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Amnesty papers
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Zbigniew Bob Styrna
开云体育Stefan, ? I agree, it is nice to see a ‘amnesty ‘ paper posted on our site and with a translation. I don’t think there was any ‘disagreement’ weather children or women or old men were ‘granted’ ‘amnesty papers. ? My point was that, there might have been, and there certainly was a signed agreement to free enslaved all Polish citizens. ?These papers were signed by the top Polish and Russian powers at the time. However, in practice, it was almost impossible for people to be free and “LEAVE” Siberia or Russia.? It’s not like one could leave on July 30, 1941 when the agreement was signed and travel 5,000 miles with no food , tickets, etc. ? I will try to explain myself again. 1)?????? In late Aug, 1940, a month after signed agreement, Polish people working in these slave camps were asked if they wanted amnesty papers. And they were given these papers if asked for.? My mother and her family received amnesty papers each. 2)?????? These slave camps had production work deliverable quotas. ?So the commandants asked all people if they got their amnesty papers would they stay and work of would they leave.?? If they chose to “leave”, then these people’s food rations were CUT-OFF immediately and they were told to go without any money, food, provisions , no train tickets, or help.? They were just kicked out of the camps.? Many people in her concentration camp were so eager to leave that they chose to leave at once and they received such treatment. Her family however, indicated that they would stay and work and they continued to be fed their meager rations. My mom’s brother, who was young, strong and foolish, like all young men are, decided to leave his family behind and try to find this secret, mysterious rumor of a Polish army being formed.? So he left with two other young men.? My mom’s family was incredibly distraught to see him leave in November in 1941.? The onset of winter. 3)?????? Along with the “amnesty ‘ papers my relatives received, there also received a document my mom said called a “Warunki”. In this it stated that even though they were released from these slave camps, they were not allowed to go anywhere near large towns/cities, near any military area, front lines, borders, etc.. 4)?????? In March 1942, my mom’s family finally decided to leave their “lagier”. Even though they promised the commandant that they would stay and work, they escaped the camp at night time.? All the time fearing for their lives. They were “kind” of free to go but there were lots of conditions. Most of the trains were allocated for the war effort so it’s nit like there were passenger trains on scheduled routes, etc.. 5)?????? They managed to jump on a cattle train, like hobos used to in USA, they managed to get to Chelyabinsk.? At this station all their possessions were stolen. Gone was s suitcase with everything in it including all the amnesty papers.? My grandfather died along the way and was thrown off the train. 6)?????? But they managed to get to the Kazakhstan border at Bukhara. There her brother –in-law got very sick with typhoid and he was taken to the local hospital. His wife, my mom’s sister, was left behind outside the hospital. She never saw him again till 6 years later. Turns out , even though he was sick they took him to the army and left her behind. While in Bukhara, she could into go further south and within a few weeks the Russians closed the border and they shipped her/them back from Kazakhstan north into Russia. Not as far as Siberia this time. But back into Russia where my mom and her sister spent another 4 years slaving in a desolate “kolhoz”.? They lost all hope. 7)?????? My mom’s brother and brother in-law were allowed and did join the Polish army.? My mother and her sister never joined any army or somehow ?were not allowed to be part of it and escape. ? My point was that like the Eagle’s song goes, “..you can check out anytime you like, but you can’t ever leave…” ? So that is why so many hundred’s of thousands of Polish people died trying to get out. They were all clutching this silly piece of worthless paper trying to get south, and hopefully what ?? It was not until later when some got down there to places like Buzuluk, that it was decided to escape with the Polish formed army south out of Russia. ? Oddly enough, my father’s family (mom, dad brothers and sisters) ?was also in the same Siberian slave camp. However, they decided not to leave and go south.? They all managed to live and moved back to Poland after the war. ? Regards ? Zbyszek ? ? ? -----Original
Message----- From: Stefan Wisniowski
[mailto:swisniowski@...]
Sent: 10 pa?dziernika 2004 00:33 To: Kresy-Siberia@... Subject: Re: [Kresy-Siberia] udostovyerenye?? ? This amnesty for
Kazimierz Morawski and his daughter Barbara helps inform an earlier discussion
whether the women and children were amnestied as well, not just the men of
military age.
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Stefan Wisniowski
Hi Zbyszek,
Your point on the camp commanders being reluctant to let their labour pool go rings true. And it took months for news of the amnesty and/or for paperwork to reach the camps. My family was not released until December 1941 and made their way south as well; it is on this trip south (near Aktiubinsk) that my grandfather died from frostbite in January 1942, which he contracted clutching a pot of soup for the family while hanging on to the outside of their train carriage in the bitter cold. NB 1941 not 1940? -- Stefan Wisniowski (moderator) Sydney, Australia 1) ??????In late Aug, 1940, a month after signed agreement, Polish people working in these slave camps were asked if they wanted amnesty papers. |
开云体育Hello Stefan
Yes as you say it was like that with us also-I lost
my father in a similar way in early March 1941 -he contracted dble pneumonia
whil hanging and standing on the platform of the gurds van as train travelled
through a long distance in Turkiestan.
