Re: Declination "Motor Stalled" warning on G11/G-1
I think i have that power supply too!
it should be fine
just try to isolate when and where the problem occurs. From what it sounds like, it's only when you are issuing to goto with both motors running slew speed at the same time?
what happens if you press both RA and DEC buttons at slew speed with the hand controller??
On Sun, Jan 24, 2021 at 4:01 PM Russell Milton < russmilt@...> wrote: [Edited Message Follows]
Thanks, Brian. My supply is a Pyramid 5-amp (7-amp surge), 12-volt supply set for 13.8 volts. I'll look into whether there is a voltage set adjustment internally for a higher input to the mount's electronics. I use power pole connectors between power supply and the Gemini power input cable. But all other connections are via push-in multi-pin connectors. As was mentioned, these can be subject to corrosion or detritus interfering with good, low drop connection.
When I bypassed initial star alignment, I chose sidereal to enable the hand controller to control motors directly. Once I got the Dec motor to respond, the motor-stall error went away on go-to star alignment.
Edit:
I checked the supply voltage - 13.8V idle, 13.6V under light load. I used a small inverter to power a <10W LED lamp. So upping the output voltage looks to be worthwhile. I don't use it for anything but the Losmandy G11 mount.
Russ
-- Brian?
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Re: Declination "Motor Stalled" warning on G11/G-1
Russ,
Look at the DIN sockets and you will see the round pin hole, and a linear slot too for each pin.? There are metal fingers in the slots.? You can get a thin nail or blade into the slot and push the metal connector fingers inward.? This might help get your cable connector pins better contact.
Now to isolate the problem.
Swap the RA and DEC cables if you are able.? Does the problem move with the cable?? If yes replace the bad cable.
Swap the RA and DEC motor (just connect the cable end to the wrong motor).? Does the problem move with the motor?? If so...consider buying a new motor.??
If the problem stays in the same place (DEC, or RA) regardless of cable or motor, ...seems like the trouble is in the Gemini.? The Gemini-1 has a chip for each axis that reads the optical encoder.? That chip can become damaged.? I have these parts and do these repairs.? So if that ends up being the problem...in the G-1, you can contact me off line to do a repair.
What causes the optical encoder chip or a motor to become damaged? Simple: the 12 to 18V pins running the motor are far higher than the 5V max HEDS optical encoder unit in the motor, and far exceeds the 5V max of the optical signal detector chip in the Gemini. If one were to mistakenly rotate the round DIN cable then the pins go into the wrong position and ...kapow.??
This happens to someone every year.??
So...label your cable ends with some type of marker and where they insert, so the orientation is clear, even in the darkness when you set up.? I use white label maker labels cut into an arrow shape.??
Very best of luck, Michael
On Sun, Jan 24, 2021, 3:39 PM Russell Milton < russmilt@...> wrote: Good suggestion! That sounds safer and more effective than mechanically removing oxidation. I remember having a spray can of Radio Shack contact clean somewhere. If I can find that, I'll give it a try. Otherwise I'll get some DeOxit. It claims to be protective of the contact surfaces. In the moist environment that would be a plus.
Russ
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Re: Declination "Motor Stalled" warning on G11/G-1
Good suggestion! That sounds safer and more effective than mechanically removing oxidation. I remember having a spray can of Radio Shack contact clean somewhere. If I can find that, I'll give it a try. Otherwise I'll get some DeOxit. It claims to be protective of the contact surfaces. In the moist environment that would be a plus.
Russ
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Re: Declination "Motor Stalled" warning on G11/G-1
Thanks, Brian. My supply is a Pyramid 5-amp (7-amp surge), 12-volt supply set for 13.8 volts. I'll look into whether there is a voltage set adjustment internally for a higher input to the mount's electronics. I use power pole connectors between power supply and the Gemini power input cable. But all other connections are via push-in multi-pin connectors. As was mentioned, these can be subject to corrosion or detritus interfering with good, low drop connection.
When I bypassed initial star alignment, I chose sidereal to enable the hand controller to control motors directly. Once I got the Dec motor to respond, the motor-stall error went away on go-to star alignment.
Edit:
I checked the supply voltage - 13.8V idle, 13.6V under light load. I used a small inverter to power a <10W LED lamp. So upping the output voltage looks to be worthwhile. I don't use it for anything but the Losmandy G11 mount.
