Breit <breit_ideas@...>
Date: 2/3/20 1:24 PM (GMT-06:00)
Subject: Re: [Losmandy_users_io] Almost a new owner.... Getting it through my thick head.

Umm.. Because that¡¯s how it is supposed to work?? :-))

?

Let¡¯s say you put a camera of some kind on the scope.. or (as a visual observer) you installed a Barlow.. Would it still ¡°work¡±? Yes it would, if you have a ¡°plan¡± for when something happens you didn¡¯t expect, namely when the object you are headed to lands outside the FOV..

?There is a very simple trick that everyone should be using.. Yesterday when I read the Gemini-2 website I saw it there too.. I *always* GOTO a bright object close to my intended target, *then* GOTO the actual target.. Think ¡°Computerized Starhop¡±..

?My point yesterday is that if you are polar aligned ¨C even close enough ¨C you can then image.. Even if you plate solve, you are using the same exact method..

?For instance.. If *I* was headed to M78 in Orion to nab an image from the startup position, I would NEVER try to slew straight to M78 (as I use rather small FOV¡¯s), I might GOTO Betelguese.. It would likely be outside my roughly 20x15 arc min FOV.. Turning on the laser would allow me to find it and center it.. SYNCH.. Then maybe I would GOTO Alnitak, center and SYNCH.. Then I would be pretty confident that when I did a GOTO to M78, it would be near the center of the FOV and certainly at least in the FOV.. SYNCH on it, in case I accidentally press some button that sends the mount off to some other target so I can return to where I was supposed be.. This is a bright example, but it works just as well for any object your equipment is capable of showing, and doesn¡¯t involve plate solving, model building, Stellarium, or an Ethernet cable.. It is simply, If you want your GOTO¡¯s to be 100% accurate, make them as short as possible.. i.e. Alnitak to M78, Polaris to M78..

?Technology comes AFTER this point not before.. IMHO..

?

Derek

?

?

From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Deric Caselli
Sent: Monday, February 03, 2020 9:03 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [Losmandy_users_io] Almost a new owner.... Getting it through my thick head.

?

Derek and Brian, I dont know really why this has worked for me. I set my tripod pointed North by compass, then used the polar scope ( I can't see the other polar alignment stars most of the time) so I just centered Polaris right in the center of the line convergence in the polar scope? then aligned on bright star. I had very clear skies last night and the only clear skies for the next week, so you know were I was for the Superbowl LOL...When I went to GoTo the mount was right on target it tracked the Moon perfectly (visual) for more than two hours, waiting for Orion and M42 to crest the tree line, then to Sirus to do a collimation on my SCT. I spent the rest of the night star hopping. The GoTo fuction worked just fine.? What I am not sure is, I think Gemini remembers from use to use and I guess it keeps learning or I have just been lucky. Happy skies

?

?

?

Sent from my Galaxy Tab A



--
Brian?



Brian Valente
portfolio

 

Deric - nice to hear! I¡¯m a future owner. Getting my G11 in a few months. How do you like the polar scope?
--
Rick Paul
Tucson, AZ
 

