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India to Mexico

Stefan Wisniowski
 

Kent

Would be a great story. ?Although I believe that we should recognise that the US was generous enough to transport and feed these refugees from India to Mexico... ?interested members might visit the Colonia Santa Rosa collection in our gallery for some historical documentation...

http://www.aforgottenodyssey.com/gallery/albums.php?&set_albumListPage=2

Stefan Wisniowski


From: Kent Christensen
[...]
To include perhaps tales of a US troopship filled with women and
children going to Los Angeles and perhaps some analysis why the USA
wouldn't take refugees but Mexico did.

Seems this list could come up with a script storyboard that would
prove quite interesting.

Kent Christensen
Albuquerque, NM, USA


Re: History Channel

Kent Christensen
 

re: Has anyone in the group tried to suggest to the History Channel
to do a program on Kresy_Siberia??? (Zyg)


To include perhaps tales of a US troopship filled with women and
children going to Los Angeles and perhaps some analysis why the USA
wouldn't take refugees but Mexico did.

Seems this list could come up with a script storyboard that would
prove quite interesting.

Kent Christensen
Albuquerque, NM, USA


Re: Jews in Anders Army & Polish Holocaust website

tomasz iwanowski
 

a link on '...walki Zydow w roznych wojskach na swiecie ...'

Tomasz Iwanowski






--- Tilford Bartman <bartmant@...> wrote: >

Eve5J@... wrote:

Sheila -
I was not aware that when a Jew became a Communist, they could somehow
magically stop being a Jew. According to you, a real Jew would never
go Red. According to you, only "assimilated Jews" did this--never a
true Jew, alluding that assimilated Jews should be excused from the
sin of becoming Communists since they were assimilated? Very
interesting concept, but it is true that many Jews from all walks of
life did in fact become Communists, did in fact "push" the deportees
on the trains, were responsible for the roundups and fingerpointing
causing deportation, were members of the NKVD, did brutally torture,
and more. Some of these same Jews were later: deported themselves
after being duped by the Soviets into doing their dirty work, killed
by the Soviets in the fifties (some after attaining high rank in the
Communist party), or murdered by the Nazis. After the Poles were
gotten rid of, these Communist Jews were often given Polish homes in
which they and their families lived! Some of these very same
Communist Jews managed to escape both the Soviets and Nazis and later
fled Poland and the USSR, joining the Anders army and their fellow
countrymen who they had previously turned on, and then promptly
deserted this Army. To these I say, "to each his own," but please do
not write such horrific, inflammatory anti-Polish statements. I found
your post to this list highly offensive.

You wrote that the author of the memoir passed the fitness tests. I
am quite certain that if he had in fact passed the fitness tests, he
would have been accepted into the Polish Army Under British Command.
My own grandfather was initially accepted into the Anders Army, but
was prevented from leaving the Middle East to participate in the
fighting in Europe. All people, after their incarceration, were in
very poor physical condition. The vast majority were at death's door;
there were many that did not make it into the Army, but you will not
hear them falsely justifying their nonacceptance by cries of
anti-Semitism.

It is highly ironic that at this very time of induction into the Army,
people died by the hundreds of thousands while waiting at the
induction points. Many died immediately after their Army induction.
Many also died upon stepping onto free Persian soil. Not only did
physical fitness tests have to be passed, but also health
examinations. Many were turned away of all ethnicities! It is a
wonder that any were in fact accepted into this Army! The entire Army
required months of rehabilitation before joining the fight due to
starvation and disease.

You did not give the url for the site you referred to in your post,
but if it is "Poland's Holocaust,"
, our late group member
Chris Gladun's website, this site really opened my eyes, and this was
also my family's war history. As you can see from the pictures at
this excellent site, the Jewish people were not the only living
skeletons during the war! Chris's site is a lasting legacy and
testament to what occurred.

Please realize that there are good and bad people of all ethnicities
and religions, including the Jewish. It has always seemed very odd to
me that while our grandparents' generation lived, one never read such
statements from either Jew or Pole. Now that those who were true
adults during the war have died and can no longer speak for
themselves, there are some who are trying their absolute hardest to
rewrite the truthful history of that most awful time in which ALL
Polish citizens suffered greatly. Now usually when the truth is
bravely written, cries of
"anti-Semitism" are inevitably heard.

Eve Jesionka Jankowicz
Can't resist adding my two cents, but right now do not have a lot of
time for a lengthy reply.

Not only are there some bad people of all ethnicity's. Even more more
sadly there were during this horrible time essentially good people both
among ethnically Polish and ethnically Jewish who did bad things. This
is the lousy truth!

What's needed now 60 plus years latter is a little more understanding
and less blaming but the former is most often in short supply.

I'm Jewish and the Jewish side of this issue I understand very well,
including the sad fact that among the Jews the Soviets found many of
their collaborators, while large segments of the Jewish population were
very skeptical that any good would come of this new order and some even
quietly opposed it, given their situation many initially saw little
alternative than to hope for the best from it, but it very quickly
became clear that their best hopes would not be realized in this
situation. Many Jews were arrested and sent East by a fellow Jew. I
think had what came next (the Nazi holocaust) not been such a
cataclysmic and overshadowing event this entire issue of "Red Jews"would
have gotten even more attention and open discussion in Jewish sources.
Unfortunately due in part to a long history of propaganda and pretty
gross distortions about this issue by people who obviously have no good
intentions toward Jews as a group, many Jews are very sensitive about
this subject and dismiss it all as anti semitic trash not realizing that
there are some real issues there.