Russ
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Re: Orientation of pier/riser relative to legs
There is no "right way" as any of those work
but the generally preferred and accepted "normal" way is to have one leg pointing north and the Gemini mounted to the opposite?(south) side.?
it does not make any difference in performance, though you have to look at things like motor cable lengths to ensure things will connect up
the picture you mention is out of date - you can see it's the older gemini in there?
Brian
On Sun, Jan 24, 2021 at 2:53 PM Bill Tschumy < bill@...> wrote: A day or two ago I asked how best to achieve CWD position.? Sonny replied
> When beginning with everything plumb from the tripod up, it is natural for the weight shaft to be centered on a North pointing tripod leg.
I just realized that my tripod is set up so the counterweight shaft is between two legs, it can¡¯t be over a leg.? Not that it matters that much but I think my short pier was put on incorrectly.? I can take our the 6 bolts and rotate it 30? (??) so that I can put the head on with the shaft over a leg.
Can someone tell me what is the correct position?? Is the Gemini 2 unit supposed to be on the east or west side?? The way mine came, the unit would be on the south side.
The picture here seems to indicate it should be on the west side (actually north-west).
Bill
--
Bill Tschumy
Otherwise -- Longmont, CO
-- Brian?
Brian Valente portfolio
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Re: Understanding a GM8 for Possible Purchase
Chip nice writeup
It's getting better at the shop but it's still quite a few weeks lead time right now
when are you coming back to finish your mount? :)
On Sun, Jan 24, 2021 at 2:20 PM Chip Louie < chiplouie@...> wrote: Hi Jeff,
My name is Chip, Louie is my surname.
The main issue is the value proposition of buying a used Losmandy mount for imaging that lacks Gemini 2 and spring loaded worms. If you don't have these two key features on the mount you will not have an easy time imaging. The older mounts can always be updated but that costs time and money. The time issue is the real problem right now as Scott has no time for doing upgrades because the Losmandy shop is running day and night to keep up due to the Covid-19 surge powered interest in our hobby. This is not going to change for maybe another year is my guess. Several years ago now my old G11 was fully updated to the latest and greatest with all the doodads but those were different times without the Covid-19 rush and it still took a few months to get me scheduled for an update slot. The other issue is that it costs money to have the updates done which is an easy calculation, add up all the features the used mount lacks and subtract that cost from the cost of a new bare mount sans tripod. If you do this you will see that unless you acquired the mount for an very low price or have owned it for several years may or may not be cost effective to upgrade. I had a mint condition G11 and I had it for a while and it was purchased at a price that allowed me to update the mount for less than buying a new one would have cost. Plus it was a valued companion so I waited and updated. My GM8 was a similar situation but I had already been waiting when Covid-19 hit so I figured out the update was just not going to ever come up for an upgrade. So I sold my trusted observing companion GM8 and bought a new GM8G to make new adventures with so now both of my mounts are current version mounts.?
Trust me, as an imager you NEED the spring loaded one pieces worm blocks. This means based on my explainatin above you basically will be buying a new Losmandy mount. If you are not an imager and have zero plans to image my advice is to buy a used Losmandy mount in the best possible condition as cheaply as possible. This means if possible no Gemini but a #492 digital drive and then spend the money for an Astro Devices Nexus DSC and use the Losmandy mount as they were designed to be used, well balanced with fairly loose clutch settings and using two fingers PUSHED-TO your destinatin using the Porter Slip Clutches with the DSC to guide you there.? ?
--
Chip Louie Chief Daydreamer Imagination Hardware?
? ?Astropheric Weather Forecast - South Pasadena, CA?
-- Brian?
Brian Valente portfolio
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Orientation of pier/riser relative to legs
A day or two ago I asked how best to achieve CWD position. Sonny replied When beginning with everything plumb from the tripod up, it is natural for the weight shaft to be centered on a North pointing tripod leg. I just realized that my tripod is set up so the counterweight shaft is between two legs, it can¡¯t be over a leg. Not that it matters that much but I think my short pier was put on incorrectly. I can take our the 6 bolts and rotate it 30? (??) so that I can put the head on with the shaft over a leg. Can someone tell me what is the correct position? Is the Gemini 2 unit supposed to be on the east or west side? The way mine came, the unit would be on the south side. The picture here seems to indicate it should be on the west side (actually north-west). Bill -- Bill Tschumy Otherwise -- Longmont, CO www.otherwise.com
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Re: Understanding a GM8 for Possible Purchase
Hi Jeff,
My name is Chip, Louie is my surname.
