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Does anybody have suggestions on what scales i can solo on?
Appreciate your inputs in advance
Thanks Arv
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Arv:
Try this:? Measure 1=BbMajor, M2=Eb Mixolydian, M3=C dim, M4=G Mixolydian, M 5&6=C Mixolydian, M 7&8= C Dorian, M9= C Mixolydian, M10= C Dorian, M11=C dim, M12= G Mixolydian, M12= C Mixolydian, M14= C Dorian, M15&16= Bb Major.
Bridge:? M17= C dorian, M18= G Dorian, M19= C Dorian, M20= G dorian, M21= C Dorian, M22= G Dorian, M23= C Mixolydian, M24= F Mixolydian
Measures 25-32 are a repeat of measures 9 - 13.
Hope this helps.? This ain't an easy tune
Larry
On Wed, Apr 4, 2018 at 8:08 AM, Arvind_h@... [jazz_guitar] <jazz_guitar@...> wrote:
?
Does anybody have suggestions on what scales i can solo on?
Appreciate your inputs in advance
Thanks Arv
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Hey Larry, I would fall out with all this to think about. The traditional method of running the changes allows for more stylish results than parsing every chord for righteous scales. Just follow the 3rd's and 7th's and they will take you to solid melodies. Play on.
jim
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Jim: You ain't met my teacher yet. Dave Smith here in Vegas. Great teacher and a great human being. When he plays it, the tune sounds great.?
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-------- Original message -------- From: "Jim MIngs jmings2003@... [jazz_guitar]" Date:04/05/2018 7:53 AM (GMT-08:00) To: jazz_guitar@... Subject: [jazz_guitar] Re: There will never be another you
?
Hey Larry, I would fall out with all this to think about. The traditional method of running the changes allows for more stylish results than parsing every chord for righteous scales. Just follow the 3rd's and 7th's and they will take you to solid melodies. Play on.
jim
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BTW Jim,I agree with you. Dave sometimes makes my head spin with these changes. It is however, a great learning exercise. One thing I loved about Chet Atkins was that you could always hear the melody.?
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-------- Original message -------- From: "Jim MIngs jmings2003@... [jazz_guitar]" Date:04/05/2018 7:53 AM (GMT-08:00) To: jazz_guitar@... Subject: [jazz_guitar] Re: There will never be another you
?
Hey Larry, I would fall out with all this to think about. The traditional method of running the changes allows for more stylish results than parsing every chord for righteous scales. Just follow the 3rd's and 7th's and they will take you to solid melodies. Play on.
jim
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Thanks Larry will give it a shot and revert.
Regards
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I thought I replied to your suggestion Jim but i dont see my reply for some reason. The 3rds and 7ths you refer to are from the key of each chord in the progression is what u meant?
Thanks
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Hi Arv,
In case you don't already know about, Sher Music has an excellent play-along track for "There Will Never Be Another You":
-Bob
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I'm curious what version of the changes you have for There Will Never Be Another You and what key you play the tune in, Larry?? Your suggested scales seem an idiosyncratic choice for the chord changes as they appear in my copy of the Real Book 1 (which is the "C edition" and has the tune in Eb major) - at least according to my amateur knowledge of jazz/ music theory,
William ---In jazz_guitar@..., <llethrift@...> wrote : Arv:
Try this:? Measure 1=BbMajor, M2=Eb Mixolydian, M3=C dim, M4=G Mixolydian, M 5&6=C Mixolydian, M 7&8= C Dorian, M9= C Mixolydian, M10= C Dorian, M11=C dim, M12= G Mixolydian, M12= C Mixolydian, M14= C Dorian, M15&16= Bb Major.
Bridge:? M17= C dorian, M18= G Dorian, M19= C Dorian, M20= G dorian, M21= C Dorian, M22= G Dorian, M23= C Mixolydian, M24= F Mixolydian
Measures 25-32 are a repeat of measures 9 - 13.