The Polish end of this I know less well though I have learned some
stuff. I try to understand and not be too quick to judge or blame, but
of course sometimes it is hard. I've seen Chris Gladun's site and it is
very well done and a powerful testimony that I can relate to on a
personal and human level. Some of the material there while likely to be
uncomfortable for Jews, is not from what I've seen pointedly anti
semitic. I would have to admit to frankly not being knowledgeable enough
to know if the information there pertaining to involvement of Jewish
people in Soviet crimes in question is always accurate or beyond
reasonable dispute.

Anyway this is my two cents, and I have no more time to devote to this
right now.

Tilford Bartman, www.zabludow.com
______________________________________________________________________
Post your free ad now!


Re: (unknown)

 

Dear Jagna,

I read your message with great interest as I am only recently learning/understanding some of the complex issues of this period of history. You spoke of the failure to receive compensation from the Polish governments. Forgive my ignorance, but why would compensation not be sought from the Soviets, as it was they who took the property and imposed communist regimes?

Regards, Ken Fedzin.


Finally, the thorny issue of property¡­ Both my parents, as well as ALL their friends
who come from the area near Lwow, lost their property irrevocably when the Soviets
came; their houses with all their contents, their land, orchards, livestock ¨C all that
their families worked for for generations. I am sure this is the situation of most
members of this group. Despite years of appeals to the Polish governments for some
kind of compensation, so far they have not seen a penny¡­.
Similarly, most people who owned houses on the territory of today¡¯s Poland, lost
them after the war to the communists ¨C and, again, many members of my own family
did not get a penny of compensation; ironically, they spent years passing their own houses every day without the right to enter them; they were occupied by strangers assigned by the communist government...
Like the Jewish people who have lost their property they seem to be fighting a losing battle, and are quite bitter about it. But the truth is that after the WW2 devastation, and then years of waste and poverty under communism, Poland today is a very poor country
and simply cannot afford to put wrongs to right.


Re: Memories of WWII!

 

Well done and a resounding YES to keepinf memory and info flowing.
I will be in Orlando Disney to sing for Thanksgiving
God Bless you all



Bye 4 now Hela.





From: Casimir Majewski <kmaj31@...>
Reply-To: Kresy-Siberia@...
To: Kresy-Siberia@...
Subject: [Kresy-Siberia] Memories of WWII!
Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2003 17:41:04 -0800 (PST)

Hello All:
Last week I was in St. Petersburg, Florida. I happen to be invited to be on panel discussion on the occasion of Veteran's Day, at Stetson University Law School. This discussion was sponsored by the Dept. of Graduate & International Studies at this University. Four people were on the panel, all survivors of WWII in one way or another. There was a Hungarian, now a Judge in the US; an American pilot who flew a U.S. B-24 bombing mission over Europe; a German Luftwaffe pilot now living in Florida and myself a Pole survivor of Kresy-Siberia. We four, told our story. I related my experiences and was very well received an appreciated by the Law students. In fact I am invited to repeat my story to the Law faculty in February. I am always proud to speak about my past and about the past of the thousands of other people like myself that have endured this odyssey.We must not forget and generations to come must be told.
Cas, Milford, CT USA



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(No subject)

 

Dear Sheila,
It is a pity that you treat the Polish-Jewish topic in such emotional
terms: such an attitude seems only to confirm the unhealthy prejudices rather than try
to find the real understanding of the problems ¨C the only way to healing past wounds.
You may well have found ¡®Go My Son¡¯ an upsetting read, but I have talked to many Jews, who described NORMAL, POSITIVE experiences of Jews in the Anders Army ¨C as indeed there are many books written in the spirit of admirable objectivity about the Holocaust itself. It is just the question of being interested in reading them AS WELL.
I am going to post on A Forgotten Odyssey website a selection of documents from
The Sikorski Institute in London, which show beyond any doubt that it was the
Soviets who forbade the Polish army to take Jews on and evacuate them from Russia. Those 4.000 who managed to get out were either on ¡®special permission¡¯, extracted from the Soviets by the efforts of the Polish authorities, or were ¡®smuggled out¡¯ at the risk to the rest of the deportees in the convoys. All this is in the documents ¨C as
well as a determined fight of the Poles for their citizens of Jewish origin to be let out.
We must also remember that the number of people allowed to leave Russia with gen Anders was a drop in the ocean, and that thousands upon thousands of men, women and
children ¨C some of them Jewish, but mostly Polish ¨C were left behind, to continue
their suffering for a few more years. My own grandfather, who made his way from
a labour camp, was also left behind, as, at the age of 56, he was ¡®too old¡¯ for the army ¨C
and he was a Polish judge, and a catholic!
Finally, the thorny issue of property¡­ Both my parents, as well as ALL their friends
who come from the area near Lwow, lost their property irrevocably when the Soviets
came; their houses with all their contents, their land, orchards, livestock ¨C all that
their families worked for for generations. I am sure this is the situation of most
members of this group. Despite years of appeals to the Polish governments for some
kind of compensation, so far they have not seen a penny¡­.
Similarly, most people who owned houses on the territory of today¡¯s Poland, lost
them after the war to the communists ¨C and, again, many members of my own family
did not get a penny of compensation; ironically, they spent years passing their own houses every day without the right to enter them; they were occupied by strangers assigned by the communist government...
Like the Jewish people who have lost their property they seem to be fighting a losing battle, and are quite bitter about it. But the truth is that after the WW2 devastation, and then years of waste and poverty under communism, Poland today is a very poor country
and simply cannot afford to put wrongs to right. This has nothing to do with anti-Semitism ¨C after all, the present Government has several high ranking members who
are of Jewish origin, who, despite that fact, have been elected, time and time again,
in free and democratic elections by the allegedly rabidly anti-Semitic electorate.
I think the above facts are available in books and essays, it is just the question of
looking for the ¡®whole picture¡¯ of those complex and tragic times, rather than extricating
personal experiences and generalizing them, thus making them into purely ¡®Jewish issues¡¯.
I am now researching the subject, and will get in touch when I have completed a list of reading which might interest you.
Finally, I wanted to stress I am always appalled by anti-Semitic statements, wherever they are (funnily enough, I hear them more in England than in Poland), and always try to make a stand against them ¨C as I try to stand up against unfair or inaccurate accusations
against the Poles. Prejudices are always wrong ¨C either way.
All the best,
Jagna