The main issue is the value proposition of buying a used Losmandy mount for imaging that lacks Gemini 2 and spring loaded worms. If you don't have these two key features on the mount you will not have an easy time imaging. The older mounts can always be updated but that costs time and money. The time issue is the real problem right now as Scott has no time for doing upgrades because the Losmandy shop is running day and night to keep up due to the Covid-19 surge powered interest in our hobby. This is not going to change for maybe another year is my guess. Several years ago now my old G11 was fully updated to the latest and greatest with all the doodads but those were different times without the Covid-19 rush and it still took a few months to get me scheduled for an update slot. The other issue is that it costs money to have the updates done which is an easy calculation, add up all the features the used mount lacks and subtract that cost from the cost of a new bare mount sans tripod. If you do this you will see that unless you acquired the mount for an very low price or have owned it for several years may or may not be cost effective to upgrade. I had a mint condition G11 and I had it for a while and it was purchased at a price that allowed me to update the mount for less than buying a new one would have cost. Plus it was a valued companion so I waited and updated. My GM8 was a similar situation but I had already been waiting when Covid-19 hit so I figured out the update was just not going to ever come up for an upgrade. So I sold my trusted observing companion GM8 and bought a new GM8G to make new adventures with so now both of my mounts are current version mounts.?
Trust me, as an imager you NEED the spring loaded one pieces worm blocks. This means based on my explainatin above you basically will be buying a new Losmandy mount. If you are not an imager and have zero plans to image my advice is to buy a used Losmandy mount in the best possible condition as cheaply as possible. This means if possible no Gemini but a #492 digital drive and then spend the money for an Astro Devices Nexus DSC and use the Losmandy mount as they were designed to be used, well balanced with fairly loose clutch settings and using two fingers PUSHED-TO your destinatin using the Porter Slip Clutches with the DSC to guide you there.? ?
--
Chip Louie Chief Daydreamer Imagination Hardware?
? ?Astropheric Weather Forecast - South Pasadena, CA?
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Re: Declination "Motor Stalled" warning on G11/G-1
On 1/24/2021 4:35 PM, Brian Valente wrote: i would just use some deoxit on the contacts That has always been my first line of attack on an intermittent contact ;) Started using it back before it was called DeOxIt..... it used to be called Cramolin. Caig Labs makes some miraculous claims for it but I suspect its greatest strength is that it forms a molecular film that prevents further corrosion after some insertion / removal cycles mechanically wipes off whatever is initially preventing contact. Don't forget that intermittent contact can also be caused by things like loose contact forks, broken cable wires or cold or broken solder joints at the circuit board. Paul -- Paul Goelz Rochester Hills, MI USA pgoelz@... www.pgoelz.com
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Re: Declination "Motor Stalled" warning on G11/G-1
i would just use some deoxit on the contacts
On Sun, Jan 24, 2021 at 1:29 PM Paul Goelz < pgoelz@...> wrote: On 1/24/2021 4:17 PM, Michael Herman wrote:
> Russ,
>
> A few things can cause this behavior.
> First of all, check the motor cable both ends for any corrosion of the 6
> pins at each end.? I try to polish those connection pins up.
> Likewise the female pin contacts inside the connectors could be
> oxidized.? You might be able to put a thin round (rat-tail) file in and
> make the contacts better.
>
> So try that first.
I would be VERY careful using a file.? Most contacts are plated and
using a file on them will very likely remove some plating.? This can
expose the underlying base metal which will then corrode, making things
worse long term.
Paul
--
Paul Goelz
Rochester Hills, MI? USA
pgoelz@...
-- Brian?
