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KLM Keels - ECO 6
Good afternoon, all,
This is my first post to this illustrious group of builders. What a great resource for those of us who build boats. I recently progressed from study plans and now have the building plans to build an ECO 6. I plan to start building in 2022 after I secure a heated workshop. The recent discussion of anti-vortex fins has been very informative and especially so because it raised the question of the optional KLM keels on the ECO 6. David Halliday has chosen to build his ECO using KLM keels, and I am leaning towards using them for my build. My question to this group: what are the differences in performance between boats designed by Bernd using a conventional keel versus ones using the KLM keels? Let me add this. I am in Canada. Any other K-Design builders in the group nearby? |
Hi Rod, I am an Eco 5.5 power cat builder and am in Napanee Ontario. Phil
On Thursday, November 25, 2021, 07:25:42 p.m. EST, Rod McLaren <nkosuohene@...> wrote:
Good afternoon, all, This is my first post to this illustrious group of builders. What a great resource for those of us who build boats. I recently progressed from study plans and now have the building plans to build an ECO 6. I plan to start building in 2022 after I secure a heated workshop. The recent discussion of anti-vortex fins has been very informative and especially so because it raised the question of the optional KLM keels on the ECO 6. David Halliday has chosen to build his ECO using KLM keels, and I am leaning towards using them for my build. My question to this group: what are the differences in performance between boats designed by Bernd using a conventional keel versus ones using the KLM keels? Let me add this. I am in Canada. Any other K-Design builders in the group nearby? |
¿ªÔÆÌåÓýBeing the person who put the Kim keels on his Eco 6 let me contribute some thoughts. When I ordered the plans for the Eco 6 and began building I accepted that the design called for the daggerboard in one hull, and I also knew this would provide the best windward performance. But while I was building the hulls and joining them together I didn¡¯t think too much about the daggerboard, but I did think a little about keel options. At the same time I was building my boat an Eco 6 was being built in Australia which had drop down keels,(centerboards?) on the inside of the hulls, but as I looked at photos of that build I thought that it seemed a complex structure and would add a lot of weight. I did think about the option of low aspect keels under the hulls, such as on the Wharram Tiki catamarans. ? As I began assembling the hulls to the bridgedeck and forming the cabin structure I realised more and more that the daggerboard case as designed was going to really impact on the interior and make access to the port hull difficult, and I was starting to feel a bit lazy about building the daggerboard and case. About this time Rien in Australia decided that his exterior drop down keels were not working, more because of the weight issue combined with what was already a heavy build, and he needed another option, and that is when Bernd came up with the kim keel design as a solution for Rien and also gave me the drawings. I decided to at least give the kim keels a try and see how they worked because they would be a lot more simple to construct than any of the other options. If they did not work out then I could always retrofit a daggerboard. ? Construction and fitting of the kim keels was very quick and simple and used up about $20 worth of timber which I purchased specifically for that job, and of course a little bit of epoxy product and glass cloth which I already had in abundance. ?? ? So as to the sailing performance. As already stated in other posts I am very happy with the way my little catamaran goes to windward. We have a long narrow harbour with up to a one knot tidal flow, and sometimes more at the entrance. I have now many times tacked my way either up or down the harbour against the tidal flow and to me in that situation the boat seems to go to windward just fine. Keeping in mind that it is a cruising yacht, but for cruising needs there is nothing wrong with the windward performance of the kim keels. I do also have good sails and pay attention to sail trim so this will also contribute to the windward performance of the boat. In truth I think there are three factors which contribute to the boats leeway resistance; firstly the deep almost vertical forefoot which extends aft from the bow for quite a distance, the kim keels, and lastly the deep high aspect rudder foils. ? So in summary, the kim keels were quick and easy to construct and fit to the hulls, they add almost no weight to the structure, they do not intrude into the vessels interior, they do not protrude below the hull so hull draft is only 200mm. For a coastal cruising catamaran which needs to be able to sail to windward at times the windward performance of my Eco 6 is perfectly acceptable and certainly equals the windward performance of other cruising yachts I have owned, so happily I see no need to retrofit a daggerboard. ? Cheers, ? David ? ? ? From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of Rod McLaren
Sent: Friday, November 26, 2021 10:28 AM To: [email protected] Subject: [K-Designs-Multihull-Sailboats] KLM Keels - ECO 6 ? Good afternoon, all, |
Hi Rod
Nice to have you on board. I start first with a correction, sorry. I do not design catamarans with keels. Why spoil one of the best parts of sailing a multihull by adding unnecessary keels i.e. draft. You know from your boat how nice it is to reach places no boat with a keel can go. I presume you mean the daggerboard. Klear is that with a daggerboard you get the optimal performance. Read the message from Grame. He describes his thinking and why he uses kim keels. For what stands KLM by the way? Grame is a sailor with a lot of experience in different boats. I agree in full that good sails and the way to handle them are playing an important role to sail well to windward and being fast for the size of the boat. If you want to use the kim keels, drop me an email at bernd@ika... and so one and I send you the drawing of the keel and where to place them. Bernd? |
Good morning, all. My inaugural post to this forum has taught me the importance of proofreading before hitting the "Send" button.?
Bernd, my apologies. I have been following you and admiring your designs for long enough to know you do not design your boats with keels. I intended to say "daggerboards" when referring to your designs and I blame my absentmindedness for instead using the word "keels". As for KLM keels, I fault my 20/20 eyesight for mistaking in "i" for a "l" and I blame spellcheck for then capitalizing it to the benefit of a certain airline. As soon as I finish this post I will write you with the request for the drawings you generously have offered. I am curious - may I ask, to what does kim refer? I am unfamiliar with the word. Now to David. Thank you for your excellent explanation. I apologize once again for my absentmindedness. I have been studying your wonderful photos and your comments and messages long enough to know your last name is Thatcher, not Halliday. Had I properly done the proofread I would have made the necessary correction. In my defence, I do have a friend with the last name Halliday... But back to your comments, it is reassuring to read you experience in a "long narrow harbour". Most of my sailing these days is on a reservoir lake which is long and relatively narrow and which, depending on wind conditions, often requires a lot of tacking and hence my concern about the performance of kim keels. Your comments assure me they work and so I will also use them in my build. Mention was made of Rien, who was building an ECO 6. I have read through most of the comments on this forum and saw him commenting frequently and then when he seemed near to completion, he vanished. In his posts he referred to a blog which no longer is available. Does anyone know what happened to him and his boat? Finally, to Phil. Good to meet you. We are a few miles apart - I am in Saskatoon and sail on Lake Diefenbaker. How far along are you on your build? Any photos?? |
Hi Rod, I am only three days drive from you. Here is a link to my pictures of my 5.5 Power Cat. I changed the design from the deck up to accommodate my solar panels as mine is 100% solar electric.? On my You Tube channel I have a lot of minutes showing what stage I am in as a lot is just made up as I went. Note, keep things light as I got carried away with adding features. Here is a link to the first in my build series. Regards Phil |