Re: A Forgotten Oydssey Site - photos on the site

Stefan Wisniowski
 

Try Gallery (photos, documents) : http://www.aforgottenodyssey.com/gallery/

From: "Vantom"

Yes, I can't seem to get into photos on the site properly unless a use a link provided in previous e-mails. ?I don't know whether this is a fault on the site or I'm just looking in the wrong place.
Vanessa


Re: Jews in Anders Army & Polish Holocaust website

Tilford Bartman
 

¿ªÔÆÌåÓý



Eve5J@... wrote:
Sheila -
I was not aware that when a Jew became a Communist, they could somehow magically stop being a Jew.?? According to you, a real Jew would never go Red.? According to you, only "assimilated Jews" did this--never a true Jew, alluding that assimilated Jews should be excused from the sin of becoming Communists since they were assimilated?? Very interesting concept, but it is true that many Jews from all walks of life did in fact become Communists, did in fact "push" the deportees on the trains, were responsible for the roundups and fingerpointing causing deportation, were members of the NKVD, did brutally torture, and more.? Some of these same Jews were later:? deported themselves after being duped by the Soviets into doing their dirty work, killed by the Soviets in the fifties (some after attaining high rank in the Communist party), or murdered by the Nazis.? After the Poles were gotten rid of, these Communist Jews were often given Polish homes in which they and their families lived!? Some of these very same Communist Jews managed to escape both the Soviets and Nazis and later fled Poland and the USSR, joining the Anders army and their fellow countrymen who they had previously turned on, and then promptly deserted this Army.? To these I say, "to each his own," but please do not write such horrific, inflammatory anti-Polish statements.? I found your post to this list highly offensive.

You wrote that the author of the memoir passed the fitness tests.? I am quite certain that if he had in fact passed the fitness tests, he would have been accepted into the Polish Army Under British Command.? My own grandfather was initially accepted into the Anders Army, but was prevented from leaving the Middle East to participate in the fighting in Europe.? All people, after their incarceration, were in very poor physical condition.? The vast majority were at death's door; there were many that did not make it into the Army, but you will not hear them falsely justifying their nonacceptance by cries of anti-Semitism.?

It is highly ironic that at this very time of induction into the Army, people died by the hundreds of thousands while waiting at the induction points.? Many died immediately after their Army induction.? Many also died upon stepping onto free Persian soil.? Not only did physical fitness tests have to be passed, but also health examinations.? Many were turned away of all ethnicities!? It is a wonder that any were in fact accepted into this Army!? The entire Army required months of rehabilitation before joining the fight due to starvation and disease.

You did not give the url for the site you referred to in your post, but if it is "Poland's Holocaust," , our late group member Chris Gladun's website, this site really opened my eyes, and this was also my family's war history.? As you can see from the pictures at this excellent site, the Jewish people were not the only living skeletons during the war!? Chris's site is a lasting legacy and testament to what occurred.?

Please realize that there are good and bad people of all ethnicities and religions, including the Jewish.? It has always seemed very odd to me that while our grandparents' generation lived, one never read such statements from either Jew or Pole.? Now that those who were true adults during the war have died and can no longer speak for themselves, there are some who are trying their absolute hardest to rewrite the truthful history of that most awful time in which ALL Polish citizens suffered greatly.? Now usually when the truth is bravely written, cries of
"anti-Semitism" are inevitably heard.

Eve Jesionka Jankowicz


Can't resist adding my two cents, but right now do not have a lot of time for a lengthy reply.

Not only are there some bad people of all ethnicity's. Even more more sadly there were during this horrible time essentially good people both among ethnically Polish and ethnically Jewish who did bad things. This is the lousy truth!

What's needed now 60 plus years latter is a little more understanding and less blaming but the former is most often in short supply.