Brian Valente portfolio
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Re: Declination "Motor Stalled" warning on G11/G-1
Hi Russ
there are usually two culprits of motor stall
gear binding (which is sounds like you've investigated)
low power - it sounds like this may be worth exploring. As michael said, make sure all your electrical contacts are in good shape. If your power supply is 12v, you can up the voltage to 15-18v or reduce the slew speed. GOTO engages both motors (sidereal is just RA) so it sounds like it's power-related symptoms
Brian
On Sun, Jan 24, 2021 at 1:11 PM Russell Milton < russmilt@...> wrote: Last time I used my Losmandy G11/Gemini-1, it kept giving "Motor Stalled" message when starting go-to alignment. I came to believe the problem was with the Dec motor/gear train.?
So yesterday during daylight hours, I had an opportunity to service the declination worm-gear set. I was able to tip the worm away from the worm-gear (ring-gear) without disconnecting from the drive motor. This allowed for cleaning the ring-gear of any debris that might be causing the motor to stall. An old toothbrush was used to clean each gear tooth and more uniformly distribute the lubricating grease. I see the need for a more thorough cleaning, to remove old grease and apply fresh lube. But for now I have done a quick service.
?
I used the opportunity to set the gear clearance for minimum free-play and backlash. Even though I could move the worm by hand with no resistance, upon tuning on the Losmandy G-11 electronics, I still got a "motor-stalled" warning. So I restarted and bypassed go-to alignment. Then selecting the "Sidereal" drive rate, I was able to use the hand controller to move both RA and Dec without motor stall error. Then restarting the electronics allowed for normal go-to alignment, without motor-stall errors. This led me to believe the problem was not mechanical - that is detritus where the gears meshed causing the stall. It appeared the problem was electrical or software. Now I'm hoping the mount will function properly under nighttime conditions.
Any comments, suggestions or advice would be appreciated.
Russ
-- Brian?
Brian Valente portfolio
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Re: Declination "Motor Stalled" warning on G11/G-1
On 1/24/2021 4:17 PM, Michael Herman wrote: Russ,
A few things can cause this behavior.
First of all, check the motor cable both ends for any corrosion of the 6 pins at each end.? I try to polish those connection pins up.
Likewise the female pin contacts inside the connectors could be oxidized.? You might be able to put a thin round (rat-tail) file in and make the contacts better.
So try that first. I would be VERY careful using a file. Most contacts are plated and using a file on them will very likely remove some plating. This can expose the underlying base metal which will then corrode, making things worse long term. Paul -- Paul Goelz Rochester Hills, MI USA pgoelz@... www.pgoelz.com
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Re: Declination "Motor Stalled" warning on G11/G-1
Russ,
A few things can cause this behavior. First of all, check the motor cable both ends for any corrosion of the 6 pins at each end.? I try to polish those connection pins up. Likewise the female pin contacts inside the connectors could be oxidized.? You might be able to put a thin round (rat-tail) file in and make the contacts better.
So try that first.
Another thing you can do is to reduce the motor max speed setting.? There is a digital setting for this...try reducing that and see if your stall messages go away.
Best of luck, Michael
On Sun, Jan 24, 2021 at 1:11 PM Russell Milton < russmilt@...> wrote: Last time I used my Losmandy G11/Gemini-1, it kept giving "Motor Stalled" message when starting go-to alignment. I came to believe the problem was with the Dec motor/gear train.?
So yesterday during daylight hours, I had an opportunity to service the declination worm-gear set. I was able to tip the worm away from the worm-gear (ring-gear) without disconnecting from the drive motor. This allowed for cleaning the ring-gear of any debris that might be causing the motor to stall. An old toothbrush was used to clean each gear tooth and more uniformly distribute the lubricating grease. I see the need for a more thorough cleaning, to remove old grease and apply fresh lube. But for now I have done a quick service.
?
I used the opportunity to set the gear clearance for minimum free-play and backlash. Even though I could move the worm by hand with no resistance, upon tuning on the Losmandy G-11 electronics, I still got a "motor-stalled" warning. So I restarted and bypassed go-to alignment. Then selecting the "Sidereal" drive rate, I was able to use the hand controller to move both RA and Dec without motor stall error. Then restarting the electronics allowed for normal go-to alignment, without motor-stall errors. This led me to believe the problem was not mechanical - that is detritus where the gears meshed causing the stall. It appeared the problem was electrical or software. Now I'm hoping the mount will function properly under nighttime conditions.
Any comments, suggestions or advice would be appreciated.
