Moderated Hello. kd860. Lots of questions
|
Hello Hamka
Thank you, David, for sharing your opinion. It's better as I, as the designer, can do it.
By the way, we also used the Yamaha 9.9 on our Pelican, which is, as you will know, a 10 m catamaran.?
The same engine on the KD 860 gives you between 7 and 8 knots. speed.? It would be stupid to build the boat in a foam carbon sandwich. By the way, I would never re-design the boat. The result would be not a better boat but a boat that costs 5 times as much as the original design. And as David mentioned, the skill to build in carbon fiber is on a different level. Hydraulic steering for this boat is like a bad joke. I already find wheel steering unnecessary. Domenico in Italy changed consequently back to tiller steering.? You can order the plans directly from me. If you want to order, email me, and I will instruct you on how to do so. Cheers
Bernd
|
|
Hi,
?
I have been living is Singapore for 26 years and moved to Thailand last June.?I wouldn't want to build a boat in Singapore. This would be so expensive. You are going to pay a huge price for space, manpower and everything you are going to buy there. You should look into JB, Malaysia as your best option if you work in Singapore and want to be able to get into Singapore quickly.
?
What you want to build is really over the top. I was also considering a few "fancy" options during the design phase but I was convinced by Bernd that Keep It Simple S... KISS principle is best. I sailed on a couple of Corsair tri that are bigger than the KD860 and a tiller is really all you need and want as you can really feel the boat.
?
For the location of the mast it is not in the middle of the berth. Look carefully at the drawing again.
?
A few month ago I saw one KD860 at Jomtien Ocean Marina in Thailand for sell that has composite hull, hydraulic steering and a lot fancy stuff. Really, it looked so complicated and that was bumping its selling price significantly for what it was. Now I am really considering to build her as bare as possible, only planning for short island hops on a rather large platform that will be comfortable to sail for a few days at a time.
?
Best Regards,
?
Alain
?
?
?
? |
|
To all KD 860 enthusiasts
Firstly, I am back to a normal working load.? Yes , I am an absolute KISS advocate. Everything more is a waste of money and a source of failure. ? I know it is easy to fall into this trap when you look at flashy boating magazines or Internet presentations. The point is that all boating publications depend on their advertisers. So they are not really critical also when a boat is not good. Many times the persons who conduct the tests do their best, but in the end, they can perhaps write, make passable videos, etc, but have no basic knowledge. The top point is now these so-called Eco-friendly boats, with deep freezers, aircos, electric drives, and so on. I could go on. Here is a photo. One of the latest designs.? The hulls are covered with vertical solar panels. I have no clue how this should work, and it is also understandable for non-technical people. How should this work in a marina with on each side another boat? For anchor. In the morning, sun is coming up you have on one side perhaps (if the hull is to the south) 300 W with 16m2* of solar collector. It gets extreme with electronic instruments. Small detail. Wind speed and wind direction instruments costing from $ 400 to infinitive. You can get these with no moving parts (ultrasound) in the mast top and no cable to the reader for $ 170,-. ** A waste of resources and money. This is are only two examples So stay a bit logical when you see all these new flashy boats. Look what you really need. Sailing is fun, depending on what you make of it. **Final a remark from my late friend Tristan Jones (the Incredible voyage, Ice). For me the last real sailor.? "When you do not know from where the wind is blowing, stay home and play ping bong ball" ;-)) Cheers Bernd ? * I calculated this for the boat in the picture, a 60 ft (ca. 18 m) boat ?
?
? |
|
Hi Bernd and All,
?
Newbie here!? I just purchased the study plan for the KD860, and got a couple of questions that may or may not be viable.? I was thinking of adding a kite engine () which weighs about 40kg as a complement to the propulsion or replace the main sail propulsion.? For the latter if the main sails are replace, convert the outboard to electric and add a layer or solar panels to charge upgraded battery bank.
?
Any thoughts on this?
?
Cheers,
Conrad
?
NB.? By the way, Bernd noted that the payment for Group.io maintenance is coming up.? There are 800 plus members in this group which means $0.04 per member per month........$32 per month to maintain this group. So, as the newbie, I would like to contribute $5 to keep this group.? Please support Bernd -> Need your Paypal email.?? |
|
Hi Conrad
?
I watched the ocean kite engine. Interesting. I like kites and have one for fun playing on the beach. People do it year-round because we have a lot of wind here.?
To use kites to power boats is nothing new. I followed the people in San Francisco. The ocean kite energy is nice to watch. It's an interesting solution against line
twists. In the end, again, it is a complicated system for a simple solution that we have around, which needs no control wheels or electronics. How to adapt to bad weather?
Use a mast with a sail, which is reliable, simple, and proven.?
If you like to experiment, okay, try it.?
?
You can use PayPal for your contribution. Recipient email address bernd@...
?
Cheers
?
Bernd |
|
Hi Alain,
?
Congrats on your move to Thailand........;land of smiles' and retired expats!!!? Lol lol.? I am located in Singapore like Hamka, and quite interested in building a barebones KD860 and power it using a kite engine and solar.
?
Have you started on your boat build?? I think there are a few people interested, and I intend to start my KD860 project in mid 2025.? Possibly pool knowledge and resources, and maybe start a club.......ha ha ha ha?
?
Conrad |
|
Hi Hamka,
?
Fellow Singaporean here!!? Use to own a mono 30 ft hull yacht in New Zealand. Gave it away during covid because it was stuck in boatyard for 3 plus years. I am a newbie to catamarans, so no experience here. Interested also in building a KD860.? Trying to see if can get like minded people here in the same location to discuss their plans for KD860 build.? Maybe build in Thailand or Malaysia??? Share knowledge and resources??? I contacted CKD boats in South Africa which use to sell KD860 kits but they said they did not make the KD860 kit anymore, and suggested and quoted an alternative the Proteus 106 kit at Rand 340 000 (SGD 50k).? A bit pricey for materials if you ask me!! However, the designer of Proteus not open to customization........when I ask whether it could use a kite engine, so quite disappointed.? Bernd is quite a nice guy by his responses, so I look forward to starting my project in 2025,
?