I'm Jewish and the Jewish side of this issue I understand very well, including the sad fact that among the Jews the Soviets found many of their collaborators, while large segments of the Jewish population were very skeptical that any good would come of this new order and some even quietly opposed it, given their situation many initially saw little alternative than to hope for the best from it, but it very quickly became clear that their best hopes would not be realized in this situation.? Many Jews were arrested and sent East by a fellow Jew. I think had what came next (the Nazi holocaust) not been such a cataclysmic and overshadowing event this entire issue of "Red Jews"would have gotten even more attention and open discussion in Jewish sources. Unfortunately due in part to a long history of propaganda and pretty gross distortions about this issue by people who obviously have no good intentions toward Jews as a group, many Jews are very sensitive about this subject and dismiss it all as anti semitic trash not realizing that there are some real issues there.

The Polish end of this I know less well though I have learned some stuff. I try to understand and not be too quick to judge or blame, but of course sometimes it is hard. I've seen Chris Gladun's site and it is very well done and a powerful testimony that I can relate to on a personal and human level. Some of the material there while likely to be uncomfortable for Jews, is not from what I've seen pointedly anti semitic. I would have to admit to frankly not being knowledgeable enough to know if the information there pertaining to involvement of Jewish people in Soviet crimes in question is always accurate or beyond reasonable dispute.

Anyway this is my two cents, and I have no more time to devote to this right now.

Tilford Bartman,


Re: Jews in Anders Army & Polish Holocaust website

 

Hello Group:

My commentary: Both communists and facists were excellent
provocateurs and what Sheila calls her "grouse" lives up to those
standards.

Sincerely,
Halina Trevelyan


--- In Kresy-Siberia@..., "Sheila GROSSNASS" <s@g...>
wrote:
Dear Kresy-Siberia Group
There has been a lot of interest in the subject of Jews in Anders
Army and I
would like to add "my bit" for the interest and information of the
group.
There is a wonderful book written by Chaim Shapiro called "Go My
Son"
published a few years ago by Feldheim Publishers, N.Y. USA in
which he
writes about his struggle to be accepted into the Anders Army and
what he
came up against as a Jew! After travelling halfway across
Russia and
passing all the fitness tests, he and many others was given a
document
saying that he was not accepted.
Read it for yourself and you will see what happened and what the
attitude
towards Jews really was!
Re: Polish Holocaust website: -
I came across this by first finding Stalin's Ethnic Cleansing on
Google and
then going into "links" and clicking on Poland's Holocaust.
After scrolling down "excerpts & Selections" to Page 2, I came
across a lot
of anti-semitic statements which are totally untrue and
unproven. There
were no separate Jewish brigades in the Red Army who would go
around
murdering Poles! Of course, there were many communists who were
formally
of Jewish origin but they had long given up being Jews and were
totally
assimilated! At one time Stalin used Jews to inform on Jews -
but there
was no question of murder and torture!
At the same time look at what has happened in Poland today, after
the
holocaust! All Jewish property belonging to those murdered and
to the
present day survivors is being used today by Poles! Survivors
relate how
some went back to their homes after they had lost their whole
families and
were murdered there by Poles who were afraid they would have to
give up
someone else's property! We can go on and on about this
subject - and the
Polish Government today is doing nothing about Jewish Property!
Sorry to
be such a grouse - but these are the facts. My family, too, own
property in
Poland - which we have no access to!
Best wishes
Sheila


History Channel

zyggy_2002
 

Has anyone in the group tried to suggest to the History Channel to do
a program on Kresy_Siberia???

I recently send an email to the History Channel (for those who might
might not know, it is a TV cable channel that does historical shows.
Link is ) suggesting that they do a
progam on Poles sent to Siberia. They "cordially" replied (see
below) . Maybe if more Kresy-Siberia members would email to the
History Channel they might consider it important enogh to show.

Zyg


Dear Mr. Martynowicz,

Thank you for your recent e-mail regarding programming on The History
Channel.

We also appreciate the program suggestion mentioned in your e-mail.
We
will certainly keep your ideas in mind as we acquire future
programming for
The History Channel. Viewer correspondence is the best way for us to
know
what subjects interest our viewers.

Cordially,
Viewer Relations
thc.viewerrelations@...


Re: Jews in Anders Army & Polish Holocaust website

romed46
 

Dear Sheila,
I did not read the book Go My Son, but will as soon as I can find it,
but let me add my two cents to the discussion. On July 28,1942 I, and
hundreds of other ex-Polish citizens, arrived by train to Guzar and
were marched to the Polish Army camp on the ouskirts of the town.
After checking our identities we were deloused, given uniforms and
assigned to tents. On Aug. 4,1942 we faced the selection commission,
which included medical check-up, and we were assigned to the various
branches of the army. Sick people were taken to the field hospital.
At no time we were required to pass a fitness test.
In the morning of Aug. 9,1942 I was at the Polish Army Headquarters
in the town of Guzar and I heard the orderly corporal Begin tell the
commanding colonel that some Jews were willing to pay one half pound
of gold to be accepted into the Polish Army. I asume that if some of
them did this then they had the right to leave the army once they
reached Persia or Palestine, and should not be considered deserters.