¿ªÔÆÌåÓý

Richard, I Welcom you to the group. I am also a new owner of a G11, the Losmandy polar scope is more sophisticated than some others and will take a bit of getting used to.their are more precise gizmos Like Shapcap and Polemaster. I will look to one of these in the near future. I like to have old school abilities along with modern devices mainly? for back ups, like being able to do celestial navigation with a sextant even though you have GPS. Okay that said. The Losmandy polar scope will work well if you can see Polaris of course along with another star. I cant allways see the other stars so I will just center Polaris in the convergence point and Gemini will do the rest quite nicely I might add. Just Google up "Losmandy Polar Scope instructions? you will find Losmandy's Kenko Polar finder instructions PDF. or www.company7.com and look up "Losmandy pole finder instructions" it works well for viewing, it will not be accurate enough for long exposures for AP. I also will do a drift alignment and with that I may be able to do short exposures.I think you will Love your G11, it was one of my two best purchases for Astronomy the other is a nightvision device. I think that the first night out with your New G11 just do a fast start routine make sure you pay attention to your information you put in to the Gemini HC, like the minus signs in location and time zone "I made that mistake my first outing and Gemini thought I was in Russia somewhere". Once done press next on HC? then back, then back again, press GoTo, press The Bright Star button, select star from list once your mount finishes slewing the HC Will go to home screen use it to center the bright star then press Align then Alignment. And you are done. Easy peasy. I think this routine is a nice place to start with your Losmandy G11. This Losmandy Group is awesome Lots of great advice and help. I've put together alot of information as a appendium to the Losmandy G11 and Gemini manual from this group of very knowledgeable folks. Oh yeah this was about the Polar scope. Even in the future when I am using Sharpcap or a polemaster I am glad to have the polar scope also. HAPPY SKIES.



Sent from my Galaxy Tab A



-------- Original message --------
From: "Richard Paul via Groups.Io" <rickpaul@...>
Date: 2/3/20 2:04 PM (GMT-06:00)
Subject: Re: [Losmandy_users_io] Almost a new owner.... Getting it through my thick head.

Deric - nice to hear! I¡¯m a future owner. Getting my G11 in a few months. How do you like the polar scope?
--
Rick Paul
Tucson, AZ

 

¿ªÔÆÌåÓý

I'm still a little confused as to why you seem to downplay plate solve

***

If you are asking me.. I am doing no such thing, as witnessed by the last line..

Derek i think you said you are still working on getting platesolve working, if you send me a raw file i'll work on it with you :)

***

I *AM* working towards Plate Solving / other such things so I too can image all night and across multiple nights.. I am addressing the subject ¡°Getting it through my thick head¡± and / or Newbie¡¯s ?and issues I have heard in this group and / or have had myself.. Namely.. Making it work..

You don¡¯t *NEED* all the technology to image and I maintain that if you go spend $10k for a scope, mount, cameras, computers, and hook it all up, it will invariably NOT WORK.. You need to work up to it and even if it does all work for you for a couple decades, there will be that ONE TIME, you forget a piece ¨C like an Ethernet Cable ¨C and since you have driven an hour to your Dark Sky site, what are you going to do?? Will you just pack it all up and go back home cursing everything and everyone, or will you ¡°fallback¡± to the ¡°non technology based¡± methods of yesteryear?? KISS! Keep It Simple, Stupid! Are words to live by..

??? Absolutely I wish my semi permanent in the front yard setup to be able to guide at sub arcsecond accuracy, plate solve, etc.. but even if I left everything at home AND had no power in the field, I could still put even an invisible target in my small FOV, and.. to me.. that is the most important thing of all.. Positively identifying a magnitude 18 star, for example.. Technology to make it happen faster or better is secondary..

?IMO.. I also agree completely with ¡°if it works for you, use it¡±.. You *MUST* know your equipment.. I can use mine just fine, but I couldn¡¯t show up and use yours the way you do..

???

??? As for my plate solving, I have never been able to solve any image, even on Astronomy.net. Usually from Watec Video cameras, and from the above, it should be obvious that I know enough about the FOV and scope that it SHOULD work.. I do not (yet) have any samples for anyone else to try and solve.. The images I have acquired previously have all been deleted, as I lack hard drive space.. The New camera will arrive soon, and I *will* begin to use what I have learned in the past few months to move forward..

?

Derek

?

From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Brian Valente
Sent: Monday, February 03, 2020 12:02 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [Losmandy_users_io] Almost a new owner.... Getting it through my thick head.

?

As they say, whatever works for you, if it works, stick with it

?

I'm still a little confused as to why you seem to downplay plate solve

?

it is truly a game changer for AP.?

