Re: G1 on G-11 refuses to go to bright stars
Dear Magnus,
Having read all of your misery on this... sorry to read the problem persists.
It is quite a mystery, and I can't recall anyone else reporting that type of "interrupted" trouble from a Gemini1 or 2 before.
I have only this idea for you to try...
Because you can "interrupt" a slew by pressing a hand controller button, I have wondered if there could be an intermittent contact/short in your hand controller buttons. The question is: do you still get this error with the hand controller removed (once you set up). After setting up, you can still issue GoTos from a PC through Gemini.net.? Do you still get those Interrupted messages with the hand controller removed??? Maybe you already reported that it cannot be the hand controller... if so I apologize for asking again.
Another related question: open your Gemini-1 and unscrew the 6 hexagon shaped top panel supports.? Lift out the board inside and inspect the back of that board. Do you see any corrosion or discoloration of the traces?? I am thinking that an intermittent in there could mimic a hand controller button press.?? You can clean any discoloration with alcohol on a cotton swab.
Very best, and good luck, Michael
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Hi!
Anybody got any ideas on this situation? I feel quite lost. Last night, I was imaging M33. I made a cold start, aligned with 3 stars with mount east of pier, then 1 star with mount west of pier. THen tried to slew to M31 with the computer - OK!. Tried M33 - Interrupted. So I slewed "manually", that is, used the motion control on the computer, until the scope was at M33. Did a plate solve - which syncs (does not update the model). After that, I could slew to M33 - that is, adjusting and centering M33 now worked! Why? If the model was not synced correctly - why did it not just slew to the "wrong" place (could not be much off, given how nicely it found M31) and then update on syncing? Why "Interrupted" at first attempt, but after sync it works?
See also my previous post with images of the time and location settings - anything wrong with them?
Any ideas, suggestions, are very warmly welcome. I'm on the verge of giving up on this and rob a bank to be able to upgrade to a Gemini 2.....
Magnus
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Re: GM-11 general lubrication
The "Nuts" that the Alt and Az adjustment screws go through are brass or bronze (which is mostly brass)
J
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Re: G1 on G-11 refuses to go to bright stars
Hi!
Anybody got any ideas on this situation? I feel quite lost. Last night, I was imaging M33. I made a cold start, aligned with 3 stars with mount east of pier, then 1 star with mount west of pier. THen tried to slew to M31 with the computer - OK!. Tried M33 - Interrupted. So I slewed "manually", that is, used the motion control on the computer, until the scope was at M33. Did a plate solve - which syncs (does not update the model). After that, I could slew to M33 - that is, adjusting and centering M33 now worked! Why? If the model was not synced correctly - why did it not just slew to the "wrong" place (could not be much off, given how nicely it found M31) and then update on syncing? Why "Interrupted" at first attempt, but after sync it works?
See also my previous post with images of the time and location settings - anything wrong with them?
Any ideas, suggestions, are very warmly welcome. I'm on the verge of giving up on this and rob a bank to be able to upgrade to a Gemini 2.....
Magnus
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Re: GM-11 general lubrication
At 20:55 31-10-17, robert@... [Losmandy_users] wrote:
If anything I'd say use a speck of some kind of 'anti-seize' compound. Most of the screws are steel on aluminum, and that can gaul. Most, if not all of my knobs, have a black plastic washer on them that keeps them from getting too tight and becoming hard to unscrew.