Regards,

Roman




-- In Kresy-Siberia@..., "Sheila GROSSNASS" <s@g...>
wrote:
Dear Kresy-Siberia Group
There has been a lot of interest in the subject of Jews in Anders
Army and I
would like to add "my bit" for the interest and information of the
group.
There is a wonderful book written by Chaim Shapiro called "Go My
Son"
published a few years ago by Feldheim Publishers, N.Y. USA in which
he
writes about his struggle to be accepted into the Anders Army and
what he
came up against as a Jew! After travelling halfway across Russia
and
passing all the fitness tests, he and many others was given a
document
saying that he was not accepted.
Read it for yourself and you will see what happened and what the
attitude
towards Jews really was!
Re: Polish Holocaust website: -
I came across this by first finding Stalin's Ethnic Cleansing on
Google and
then going into "links" and clicking on Poland's Holocaust.
After scrolling down "excerpts & Selections" to Page 2, I came
across a lot
of anti-semitic statements which are totally untrue and unproven.
There
were no separate Jewish brigades in the Red Army who would go around
murdering Poles! Of course, there were many communists who were
formally
of Jewish origin but they had long given up being Jews and were
totally
assimilated! At one time Stalin used Jews to inform on Jews - but
there
was no question of murder and torture!
At the same time look at what has happened in Poland today, after
the
holocaust! All Jewish property belonging to those murdered and
to the
present day survivors is being used today by Poles! Survivors
relate how
some went back to their homes after they had lost their whole
families and
were murdered there by Poles who were afraid they would have to
give up
someone else's property! We can go on and on about this subject -
and the
Polish Government today is doing nothing about Jewish Property!
Sorry to
be such a grouse - but these are the facts. My family, too, own
property in
Poland - which we have no access to!
Best wishes
Sheila


Polscy Chlopcy

Anne Kaczanowski
 

Thanks to all who showed interest in my poem.? Your emails have touched my heart, and am pleased that so many people were able to hear these words in groups with each other, and perhaps learn from them as?they were feeling?some emotion.?In a group it has to lead to some sort of discussion.? I know many people who are not interested in picking up a history book to read about?the Polish past....many know nothing of it.....I'm neither a ?historian, or? a writer, but if my poem can spark an interest in anyone who reads it, or hears it, then I have touched someone who will eventually pass something from this on to someone else or ask a question. Many people know nothing of the gulags.
?
??The feedback I have recieved from this is just unbelievable.?I, too have made many copies at peoples' requests.? I even laminate my own artwork on the cover for them and bind them.? The Polish Combatant society here say they can use it anytime, not just for Rememberence Day.? I am proud that it can be passed on in this manner and perhaps open a new conversation amongst the younger ones who might show greater interest in the lives of their grandparents while they are still alive.???Even in the combatant societies, the members are getting older and perhaps their?reason for being here needs to be sparked up a bit.?I think for many of them just to have heard these words on Rememberence Day touched their hearts in a very special way?and gave them hope that their story will not die with them.
?
I wrote these words for my Dad, but this could be anyone's father or grandfather from that time.? Perhaps someone who lost their Dad or Grandad, and never really had a chance to ask about his past can reflect on his life a little bit through my words and feel his spirit.
?
For those who could not open attatchements, I am printing the poem in text form and correcting Polski to Polscy.
?
For those people who do not speak Polish
Polscy Chlopcy means Polish men.
Kresowiacy means the people who inhabited the Kresylands
Swiety Boze i Matko Boska means Holy Father and Mother of God.
Archangel was a district in northern frozen Russia where gulags and forced labour camps were very common.
?
It is never too late to put a poppy on and pour yourself a shot of vodka.
?
?
Polscy Chlopcy
By Hania Kaczanowska
?

"Lest We Forget" was boldly printed on the card
To honour those who died for their countries while standing guard.
They were men and boys, young and old, weak and strong,
And each one was to be remembered with patriotic song.
?
As long as I can remember, Nov. 11th was your special day.
You shined up your war medals and donned your beret.
As veterans paid tribute with wreaths of poppies upon the square,
You proudly saluted the heavens to all the soldiers there.
?
With old trembling hands you held your card and thought to years gone by.
And every time the trumpets roared, I saw the tears that filled your eyes.
What were you thinking that brought you such pain?
Were you remembering Polscy Chlopcy that died in vain?
?
Or were you thinking of your own sorrow and how this all began
Because of greed and hatred, best expressed by man.
Were your tears for your little village and all that was once yours?
Or were your tears for the broken dreams snatched away by war.
?

Germany was creating havoc and Poland knew there might be trouble in sight
But she was assured there would be help, if she needed to fight.
Great America and England promised if needed they'd rise to the plate
But instead sat silent while Poland's defeat became your fate.
?
Were your tears for the broken promises made man to man?
Or for how meaningless had become the shake of one's hand?
Germans abounded from the west and the army was ready for almighty war
But as they were pushed back, from the east came something more.
?
On Sept 17, 1939, the Rusks like hungry vultures awaiting their prey
Swarmed all around you with bayonets and for being Polish, you'd pay.
They occupied quickly and took Lwow, Wilno and Luck
What did a young peasant boy know of promises the Nazi's had made to the Rusks?
?
In the cold of winter, they knocked on Kresyland doors ripping people from their sleep
And yelled "you have an hour to pack, don't waste the time to weep!"
Old people and children were herded like cattle into the snow
And guns blasted loudly at those who said "I won't go!"
?
Sleds and wagons carried you to the nearest railway stations
Thus beginning for Kresowiacy, heartless and cruel deportations.
Crammed into frozen boxcars with little food and hardly room to lay
They prayed "Swiety Boze i Matko Boska, please show us the way!"
?
After shuffling you into prison, black raven trucks and a windowless train
They said " Comrades don't cry, save your tears for future pain!"
We will send you Polscy Chlopcy to Archangel and Siberia
If hunger doesn't kill you, therell be scurvy, typhoid and diptheria
?