?

just?to be clear, once you have it running, there is zero model building, zero multi-star alignment, and targets (visual or not) are solved to within pixels of where they need to be (particularly important for multi-night imaging)

?

and it happens automatically. With apps like NINA, SGP, etc. all that centering is handled for you

?

with that kind of sophistication, i'm not sure why you would want to do it any other way if you are doing astrophotography?

?

Derek i think you said you are still working on getting platesolve working, if you send me a raw file i'll work on it with you :)

?

On Mon, Feb 3, 2020 at 11:57 AM Deric Caselli <JethroStCyr@...> wrote:

Derek, that's a great information. I will give that a try on my next outing. Happy Skies

?

?

?

Sent from my Galaxy Tab A

?

?

?

-------- Original message --------

From: Derek C Breit <breit_ideas@...>

Date: 2/3/20 1:24 PM (GMT-06:00)

Subject: Re: [Losmandy_users_io] Almost a new owner.... Getting it through my thick head.

?

Umm.. Because that¡¯s how it is supposed to work?? :-))

?

Let¡¯s say you put a camera of some kind on the scope.. or (as a visual observer) you installed a Barlow.. Would it still ¡°work¡±? Yes it would, if you have a ¡°plan¡± for when something happens you didn¡¯t expect, namely when the object you are headed to lands outside the FOV..

?There is a very simple trick that everyone should be using.. Yesterday when I read the Gemini-2 website I saw it there too.. I *always* GOTO a bright object close to my intended target, *then* GOTO the actual target.. Think ¡°Computerized Starhop¡±..

?My point yesterday is that if you are polar aligned ¨C even close enough ¨C you can then image.. Even if you plate solve, you are using the same exact method..

?For instance.. If *I* was headed to M78 in Orion to nab an image from the startup position, I would NEVER try to slew straight to M78 (as I use rather small FOV¡¯s), I might GOTO Betelguese.. It would likely be outside my roughly 20x15 arc min FOV.. Turning on the laser would allow me to find it and center it.. SYNCH.. Then maybe I would GOTO Alnitak, center and SYNCH.. Then I would be pretty confident that when I did a GOTO to M78, it would be near the center of the FOV and certainly at least in the FOV.. SYNCH on it, in case I accidentally press some button that sends the mount off to some other target so I can return to where I was supposed be.. This is a bright example, but it works just as well for any object your equipment is capable of showing, and doesn¡¯t involve plate solving, model building, Stellarium, or an Ethernet cable.. It is simply, If you want your GOTO¡¯s to be 100% accurate, make them as short as possible.. i.e. Alnitak to M78, Polaris to M78..

?Technology comes AFTER this point not before.. IMHO..

?

Derek

?

?

From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Deric Caselli
Sent: Monday, February 03, 2020 9:03 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [Losmandy_users_io] Almost a new owner.... Getting it through my thick head.

?

Derek and Brian, I dont know really why this has worked for me. I set my tripod pointed North by compass, then used the polar scope ( I can't see the other polar alignment stars most of the time) so I just centered Polaris right in the center of the line convergence in the polar scope? then aligned on bright star. I had very clear skies last night and the only clear skies for the next week, so you know were I was for the Superbowl LOL...When I went to GoTo the mount was right on target it tracked the Moon perfectly (visual) for more than two hours, waiting for Orion and M42 to crest the tree line, then to Sirus to do a collimation on my SCT. I spent the rest of the night star hopping. The GoTo fuction worked just fine.? What I am not sure is, I think Gemini remembers from use to use and I guess it keeps learning or I have just been lucky. Happy skies

?

?

?

Sent from my Galaxy Tab A


?

--

Brian?

?

?

?

Brian Valente

portfolio

?

Virus-free.

 

Derek i think you and i approach technology in this specific context differently, and that's okay. that's why there's chocolate and vanilla right?

My experience and what I wanted to convey is that the old school star alignment is not a prerequisite for astrophotography with today's capabilities, specifically plate solving. it's great to know it, but by no means is it necessary imo. I learned via star hopping, alignments, etc. but knowing what I know now, and i were starting today, i would skip that and go straight to plate solving. once that is working there is little value to knowing about multi-star alignment. It's like saying we should start photography by developing film. there's little value to knowing paper grades, pushing film stock etc. when digital has completely different processes.?