This seems like it might be good as a preventative: (You may need to click on a flag to get the English version) Though not available in local stores, I can get it on the internet. Thanks to all for their responses. David
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Re: GM-11 general lubrication
At 03:49 03-11-17, photon_trap@... [Losmandy_users] wrote:
Brass has qualities that make it in a sense "self lubricating" (that is why it is used) anything beyond that should be a very minimal application . If that's not enough for smooth (and thus precise) movement in both axis, you have another issue (as I did on my GM8)
- Jeff
I havent encountered any moving brass/brass interfaces on the G-11. David
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Re: GM-11 general lubrication
Brass has qualities that make it in a sense "self lubricating" (that is why it is used) anything beyond that should be a very minimal application . If that's not enough for smooth (and thus precise) movement in both axis, you have another issue (as I did on my GM8)
- Jeff
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I also fixed my new Titan mount with a thrust bearing race I obtained at a
bearing sales shop. Losmandy sent another wavy washer to try to fix it, but
unfortunately no change.? But close inspection showed the surface to
surface was slightly mismatched. These bearing race are like a thin precision
washer made of steel. My new out of box Titan would not hold a 50% load. So I
measured with a $12 micrometer and bought a couple of large precision steel
bearing races. They come in very small incremental sizes. Now my? Titan
holds a 16 inch SCT with a genteel? one hand tighten, with zero worm
binding. Yes! No trying to return it from Montana.
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??? Since I had also always had struggled with my G11,
thinking it was me. It was not as severe as the Titan I have was, but I had
erratic clutch problems for years. So I tried the same fix on it.??
Success! $10 worth of steel bearing races fixed them both.
?
Leroy
????????????
???????????????????????????????????
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From: chiplouie@... [Losmandy_users]
Sent: Wednesday, November 01, 2017 11:08 PM
To: Losmandy_users@...
Subject: [Losmandy_users] Re: G11G RA Clutch
?
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Hi Rich,
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I have seen an older mount that when the clutches are tight needed an extra
thrust bearing race to shim the bearing stack on the clutch knob side of the RA
axle to give the thick black aluminum spacer enough clearance to run free and
not bind. This is not a normal situation but I have seen one like this, you need
to be able to see a little daylight between the mount and the thick black
aluminum spacer or the axles will bind. Also note that some people have had
issues with the big wavy spring washer OD (outside diameter) being a bit too
large and when used in the standard Losmandy assembled location the wavy washer
can rub on the mount housing body causing problems. Mechanically it makes more
sense to locate the wavy washer under the clutch knob which then positions the
wavy washers outside the mount body completely so even if the wavy washy is a
little bit oversize it cannot cause this problem. I hope this helps!
?
Chip
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Hi Rich,
I have seen an older mount that when the clutches are tight needed an extra thrust bearing race to shim the bearing stack on the clutch knob side of the RA axle to give the thick black aluminum spacer enough clearance to run free and not bind. This is not a normal situation but I have seen one like this, you need to be able to see a little daylight between the mount and the thick black aluminum spacer or the axles will bind. Also note that some people have had issues with the big wavy spring washer OD (outside diameter) being a bit too large and when used in the standard Losmandy assembled location the wavy washer can rub on the mount housing body causing problems. Mechanically it makes more sense to locate the wavy washer under the clutch knob which then positions the wavy washers outside the mount body completely so even if the wavy washy is a little bit oversize it cannot cause this problem. I hope this helps!
Chip
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I dunno Chip, maybe it's just my mount. ?But it is horrible cranked tight. ?So horrible that imaging isn't possible. ?It basically turns that beautiful mount into a visual only mount. ?
At this point I'm not too concerned because it's just plain working now so I'm happy. ?
BTW, your arc-sec rms is super good. ?I hope to get mine there in time. ?Still getting used to using it.
-Rich-
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Michael, my new G11G doesn't have that upper bellevue wavy washer. ?My problem was the thrust bearing down by the clutch knob. ?If it gets squeezed too tightly it makes the RA rough. ?Kinda like a wheel bearing on a car that is tightened too tight.
-Rich-
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Re: File - Guidance on Posting Documents and Pictures.doc
You have to do it yourself. Here's the link.
losmandy_users-unsubscribe@...