I thinkit must also be realised that although the
amnesty was in July 1941 it was no good to all those with families- only single
people could leave early;they took a risk. The families had to stay behind in
spite of having received their papers after a month's wait from NKVD
headqurters. While waiting we tried to save rations by drying bread, fish and
going to the nearest village to exchange any goods we had for little
cash-rubbles-as they were crucial in this operation.We also asked for extra
parcels from my grandfather in Belarus(as present) speciffically for machorka
*tobacco* which was like gold in the west.
The logistics were enormous and it was all due to
my mother,as my father worked extra shifts when he was able.
Then there was a queue for the transport from the
local villages. We all waited for horse drawn sleighs as and when the klochz
could spare them. The travel was so different to that in the west. All pass.
trains were alloted to the military. One must remember that the Germans were
advancing eastwards and near big towns the air raids disrupted the
transport.
?
Regards.
antoni530
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Generally speaking, at least this seems to be the case at the camp my
family were released from (Monastryok nr Kotlas), those that waited before leaving often fared better than those who left as soon as the opportunity presented itself. The first prisoners at my families camp were released in September, my family left in October. The Camp commandant read out the list of the names of those who could leave - it was not everybody at the same time. Some who could have left did so only in December 1941 / January 1942. Those that did this often fared better as by the time they had reached "the south" in some cases they managed to leave in the first evacuations in March 1942. Others like my family, who arrived in "the south" during December 1941 / January 1942 were usually sent to communal farms where they became progressively weaker and my family (with the exception of my Uncle) missed the March evacuations. During the next 6 months my grandmother became weaker and weaker and eventually died in Krasnavodsk right on the eve of the final evacuations in August - she was literally carried away from the beach. The next day, her children boarded the oil tanker to Pahlevi. So the choice of whether to go or stay in the camps must have been a terrible decision to make for all of our relatives. Michael Kulik Walsall England In Kresy-Siberia@..., "ANTONI KAZIMIERSKI" <askazimierski@b...> wrote: I think it must also be realised that although the amnesty was inJuly 1941 it was no good to all those with families- only single people could leave early;they took a risk. The families had to stay behind in spite of having received their papers after a month's wait from NKVD headqurters. While waiting we tried to save rations by drying bread, fish and going to the nearest village to exchange any goods we had for little cash-rubbles-as they were crucial in this operation. |
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Zbigniew Bob Styrna
开云体育Stefan, ? Yes 1941 not 1940.? Thanks.? Seems a lot of people died near this Aktyubinsk, yours and my grandfathers.? It was a sad time . ? Regards ? Zbyszek ? -----Original
Message----- From: Stefan Wisniowski
[mailto:swisniowski@...]
Sent: October 13, 2004 1:58 AM To: Kresy-Siberia@... Subject: Re: [Kresy-Siberia] Amnesty papers ? Hi
Zbyszek, |
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Zbigniew Bob Styrna
开云体育Antoni530, ? Thanks for your interesting account.? ? You mention “machortka” (tobacco).? Have you very heard of “Kuriski”?? Not sure I have the spelling correct. ? Zbyszek ? -----Original
Message----- From: ANTONI KAZIMIERSKI
[mailto:askazimierski@...]
Sent: October 13, 2004 3:09 AM To: Kresy-Siberia@... Subject: Re: [Kresy-Siberia] Amnesty papers ? Hello Stefan Yes as you say it was like that with us also-I lost my father in a similar way in early March 1941 -he contracted dble pneumonia whil hanging and standing on the platform of the gurds van as train travelled through a long distance in Turkiestan. I thinkit must also be realised that although the amnesty was in July 1941 it was no good to all those with families- only single people could leave early;they took a risk. The families had to stay behind in spite of having received their papers after a month's wait from NKVD headqurters. While waiting we tried to save rations by drying bread, fish and going to the nearest village to exchange any goods we had for little cash-rubbles-as they were crucial in this operation.We also asked for extra parcels from my grandfather in Belarus(as present) speciffically for machorka *tobacco* which was like gold in the west. The logistics were enormous and it was all due to my mother,as my father worked extra shifts when he was able. Then there was a queue for the transport from the local villages. We all waited for horse drawn sleighs as and when the klochz could spare them. The travel was so different to that in the west. All pass. trains were alloted to the military. One must remember that the Germans were advancing eastwards and near big towns the air raids disrupted the transport. ? Regards. antoni530 ----- Original Message -----
From: Stefan
Wisniowski
Sent: Wednesday, October 13, 2004 10:57 AM Subject: Re: [Kresy-Siberia] Amnesty papers ? Hi
Zbyszek, |