Yes it's one more thing to go wrong, but we're talking astrophotography, so you're already dragging out a computer, camera, usb cables, etc. it's only one small thing in addition to the multitude of things that could go wrong. If we're already riding the AP technology train. one more passenger isn't going to bring it to a screeching halt. The key to me is not if stuff will break, it's what is your plan b for when anything breaks. if you can't control your mount and plate solve, chances are you won't be able to guide it, won't be able to dither, etc. the best of modern AP imo really does involve all that stuff.?

i appreciate what you are advocating, and I'm not against it at all. i also want to make sure newbies know that you don't have to learn this about losmandy mounts to have accurate gotos. Losmandy catches flack for gemini not being "easy to use" and this is one of those areas that causes people grief.

On Mon, Feb 3, 2020 at 1:10 PM Derek C Breit <breit_ideas@...> wrote:

I'm still a little confused as to why you seem to downplay plate solve

***

If you are asking me.. I am doing no such thing, as witnessed by the last line..

Derek i think you said you are still working on getting platesolve working, if you send me a raw file i'll work on it with you :)

***

I *AM* working towards Plate Solving / other such things so I too can image all night and across multiple nights.. I am addressing the subject ¡°Getting it through my thick head¡± and / or Newbie¡¯s ?and issues I have heard in this group and / or have had myself.. Namely.. Making it work..

You don¡¯t *NEED* all the technology to image and I maintain that if you go spend $10k for a scope, mount, cameras, computers, and hook it all up, it will invariably NOT WORK.. You need to work up to it and even if it does all work for you for a couple decades, there will be that ONE TIME, you forget a piece ¨C like an Ethernet Cable ¨C and since you have driven an hour to your Dark Sky site, what are you going to do?? Will you just pack it all up and go back home cursing everything and everyone, or will you ¡°fallback¡± to the ¡°non technology based¡± methods of yesteryear?? KISS! Keep It Simple, Stupid! Are words to live by..

??? Absolutely I wish my semi permanent in the front yard setup to be able to guide at sub arcsecond accuracy, plate solve, etc.. but even if I left everything at home AND had no power in the field, I could still put even an invisible target in my small FOV, and.. to me.. that is the most important thing of all.. Positively identifying a magnitude 18 star, for example.. Technology to make it happen faster or better is secondary..

?IMO.. I also agree completely with ¡°if it works for you, use it¡±.. You *MUST* know your equipment.. I can use mine just fine, but I couldn¡¯t show up and use yours the way you do..

???

??? As for my plate solving, I have never been able to solve any image, even on Astronomy.net. Usually from Watec Video cameras, and from the above, it should be obvious that I know enough about the FOV and scope that it SHOULD work.. I do not (yet) have any samples for anyone else to try and solve.. The images I have acquired previously have all been deleted, as I lack hard drive space.. The New camera will arrive soon, and I *will* begin to use what I have learned in the past few months to move forward..

?

Derek

?

From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Brian Valente
Sent: Monday, February 03, 2020 12:02 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [Losmandy_users_io] Almost a new owner.... Getting it through my thick head.

?

As they say, whatever works for you, if it works, stick with it

?

I'm still a little confused as to why you seem to downplay plate solve

?

it is truly a game changer for AP.?

?

just?to be clear, once you have it running, there is zero model building, zero multi-star alignment, and targets (visual or not) are solved to within pixels of where they need to be (particularly important for multi-night imaging)

?

and it happens automatically. With apps like NINA, SGP, etc. all that centering is handled for you

?

with that kind of sophistication, i'm not sure why you would want to do it any other way if you are doing astrophotography?

?

Derek i think you said you are still working on getting platesolve working, if you send me a raw file i'll work on it with you :)

?