Hope this helps.? This ain't an easy tune
Larry
On Wed, Apr 4, 2018 at 8:08 AM, Arvind_h@... [jazz_guitar] <jazz_guitar@...> wrote:
?Does anybody have suggestions on what scales i can solo on?
Appreciate your inputs in advance
Thanks Arv
|
According the Real Book, Version 5, Pocket Changes Volume 1 and my teacher, the tune is in Bb.
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-------- Original message -------- From: "william_v_nicholson@... [jazz_guitar]" Date:04/05/2018 12:01 PM (GMT-08:00) To: jazz_guitar@... Subject: Re: [jazz_guitar] There will never be another you
?
I'm curious what version of the changes you have for There Will Never Be Another You and what key you play the tune in, Larry?? Your suggested scales seem an idiosyncratic choice for the chord changes as they appear in my copy of the Real Book 1 (which is the "C edition" and has the tune in Eb major) - at least according to my amateur knowledge of jazz/ music theory,
William ---In jazz_guitar@..., <llethrift@...> wrote : Arv:
Try this:? Measure 1=BbMajor, M2=Eb Mixolydian, M3=C dim, M4=G Mixolydian, M 5&6=C Mixolydian, M 7&8= C Dorian, M9= C Mixolydian, M10= C Dorian, M11=C dim, M12= G Mixolydian, M12= C Mixolydian, M14= C Dorian, M15&16= Bb Major.
Bridge:? M17= C dorian, M18= G Dorian, M19= C Dorian, M20= G dorian, M21= C Dorian, M22= G Dorian, M23= C Mixolydian, M24= F Mixolydian
Measures 25-32 are a repeat of measures 9 - 13.
Hope this helps.? This ain't an easy tune
Larry
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Hey, y'all,? ? In regard to 3rd's and 7th's: What happens when a dominant 7th chord resolves to a tonic? G7 --- C? The 7th of G7, F, wants to resolve to the third of C, E and the 3rd, B wants to go to C. What happens often enough when one is playing scales is that the notes may be "correct" but the context off. For example nailing a big C note on the G7. Or playing a long F over the C chord. Hear what i mean? Those are good notes in the key but not so good in context. Of course, we need scales. Or we might drown... ;-) but chord tones keep the boat afloat. What we need to do is Harmonize the various scales and follow where they lead. Jim
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Jim,
That's the whole point of the bebop scales; adding an extra note so you land on the chord tones at the right time.
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This tune is normally played in Eb. The scales given and the form of the tune are wrong. And how can 8 bars be a repeat of 5 bars?
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Ralph Patt used to hang out here sometimes. His Vanilla Changes are loved by some and leave others indifferent.? I like the concept of reducing music to its skeletal outline in time. We have to memorize lots of music. No Real Books on the stand if you want to be taken seriously.....I believe if i had to think of a new scale for every chord of a song I would know fewer tunes. That feels like energy wasted to me. Just my take on things. jim
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Folks,
This is a post I sent that got lost. I think it's worth a look, and fwiw: if you insist, a C minor scale will work for this whole song. It's a huge mistake to try to reduce a song to chord/scale relationships; music doesn't work that way, as I hear it. Cheers. Here goes:
OK, against my better judgment:
"This ain't an easy tune" if you try to think/play it the way you suggested below, that's fo' sho'. Try this instead:
1. Set up a backing track (BIAB, whatever works, at a comfortable tempo).
2. Play eighth-note ( 1& 2& 3& 4&) Gs (either 1st string 3rd fret or 2nd string 8th fret) over the whole form of the song. There, you've "soloed" over this song, and never once had to think about scales/modes/etc. For the most part the note "G" works for every set of changes in this tune (for reasons I won't get into here); some sound hipper than others, but it's all good. Not a Mixolydian in sight, lol.
Remember, the chord changes serve the melody, and not the other way around; most people are too tied up in knots to keep that in mind. (The note "C" also works quite well with this approach; try it. Eb is also a possibility.) As a logical outgrowth of this approach try adding notes as you hear them as you practice soloing and pretty soon you'll be sounding way more "organic" and "natural" than you would trying the other stuff.