Oh God they were right when they said
that God created heaven
and the devil created Archangel.
?
Temperatures so cold, you couldn't bear your skin,
And if you dared spit, it froze in the wind.
Newspapers and rags gently wrapped around your feet
But be damned if you'd let your spirit be beat.
?
With backbreaking labour you crushed rocks for their roads
Swinging axes and shovels load after load.
For a grueling day's work they fed you 700 grams of bread
Anything less and you'da soon been dead.
?
At night, with barely enough clothing to warm your bones
You fell fast asleep only to dream of more stones.
And who'da thought in this land of Godforsaken ice
Millions of bedbugs? and those bastardly lice.
?
On barges and boats they shuffled you around
Then rumours of freedom started to abound.
Dirty ol' Stalin had found himself in a fix,
As his good buddy Hitler pulled out a few more tricks.
?
Stalin said "Polscy Chlopcy, try to understand,
This wasn't about you, I just wanted your land.
We'll toast to freedom, and with a new Polish Army we'll work side by side.
Forget about all those men who died!"
?

So with release cards and empty stomachs he set you free
You headed south where the army was supposed to be.
Sikorski and Anders waited for the Polish Army to regroup
As thousands of you half starved and sick arrived for bread and soup.
?
Were your tears for all the women and children you passed on the road
Each one beyond their years, showing scars of their merciless load?
Did you cry for the corpses they callously threw into the wind?
Or ask if this was punishment for man who had sinned?
?
The Brits gave you uniforms and a white Polish eagle to wear on your shoulder
General Anders restored your faith and put things in order.
Stalin held back your bread and insisted that Polscy Chlopcy be sent to the front.
Anders refused because he knew on Stalin he could no longer count.
?
Anders moved his army to Persia in order for Polscy Chlopcy to survive.
The Caspian Sea carried you to Pahlevi, some barely alive.
With wounded souls and bodies frail
Thousands were left behind and missed the last sail.
?
Were you thinking of this when you choked back the tears?
Knowing how much they continued to suffer for many more years.
You became a proud soldier in Polish 2nd Corps
And fought in Monte Cassino with much determined force.
?
Pulled from rags in Russia, Polscy Chlopcy passed the test
They became a great army and certainly one of the best.
Polish blood soaked the soil from your countrymen that laid dead
Amongst the shattered poppies that were already red.
?

Polscy Chlopcy stood proud and still
As they placed their country's flag upon the captured hill.
The white eagle soared with victorious delight
For all the exiled soldiers who had won their fight.
?
The world celebrated with victory parades and promised fences to mend
But Polscy Chlopcy? were not invited to attend.
Great America and England let Stalin take your land
So what exactly you had fought for, was hard to understand.
?
To appease the Communists you were again deported and pushed aside
With spirits crushed and broken hearts, valiant soldiers cried.
Instead of paying you tribute they made you search for home in a new place
While they demobilized your army just to save face.
?
Did you weep for your family for whom you would never again see?
Or the loss of their freedoms, while you were in a new land and free?
Were your tears for Polscy Chlopcy as they were being called D.P.'s
Or for the suggestions that you change your Polish name and drop the "ski"?
?
You remained proud to your heritage and kept your name.
This was all you had left and it bore you no shame.
On Remembrance Day, you stood alone as you remembered those who died
Because there were no Polscy Chlopcy to share your memories, at your side.
?
There was no one here that had shared your footsteps from the past.
And many of the young never cared to ask.
They had never been to war, and they didn't understand
What it really meant to lose one's land.
?

Today I stand alone, holding your polished medals at your grave,
And I thank you with all my heart for being so brave.
I thank you for the Polish heritage that you passed on to me
And for raising me in a country, where I am blessed to be free.
?
For Polscy Chlopcy, I will scatter red poppies in the wind, just for you
And I will do my best to my heritage be true.
And when the trumpets roar, I too, will salute the skies
For now I finally understand the tears in your eyes.
?
?
?
Written in memory of my father
Kazimierz Kaczanowski


Do you Yahoo!?


Memories of WWII!

Casimir Majewski
 

Hello All:
Last week I was in St. Petersburg, Florida. I happen to be invited to be on panel discussion on the occasion of Veteran's Day, at Stetson University Law School. This discussion was sponsored by the Dept. of Graduate & International Studies at this University. Four people were on the panel, all survivors of WWII in one way or another. There was a Hungarian, now a Judge in the US; an American pilot who flew a?U.S. B-24 bombing mission over Europe;?a German Luftwaffe pilot now living in Florida and myself?a Pole survivor of Kresy-Siberia. We four,? told our story. I related my experiences and was very well received an appreciated by the Law students. In fact I am invited to repeat my story to the Law faculty in February. I am always proud to speak about my past and? about the past of the thousands of other people like myself that have endured this odyssey.We must not forget and?generations to come must be told.
Cas, Milford, CT USA


Do you Yahoo!?