On Mon, Feb 3, 2020 at 11:57 AM Deric Caselli <JethroStCyr@...> wrote:

Derek, that's a great information. I will give that a try on my next outing. Happy Skies

?

?

?

Sent from my Galaxy Tab A

?

?

?

-------- Original message --------

From: Derek C Breit <breit_ideas@...>

Date: 2/3/20 1:24 PM (GMT-06:00)

Subject: Re: [Losmandy_users_io] Almost a new owner.... Getting it through my thick head.

?

Umm.. Because that¡¯s how it is supposed to work?? :-))

?

Let¡¯s say you put a camera of some kind on the scope.. or (as a visual observer) you installed a Barlow.. Would it still ¡°work¡±? Yes it would, if you have a ¡°plan¡± for when something happens you didn¡¯t expect, namely when the object you are headed to lands outside the FOV..

?There is a very simple trick that everyone should be using.. Yesterday when I read the Gemini-2 website I saw it there too.. I *always* GOTO a bright object close to my intended target, *then* GOTO the actual target.. Think ¡°Computerized Starhop¡±..

?My point yesterday is that if you are polar aligned ¨C even close enough ¨C you can then image.. Even if you plate solve, you are using the same exact method..

?For instance.. If *I* was headed to M78 in Orion to nab an image from the startup position, I would NEVER try to slew straight to M78 (as I use rather small FOV¡¯s), I might GOTO Betelguese.. It would likely be outside my roughly 20x15 arc min FOV.. Turning on the laser would allow me to find it and center it.. SYNCH.. Then maybe I would GOTO Alnitak, center and SYNCH.. Then I would be pretty confident that when I did a GOTO to M78, it would be near the center of the FOV and certainly at least in the FOV.. SYNCH on it, in case I accidentally press some button that sends the mount off to some other target so I can return to where I was supposed be.. This is a bright example, but it works just as well for any object your equipment is capable of showing, and doesn¡¯t involve plate solving, model building, Stellarium, or an Ethernet cable.. It is simply, If you want your GOTO¡¯s to be 100% accurate, make them as short as possible.. i.e. Alnitak to M78, Polaris to M78..

?Technology comes AFTER this point not before.. IMHO..

?

Derek

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From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Deric Caselli
Sent: Monday, February 03, 2020 9:03 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [Losmandy_users_io] Almost a new owner.... Getting it through my thick head.

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Derek and Brian, I dont know really why this has worked for me. I set my tripod pointed North by compass, then used the polar scope ( I can't see the other polar alignment stars most of the time) so I just centered Polaris right in the center of the line convergence in the polar scope? then aligned on bright star. I had very clear skies last night and the only clear skies for the next week, so you know were I was for the Superbowl LOL...When I went to GoTo the mount was right on target it tracked the Moon perfectly (visual) for more than two hours, waiting for Orion and M42 to crest the tree line, then to Sirus to do a collimation on my SCT. I spent the rest of the night star hopping. The GoTo fuction worked just fine.? What I am not sure is, I think Gemini remembers from use to use and I guess it keeps learning or I have just been lucky. Happy skies

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Sent from my Galaxy Tab A


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Brian?

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Virus-free.



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Sonny Edmonds
 

Not if you get Chocolate Chip. LOL!

I got as far as I could for now with plate solving. Seems the program wants to see a mount, and to see a camera.
Oh, why can't it just read my mind?
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SonnyE
 

Sonny what program are you using?

if you are trying to "live solve" you are sort of saying?"i want you to take a picture and solve it"

if you already have a pic, i'd suggest going to and uploading it there to witness the magic of plate solve. it's? blind solve, so i don't think it requires accurate fits header data like date/time and loc

On Mon, Feb 3, 2020 at 2:05 PM Sonny Edmonds <sonnyedmonds@...> wrote:
Not if you get Chocolate Chip. LOL!

I got as far as I could for now with plate solving. Seems the program wants to see a mount, and to see a camera.
Oh, why can't it just read my mind?
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SonnyE



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Brian?



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