Cheers,
Conrad
?
?
?
? |
|
You are most welcome Conrad!
?
Not quite retired yet. I am taking care of the business development in Thailand for my company headquartered in Singapore.?
?
The boat has not been started yet. I have been discussing last year with the boat yard that is making Hans Christiansen and Schionning boats near Ocean Marina in Jomtien, south of Pattaya. They were keen on building plywood boats but had an issue to source the raw material. The common plywood is meranti but not suitable for the KD860. So now, my main concern is how to get this plywood to Thailand on a cost effective basis. If there are 4 boats to be build that could lower the cost significantly.
?
I had also discussion with Seascape in Phuket before I was looking at the KD line. They used to build very nice Wharram but the owner, Gunther was selling his boats for his rental business and was apparently closing his shop there going back to Europe.
?
The best is probably that we get a group on Line or Whatsapp to start discussions about how we could bring all this together.
?
Alain
?
? |
|
Hi Alain.
If LR Approvals is the standard for plywood, and if you trust the products made in a certain oriental country, then I think it is not difficult to find 8mm okoume plywood, and the price is not expensive. As for shipping, it is about 200 USD per cubic meter to Thailand.
?
Compared with plywood, our biggest problem may be the mast.
?
LEE
?
|
|
Hi Alain
?
Interesting how many persons are interested in building a KD 860 in Asia. This is a generalization of course.
I see also, to my surprise, that it is difficult to buy waterproof plywood.?
But with a bit of research it is not difficult to find suppliers.
Here an example a company who sells plywood from Vietnam. But has also addresses from other countries
?
Bernd
? |
|
Hi Bernd,
?
I am really happy to be in touch with other people who are interested in building KD860 in the region. We should be able to pull recourses together to build our boats more efficiently. It is also a good motivation when several people are working together with the same goal. At the end we could even plan a little regatta!
?
For the plywood and specific materials, finding a local source is always better. The three main pain points with importation is first the logistics involved that can be complicated and costly, second the regulations on importation with protectionism again foreign products with heavy tax or even ban and third, the requirement for minimum order quantity, very often requiring to buy a full container of materials at minimum. This is why it is always preferable to work with whatever is available in the country. We will see how it goes. If there are other alternative material we will check with you. You already told me that meranti is out which is what is common here so need to find something else.
?
I checked the Vietnam company and their marine plywood is made from eucalyptus. This is a mill producing from local wood source. okume is only used as outer skin on their low grade ply. Internal is a mix of wood. Would eucalyptus be a substitute for okume??
?
?
?
? |
|
Hopefully, plywood could be found eventually. I believe that today manufacturer of plywood are located in exotic countries where they get the raw material. That should not be a issue.
?
I have a friend here who is a professor at a university and an expert in composite so I should have access to quite a few manufacturer that can produce carbon masts at a good price. There should also be quite a few sources for aluminum poles if this is what you intend to use.
?
? |
|
Conrad, it is not necessary to buy a kit You can draw the parts on a white pva painted chip board which is cheap then place your plywood on top and reproduce the part on the ply and then cut it with a router or jigsaw. This is cheap and fast. I drew my whole boat's parts on one board. If you work accurately your boat will be perfect. I would suggest that you get a decent drawing program that can read the DXF files from Berndt. You can also nest the parts to get the most economical use of your plywood. Once you have all the parts in the computer you can make small adjustments to customize to your requirements. discuss it with Berndt as you go. Regards Philip Malan
On Thursday, 24 October 2024 at 14:23:10 SAST, Bernd Kohler <ikarus342000@...> wrote:
Hi Alain
?
Interesting how many persons are interested in building a KD 860 in Asia. This is a generalization of course.
I see also, to my surprise, that it is difficult to buy waterproof plywood.?
But with a bit of research it is not difficult to find suppliers.
Here an example a company who sells plywood from Vietnam. But has also addresses from other countries
?
Bernd
?
|
|
Alain,? Building a mast from carbon fibre is relatively easy and a lot cheaper than buying a aluminium mast. The advantage above an aluminium mast is that it is stonger and stiffer and very easy to repair. I can send you the method I used to build a 11.6 meter mast for my Didi 26. Cheers Philip Malan
On Sunday, 27 October 2024 at 17:51:31 SAST, Philip Malan via groups.io <malan.philip@...> wrote:
Conrad, it is not necessary to buy a kit You can draw the parts on a white pva painted chip board which is cheap then place your plywood on top and reproduce the part on the ply and then cut it with a router or jigsaw. This is cheap and fast. I drew my whole boat's parts on one board. If you work accurately your boat will be perfect. I would suggest that you get a decent drawing program that can read the DXF files from Berndt. You can also nest the parts to get the most economical use of your plywood. Once you have all the parts in the computer you can make small adjustments to customize to your requirements. discuss it with Berndt as you go. Regards Philip Malan
On Thursday, 24 October 2024 at 14:23:10 SAST, Bernd Kohler <ikarus342000@...> wrote:
Hi Alain
?
Interesting how many persons are interested in building a KD 860 in Asia. This is a generalization of course.
I see also, to my surprise, that it is difficult to buy waterproof plywood.?
But with a bit of research it is not difficult to find suppliers.
Here an example a company who sells plywood from Vietnam. But has also addresses from other countries
?
Bernd
?
|
Bernd Kohler
Alain Dupuis
Philip Malan