Re: Jews in Anders Army & Polish Holocaust website

 

Sheila -
I was not aware that when a Jew became a Communist, they could somehow magically stop being a Jew.?? According to you, a real Jew would never go Red.? According to you, only "assimilated Jews" did this--never a true Jew, alluding that assimilated Jews should be excused from the sin of becoming Communists since they were assimilated?? Very interesting concept, but it is true that many Jews from all walks of life did in fact become Communists, did in fact "push" the deportees on the trains, were responsible for the roundups and fingerpointing causing deportation, were members of the NKVD, did brutally torture, and more.? Some of these same Jews were later:? deported themselves after being duped by the Soviets into doing their dirty work, killed by the Soviets in the fifties (some after attaining high rank in the Communist party), or murdered by the Nazis.? After the Poles were gotten rid of, these Communist Jews were often given Polish homes in which they and their families lived!? Some of these very same Communist Jews managed to escape both the Soviets and Nazis and later fled Poland and the USSR, joining the Anders army and their fellow countrymen who they had previously turned on, and then promptly deserted this Army.? To these I say, "to each his own," but please do not write such horrific, inflammatory anti-Polish statements.? I found your post to this list highly offensive.

You wrote that the author of the memoir passed the fitness tests.? I am quite certain that if he had in fact passed the fitness tests, he would have been accepted into the Polish Army Under British Command.? My own grandfather was initially accepted into the Anders Army, but was prevented from leaving the Middle East to participate in the fighting in Europe.? All people, after their incarceration, were in very poor physical condition.? The vast majority were at death's door; there were many that did not make it into the Army, but you will not hear them falsely justifying their nonacceptance by cries of anti-Semitism.?

It is highly ironic that at this very time of induction into the Army, people died by the hundreds of thousands while waiting at the induction points.? Many died immediately after their Army induction.? Many also died upon stepping onto free Persian soil.? Not only did physical fitness tests have to be passed, but also health examinations.? Many were turned away of all ethnicities!? It is a wonder that any were in fact accepted into this Army!? The entire Army required months of rehabilitation before joining the fight due to starvation and disease.

You did not give the url for the site you referred to in your post, but if it is "Poland's Holocaust," , our late group member Chris Gladun's website, this site really opened my eyes, and this was also my family's war history.? As you can see from the pictures at this excellent site, the Jewish people were not the only living skeletons during the war!? Chris's site is a lasting legacy and testament to what occurred.?

Please realize that there are good and bad people of all ethnicities and religions, including the Jewish.? It has always seemed very odd to me that while our grandparents' generation lived, one never read such statements from either Jew or Pole.? Now that those who were true adults during the war have died and can no longer speak for themselves, there are some who are trying their absolute hardest to rewrite the truthful history of that most awful time in which ALL Polish citizens suffered greatly.? Now usually when the truth is bravely written, cries of
"anti-Semitism" are inevitably heard.

Eve Jesionka Jankowicz

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
There has been a lot of interest in the subject of Jews in Anders Army and I
would like to add "my bit" for the interest and information of the group.
There is a wonderful book written by Chaim Shapiro called "Go My Son"
published a few years ago by Feldheim Publishers, N.Y. USA in which he
writes about his struggle to be accepted into the Anders Army and what he
came up against as a Jew! After travelling halfway across Russia and
passing all the fitness tests, he and many others was given a document
saying that he was not accepted.
Read it for yourself and you will see what happened and what the attitude
towards Jews really was!
Re: Polish Holocaust website: -
I came across this by first finding Stalin's Ethnic Cleansing on Google and
then going into "links" and clicking on Poland's Holocaust.
After scrolling down "excerpts & Selections" to Page 2, I came across a lot
of anti-semitic statements which are totally untrue and unproven. There
were no separate Jewish brigades in the Red Army who would go around
murdering Poles! Of course, there were many communists who were formally
of Jewish origin but they had long given up being Jews and were totally
assimilated! At one time Stalin used Jews to inform on Jews - but there
was no question of murder and torture!
At the same time look at what has happened in Poland today, after the
holocaust! All Jewish property belonging to those murdered and to the
present day survivors is being used today by Poles! Survivors relate how
some went back to their homes after they had lost their whole families and
were murdered there by Poles who were afraid they would have to give up
someone else's property! We can go on and on about this subject - and the
Polish Government today is doing nothing about Jewish Property! Sorry to
be such a grouse - but these are the facts. My family, too, own property in
Poland - which we have no access to!
Best wishes
Sheila





FW: Straws in the Wind

Eugeniusz Krajewski
 

Dear Steve,

I enclose a copy of my e-mail dated 07/11/03.
I would be grateful if you could arrange for the data concerning my book
Straws in the Wind to be updated as outlined below.
For those who also wish to visit the book website www.strawsinthewind.com
<> please note that this has also been
recently updated.

Kind regards,

Eugene Krajewski

-----Original Message-----
From: Eugeniusz Krajewski [mailto:e@...]
<mailto:[mailto:e@...]>
Sent: Friday, November 07, 2003 8:02 PM
To: Kresy-Siberia Group
Subject: Straws in the Wind
Importance: High


To : Steve Wisniowski


Dear Steve,

You, as well as other members of the group, may be interested to know that
the Second Edition of Straws in the Wind is finally issued and is out on
sale.
There are various improvements in presentation including; a more legible set
of maps, some photographs etc.