Russ
|
Declination "Motor Stalled" warning on G11/G-1
Last time I used my Losmandy G11/Gemini-1, it kept giving "Motor Stalled" message when starting go-to alignment. I came to believe the problem was with the Dec motor/gear train.?
So yesterday during daylight hours, I had an opportunity to service the declination worm-gear set. I was able to tip the worm away from the worm-gear (ring-gear) without disconnecting from the drive motor. This allowed for cleaning the ring-gear of any debris that might be causing the motor to stall. An old toothbrush was used to clean each gear tooth and more uniformly distribute the lubricating grease. I see the need for a more thorough cleaning, to remove old grease and apply fresh lube. But for now I have done a quick service.
?
I used the opportunity to set the gear clearance for minimum free-play and backlash. Even though I could move the worm by hand with no resistance, upon tuning on the Losmandy G-11 electronics, I still got a "motor-stalled" warning. So I restarted and bypassed go-to alignment. Then selecting the "Sidereal" drive rate, I was able to use the hand controller to move both RA and Dec without motor stall error. Then restarting the electronics allowed for normal go-to alignment, without motor-stall errors. This led me to believe the problem was not mechanical - that is detritus where the gears meshed causing the stall. It appeared the problem was electrical or software. Now I'm hoping the mount will function properly under nighttime conditions.
Any comments, suggestions or advice would be appreciated.
Russ
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I'd be fine with adding switches, especially if there were a DIY kit offered from Losmandy.? From this thread on the Gemini forum, it sounded like the functionality was built into the Gemini 2 and there was a plan to make homing switches happen.
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Re: RA Divisor on Gemini 2 G811 mount.
Hi Ed
we did a video on this
On Sun, Jan 24, 2021 at 7:36 AM Edward Beshore via <ebeshore= [email protected]> wrote: Hi.? Would someone be able to comment on how the RA and DEC divisors can be used to generate a custom tracking rate? I would be interested in this for doing ¡°track and stack¡± imagery of asteroids.?
Thanks in advance,
Ed Beshore?
-- Brian?
Brian Valente portfolio
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Re: Understanding a GM8 for Possible Purchase
I'm in the "buy new, don't inherit do-do" camp.
I'm not saying the used mount isn't a great value, it may very well be great.
But it might also have some very frustrating quirks, or wear and tear, to work around. Things you can't possibly know ahead of the actual purchase and use.
I bought new with the faith anything I encountered would be attended to.
So far, Golden! And no troubles foreseeable.
Buying new also assures one that everything is exactly as Scott Losmandy intended it to be.
Not a Chevy with a Ford water pump installed. ;^)
Your Mileage May Vary....
--
SonnyE
(I suggest viewed in full screen)
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Re: Permanent Pier Parking... behavior seems wrong
I have my configuration set to do a Cold Start, because I always want to build a new model.
I did that just to by-pass the "Prompt if not Started", which I believe is the default Boot.
How many Warm Starts, or Warm Restarts, can be done before that model being booted from becomes outdated?
(Assuming the Earth is spinning, and we are moving through space as a solar system.)
I suppose you could say I still use a Sextant, over a GPS for positioning.
(New model VS: Plate Solving) LOL! ;^)
--
SonnyE
(I suggest viewed in full screen)
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Re: RA Divisor on Gemini 2 G811 mount.
Hi. ?Would someone be able to comment on how the RA and DEC divisors can be used to generate a custom tracking rate? I would be interested in this for doing ¡°track and stack¡± imagery of asteroids.?
Thanks in advance,
Ed Beshore?
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...as far as CWD, Bill, I have a plumb bob I hang on a hook centered on the toe-saver weight stop.
It's pretty simple, just a steel fishing leader, 24" long, with a 1 ounce pyramid sinker on one end.
The weight centers over the North leg of my tripod.
When beginning with everything plumb from the tripod up, it is natural for the weight shaft to be centered on a North pointing tripod leg.
This is for initial set up, and when returning to CWD from an approximate 90¡ã swing during Polar Alignment, before doing adjustments.
Then I remove it from the hook for Modeling and operation.
Bubble levels are better than nothing. But there are better ways available.
--
SonnyE
(I suggest viewed in full screen)
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Michael Herman
Russell Milton
Bill Tschumy
Chip Louie
Aaron Lovett