Don
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----- Original Message ----- From: "'George Seitz' gwsarch@... [Losmandy_users]" <Losmandy_users@...> To: <Losmandy_users@...> Sent: Wednesday, November 01, 2017 4:04 PM Subject: RE: [Losmandy_users] File - Guidance on Posting Documents and Pictures.doc Please delete me from your email.
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The open design of the Losmandy drive system makes working on it rather easy. But it leaves open the potential for airborne dust or grit to get in there and wreck havoc with the operation.?? That is just our nightmares on a clear moonless windless night... ready to image when a drive glitch appears.
I hope you sort out the trouble.? So far, I have not got that particular trouble... (did I say... so far?)
- Best? Michael?
On Wed, Nov 1, 2017 at 1:56 PM, tazercn@... [Losmandy_users] <Losmandy_users@...> wrote:
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Michael, my issue may be different than Rich's but what I'm experiencing seems like a bearing popping and some slight stiction/backlash afterwards where PHD has trouble getting RA back to the center line. Once it does it stays there nicely until it pops again. Mine's only about 2" (I'm imaging at ~0.5" ppx using an OAG) so it looks like seeing but it only happens in one direction.
Figured the stiction/backlash might be due to the Belleville washer I installed a while back (before I increased the payload) so I removed it and saw the same behavior.
Read a bit about removing backlash with the original opwb and I had been doing it by loosening one bearing block only. I figured it might be 'twisting' the bearings causing something like the old 76s error. So I took care to loosen/tighten both blocks together when adjusting backlash. Still I see the same behavior.
Next I suspected it could be related to the Oldham, so I carefully aligned the gearbox-oldham-worm axis so that it would all spin freely before installing the servo. Same behavior.
I had been thinking it was potentially grit or damage in the gearbox and was planning on replacing it with a brand new spare I have in the closet.
I was also considering putting the old bearing back in, I had upgraded to ABEC7's when I put in the Belleville washer, in case one of the new ones were damaged somehow.
I'll do the clutch test soon and see if that has any effect. I'll start off with it tight (like normal) and then incrementally back off on it until the scope starts slipping.
If that doesn't work I'll do the bearings and gearbox swap at the same time.
Mark
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Michael, my issue may be different than Rich's but what I'm experiencing seems like a bearing popping and some slight stiction/backlash afterwards where PHD has trouble getting RA back to the center line. Once it does it stays there nicely until it pops again. Mine's only about 2" (I'm imaging at ~0.5" ppx using an OAG) so it looks like seeing but it only happens in one direction.
Figured the stiction/backlash might be due to the Belleville washer I installed a while back (before I increased the payload) so I removed it and saw the same behavior.
Read a bit about removing backlash with the original opwb and I had been doing it by loosening one bearing block only. I figured it might be 'twisting' the bearings causing something like the old 76s error. So I took care to loosen/tighten both blocks together when adjusting backlash. Still I see the same behavior.
Next I suspected it could be related to the Oldham, so I carefully aligned the gearbox-oldham-worm axis so that it would all spin freely before installing the servo. Same behavior.
I had been thinking it was potentially grit or damage in the gearbox and was planning on replacing it with a brand new spare I have in the closet.
I was also considering putting the old bearing back in, I had upgraded to ABEC7's when I put in the Belleville washer, in case one of the new ones were damaged somehow.
I'll do the clutch test soon and see if that has any effect. I'll start off with it tight (like normal) and then incrementally back off on it until the scope starts slipping.
If that doesn't work I'll do the bearings and gearbox swap at the same time.
Mark
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Rich,
That sounds odd to me. When I got my updated G11 to a G11G and tested it I cranked the clutches down as usual and saw no measured changes in tracking error. I have always cranked the clutches down pretty firmly for Gemini use and imaging with very good results. Maybe I should try retesting with the clutches set looser than normal to see if the PE improves though it seems unlikely as my PE is already low when unguided and guided my G11G is 034-0.41 arcsecond range which seems good enough.?I also have tested the current draw using a precision bench power supply and there is zero difference in current draw duty cycle and lag rates when cranked down super tight and loose enough to use in PUSH-TO mode. This is on a Losmandy G11 Scott had retrofitted as fully optioned G11G spec mount with w/Gemini 2-mini and high torque servo motors.?