Please therefore delete the current entry in The Forgotten Odyssey and
replace it with the following:

Straws in the Wind
The betrayal of Poland and one family's incredible journey

Krajewski Eugene, London

2nd Edition November 2003
ISBN 1-904623-01-8
Website: www.strawsinthewind.com <>
Read an article about the book here
Availability: www.thebookplace <>
www.amazon.co.uk <>
www.amazon.com <>
www.amazon.ca <>
www.barnesnoble.com <>


I invite those who patiently waited for the book to be re-issued, as well as
those who may not have been aware of its existence, to make use of one of
the many Internet outlets in obtaining copies of my book. Should anyone
require an autographed copy , please contact me direct and I will be pleased
to provide it from my own stock.


Kind regards,

Eugene Krajewski


Re: Welcome Joasia Kubicka

 

¿ªÔÆÌåÓý

Hi Stephen
Just wondered if you had heard from the MOD ?? Still nothing from them after nearly 6 weeks !!
Joasia
?

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Thursday, October 23, 2003 11:17 AM
Subject: Re: [Kresy-Siberia] Welcome Joasia Kubicka

Hi Joasia,
I am Stephen Wierzbicki and am also requesting
information from MoD UK. I seem to be a little further
ahead in the process than you at the moment so I
thought it might be helpful if I let you know what
documents you will need to supply to MoD before they
will release any records of service.

I found that replies take about 10 days in UK.
You will have to prove that you are next of Kin (NOK).
To do that you need to do two things (presuming the
person you want details of is deceased):

1. If you are the widow of or the widow is alive you
will require a copy of the service members death
certificate and a copy of the widows marriage
certificate. The widow will also have to complete and
sign MoD Form 1000 (supplied by MoD) to release
service records to the widow without contravening the
UK data protection act. If you want the details sent
to you the widow will have to supply a letter giving
permission.

2. If you believe that you are NOK then you will need
to supply a copy of the deceased service persons death
certificate and a copy of your own birth certificate
stating the relationship. Again if you are not the
legal NOK then you will need to have the birth
certificate of the NOK and a letter agreeing top let
you have the service records. The relavant person will
also have to complete and sign MoD form 1000 to
confirm Kinship.

Hope this is of help and allows you to prepare
documents before the MoD reply with the MoD Form 1000
and make for a quick turn around.

Good luck
Regards
Stephen Wierzbicki

PS Does anyone know how the process works with the
Sikorski Institute? I am still waiting for a reply
from them after three weeks.

=====
Stephen Wierzbicki


________________________________________________________________________
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KRESY-SIBERIA GROUP = RESEARCH REMEMBRANCE RECOGNITION
"Dedicated to researching, remembering and recognising the Polish citizens
deported, enslaved and killed by the Soviet Union during World War Two."
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Jews in Anders Army & Polish Holocaust website

Sheila GROSSNASS
 

Dear Kresy-Siberia Group
There has been a lot of interest in the subject of Jews in Anders Army and I
would like to add "my bit" for the interest and information of the group.
There is a wonderful book written by Chaim Shapiro called "Go My Son"
published a few years ago by Feldheim Publishers, N.Y. USA in which he
writes about his struggle to be accepted into the Anders Army and what he
came up against as a Jew! After travelling halfway across Russia and
passing all the fitness tests, he and many others was given a document
saying that he was not accepted.
Read it for yourself and you will see what happened and what the attitude
towards Jews really was!
Re: Polish Holocaust website: -
I came across this by first finding Stalin's Ethnic Cleansing on Google and
then going into "links" and clicking on Poland's Holocaust.
After scrolling down "excerpts & Selections" to Page 2, I came across a lot
of anti-semitic statements which are totally untrue and unproven. There
were no separate Jewish brigades in the Red Army who would go around
murdering Poles! Of course, there were many communists who were formally
of Jewish origin but they had long given up being Jews and were totally
assimilated! At one time Stalin used Jews to inform on Jews - but there
was no question of murder and torture!
At the same time look at what has happened in Poland today, after the
holocaust! All Jewish property belonging to those murdered and to the
present day survivors is being used today by Poles! Survivors relate how
some went back to their homes after they had lost their whole families and
were murdered there by Poles who were afraid they would have to give up
someone else's property! We can go on and on about this subject - and the
Polish Government today is doing nothing about Jewish Property! Sorry to
be such a grouse - but these are the facts. My family, too, own property in
Poland - which we have no access to!
Best wishes
Sheila


unsubscribe

 

Please unsubscribe me till December 1st.
Barbara


Re: Public Reading of Polskie Chlopcy

 

¿ªÔÆÌåÓý

Hi Stefan
I would like to read this poem but the attachment is not stored so it can't be opened. When I tried to go to the site you stated, I? was asked for an ID no. and password etc which I do not have. Perhaps you could send the poem in the main body of the email please?
Many thanks Joasia

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, November 17, 2003 8:53 AM
Subject: Re: [Kresy-Siberia] Public Reading of Polskie Chlopcy


This poem is in our website files archive at

See also attached.

Stefan Wisniowski

From: "Ken Fedzin" <ken.fedzin@...>
Could you post a copy of the poem to the Group?


This poem is in our website files archive at
See also attached.

Stefan Wisniowski

From: "Ken Fedzin"
Could you post a copy of the poem to the Group?