Listen to how the same note sounds over different chords & you'll start to widen and increase your sonic vocabulary. That's historically how jazz was developed; ("jazz education" has only been around since the '60s, fyi) and is still the best way (in my opinion) to develop and approach improv. Improvisation is a "language" and oftentimes what's in the "book" isn't very similar to what's on the "street" or in the "real world".
Now, would you solo this way? Perhaps not, but if you wanted to you could; if you changed up your rhythmic choices a bit and laid out in some spots, nobody'd kick you off the stand. (BTW, not taking the rhythmic aspect(s) of jazz improvisation into account is one of the biggest weaknesses of the chord/mode/scale approach.)
And fwiw, there's no "bridge" in this song; its an "A" "A1" form with each being 16 bars long; the last 4 bars of the A1 section are different (in order to end the song).
Not trying to be a smart-ass or anything, just saying this stuff isn't "rocket science" and to really learn it's a way better use of one's time to listen and transcribe than it is to "dissect". YMMV and that's ok too but I'm a big believer in not making things harder than they are...
Cheers,
JV
Juan Vega
In a message dated 4/4/2018 1:05:47 PM Pacific Standard Time,? jazz_guitar@...?writes:
Arv:
Try this:? Measure 1=BbMajor, M2=Eb Mixolydian, M3=C dim, M4=G Mixolydian, M 5&6=C Mixolydian, M 7&8= C Dorian, M9= C Mixolydian, M10= C Dorian, M11=C dim, M12= G Mixolydian, M12= C Mixolydian, M14= C Dorian, M15&16= Bb Major.
Bridge:? M17= C dorian, M18= G Dorian, M19= C Dorian, M20= G dorian, M21= C Dorian, M22= G Dorian, M23= C Mixolydian, M24= F Mixolydian
Measures 25-32 are a repeat of measures 9 - 13.
Hope this helps.? This ain't an easy tune
Larry
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On 4/14/2018 11:09 PM, 'J. Vega'
JVegaTrio@... [jazz_guitar] wrote:
"This ain't an
easy tune" if you try to think/play it the way you suggested
below, that's fo' sho'. Try this instead: &c.
Your answer is solid, as was Ming's.
We tend to get into discussions about scales and key centers, &c
in depth, and that is, of course, very important to the
understanding of music. But it's rarely what a player is thinking
when he is improvising - it can be too cumbersome. We learn that to
internalize it, and to be able to draw upon it. Usually, he is
thinking about the chords, the melody, and the form, and usually he
is using ideas he's gotten down after a long period of years and
experience to push into new territory (on a good night). He usually
finds remembering the lyrics far more useful than the scales
involved.
One has to study great solos by great soloists. Yes, understanding
the scales and key centers is an invaluable help in that endeavor,
but it does not replace hours spent poring over solos until you can
actually play and HEAR them for what they are.
Improvising is the process of putting it all together, and
on-the-fly. Playing is a hands-on sport. Most students today simply
do not practice, play, jam, and listen enough. They simply don't
live music, but, rather, squeeze it in when they are not too busy
with something else. They are more interested in the 'understanding'
than they are the real work it takes to actually perform. I say
'most' because this was pretty much always the case. Those rare ones
who actually love music in their very core and? 'shed'? to rise to
the challenge are always exactly that - rare.
Just my 2-cents,
Bobby
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Thanks for making the effort to post this, Juan. Great approach. I like the one note and then one scale over the entire tune idea. It's a great way to look at soloing in a different way, starting simple.
Cheers!
Steven
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this is very good: another concept concerning
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I love this method... thanks for this. My rules for improv is that the improv should remind u of the head (at least a little bit) and this method would empahsize that.
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Yes, I thought it was very good. I have been thinking like this for some time, but here is the concept laid out cleanly.
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james mings