Chip
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Re: File - Guidance on Posting Documents and Pictures.doc
Please delete me from your email. ?
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From: Losmandy_users@... [mailto:Losmandy_users@...]
Sent: Wednesday, November 01, 2017 9:01 AM
To: Losmandy_users@...
Subject: RE: [Losmandy_users] File - Guidance on Posting Documents and Pictures.doc? ? Please delete me from your email. ? ? ?
File : Guidance on Posting Documents and Pictures.doc
Description : A few rules and comments to prevent anarchy in the files and photos section
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That's unfortunate and I don't find that clutch effect on worm gear to ring gear spacing on the old CG11 that I have, or the newer GM8.??
I wonder if it has to do with the extra new Belleville spring washer I think they installed in the newer systems.? Nothing should affect the worm as the ring gear only rides on the upper flat needle bearing system.? That is not affected by the clutch...or it should not be if the ring gear surface is flat and perpendicukar tobthe axis and parallel to the upper driven plate (Are they?)
Only you can run this experiment: see if that spring washer is in there and remove it.? You shouldn't need it anyway...it was installed to make the axis move more freely for scope balance.? Would your worm gear behavior work better (no effect of clutch knob) if the spring is removed?
Anyway, its an unwelcome puzzle to figure out.??
best, Michael?
On Nov 1, 2017 12:29 PM, " sornborger@... [Losmandy_users]" < Losmandy_users@...> wrote:
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Hope it works for you too Mark.? I can't believe the difference it has made on this mount.? For 11 days I've been struggling with this new mount and all I had to do was back off the clutch knob.? Unbelievable.
-Rich-
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Hope it works for you too Mark. ?I can't believe the difference it has made on this mount. ?For 11 days I've been struggling with this new mount and all I had to do was back off the clutch knob. ?Unbelievable.
-Rich-
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Glad you figured it out. I'm actually experiencing something similar where I'm getting 2-3" spikes in RA consistently while my DEC guiding is very solid (1-2" RMS in RA, .3-.4" in DEC). I haven't measured the spike period but 30-40 seconds sounds about right.
My only semi-recent change was putting a larger scope on, so I'm running about 40lbs of gear. Since I use the system visually, I tend to crank down on the clutches to prevent the scope from moving when I change eyepieces (heavy ones anyway). I bet I've got the clutches way too tight.
I'll chime in with my results as well when I get a chance to setup again.
Thanks again for sharing your experiences and solutions.
Mark
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Re: File - Guidance on Posting Documents and Pictures.doc
You have to go to Losmandy Yahoo Groups and delete yourself.
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On 11/1/2017 12:01 PM, 'George Seitz' gwsarch@... [Losmandy_users] wrote: Please delete me from your email.
*From:*Losmandy_users@... [mailto:Losmandy_users@...]
*Sent:* Tuesday, October 31, 2017 8:23 PM
*To:* Losmandy_users@...
*Subject:* [Losmandy_users] File - Guidance on Posting Documents and Pictures.doc
File : Guidance on Posting Documents and Pictures.doc
Description : A few rules and comments to prevent anarchy in the files and photos section
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Re: File - Guidance on Posting Documents and Pictures.doc
Please delete me from your email. ?
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From: Losmandy_users@... [mailto:Losmandy_users@...]
Sent: Tuesday, October 31, 2017 8:23 PM
To: Losmandy_users@...
Subject: [Losmandy_users] File - Guidance on Posting Documents and Pictures.doc? ?
File : Guidance on Posting Documents and Pictures.doc
Description : A few rules and comments to prevent anarchy in the files and photos section
|
Michael Herman
photon_trap